Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Announces White House Bid

We need to get rid of the corporations, not cater to them, I say GET RID OF THEM ALL

i suggest educating yourself before posting a bunch of nonsense such as the above, honestly this is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen.

REMOVING all taxes or most of them here in the USA will CREATE problems not solve them

learn to read my links and do the proper research before saying garbage like " we cant remove taxes" blah blah blah, you have no place in this conversation if this is what you are presenting because it has nothing to do with fairtax, jesus christ what in the hell is wrong with you people? I always have problems like this when I run into liberals they start going off not making any damn sense of anything.

AND you try and insult me, calling me 17 years old and living off my parents, YOU are trying to start a fight and being a TROLL!

when i actually said this

I will not be lectured by someone who could possibly be a 17 year old boy living off of his parents

making stuff up, whats next? you're going to shout me down like the usual liberal way and then advocate for my ban? dont insult me by posting uninformed radical opinions and totally ignoring reality. I think if someone worked and payed taxed in this country they would have a better idea of how things work.



[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

Watch your language, it degrades your intelligence and credibility, this is no time for language. Fair tax as I understand is to remove taxes that have caused corporations to leave the USA: BULL! They leave because they have cheaper labor, so you want to make it cheaper to make things hear: BULL! You are catering to their GREED, learn to read what I have said, CATERING TO CORPORATE GREED WILL NOT HELP THE USA! They want MONEY and are willing to do ANYTHING to get it, they also want POWER and are willing to do ANYTHING to get it. Oh what is the point? I have said this three times now and ape never listens.
Ok ape, since you cannot read what I have said and comprehend it, do not bother talking to me, again all you do is insult people because you did not read carefully what was said. Maybe you need to stop and think about fairtax, go re-read it and think again, and again. Think about who you are TRUELY helping, and what you are really saying to coporations. You might create jobs, but at what price? The price I see you putting up is too high a price, it comes at the expense of Americans, that is COMPLETELY unacceptable. Ape, you have blinded yourself with hate and malice towards anything with the name liberal without knowing what a liberal really is, that is a shame. Your hate will only make you ENEMIES ape, not allies, just enemies. Glad to know you are the only one on here and the ONLY one I have ever met with your opinion. Lastly ape, do not talk to me again, all you do is insult me again and again, and make yourself look like a superior intelligance which you are not. Do not talk to me again.
Now we need to get back on subject...

Hillary wants to start a "comission" of sorts for candidancy, Richardson is trying to run outright, and so far from what I heard both parties have to sift around 7-20 people and fast if they expect to put anyone forth. Last I heard one party cannot run two people for president. So SOMEONE is going to get put out, though it does not matter in the long run since they are all the same. Question to be asked now: WHO will they put forth? Then: who will the elite want in power? The elite make the vote no the people, so which big brother face will we have? Mexican, white female, black guy, white guy, old white guy, old super rich white guy, which?

once again do your research, honestly please read my links outsourcing is not just because of 'cheap labor' and fairtax is not 'just removing taxes to bring back corporations', if you had a good understanding of US federal tax policy and what the fair tax actually is maybe you would be a little more open minded.

and who are you to tell me to watch my language when i'm not even getting out of line? dont lecture me as you're not in a position to lecture considering you're not very informed about how this country works. once again read the links before saying ' fairtax removes taxes', honestly thats pretty pathetic.

it does so much on a universal level it's unfathomable, so please get with the program and go inform yourself, every single liberal I run into never wants to accept reality.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

The 2008 election is for the Dems taking. Nominating Hillary is the best way that the Dems can lose the 2008 election. Hillary White House aspirations need to put to bed as fast as possible.

Ape I will have ot agree with some of what Veckar said, the true is that one of the reasons we are in the problems we have in our nation is due to corporations and capitalism going wrong for the American nation becasue our nation has been sacrifice for the exchange of profits and greed.

