to live like "christ"...

i've studied the handful accounts of the supposed man "jesus"
he seems like a fairly decent individual (bit of a temper at times, though)
however, some people hold him up as the greatest example of how to live

now, i ask you some questions

religion aside, what did "jesus" really do for the world while he was alive?

could you really compare "jesus" to another figure, gandhi perhaps, and actually say he is a "better" individual?


----------------------
my main point is
as a man, is "jesus" really the best person to model your life after?

I actually tried this path for seven years.

I gave away all my worldly possessions and walked over 7,000 miles across the U.S. from 95-99. I did good deeds and slept on offered couches from kind folks I met on the road.

It was rough, at times - trying to make due in a society that places so much importance on business and money, but I made due with little more than a guitar, a positive attitude, interesting stories to share and a little free housework in exchange for sleeping accomadations.

Still, when times changed in 1999 - people suddenly began to "look beyond" helping out travelers, and I had to return to the "real world".

It was hard as heck to put my idealism aside, and I was flat out floored at how much I had changed over the years. My "turn the other cheek" attitude became a burden and found me being taken advantage of so often by the system and it's subscribers that I could not hold my own in the working world without embracing some of the very mentalities I had fought so hard to leave behind.

Jesus got crucified on the cross, and I got crucified in the world of employment because of my new perspective.

Is Jesus a good role model? In a way, but not in extremes. Even Ghandi was shot for attracting too much attention. I'm just happy I didn't have a following to worry about.

Oh well - it's just one story out there - hope it was relevant.

DP

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Selmer2]

Ace question,

Christ indeed gave more to humanity than any other human being has. I will show you with absolutely no biased remarks on either side of the fence.

Christ is viewed as the son of God and redeemer by Christians but with that image aside Christ's benefit to humanity was no doubt his words / teachings

for example the famous 'love one another as I have loved you'. Sounds corney and cute but when you analyse this you understand that everyone wants material, status etc for themselves thus cutting any outside support from the human matrix therefore being left to fend for yourself. But if everyone enjoys there materialism, status etc. whilst being supportive to joe blow on the street everyone can easily rely on literally anyone thus plugging themselves into a huge support network. This works like the free energy theory. With this theory, problems and suffering are very hard to come by.

Although people have adopted or followed Christ's idealogy such as

M. Luther King
Mother Teresa
Gandhi
Nelson Mandela
Buddha
Saints, holymen etc.

they have clearly not made an impact anywhere near like Christ has in terms of spirituality, followers, fame, influence, history, art, literature, music, time (our calendar) and festivities. Not to mention marketing ability (just kidding)

So what Jesus did was create a huge impact in humanities way of thinking and doing for the better as well as giving humanity hope that he will return, unfortunately after a while after he left things went down hill (the Catholic Church was ATROCIOUS for a long time to say the least).

So I say definately live like Christ and serve humanity anyway possible without any form of weaponary.

NOTE: Christ being a myth is NOT debatable, read any Agnostic Roman historian's texts. Whether he WAS the Son of God IS debatable.

Think of it this way, what would it be like if Christ did not exist in our history? Feels kinda awkward & strange doesn't it.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
My "turn the other cheek" attitude became a burden and found me being taken advantage of so often by the system and it's subscribers that I could not hold my own in the working world without embracing some of the very mentalities I had fought so hard to leave behind.

Funny how society seems to work against progress.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
Jesus got crucified on the cross, and I got crucified in the world of employment because of my new perspective.

The creature was crucified on the cross, not the Christ. Of course like most things this is debatable. Although if one looks deeply enough they can clearly see the symbolism. In order to have eternal life in the spirit one must crucify the flesh. At least that is how I see it.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
Is Jesus a good role model? In a way, but not in extremes. Even Ghandi was shot for attracting too much attention. I'm just happy I didn't have a following to worry about.

You almost make it sound like death is something to be feared? Death is a blessed release especially when your saved. Then we can finally take of this God-awful monkey suit.


Kindest Regards

Selmer2, you made one false statement in your post
buddha was around in about 600 BCE, well before "jesus"
that means that, if anyone adopted the teachings of someone, it was the other way around

EDIT
and it is debatable whether or not he was a myth, just not in this thread
so, please, take that to my "Did Jesus exist?" thread

[edit on 1/20/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Selmer and lucum made some excellent points. I'd like to add that Jesus can't be compared to anybody. He is divine. There is no comparison.

