CA Assemblywoman Introduces No Spanking Bill

Forestlady, every child is different. With some kids, the only thing that will keep them from doing something is fear of consequences... a spanking Nothing that leaves a mark, or damages them in any way, just a stinger that gets their attention.

I think this bill seriously oversteps boundaries. Not to mention it is down right useless. I don’t understand the point of it other than to get attention. I really wish they would spend more time trying to help curb real domestic violence rather than wasting time with this. I don’t know anything about this lady, but I can tell she has led a seriously sheltered life if this is her big concern.

Oh, and a little history about why I am such a supporter of spanking.....when I was young, I tried to cross the street when my mom wasn’t looking (because I knew I wasn’t supposed to) she spanked my butt right there in front of everyone. never did it again. The kid up the street did the same thing, but his mom never spanked him. SO he continued to sneak out into the road...again, and again, and again. He got hit by a car. If a spanking is what will keep my kids out of danger and with me for years to come, a swat on the butt it is.

Originally posted by forestlady
I'm not saying at all "don't teach your kid there are consequences", I'm saying there are better ways to do it.

America is way too spank-happy - why do you think we have the highest rate of violent crime in the developed world?

I love your last paragraph ... do you really believe that our rate of crime is directly related to spanking?? Can you support this claim with valid scientific data?

Spanking, if done properly, is an attention getter. if is not a physically abusive thing. If done properly it is one or two light taps on the butt ... I think there is much more of an emotional impact than a physical one.

Corporal punishment is already illegal here in California ... to the extent that any physical punishment that leaves any mark, no matter how small, on a child is considered abuse. I'm wondering how the new law will be enforceable ... if spanking is done lightly and not leaving marks how can you legally discern that it occured and that it was done with malice. How can you differentiate between a playful tap on the butt and a spanking?

When I saw this post, I couldn't help myself but to respond.
This is the story of 2 demon children. They are my girlfriends children and though I do love them, they are a force to be reconed with.
The story starts about 4 years ago when I met her. Through out our relationship they boys have been very ill mannered and extremely disrespectful. They lie with the same enthusiasm and equality as they breath oxygen. Their stealing is unparalleled with Koleptomania however the psychiatrist fails to diagnose it as such.
I did not spank the boys for the first couple of years of our relationship. But, when their behavior was getting completely out of hand, I felt I had to do something. This was not an issue until last year when one of the boys went to school and threatened to Kill a younger girl. On that day, I paddle the boy 2 times. Maybe it might have been a little too hard but so richly deserved. The following day, we were paid a visit by the local Childrens Services. They recorded our statements and told us that they were going to leave the case opened for a period of 30 days and check back to see if there were any other instances. There were no other occurances. After that I decided a new approach was in order, So, I got a book by doctor spock about parenting. I found all of the information to be useless to me because just about everything he talked about, I had already tried and failed. We tried positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, conditioned response, reward programs and the whole works. My conclusions about Dr. Spocks work was that it ancient and way past its time. I personally believe that after the 1970's and the elimination of the " Family Unit ", Dr. Spock should have evaluated the evolution of children and based his work on newer upcoming generations.
In any event, We progressed to writting and chores as punishment.
However, when the child just flat refuses to do anything what do you do? Send them to their room for a timeout? Not bloody likely. The older of the 2 children, which is the worse of the 2, screams and cries uncrontrollably anytime that he is punished. Minding you there has been no physical punishment. For an example, one day the oldest boy stole all of the money from his mothers purse with the exception of 23 cents. To top it off, he went to school to buy some new friends. The school principle seen him giving away the money and started asking questions. That is when she called us and said that he was giving away money and had 7 dollars left. Thats it very interesting considering that he stole over $250. There was a total of $71 recovered after the incedent. So, for the punishment we lined up a large number of chores for him to do. The first chore was for him to pull the grass out of the driveway. This was some that should have taken him only a matter of a couple of days providing that he worked at it. 2 months later, he was still pulling grass out of the driveway. Why? because he would spent the whole day crying and screaming that he was not going to do it. Eventually he got it done after he spent his whole summer vacation out in the driveway.
In addition, that very same boy was put on a writting assignment because he stole a $200 MP3 player from a girl at school. After spending days crying at the top of his lungs because he wasn't going to do it, I felt no choice but to tape his mouth shut so he couldn't scream any more.
The next day, we got another visit from children services asking me why I was trying to KILL the child. Huh?. It was then that I realized that the boy discovered how to use the system against us to get his way. The first thing he did when he got on the school bus to go to school was to tell the bus driver that we tried to kill him the night before. After I had told the childrens services rep what had actually happened, she said that I was lucky that there were no marks on the boy and that the case would remain open for 30 days. ( Continued )

