teachers have no chance of controling kids, as the amount of rubbish thats aimed at kids, makes kids grow up to fast these days. what a little smack is going to do, is nothing, they need there bad influence taking away from the, but big money is made by aiming all this crap at kids.

You'd be surprised at how effective a well timed smack can be, IMHO. But you do have a point about how pervaisive bad, or unsuitable, influences are in modern society. Being a smartass is considered cool. Acting like a thug is considered to be the only way to get ahead. Etc... We can all come up with example with little effort.

No spanking alone isn't enough, no. It is, however, a tool that should be available for use in certain circumstances. A be all end all? no. Merely a tool.

but what i am getting at is without all the bad things in society being thrust at children, than yes a good smack may help, but if they are listening to rap alday about how to be bad, its not going to help.

years ago, it may of been effective, but today, its a no go as far as i am concerned. i do not know how anyone teachers in todays climate.

Originally posted by andy1033
teachers have no chance of controling kids,

You are very right, only with the support of the parents teachers can do something, but most of the time that support is not there and the parents are not even anywhere around some of these children's lives.

as the amount of rubbish thats aimed at kids, makes kids grow up to fast these days.

You are right again, some children as young as first grade bring to the school all kind of experiences that they either learn from their parents or the programs they see on TV.

Some are very troublesome indeed.

what a little smack is going to do, is nothing, they need there bad influence taking away from the, but big money is made by aiming all this crap at kids.

Actually the parents that actually sign a consent are parents that are involved in their children lives and take responsibility for their actions.

Many of the children that have behavior problems have also dysfunctional families and parents that also have problems.

I have seen in the classroom children of abused families, victims of neglect and children that have been born with drug dependency.

Schools has to deal with all this children. . .

And for those that think that all children in schools comes from happy stable homes . . . I got one for you. . . your littler darlings have to sit around all these trouble children with behavior problems all day long.

Teachers have to spend a lot of time and energy dealing with the this children disrupting the classroom and when you have a class of 20 to 25 children that is a hard task, when you at home only have to deal with your own child after school.

I always say, if you have the time and resources Home school your children

My parents used to spank me when i was younger but i don't think it worked as I was always in trouble in school and at home.

i thought they are trying to outlaw homeschooling, and school is also about socialising, do kids not need those skills to, in todays world.

what you are saying, is you are also profiling, not all kids that come from stable families, are great students, kids rebel against there parents, its far more complex than saying, if kids have stable home lives. often kids with bad parents, see what it is like and do not wnat to turn out like that, and really try to get out of that sort of lifestyle.

Without parental involvement, all the teachers best efforts will be useless in the longrun.

Homeschooling is a great option, but again only with incredible amounts of parental involvement obviously. With all the families where both parents work, home schooling isn't an option.

Charter schools and/or Private Schools. These I believe are the best alternative out there to home schooling. However, these are usually very expensive. Out of reach for most families of moderate to low income. A good way to remedy that situation would be school vouchers.

Originally posted by andy1033

what you are saying, is you are also profiling,

No, no really, see teachers have to be inform of which children in the classroom may have special needs that required extra attention, you know that today schools accept what is now called children with special needs.

Teachers are also informed very confidentially if the child is from a trouble family that has record of sexual abuse, born with drug dependency and in any medications for behavioral problems, in case something happen, teachers have to be able to deal with any type of situations.

Todays classroom are to accept any type of students due to laws.

I have seen children with behavior problems due to mental health like schizophrenia, I help a teacher once to be a witness with a child that was a second grader with schizophrenia, one day the child didn't have her medication and was send to school any way, the child took running and have half the school running after her.

This things happens, because school laws included no discriminations on children's with special needs.

not all kids that come from stable families,

Yes you are right.

are great students, kids rebel against there parents, its far more complex than saying, if kids have stable home lives. often kids with bad parents, see what it is like and do not want to turn out like that, and really try to get out of that sort of lifestyle.

Now I am talking about school grade children from grade 0 to 5 this children's has not control on their lives, because of age.

What you referring is children of junior and high school that already have more maturity to deal with some problems.

I had junior high students that due to laws on discrimination attend school with tracking devices in them because the are guards of the state and on probation.

I have one that was on probation at age 15 for molesting a child under 10.