Capitalism is good for a nation but when capitalism is control by elites that has sold our nation to foreign investment and has made our economy an economy of spenders and not producers, while killing middle class American with outsourcing to get slave sweat shop that can product cheaper and still sell the goods high. . . Gets who is loosing . . . the American people and our nation that can not compete anymore.

Economies can no survive on trade record deficits and not productions of goods.

I think you are missing the entire picture.

no marge I see the picture very clear, I notice you among others always run around on these forums talking about how corrupt america is and how we are going to collapse etc etc etc, well let me tell you this is false. first of all america has had foreign investment for centuries we hardly sold ourselves short, everyone here is so quick to blame corporations yet are so quick to forget these same corporations provided goods for consumers in this country ( which we all need ) and provide healthcare, benefits and a paycheck for their workers( which everyone needs ).

despite you and vekars opinions this is very important to many americans and is vital to our way of life. talking about letting the government have control in the free market is wrong and it would onyl lead to pure corruption if the feds have a say in the market because they always muck things up. I work in this country and have a family and a newborn son, I have been paying income taxes since i started working the fact both of you make statements about corporations like this is really immature and you need a reality check as they are a vital part of our country.


vekar is wrong on so many levels it's scary, this is why liberals are hard to be taken seriously, I suggest educating yourself on how this country works. this country wont collapse but it does need to make some serious adjustments with our domestic tax 'law' that was raped and twisted for 3 decades by the democratic majority, all democrat politicans have a speciaL relationship with the IRS and i find that very scary. marge dont flip flop on me I always see you on here advocating for liberals and vouching for vekar will only make you come off foolish.

if you think americans are weakened by corporations then your wrong, we are weakened by our politicans we elect into office who are used to get tax breaks for the rich because of our jacked up system, how about creating a system where where lobbyist wont have a direct impact on how one pays taxes? politicans on both sides of the isle are freaking jokes it's up to us to change this and by the attitudes i have encountered in this thread I question that mental fortitude and politicans bank on that kind of low moral and weakness.







[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

THANK YOU MARGE! THAT YOU FOR READING WHAT I WAS SAYING! THANK YOU!

Marge got it, she got what I was saying: corporate greed.

Now in case you are wondering what kind of "tax" I am talking about, I am talking about TARIFFS on imports. Two different words but none the less it gets the point across because they are both a tax.
USD $120 for pair of shoes-Domestic
USD $200 for pair of shoes-Foreign
Both shoes are the same design, but the foreign is made of substandard quality and material, the USA made is TOP quality and TOP quality material.
Without the tariff:
USD $120 for pair of shoes-Domestic
USD $60 for pair of shoes-Foreign
People will snatch up the 50% off shoes because they have low wages, even if they shoes are not going to last as long.
SUPPLY AND DEMAND! Supply goes up, demand goes down, supply goes down, demand goes up. Prices also flow along these lines.

Want to know WHY corporations will NEVER come back to the USA out of choice? Here is why:
Chinese get paid about $1.25 an hour in the South Pacific sweatshops/garmet factories, Americans get paid more than $13.25 in most areas.
Chinese are a dime a dozen, I LIVED in the South Pacific and SAW these factories, the corporations makes a MINT off of the Chinese and will NEVER go back to the USA because:
OSHA cannot touch them, they have to warn of any and all "inspections" a few months in advance
Workers are so cheap to get AN ORDINARY US CITIZEN WITH A LOW INCOME PAYCHECK COULD HAVE A HOUSEMAID! Saipan where I lived was where I first witnessed minimum wage job workers having housemaids who were immigrants, all on greencards. You may be poor, but you can have a housemaid they are so cheap.
Back to what I was saying:
-Chinese do not complain about working conditions
-They live in squalor and think- WOW! This beats my home in China!
-They get pregnant= fired
-Injured= fired
-Corporations use the illegal in the USA that is, INDENTURED WORKERS SYSTEM
-The corporation can provide housing for USD $200 a month, then slap 30 workers in a two room apartment and each pays them BACK 200 a month, which they cannot, the corporation makes them pay THEM for water and power.
-Work loads are insane, just think of a 4ft 2" Chinese woman with a stack of shirts taller than her she has to finish in the next 4 hours or face being fired.
-It is ALL legal.