This is when I decided that it was way past time for professional help. We are currently still going through counseling with him and so far to no avail. The behaviors have not changed. But, to this point I am still hopeful.
In conclusion, I have decided in my opinion that government plays to big of a role in child rearing. I also believe that is why todays children are such a Mess.
In response to this post. The woman who is pushing this legislation has no clue about child raising and thus has no position to fight for something she can not even relate to. Just as with all politicians who make laws that they don't research before they pass them.

As a mother that raised two children I am very angry on how the government is getting into the family affairs to dictate how to deal with our children.

Is not their business and families do not need anymore meddling of govenrment in our private lives.

What is next . . . how many times is safe to have sex and regulation of sexual habits.

i think a law should be made were people cant introduce new laws for legislation concerning parenting unless thier parents themselves. too many damn idiots know everything about it but have never done it.
almost like a convicted drug addict being a drug counselor ( and that does happen alot).

What gets me about this bill is that there are already laws about child abuse, so they are talking about the kind and loving spanking, not about the abuse. Where does this woman who doesn't even have children get off? This makes me so mad. You don't reason with a 1 or 2 year old. I remember when my daughter was about to get into a dangerous situation, I told her no, but that didn't work - she kept going for it. The little swat on her diaper was what made her stop and think and realize that she shouldn't be doing that.

All of these politicians are just trying to control our lives down to the very last thing they possibly can. What a bunch of idiots.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I personally think there's a big difference between spanking and hitting and abuse. A tap on the leg or diaper is just going to get their attention, it's not abusive.

I have also observed that most of the bratty children I've seen that do hit and bite people are the ones who's parents tried to reason with them. The ones who were spanked as children didn't grow up to hit others. Again, I'm speaking of spanking and not hitting. There is a difference.

totally agree. i can't stand those little brats who like to scream and shout and bite until they get their way. if you see a kid like that it only tells you one thing, the parents are pushovers or din't get spanked themselves. if you spank a kid on the butt because he/she was wining that they wanted it their way IT'S CALLED PARENTING, NOT ABUSE!! i have a little cousin that used to be just that way, until his mom finally got enough and spanked him. now he's fine. he is still a happy kid, a bit spoiled but much better than b4.

if someone is hitting their kid on the face or head that's abuse. spanking is completely fine. when i was young me and my brother used to get the belt from my dad, and that sucked. the government didn't give birth to a mother's kid, she can spank him on the butt or use a belt (not wipping but spanking with a belt) whenever he/she acts up. it seriously does build character. it maked kids respect their elders. I heard that the WW2 generation was the greatest generation because they showed a lot of respect for everyone world-wide and never demanded much of anyone. well guess what, when they were kids they were beaten bloody so they never did anything stupid again. "spanking builds character" is not just a saying.

and how can a slap on the hand hurt a child? if the kid is reaching for a knife and doesn't know any better and you slap his hand once or twice its teaching him/her that its not a toy. unless you're beating the kid's hand with a hammer, hand slapping is fine.

have u seen those really annoying girls on "Super Sweet 16" that get everything they want? they weren't spanked.

[edit on 01/14/2007 by CrazyPolak]

by Forestlady
Well, I do have to say that I think hitting a kid especially under 3 is child abuse. Why on earth would we want to hit any child? All that does is perpetuate violence. Reasoning with them is much better and if they're too young to understand, you tell them "no" until they get the message.

For some reason I get the feeling that you have never had your own children Forestlady. I'm sorry but you are completely wrong when you said it is not necessary to have children to know how to preach and teach how to be a parent. Being a parent gives you a certain insight you can't obtain from reading a book. You"re right just having a child doesn't automatically make you a good parent. But unless you've done it you have now idea what being a parent is all about.