Originally posted by NowAmFound
Selmer and lucum made some excellent points. I'd like to add that Jesus can't be compared to anybody. He is divine. There is no comparison.

wow, you ignored the whole "let's exclude religion" part of my initial post

either that, or you just conciously decided that you'd attempt to derail this thread with your personal religious beliefs


nice job.....

anyway
almost all of the ideas "jesus" brought forth were already established by Siddhārtha Gautama about 600 years prior to the birth of "jesus"

edit

i just have to reply to the point of gandhi following the teachings of "jesus"
that's a common misconception
gandhi held some of the teachings of "jesus" in high regard because they matched up with his hindu beliefs

[edit on 1/20/07 by madnessinmysoul]

\

General eyes, why did you believe in Jesus teachings and try it, but not him? Why do you have no faith that he created your being like scripture said so?

Turn the other cheek means dont render evil for evil, it does not say you cannot reprove someone who his taking advantage of you.


this world is so faithless it almost wrenches my stomach inside and out.


This post cannot be answered without religion, as Christ was the prophecied messiah predictied many years in the Old testament to come into the world and be a man of sorrows.


So we believe that he worked miracles, and offered himself for our wretched sins. Hes not looking for the material welfare of people which die quikly, but for the spiritual, somehting the (sensual) man cannot understand nor will ever.


madness if you ever felt the things of the spirit you would know, and I dont mean the feel good protestant movement with their hands in the air like they receieved the holy ghost, they have no clue what communion is nor how to worship God in true humility.

Im talkingabout the deepness of his love, and ive felt it, and once you taste it you never want it to leave.


And it comes through humiltiy, and only those who are child in spirit can enter into it because they have humiltiy.


You will never know why he came until we are all at the seat, and its soon coming. And Ghandi has no grace without God, hes a slimeball without God and cant do one good act without him.

Nonodies good without him, and whoever thinks so is running on pride.




peace.

[edit on 20-1-2007 by JesusisTruth]

Sorry folks I see the mistakes

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Selmer2, you made one false statement in your post
buddha was around in about 600 BCE, well before "jesus"
that means that, if anyone adopted the teachings of someone, it was the other way around

EDIT
and it is debatable whether or not he was a myth, just not in this thread
so, please, take that to my "Did Jesus exist?" thread

Yes Buddha is ancient compared to Christ, I should have stated this in brackets. I put him there because he promoted similar things.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i just have to reply to the point of gandhi following the teachings of "jesus"
that's a common misconception
gandhi held some of the teachings of "jesus" in high regard because they matched up with his hindu beliefs

Again adopted / followed is not the right word, condoned / validated yes.

I will leave you with a message from my sponsors:

Selmer2 eats !!!! damn this things full of nutritious goodness

[edit on 20-1-2007 by Selmer2]

Jesus DID care more about people's material suffering at the time than he did religion or even spirtuality....he fed the poor instead of going to Purim...he did attend the 3 required feasts - these were commandments from Moses and the rest was add-ons by subsequent generations of 'law' givers. But Moses gave the law and Jesus fulfilled it.

What does that mean?

K.I.S.S.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

IF they are HUNGRY then do as if it were you who were HUNGRY.
FEED THEM.

Be wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Be a light not a pair of spectacles. Be a seedling instead of a shell built of dead wood. If you preach to the people (because they followed you in droves) then FEED the people. And, for Peter's sake, PRACTICE what you preach. BEFORE you preach it. MORE than you preach it. Preach it ONCE. Do it daily!

Don't worry about people taking advantage of you - what can they take from you that REALLY matters? Your life? Not your real life - and your freedom depends upon your integrity. If you never tell a lie or operate in the shadows, that is in a way less than honorable, then you won't be deprived of your freedom. This I know. Even a deliberate frame will not prevail against the soul who speaks and does the truth.

(and by that I mean things that, even spoken in innocence, could later be construed as anything other than straight up truth - IOW abstain from all appearance of 'evil')

No matter WHAT you do in life...PEOPLE are first. Not YOU but OTHERS.

Even above your next meal or whatever it is you think you need to survive.
Whether you are a TV evangelist or a homeless heroine addict - people over 'things' and you will overcome! Unless you kill yourself or are killed, you will survive. There's nothing else to do!

If you do not care for one another - who will care for you?
[buddhist proverb]

I've lived it all...I'm not going to go into details - boring and nothing special. The lessons I learned aren't as valuable as the overall perspective and clarity I gained. But humility came pretty hard - it is death no doubt and it is a suicidal death of one's pride and false sense of personal power. Power only comes by relinquishing power.