So unless you make slavery legal in the USA, they are NOT comming back. I got to see inside one of these factories that makes shirts and that is how I know this, then a Chinese woman made a documentary about it which was shut up REALLY fast and exposed even MORE of what was going on. So unless slavery is legal once again, forget it. That or drop your wages to less than $1.25 an hour and remove all taxes, OSHA, and unions. Then make inspections illegal to boot. Then they might... ALSO make child labor legal again, do not forget that one, USD $0.05 an hour in Bangladesh.

We need to have companies that CARE, not companies that want MONEY and POWER=Greed and GLUTONY. Problems will only fester and get out of hand and explode in your face.

Ever wonder if the dems are TRYING to "lose?" They rig elections but it helps to put on a good show for the public, maybe they will put forth all of these people so no one can win and make it easier to fake the election, to many broken up votes. Maybe they will run Hillary because even if they FAIL at faking the election it wont matter.

ok im done, I will message someone else to come in here to correct you becaue I simply wont waste my time with someone who refuses to read the information I provide in my links, get a job buddy and go learn what its like out there before spewing garbage. good day.

Originally posted by ape
no marge I see the point very clear, I notice you among others always run around on these forums talking about how corrupt America is and how we are going to collapse etc etc etc, well let me tell you this is false.

The same way that you have your opinion about how our nation is going so others like me see differently.

And I see not problem with that.

How do think that a nation can survive on spending only while depending on foreign nations to keep financing our debt.

We live in an illusion Ape our nation in the last 20 years has been sold to foreign investments that only goals is profits.

You said that corporations provided with health care and others things but that was 20 years ago when they were still American companies.

The majority of people in American can not afford a health insurance and the outrageous cost of medicines.

You can look at a dream and believe that is working, but reality and everyday working American will tell you the reality of what is going in our inner cities and small towns.

Ape America do not belong to Americans anymore.

look who owns America debt so we can keep spending more.

www.economyincrisis.org...

You know how sad it is that our own government lies to us when it comes to economic issues but keep quite about how our nation has been sold piece by piece to the point that is not keeping the records straight since 2002 so people can not research on what goes on in some of our nations issues.

I wonder why?

Foreign Ownership of US Domestic Industries

www.economyincrisis.org...

I wonder what they are hidden from the hard working American tax payer.

america is the investment capital of the world for a reason, american consumers can also afford more than any other consumer on the planet and this is with our jacked up federal tax code however im not sure how strong the purchasing power of the EU member countries citizens are. I am the average american marge, I pay my taxes and work for a living and I got great benefits, I even had good benefits when i worked for 8 dollars an hour in retail. corporations provide plenty of benefits what are you talking about?


US GDP also grows alot faster then the debt we accumilate, take a good look at the debt to GDP ratios of those countries and consider the sheer size of the US, we are doing alot better than most we just need to check government spending which is out of control and make some replacements and reforms which is why fairtax will happen.


the US
www.cia.gov...

china
www.cia.gov...

japan
www.cia.gov...

russia
www.cia.gov...

EU
www.cia.gov...



[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

Hillary announced her run for the White House.

She did it on the internet, just like Obama.
She did it earlier then most people thought she would. I think Obama's
early popularity (pre-vetting) pushed her to do it.

The presence of Obama is pushing the dems process.

Did ya'll notice ... was it a backdrop or was it previously recorded ... Hillary's internet message that she's running was made in what looks like full summer mode - the trees were all nice and green in the window. Has the announcement been recorded and 'in the can' since August?

Originally posted by RRconservative
Gingrich vs Hillary is the matchup I would most like to see! Gingrich would crush her!

He'd crash and burn. Guiliani is the republicans best shot. Guiliani and McCain as VP. (or the other way around).

