Originally posted by whatukno
See we had started this form of disapline early just after his second birthday. You have to raise them with the rules firmly in place. Never waiver, and if your married work together if your divorced work together. That is one good thing that has come of my divorce both of us love our son and we work together knowing that the other parent will follow each others rules.

Another piece of excellent advice. Parents must appear as a united front. The time to disagree and discuss is later, when your child is not around.

It seems like my only contributions to this thread have been to dish out attaboys, but these pieces of advice from snafu and whatukno are valuable. Young parents, take heed.

To think they have a right to tell me what i can or can't do with my own children. When i was a kid i got spanked. Hell the VPrincipal paddle could sense when i was near. I didn't shoot up a school, smack around and women, rob a bank. I think i turned out alright. (Please hold laughter to a minimum)

This is just another example of a politician trying to get votes come election time. She is a friggen idiot.

the no spanking bill in itself isnt going to achieve anything.
By the time children are 3 , they have probably watched that many cartoons with the characters beating each other up and it being funny, that the whole lesson will be lost.

A wholistic approach, where it is also child abuse for a parent to expose any child under 3 to any visual form of violence (eg tv programs, cartoons etc) in tandem with this may be more effective IMO. Otherwise, they are wasting their time and the parents time with airy-fairy change the world type nonsense that isnt based in reality.

It would also help get the message across if these politicians put more pressure on courts in sentencing peadophiles to life terms and get serious about child abuse in general. Have child abuse cases handled through the police and courts rather than social/childrens services. That in itself says that violence against children is less serious than that against adults.

Originally posted by whatukno

That is true too. But I would hope that you would have to have substatial evidence to charge someone with this crime. I think the heart of this law is to keep people from whiping the tar out of their children which every parent can see is wrong. The real question is what can be defined as a swat on the butt and a thorough thrashing?

Unfortunately that is not the heart of this law. Here in California it is already illegal to spank, or any other form of corporal punishment, any child if it leaves ANY mark, even the littlest of marks. So if you spank your child and 30 minutes later the area is still all red, you've committed a crime.

This law would make any spanking, even the light tapping, illegal. This might just be an attempt by a new lawmaker to get her name into the known. Either way even if this law passes it will be impossible to prove someone hit their child if there is no eveidence (marks) and who says it was done in anger and not in a playful manner??

Originally posted by snafu7700

lmao.....do you have any idea how asanine that sounds? study up on the destruction of the educational system (by the way i agree with what you are emplying there), but leave the politics out of it? can you say oxymoron?

sigh....let me clarify for you. as far as your comment about rising crime - study on the destruction of our educational system. leave the politics out of THIS thread as it has no place here. just because the person who introduced this asinine bill is a democrat, doesn't mean that is a democratic movement, nor a liberal one.

Originally posted by LogansRun
sigh....let me clarify for you. as far as your comment about rising crime - study on the destruction of our educational system. leave the politics out of THIS thread as it has no place here. just because the person who introduced this asinine bill is a democrat, doesn't mean that is a democratic movement, nor a liberal one.

so your saying that our failing educational system has nothing to do with politics? that's why i was laughing.

Originally posted by snafu7700

so your saying that our failing educational system has nothing to do with politics? that's why i was laughing.

splitting hairs........
THIS THREAD has nothing to do with a failed educational system nor politics. this thread has to do with a stupid bill being introduced trying to tell parents how to parent.
yes, politics and a failing educational system have everything to do with one another, just not in THIS THREAD.

Originally posted by LogansRun

splitting hairs........
THIS THREAD has nothing to do with a failed educational system nor politics. this thread has to do with a stupid bill being introduced trying to tell parents how to parent.
yes, politics and a failing educational system have everything to do with one another, just not in THIS THREAD.

all of which you brought up. my original post had everything to do with this thread. shall we review?

Originally posted by snafu7700

IOW, as we become more and more liberal-minded as a country in our methods of punishing children, our crime rates and prison populations go up. but of course, that's just a coincidence i guess.

liberal minded. as in, taking the dr spock route, not becoming liberals. if you had bothered to actually read all of my posts, you would have seen the progression in thought. instead, you took one post completely out of context, went off on a tangent, and then tried to blame me for attempting to sidetrack the thread with the political discussion that you started. now, would you like to continue the original discussion, or just continue making an ass out of yourself?