If you do it correctly spanking should be a deterrent. Just like having nuclear weapons. You can't just give a child a love tap when you spank them. It just will not be effective. I have two sons who have both had their share of spanks, and they are probably the most polite well behaved children I know. It's always, yes sir, yes ma'am, opening doors for ladies.
The mere mention of a spank usually corrects any misbehavior. My sons are 4 years and 91/2 years old. Trying to reason with a 2 year old is just stupid. They are not capable of general reasoning.

This legislator should start spending more time and taxpayer money on issues that really matter.

I guess a year ago I would have thought this would be crazy....But now that I have a 8 month old daughter of my own and even though I hate the government empowering society to rely on it...I do see a reason for this ~if~ the reason is to have a law with more teeth for those who would choose to abuse a child. I don't hit my daughter because she is to young to grasp the punishment... She responds very well to verbal tone change when saying the word no or negative. But I understand those parents who wish to use love taps to express punishment within limits.

give it about 14 more months tsloan....then i think you might see the advantages of a slap on the butt.

Originally posted by MCory1
I agree with Spider, nextguyinline, et al who said a good spanking is a necessary and effective disciplinary measure sometimes. Like others, I was spanked when I was being raised, and it was times when I needed it--you don't set your sister's room on fire and get a time out.

It's been a while, but I really couldn't say it was ever harsh beatings--always "attention grabbers," that made you know when you did something wrong, and I'll be damned if I would've understood my parents' attempts to explain why some things are good and some were bad when I was three. Twenty years later I still don't understand half the time, but oh well...

I always considered myself lucky too; I had friends in middle and high school whose parents not only still physically disciplined them, but used foreign objects to do it. (And FWIW, those friends would always admit that they deserved it too, normally with a sheepish grin before proudly displaying their bruise and saying "but man, was it worth it....."). I don't agree in the slightest that a hair brush should be used as a disciplinary tool, but at the same time it'll catch someone's attention. (Same with a shoe, wooden spoon, remote control, etc.--mind you, these were kids who could've easily taken out their parents in an "honest" fight.)

It'll be interesting to see how this bill and the spanking-in-schools bill that shots linked to fare against each other...

Haha, i would totally fit in the catergory. my parents knew that if we got all this stuff, playstation, pc, etc, that we would be spoiled brats. so everytime they spanked us and we tried to run, my mom would throw her slipper at the back of my head. Haha, i was a lil devil child. but i turned out fine. i am in Honors classes in my highschool. i get straight A's and i'm gonna spank my kids when i have them. i say that we let teachers spank kids. for parents who don't want their kids spanked at skool, sign a form and thye won't be touched. thats how u teach a kid to pay attention, let him watch his best friend get his butt spanked with a ruler by the teacher. i guarantee those kids will be perfect in class for the rest of their lives. i don't care if its elementary school or highschool.

my little brother is the most annoying thing on the planet. i'd like to give him to Leiberman for a month and see what she does. she'd rip his head off.

and as for being hit with foreign objects, here's my list: shoe, belt, wooden spoon, slipper, dog leash, paddle, open hand, i've had my old playstation controller thrown at me, my head was shaved in the middle of the school year, scrap construction wood(thin kind, stung like mad) , newspaper, magazine, metal spoon once. and u know what i say. I DESERVED IT! you don't mouth off to your parents. i was raised the Polish way and made to understand that you don't say that ur parents don't love you when your at the supermaket because they won't get you 8 boxes of fruit rollups. my mom spanked me right there and all the people got smiles on their faces. why? not because America is spank happy, go to Europe and see how kids are raised, some of the most well manored kids ever, they smiled because i got what was coming for me. I NEEDED TO LEARN THAT YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING YOU WANT BEFORE IT HIT ME HARDER THAN A SPANK. if a kid steals an ipod at school and you say, don't do it again, they won't stop. but when they are older he/she will rob the liquor store and get thrown in jail. whats worse? spanking or jail?

personally i'm glad that i was spanked. now i'm not like all those spoiled brats who get everything they want and never have to work for a thing in their life. they turn into cry babies and never get a good job because college was too hard or it was too confusing and the teacher gave too much homewordo you want the government telling you how to live and what you can do? move to China! go to North Korea! (continued)

this is a Democracy and telling us how to raise our own kids,in our homes, that we work for to be able to live in, is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

if you don't want your kid spanked, don't spank them. let us spank ours and leave it at that you over-sensitive twit. if you see a child getting beaten until they bleed or get physically or mentally affected, report it to the police.