Originally posted by ape

we are doing alot better than most we just need to check government spending which is out of control and make some replacements and reforms which is why fairtax will happen.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

Don't get me wrong Ape I worry about my nations economy becasue just like any other American that live on a salary anything that happens to our nations affects everyone.

I am an average American with a husband that happen to have a very good job that can keep us comfortable have children in college and I can either stay at home or work, I have a choice.

But like everything it can change if he loses that job.

I fight for what is going on in this nation, how has been take over and how politicians in only two elites parties wants people believing that they are the ones to make things better, once they are in power they are nothing than corrupted politicians serving their own private agendas behind corporate america.

Hillary can run anything she wants . . . but Obama is going to become more favored.

The only problem is the choices of the people specialy when the nation majority is between middle age men Americans from the hartland and bible belt, will they go for a Woman president . . . I wonder, but will middle age white men in American goes for a Black man president? . . . I wonder.

Both will be the first in history.

it will never happen hillary and barack are jokes, americans know this what we are seeing is the media hyping up the democrats like always, it's pathetic.

boortz lays it down good

'Well, well. Big surprise. Hillary Rodham has decided that she's in, and she's "in to win."

Oh goody.

The news over the weekend really wasn't that Hillary is in the presidential race; the news is that the media treated it as such a stunning surprise. To listen to CNN on Saturday, you would have thought that nothing was going on anywhere else in the entire known world. Now was it just me, or did the mainstream media sound positively orgasmic over Clinton's announcement?

The New Hampshire primary is one year away -- unless they move it up. There is plenty of time to watch Hillary and tell you the stories you won't see in the mainstream media. Let's just cover the basics:

Hillary Clinton is vicious. There is absolutely nothing that she won't do to gain the political power she has been coveting for most of her life. She is a cold-blooded politician who will take no prisoners in her quest for the presidency.


Hillary Clinton heads the list of those who think that America is great because of its government.


Hillary Clinton believes that Americans get their rights from government. If you don't know why this is a dangerous attitude, you probably attended government schools.


Speaking of government schools, with Hillary Rodham you can forget the idea of school choice. The teacher's unions will continue to run the show.


Hillary holds our military is complete disdain. Remember, this is the woman who had U.S. Marines in their dress blue uniforms serving cheese and crackers to guests at White House functions. When her husband was president there were repeated stories that Hillary's White House staff showed deliberate rudeness to military personnel. In one story you've probably forgotten a Hillary aid in the White House once told a uniformed military office that "We don't talk to people in military uniforms in this office."


Hillary tried to implement a health care plan that would have made it a crime for you to use your own dollars to hire your own doctor. Now think about that for a moment. How much else do you need to know? She actually wanted to make it a crime for you to arrange for your own medical care outside of her great Hillarycare system using your own dollars. Picture this. You're sitting in a jail cell. Your cellmate is in there for bank robbery. He looks at you and says "So, what did you do?" You tell him "Oh ... I tried to hire a doctor with my own money to take care of a medical problem." That, my friends, is Hillary's America.


Hillary Rodham is a disgrace to the institution of marriage. That relationship she has with Bill Clinton is no marriage at all. It is a political partnership entered into for the purpose of acquiring and maintaining political power. Nothing more.


Hillary has not only tolerated her "husband's" many trysts with other women, she has been actively engaged in, and sometimes led, the effort to destroy any of these women who dared to step forward to complain.


She is fundamentally dishonest ... almost pathologically dishonest. Perhaps the greatest example of her innate dishonesty would be the saga of the Rose Law Firm billing records. The congress served a subpoena on Hillary for those records. She said that she did not have them. For two years she denied that those records were in her possession, and in fact suggested that they may not exist at all. Then, two years after the subpoena was served, those very records were found in her private living quarters at the White House. Not only were they found, but they had her fingerprints and handwriting all over them. In other words .. she lied.