BUT to credit the written record of Christ and the living desire in my heart to do as he did I will say that for me, 'Jesus' changed my whole life - because the still small voice that i've had for my die-hard inner friend i always called Jesus and believed that he was - this was before I knew his name I knew he was there.

Doesn't matter what the name was or who came first (first is last last is first) or ANY of that.

What if: the story was written as a fish hook so to speak....and that by believing without an ounce of doubt, the fiction would materialize into non-fiction 2000 years later?

A true spiritual resurrection that was no less than a miracle? And there were witnesses...not like then but like we can prove these days? And the risen Lazarus didn't leave 40 days later but stayed on Earth for centuries - alive? THAT is the feast caught on the patient fisherman's hook...

IOW - if I believed a 'fairy tale' but my innocent whole hearted belief turned an unclean frog into a Prince Charming who saves the world...then it may have not started out to be historically correct but not a lie, either...rewriting history by living far beyond even 120 years would render the question null and void, anyway, wouldn't it?

JUST a 'what if'. Or maybe not.

Dear Q, Jesus only cared for the main importance which is to teach souls to live for the spiritual life and perfection of spirit.

The material works come with self denial, but it is not the main importance of Gods coming to earth.

he sacraficed for our sins which defile our souls. hed said that what does is profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?


Helping the poor with good as you know profits alot, but in the end the only thing that matters is our soul.


I ;like thaqt passage, wise as serpent and simple as a dove.


We live as shepp in the midst of wolves, and the more you go into the world the more you see how vicious it is.


peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

Dear Q, Jesus only cared for the main importance which is to teach souls to live for the spiritual life and perfection of spirit.

Helping the poor with good as you know profits alot, but in the end the only thing that matters is our soul.

You Help the Poor because its the right thing to do....
Jesus was talked about it alot...read the parable of the Tenant.

If you merely do for your fellow man, you honor your God. And when you honor your God you honor Christs Teachings...

Christ told the Rich Ruler that if he wanted to be Perfect....

20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

With 600 million Homeless today
With 60 Million Starving to DEATH every year
With 6 Million CHILDREN Starving to DEATH every year...

Do you smell a Beast?
Theres your 666.
Let he who is wise let him Calculate...For it is a number of a man.

There are 300 million Hungry in India...as I write this..while their is extreme wealth and poverty there..

America ...1 in 8 kids go to bed hungry..
America... some 3 Million homeless in a years time
America..25% of the world prison population...In the richest nation on earth? Thats an abomination.
Not many countries are going to want a helping of that...Every wonder why the war in Iraq might be going bad? This could be a factor.

Jesus taught that by doing for your fellow man, you build treasures in Heaven. That you really shouldnt worry about earthly treasure, but treasures of the Kingdom of God.

In other words..perform a service for your fellow man, go out of your way to help the homeless, hungry and the disadvantaged..and dont worry that your not going to be Donald Trump in this life.

If you chase Earthly Riches...you might lose the Invisible Riches in the Kingdom of Heaven...

When the world is all about getting mine..and not about ALL OF US...then is that really " On Earth as it is in Heaven " ?

Christ did say that didnt he...There is a Human side to his manner..

Mankind was not put here to oppress his fellow man. We were to serve.

And by doing so..you serve the Lord God Almighty and Christ

Somehow that didnt happen

Jesus was the Champion of the Poor and sick and the Castaways..

and I Quote...

"AND seeing the people come unto him, Jesus, said unto his disciples, Because of the sick I am sick; because of the hungry I am hungry; because of the thirsty I am athirst. "

Change is in the Wind....

Peace


[edit on 22-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 22-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Dear Q, Jesus only cared for the main importance which is to teach souls to live for the spiritual life and perfection of spirit.

Luke 10:
27-28 And he answering said, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.'
And he said unto him, 'Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.'

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, 'And who is my neighbor?'

30 And Jesus answering said, 'A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.'
'And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.'

33-36 'But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spends more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinks thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?'

37 And he said, 'He that shewed mercy on him.'

Then said Jesus unto him,'Go, and do thou likewise.'

Jews did not associate with Samaritans; they considered them almost in the same light as they did the gentiles back then (whom they called 'dogs'). Therefore, when the Levite and also the priest (who were both considered, no doubt, spiritually 'perfect' or near-to, by their fellow Jerusalem Jews) went by the Samaritan victim, they crossed to the other side to preserve their own spiritual condition from becoming 'unclean.'

His own spiritual condition was more important to him than the other's man physical injuries and jeopardy!

Did Jesus praise those men who put their soul's perfection first ahead of someone else's need?
No. Jesus had compassion.