When severe pain is caused....it is abuse.

when the kid's hand or butt is a bit reddish for 30 minutes....its called teaching them they don't own the world and that there are consequnces for bad behavior.

Originally posted by forestlady
I'm curuious as to what you think the difference is - can you explain? It seems like it's all the same to me and that it would be to the kid as well, being hit is being hit. Personally, the adults I've met who were well-adjusted weren't spanked as kids. There are lots of other ways to deal with a fussy child - time-outs, giving them a choice and well, hell, let them throw a tantrum and not get anything out of it so they will learn what's effective and what's not.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any childeren of your own? I am 100% against abuse, however there is a time and a place for a spanking. I was spanked many times as a child and it taught me what not to do. I dont have any issues nor ill feelings toward my parents, because even though they enforced consequences for my ill behaved actions, I alwasy knew that they loved me. It was never a question of abuse. I have seeen 2 year olds that are so high strung that they have to be physically restrained in order to keep them from hurting other childeren. And the 2 year old causing all the rucuss had parents that didn't believe in spanking.

Well I'm surprised, and outright disgusted anyone would spank a child
under three.

I support this bill, though in my opinion it does'nt go far enough.

A child is an individual, and just because they are under 18 does not
give you the right to physically hurt them (unless they want to, like
pulling a cactus needle out).


Any kind of hurting of anyone, physically, unless they consent is
wrong, and should be a criminal act on the infringement of the
childs rights.

[edit on 1/19/2007 by iori_komei]

Originally posted by snafu7700

IOW, as we become more and more liberal-minded as a country in our methods of punishing children, our crime rates and prison populations go up. but of course, that's just a coincidence i guess.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by snafu7700]

You know, I have to disagree with you there. I am a huge liberal, but I also am for letting parents parent - this includes spanking. This isn't a liberal issue at all, rather a really messed up person in power who has a personal issue with allowing people to parent their kids in their own way.

On a separate note, you want to know why we have rising crime? I suggest you study up on the destruction of our educational system. Leave the politics out of this thread, umm kay??

couldn't agree with you more Logan

Originally posted by iori_komei
Any kind of hurting anyonme, unless they consent is wrong, and
should be a criminal act on the infringement of the childs rights.

And where do you draw the line at "any kind of hurting"? Because it could very easily be argued that you're hurting a child's feelings by telling them "No", or putting them in time out, or all sorts of other, less "evil" punishments. Psychological abuse is--IMO at least--much more damaging in the long run than physical abuse.

And hey, maybe that's where this generation, the one being raised by stern looks and being allowed to throw tantrums in the middle of a store, will end up, being told that time outs are just too damaging. That they should give the kid exactly what the child wants. (Wouldn't surprise me either--that'd be one hell of a way to get parents to buy more toys and junk food.)

Hopefully, by the time this country gets that bad--and I can see it happening; I remember a time where a kid all but needed to be in the hospital before someone cried abuse--I'll either be dead or senile. Or at least stuck in a nursing home getting a sponge bath by some nurse who looks like a bikini model when I'm on my meds...

Originally posted by LogansRun

On a separate note, you want to know why we have rising crime? I suggest you study up on the destruction of our educational system. Leave the politics out of this thread, umm kay??

lmao.....do you have any idea how asanine that sounds? study up on the destruction of the educational system (by the way i agree with what you are emplying there), but leave the politics out of it? can you say oxymoron?

Originally posted by MCory1
And where do you draw the line at "any kind of hurting"? Because it could very easily be argued that you're hurting a child's feelings by telling them "No", or putting them in time out, or all sorts of other, less "evil" punishments. Psychological abuse is--IMO at least--much more damaging in the long run than physical abuse.

A fair point, well more or less you caught something I forgot.

When I said hurt, I meant physically.