Hillary Clinton is anti-individual. When discussing her socialized medicine plan with a group of Republican congressmen in 1993 Hillary said "We have to stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." No .. she's wrong. We have to start thinking about what it would be like to have a president who put the common good above individual rights. Hillary Rodham is part and parcel of the war on individualism.
A bit more about Hillary Rodham and your health care:

Now that Hillary Clinton is officially in the race, she is choosing health care as her signature issue. What a great idea...it worked so well before. By the way, anybody notice how it was warm and sunny out her office window in her videotaped announcement that she was running? Seems like that little piece of tape was recorded in advance. Many people have noticed, by the way. There's late word that the announcement was indeed taped in Washington last week. Maybe it's a fake tree in the window behind her. Who knows. But back to health care.

So what is Hillary's health care proposal going to be this time? Things didn't work out so well 13 years ago when she proposed a government takeover of the medical industry. Says The Hildabeast: "I will be introducing legislation to make quality, affordable health care available to every child in America." What does that mean? just covering children? It would seem so. Well, according to Hillary...anyone would be able to buy into her program. And just how much is all of this going to cost? Naturally, no mention of the price tag. But suffice it to say that if Hillary Clinton becomes president of the United States, your earnings will be confiscated to pay for other people's health care. Just get used to the idea.

And don't buy for a minute this routine that Hillary Clinton only jumped in because Barack Obama forced her to. She has been planning this move for decades...and everything unfolding right now is part of that plan. It all goes back to when she was running things and wearing the pants in her husband's administration. Except now it's her turn.
Know this. If Hillary Clinton becomes President Rodham, and if the Democrats increase their hold on power in the congress, this will be the last presidential election in which talk radio will play any significant part at all. Though I've been telling you this for years, it has become clear in the last few weeks that Democrats plan to destroy talk radio with the resurrection of the so-called "Fairness Doctrine."


boortz.com...

Originally posted by Vekar
THANK YOU MARGE! THAT YOU FOR READING WHAT I WAS SAYING! THANK YOU!

Marge got it, she got what I was saying: corporate greed.

Now in case you are wondering what kind of "tax" I am talking about, I am talking about TARIFFS on imports. Two different words but none the less it gets the point across because they are both a tax.
USD $120 for pair of shoes-Domestic
USD $200 for pair of shoes-Foreign
Both shoes are the same design, but the foreign is made of substandard quality and material, the USA made is TOP quality and TOP quality material.
Without the tariff:
USD $120 for pair of shoes-Domestic
USD $60 for pair of shoes-Foreign
People will snatch up the 50% off shoes because they have low wages, even if they shoes are not going to last as long.
SUPPLY AND DEMAND! Supply goes up, demand goes down, supply goes down, demand goes up. Prices also flow along these lines.

Want to know WHY corporations will NEVER come back to the USA out of choice? Here is why:
Chinese get paid about $1.25 an hour in the South Pacific sweatshops/garmet factories, Americans get paid more than $13.25 in most areas.
Chinese are a dime a dozen, I LIVED in the South Pacific and SAW these factories, the corporations makes a MINT off of the Chinese and will NEVER go back to the USA because:
OSHA cannot touch them, they have to warn of any and all "inspections" a few months in advance
Workers are so cheap to get AN ORDINARY US CITIZEN WITH A LOW INCOME PAYCHECK COULD HAVE A HOUSEMAID! Saipan where I lived was where I first witnessed minimum wage job workers having housemaids who were immigrants, all on greencards. You may be poor, but you can have a housemaid they are so cheap.
Back to what I was saying:
-Chinese do not complain about working conditions
-They live in squalor and think- WOW! This beats my home in China!
-They get pregnant= fired
-Injured= fired
-Corporations use the illegal in the USA that is, INDENTURED WORKERS SYSTEM
-The corporation can provide housing for USD $200 a month, then slap 30 workers in a two room apartment and each pays them BACK 200 a month, which they cannot, the corporation makes them pay THEM for water and power.
-Work loads are insane, just think of a 4ft 2" Chinese woman with a stack of shirts taller than her she has to finish in the next 4 hours or face being fired.
-It is ALL legal.