Compassion is not about self but about caring about how others feel - compassion is invoked when one has empathy for another based on what they observe that other one going through. Empathy is putting one's self in the shoes of another.

Helping the poor with good as you know profits alot, but in the end the only thing that matters is our soul.

But you see, with that statement, you are putting YOU first and OTHERS second. How is that pleasing to Christ?

We live as sheep in the midst of wolves, and the more you go into the world the more you see how vicious it is.

I see no viciousness - only selfishness, lack of communication, self-absorption, and lack of compassion for eachother.

So when I do go out into it, I do what I can to promote the positive in others so that they will carry it with them and share it likewise.

Sometimes it is just a smile and friendly warm 'hello' to a passer-by - but there are far more opportunities to do positive things for people than there are legitimate reasons to add to the negative. Every little bit helps and breeds more of the same - neg or pos!

how about we start talking about the people around now-a-days that are living "against" the grain... but are helping and making a positive difference.

First off, I find Jesus to be an interesting figure. Is he God? Yes, Jesus is God but I mean that Jesus is God in the sense that we are all God and God is in all of us. Indeed we are all brothers as we are all One.

Secondly, I find it difficult to even try to compare Jesus to, say Buddha. What is there to compare? They both brought messages of truth. Some of these truths were directed at their particular chronological eras whereas the other truths that they delivered to mankind is, indeed, timeless. Truth is Truth.

The one truth that Jesus extolled was delivered to mankind through his philosophy of "turning the other cheek" -- forgiveness. Over and over again Jesus tried to make this message of forgiveness clear to all who would listen. Among the final words of Christ on the Cross were "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do".

Just imagine what the world would be like if we all simply forgave one another for all of our "tresspasses" or "sins" against one another? Bear in mind that forgiveness is dependent upon sincerity and sincerity, in turn, relies upon earnest effort to avoid "near occasions of sin". That is, we won't try to hurt one another. This is a philosophy that is valid between men, between nations.

Madness, the problem with your question is that you want people to take spirituality out of the equation. What you fail to realize is that Jesus was a figure that wasn't particularly interested in worldly affairs. He was more concerned about issues of the spirit.

To ask, "What did Jesus really do for the world," and then say, let's not address it from a spiritual standpoint is like asking "What did a politician do," and not addressing it from a political standpoint of view.

According to some, being a world-wide celebrity movie star who salivates and leaps around on Oprah's set is sufficient to become 'christ-like';

A source revealed that the reason Cruise was so powerful within the Church was because he has reportedly been told that he has been chosen to be the religion’s “Christ”.

"Tom has been told he is Scientology's Christ-like figure," The Sun quoted the source, as saying.

As for why Cruise has been dubbed the “Christ” of Scientology, well that’s because the leaders of the religion believe that like the founder of Christianity, though at the present moment he often draws flack for his opinions and espousing Scientology’s views, they are certain that “future generations” will see how much truth there is to what the actor says.

"Like Christ, he's been criticised for his views. But future generations will realise he was right," the source added.

Good. Out the door. Line on the left. One cross each.

[apologies for lowering the tone]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Madness, the problem with your question is that you want people to take spirituality out of the equation. What you fail to realize is that Jesus was a figure that wasn't particularly interested in worldly affairs. He was more concerned about issues of the spirit.

This is a great point, but not independant of Madness's original post. The teachings of Jesus as I understand them are very similar to Hinduism and Buddhism in that one must treat others as he would himself because others are himself. The unifying spirit as it were. It doesn't necessarily mean that I am literally you, and vice versa, although some (myself included) believe as such. It could just as well mean, I could be in that situation, and hope that someone would help me as I have the choice to help them.

Now, we can exclude religion all we want because all religion is is a mass of dogma aimed at keeping people in line with the status quo. Spirituality is something entirely different, as I'm sure you well know. So, even if Jesus was focussed on the the spiritual, his lessons apply to those who are not.

The interesting thing is that (and I hope you'll forgive me bringing religion into this discussion about Jesus) even if you had no desire to be one with God, and were an Athiest, the basic concept would allow you to lead a more productive, healthier, and better life for yourself, and society at large. This has been taught in Hinduism for thousands of years before Christ. If you ask me, if Jesus existed, he'd more than likely be a Buddhist or Hindu.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
To ask, "What did Jesus really do for the world," and then say, let's not address it from a spiritual standpoint is like asking "What did a politician do," and not addressing it from a political standpoint of view.

oh, you misinterpreted my point
i meant to exclude the whole messianic aspect
the teachings attributed to "jesus" are fair game on this thread, just not the ones that relate to religious salvation