This are children's teachers have to deal with in a daily bases.

No, is not profiling but teachers have to be aware of the record of some of children with problem to be aware of possibly disruptions.

This take away from the rest of the class.

Be aware that on todays classrooms due to laws is all kind of children from all kind of backgrounds that bylaw have to be accepted in the schools with regular more stable students, is the law.

And the school and the faculty has to be aware of who they are and be on the look out for them.

Is not profiling but for safety.

[edit on 21-1-2007 by marg6043]

seagull, I agree that is involvement.

I am in the south, I was a Spanish teacher for 9 years, here you see that many parents pull the extra money to have their children go to private schools, because some of the reasons I already posted.

You are right no everybody have the resources and time to home school their children.

But the classrooms of today are nothing of what they used to be 30 or 40 years ago.

Classrooms has become a dangerous place in some school in certain areas.

Now a day many parents research the counties and the schools before moving into areas to make sure that their children will be safe.

After my children attending DOD schools . . . we found ourselves in the civilian community and having to look for what schools would be safe for our children.

We did our home work and I decided to join the school system to be ahead of the game.

In case you missed the point of my statement: I do not support allowing teachers to spank kids, I have known some wacko teachers in less than 2 years in one school. They would throttle kids just for being different or not agreeing with them if given half the chance.
What I DO support is allowing parents to discpline their children, and if means having to slap or spank them for what they did so be it, just look at some of the kids I described. What NEEDS to be done is the protection of the teacher from the student, example/case in point is a school in North Carolina I came just - that close to working in:
North Carolina, large town about 20 miles from Windsor where I worked, which was not better but not as bad as this: (I do not remember the towns name)
First day, showed up with a U-Haul at the mall across from the school because of this:
There were at LEAST 40 cops surrounding the school, on the roof, in the parking lot, all wearing bullet proof vests and riot gear, they had gunmen on the roof, on the ground, and everywhere. They were marching the kids out in line to the buses. Well I went into the mall and was looking around and asked some lady who worked in one of the shops what was wrong with the school, was there a riot or something. Her responce: They do this everday, comming and going, they leave those guys there even during the day. Turns out her son was almost stabbed to death in the school, teachers had been sent to the hospital at least every month for stab wounds, non-leathal (as in people got shot but no one died) fights had broken out between gangs, students had stabbed students, tried to shoot students and everything else. I stood and listened to her break down the school for over an hour then decided I was NOT going to even walk in those doors.
This is an example of WHY teachers should be able to fight back if attacked, this school went unreported for some unknown reason to be but I would personally have it known to the state so that people could do something about it, but nothing is being done other than chaining them to the ground and doing patdowns all day long.
Discpline starts at home is what I am saying, and as I said BEFORE:
IT IS THE JOB OF THE PARENT NOT THE TEACHER TO DISCIPLINE THE CHILD!
Some kids need a good slap from the parent, and that should never be viewed as being abusive if the kid deserved it as the one I mentioned did.

Schools may claim it helps socialization, but I have yet to see a grade school where kids were allowed to socialize. Not even during free periods. They are controlled and learn to be controlled. Just sit in a desk all day doing school work that is often beneath their learning abilities or read a book if during free period.

Home schooled children nowadays often are taught in groups with other home schooled children where parents help each other out. The kids are allowed to be kids as well as learn stuff.

I tried spanking my kid before. She just laughed at me and kept doing what she wanted to do. Take away her toys and she's begging for them back, swearing she'll never do it again.

I don't know what parent would let a stranger spank their kids, you don't even know how hard the person would hit them. I know I wouldn't even want to spank a kid if I was a principal, teacher etc... there are far better ways to discipline a child at school.

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
I don't know what parent would let a stranger spank their kids, you don't even know how hard the person would hit them.

Up until the late 60s perhaps even later discipline within public schools was an accepted practice by virtually all parents.

As for not knowing the teachers who's fault is that? Ever heard of PTA meetings? You know that is where parents meet to sit down and discuss problems with the teachers, DUH

I also think many of you think that teachers will actually spank them and perhaps they might get a slap on the hinney, but more then likely it would be just a swat with a fly swatter as it was years ago.





[edit on 1/21/2007 by shots]