So unless you make slavery legal in the USA, they are NOT comming back. I got to see inside one of these factories that makes shirts and that is how I know this, then a Chinese woman made a documentary about it which was shut up REALLY fast and exposed even MORE of what was going on. So unless slavery is legal once again, forget it. That or drop your wages to less than $1.25 an hour and remove all taxes, OSHA, and unions. Then make inspections illegal to boot. Then they might... ALSO make child labor legal again, do not forget that one, USD $0.05 an hour in Bangladesh.

We need to have companies that CARE, not companies that want MONEY and POWER=Greed and GLUTONY. Problems will only fester and get out of hand and explode in your face.

Ever wonder if the dems are TRYING to "lose?" They rig elections but it helps to put on a good show for the public, maybe they will put forth all of these people so no one can win and make it easier to fake the election, to many broken up votes. Maybe they will run Hillary because even if they FAIL at faking the election it wont matter.

first of all the reason US products are more expensive is because of the embedded taxes that go along with them, fairtax eliminates this and levels the playing field eliminating the needs for tariffs( which dont solve the problem anyways), it also allows the US worker to keep all of their money and would increase investment on a grandscale. it would also fund social security and medicare which are funded by income tax instead would be funded by consumption a more stable source of government income.

vekar
the reason we are getting hammered in the global economy is the payroll and corporatetax component of our goods. we are the only OECD country without a border adjustable tax which puts us at a 20% disadvantage when trying to sell manufactured or agricultural produst for export. along with japan, we have th highest corporate tax rate of any OECD country. only people pay taxes so in your little world when you said 'TAX THE HELL OUT OF CORPORATIONS IF THEY GO OVERSEAS!!!' that tax would only be payed by the consumer.



[edit on 22-1-2007 by ape]

ape

Going back to the Hillary thread, do you think that we can be any worse that we have been with Bush and 6 years of congress domination?

yeah it can be alot worse, hillary is a socialist and america is waking up to the fairtax so we will see what happens. I dont draw party lines but I dont trust hillary nor do i trust bush, considering his tax panel rejected the fairtax under bogus conditions.

the only way to get this through is by the people, i have faith in the people not these stupid politicans, the people just need to educate themselves on the truth and not be knuckleheads.

the democrats have proposed no solutions to fix our domestic situation and our medicare social security and national security issues so they will get zero respect from me.

Originally posted by Vekar
Ape you need to stop and THINK for once, you are NOT comprehending what I am saying, you sound as if you never even READ what I say. Garbage? YOUR posting the garbage because YOU refuse to comprehend what I am saying! AND you try and insult me, calling me 17 years old and living off my parents, YOU are trying to start a fight and being a TROLL!

The fairtax is for the american ppl, by the american ppl. It is the american ppl pushing for the fairtax.

Basically what the fairtax will do, is make it more profitable to do business in the US. Making the US products more competitive out in the open market with the likes of china, and india.

The Fairtax would increase our Foreign trade. right now, our current tax laws restrict our trade. The income tax puts American companies at an unfair disadvantage when facing worldwide competition. As our goods are shipped around the world, they contain the compounded costs of our tax system. This makes our goods more expensive and less competitive compared to foreign goods. The FairTax allows U.S. exports to compete at lower prices than they do now. Lower prices on our goods will greatly increase the demand for U.S. exports. This will also increase jobs in U.S. manufacturing companies.

-TAXING foreign IMPORTS makes them more EXPENSIVE to make elsewhere.

What will your system do about EXPORTS? Your solution wont save the US and it wont save us from our debt by making more americans buy american... How will that help american products abroad? how does your solution make it more profitable to do buisness OUTSIDE of the US? The fairtax solves all of this. Look at the BIGGER picture please.