I promise you that if I had a son or daughter and they punched me for no good reason, slapped me, or tried something along that line out of malicouseness or hate, I PROMISE you there will be a dinner plate like fist going into their gut. Violence that is for no good reason is what needs to be stopped, talk with your child when need be but if they refuse to listen, slap them. I live in an area where parents have taken the "talk to them" approach, THE SCHOOLS ARE WORTHLESS NOW! Gangs are on the rise, violence is on the rise, they REFUSE to do ANYTHING and the ONLY ones who do things are the ones with parents to slap the bejesus out of them when they hear just HALF of what they did in school.
A good slap to the face or a whack to the rear can get a point across to most kids, some you CAN reason with, most you cannot. By all means if you gave me a bill that was to prevent parental abuse and THEN child vs. child abuse on the grounds of abusive parents, abusive defined as parents to throttle their kids for ego reasons or no reason at all: I would support it, but wait! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THOSE BILLS! Yet NO ONE enforces them... I remember back in elementary a cop was talking to us about abuse, he defined abuse and being disciplined:
Abuse: parents, siblings, relatives, or others beat you up, or treat you in malicouse way (which he then explained as verbal abuse, etc.) THAT is abuse.
Discipline: You hit someone, say a parent for no reason, cuss them out, are an all around pain in the rear and give them the middle finger, and then get slapped or whipped, do not go crying to the cops.

Want to stop violence? Get that bill out of here, because it does NOTHING, AND THEN GO BACK UP THE BILLS WE ALREADY HAVE! Child abuse is ALREADY illegal, WE DO NOT NEED MORE BILLS ON IT! Go after the abusive parents for once, not start whooping up on parents who do it because of what their kid did which is justified most of the time.
Children need to be taught the differance between being slapped because they did something VERY wrong and being slapped because their parent is an ego maniac who loves to hit people.

Originally posted by snafu7700

liberal minded. as in, taking the dr spock route, not becoming liberals. if you had bothered to actually read all of my posts, you would have seen the progression in thought. instead, you took one post completely out of context, went off on a tangent, and then tried to blame me for attempting to sidetrack the thread with the political discussion that you started. now, would you like to continue the original discussion, or just continue making an ass out of yourself?

LMAO, progression of thought?? Am I missing something? I completely agreed with your first post, and the first part of your second post. You were the genious who started the political baiting with your "liberal-minded" shot. You were the one who made the connection with the country becoming liberal minded and rising crime and prison population - something I whole heartedly disagree with. You are the one who keeps making comments, and splitting hairs. I simply said leave the politics out of this thread. BTW, I wasn't the one making an ass out of myself.

lol, this left wing hippie wants a whole generation og hard heads and convects

Hey Snafu and Logan, how about taking your arguement to a U2U? You guys are getting the thread off track.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
Hey Snafu and Logan, how about taking your arguement to a U2U? You guys are getting the thread off track.

Agreed, I have nothing more to say anyway. I wasted too much of my time playing with childeren on this one anyway.
Just for the record, as I saw another person state "left wing hippie", this issue is not a position of the left, the right, or any other group of people. This idiot in CA has a bad experience earlier in life and is trying to impose her beliefs on everyone else. THAT is the issue here. I dont know why people are so quick to apply a blanket judgement accross a group of people. On the same line of thinking, I could say "look at all those right wing nut jobs, they just want to beat their kids!" Obviously I know that isn't the case, but sometimes I wish people would actually use their brains before posting in here.

Originally posted by LogansRun

Agreed, I have nothing more to say anyway.

jeez, this guy cracks me up. he has nothing more to say, but then spends another hundred words "setting the record straight."

I wasted too much of my time playing with childeren on this one anyway.

just has to have the last word....who is the child again?

back to the topic at hand: as i mentioned before, we as a nation have become too liberal in the way that we raise our children.....as in
(for those of you who are so blindly faithful to your political affiliation that you are offended by the use of the term "liberal"), we allow them to be too liberated too early, and it gets them in trouble later in life. they are maladjusted, think that if they dont want to work then the state should just go ahead and give them a paycheck anyway, and that there are no consequences for their actions. and do you know why they think this? because we are not allowed to discipline them anymore without some idiot from children's services coming around telling us how to raise our children. i completely agree that anyone who harms a child should never be allowed to have them, and the kids should be taken out of their custody and sent to decent homes....but to that end, we should be punishing the abusers with stiffer penalties that actually do something to keep them from continuing to hurt kids, instead of punishing everyone in an attempt to stop the idiots. basically we have 90% of the population being penalized for the sins of 10% (if that). am i the only one who thinks this is stupidity?

i agree with shakespeare: kill all the lawyers, kill them tonight.