-TAXING DOMESTIC GOODS but LESS than foreign imports keeps the prices balanced or out of balance as they should be, I GAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THIS!

I musta missed this example. But if it as flawwed as the rest of your arguement is then I dont see any reason to read it.

With no income tax, no corporate tax and no capital gains tax, the U.S. would become the world’s largest tax haven. Now is what that means is that the United States will be the only major country in the world with a zero tax rate on income, making it the most attractive place for foreign companies to locate facilities and create jobs for americans.

Just as an example, FairTax went out and surveyed 500 major foreign companies in the EU and Asia and asked what they would do if the USA no longer had an income tax. 400 of those companies said they would build their next factory in the U.S. 100 of these foreign companies said they would move their headquarters to the U.S. So as you can see it would literally creat tens of thousands of good high paying jobs for americans. And with americas educated population base, and its ability to make quality products, you would have to be downright dumb to pass up an opportunity such as this.

-REMOVING all taxes or most of them here in the USA will CREATE problems not solve them.

Ahh but see, you lack the understanding of the fairtax. It is your solution that is the one creating all the problems.

I do not work minimum wage but my parent used too, friends of mine work minimum wage, but not all. Guess what? Even the ones NOT working minimum wage have a hard time! Why? The government removes so many taxes from the elite that they pass it to the rest of us. This increases YOUR taxes, also they need money for their wars, so they increase YOUR taxes and debase YOUR dollar. I already read a link about the "fairtax" which was posted by someone else, forget the name. What I read will not help us but hurt us, corporations leave because they get cheap labor, to get cheap labor here you will have to pay LESS than other nations, or remove taxes as it suggested. Bad mistake, as I SAID IT FEEDS THOSE WHO ARE GREEDY!
Ape if all you can do is be disrespectul then do not talk to me again.

What your proposing is more complicated then the fairtax will ever be. What your proposing would hurt the country, not help it. What would your system do about our Medicare and social security crisis? How about exports? How would your proposal make america more competitve abroad, not just at home? Your 'solution' would be more problematic. And by reading the above post by you, has led me to come to the conclusion that your not seeing the 'bigger picture'.

And just to rehash what I have said in other threads.
The FairTax solves the social security crisis, pays for Medicare, pays down the national debt, and releases our nation’s individuals and businesses to become as successful and productive as they so desire. There have been estimates that our nation’s economy would more than double. Even if it only grew by only 40%, the investment and growth in the stock market alone would resolve all of the issues with the major airlines and automobile manufacturers. There will be good high paying 'jobs-a-plenty' for americans! The simplicity of the FairTax frees Americans from our current overwhelming tax code and unshackles the U.S. economy.

What is wrong with makeing the government spending more transparent to the american ppl?

What is wrong with an american economy that would more then DOUBLE its current GDP size by 2015, that is, if the fairtax became law today?!

Whats wrong with making illegal aliens who get "paid under the table", pay our taxes for the first time ever? What is wrong with making an estimated 50,000,000 foreighn tourist to the US every year, taxpayers? If we make international tourists and illegal aliens tax payers by way of the consumption tax, tax revenue increases substantially.

The fairtax has been heavily researched and debated for the past 11 years. 75 of the worlds economist are currently endorsing the fairtax proposal. I will take there word over yours or anyone else on this board any day and anytime of the week, as I beleive them to know alot more about the subject matter then you or anyone else currently gracing this board with all their blind ignorance.

If I may make a suggestion. Educate yourself.

www.youtube.com...





[edit on 063131p://0601pm by semperfoo]


[edit on 063131p://0901pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 063131p://1401pm by semperfoo]

Ugh, your making the same assumptions as ape did, sadly you are not realizing any of what I am saying because you refuse to comprehend. Also you keep trying to insult my intelligence. So, as I said to ape and now to you: if all you can do is insult me, do not talk to me.

What I propose is the BACKING UP of what we already have, it worked for over 100 years and can still work, only people are SCARED To back it up. I named WHY corporations LEAVE the USA, guess you missed that or purposefully overlooked it. A tax system based on your income is what will work IF YOU BACK IT UP and do as I said: prevent the elite from passing it to the consumer.
This has NOTHING to do with the topic, so this is as far as I will go, you can just go read what I said and I mean ALL of it not just what you WANT to read, then you might see what I was saying.

Originally posted by Vekar
Ugh, your making the same assumptions as ape did, sadly you are not realizing any of what I am saying because you refuse to comprehend. Also you keep trying to insult my intelligence. So, as I said to ape and now to you: if all you can do is insult me, do not talk to me.


What I propose is the BACKING UP of what we already have, it worked for over 100 years and can still work, only people are SCARED To back it up.

It worked because the rest of the world hadnt caught on to capitalism like they have now. Had they sooner then we would be in a real big mess right now.

The US would be uping the economic bar by switching to the fairtax. Whats wrong with pefecting a system? in this case the tax system?

I named WHY corporations LEAVE the USA,

And its only looked at from your perspective. Your just to damned stubborn to admit it.

Its true that America is sending most of it's manufacturing jobs to China because of labor costs. However its also because of taxes and regulations.. But if they didnt go offshore then they wouldnt be competitive out in the open market. Ya see vekar. It becomes far to expensive for them to stay in the US, so they relocate often times to china, where the taxes are cheaper and labor is cheap. Blame it on capitalism. I blame it on our current taxation system. As capitalism tactics change We have to change and thus far we havent done that.

Now let me try this again. A Fair Tax would make it more profitable to manufacture in America. In effect, removing 20-30% of the price of a good by the time it hits the end user. With a 23% percent sales tax it will basically even out to what you and I pay today on taxes. But we keep 100% of our paychecks. Finally, it forces transparency on the government which I think we can all agree needs to be done. The government will no longer be able to increase spending through schemes without it being obvious to the American people.

guess you missed that or purposefully overlooked it. A tax system based on your income is what will work IF YOU BACK IT UP and do as I said: prevent the elite from passing it to the consumer.

CAPITALISM!! That is why the 'elite' are sending your and my jobs over seas. They wont stay competitve for long if they didnt do that. thank our tax system for it. Its survival of the fittest. Even If you and I dont like it. They have to stay competitive somehow. I guess you didnt bother reading what I wrote then either. You just passed it off as the "same ole" "same ole" BS.

Do you happen to know how many pages our current tax system requires you to comply with? 60,000 pages and growing each and every year! Its what the government wants so they can have more and more control over the ppl and stay in power. It kills manufactureing here in the states. It becomes far to costly and it wont work for to much longer. Its unsustainable It wont solve our medicare and social security crisis that is looming. Your solution doesnt do it either. It acutally worsens it. It doesnt pay down our debt. It acutally increases our debt because the government spending isnt transparent to the American ppl!

This has NOTHING to do with the topic, so this is as far as I will go, you can just go read what I said and I mean ALL of it not just what you WANT to read, then you might see what I was saying.

Look man, I dont take anything literal over the net. Especially at a site like this. You need to calm down and pop a zanny or whatever but chill out. You take this way to serious.

PS. I thought getting off topic is what you ppl do best around here.

[edit on 103131p://4801pm by semperfoo]

do you pay income taxes in this country vekar? i pay taxes in california a tax to the max state. do you even know what it's like to have the government dig into your paycheck every 2 weeks? I dont think you do as this system is a proven joke and the numbers dont lie, you have provided no rebuttale to my information and links you sir are DONE.

if you think for 1 second an american company would rather go overseas into some third world slum simply to pay poor people crap wages then you have no idea on how our system works, it's much more complicated than your simplified scenario, they would much rather stay home in much better ( more stable ) conditions and save all the money with no with no income tax, no corporate tax and no capital gains tax. the american worker is much more capable than some 3rd world worker, not only that we are much more educated. you are obviously misinformed.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by ape]