Palestinains have no claim to Israeli territories.

For hundreds of years Israeli territories were under the rule of Roman Emperors. The Israelis have aligned themselves again with Europe and NATO in the war on terror, thus they have effectively reestablised the old link with Rome. Also, they side with the US, the modern day equivalent of ancient Rome, whose dominion extends to Europe or old Rome. Thus, ceding any territories to palestinians is like asking ancient Rome to relinquish its territories.

[edit on 18-1-2007 by Prokurator]

New countries are formed regularly with wars since time began, it usually goes like this...the victor marks the new territory and claims it for themself.

Who cares about who was there in Jeruselum first ? noone, the simple fact is that if the Arab Nations are victorious in the ongoing wars there they will claim it as their own. As far as having rights to land...go tell that to the North American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Mayans, Aztecs, Inca's and the list goes on.

I say who ever is the strongest can lay claim to any land...that is what history has shown and continues to show.

Originally posted by mazzroth
New countries are formed regularly with wars since time began, it usually goes like this...the victor marks the new territory and claims it for themself.

Who cares about who was there in Jeruselum first ? noone, the simple fact is that if the Arab Nations are victorious in the ongoing wars there they will claim it as their own. As far as having rights to land...go tell that to the North American Indians, Australian Aborigines, Mayans, Aztecs, Inca's and the list goes on.

I say who ever is the strongest can lay claim to any land...that is what history has shown and continues to show.

that is correct. the claims of the arab countries that israel is an illegal country is idiotic at best. and if that is true then it must apply to hmmm... lets see... pretty much most countries in the world, that should give back territories once belonged to someone else.

if the palestinians want land they should either fight or negotiate for it. and the land that is now israel is either given to them, bought from the arabs or won by war. israel is a legal country and a member of the UN thus making it recognised and legit.

Whose right is it to claim land or even go fight for it?

Whose right is it to create propaganda to support what the jews have been doing to the Palestinians for over fifty years?

Whose right is it to rule over others?

And why can't people defend themselves against their suppressors without being called terrorists?

George Galloway about the situation in Israel

Ted Pike - The other israel

Secret WMD in Israel

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land

Mossad in Iraq

Sands of Sorrow - Israeli War Criminals Genocide against Palestinians

Isreali Aggression on Palestinians



[edit on 18-1-2007 by buddhaLight]

Theres alot of strong stupidity in the above post apart from the poster directly above this.

Saying that people can keep land after beating the crap out of the nativies is wrong. This stopped being acceptable practice the day the UN and other treaties, orginisations and laws where created.

Since the 1900's i think it was taking land and calling it your own has been illegal.

The Israeli's are actually living on private palestinian property that actually belongs to arabs.

There is a myth going around that the jews purchased the land from the ottoman empire during the 1920's which is alot of crap.

Take a look at this UN census done in 1945 just 2 years before Israels creation and you realise that the arabs actually owned the majority of land :
domino.un.org...

The majority of the private land is actually palestinians in all area's of Gaza, Westbank and Israel.

The populations ratios where also in favour of the palestinians. The following census was done in 1946 which is just 1 year before Israels creation :
www.passia.org...

The UN did not give the jews arab land. The UN/British only gave the jews the white zones on the census which where public land which no individual owned. The jews actually stole private land from the arabs as even stated by the BBC history pages :

Even before the mandate ended, in April and May, Jewish fighters moved to protect, consolidate and widen the territory for the new Jewish state. Often they attacked areas designated for Arabs, and tried to depopulate Arab areas in the planned Jewish sector.

Palestinian refugee camp in Jericho
On April 9, Jewish fighters massacred scores of Palestinian villagers, including old people, women and children, in the West Jerusalem village of Deir Yassin, causing widespread panic and greatly augmenting the flight of Palestinians from their homes across the country.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Jews in Israel are actually living on land which the arabs/palestinians own the actual deeds too.

The palestinians have over 150,000 deeds on actual paper and writen documents proving they own the land that jews are living in.

I'm sure none of these fact make even the slightest bit of difference to most people who hate palestinians just becuase there arabs.

They never said they approved it...

They said it's how it's working...

Which is Undoubtly True

If for example, in my little Hole of Quebec I manage to pull a humongous army and Steamroll the States (Yeah I heard you in the back, I can keep dreaming )

If no one is able to stop me, then who will force me? The UN? Crap if I was able to clear the US no way the UN will do Jack

If I follow your logic, then what about we say that Arafat was the leader of an nonexistent Country? Good imagination he had

There is no Palestinian recognised state, thereby them having terroritory cannot be recognised

At best they can be a minority like the indians in Canada and have their Reserves they manage like they want while still being part of Canada

In this case the palestinians would fall under Israeli Territory

The arab coalition tried SO many times to oust israel and never succeeded, it's normal they now ask the UN to do what they were not able

But in the end, who is crazy enough to attack a Nation like Israel where every citizen did his Mandatory Military Service, has some of the finest weaponry and a couple of Nuclear Warheads?

In Conclusion, It Stops Being Acceptable When You Can Coerce someone, no less no more

That entire area was a British territory after WW1.

The British gave land which created Jordan, Israel and what is supposed to be Palenstein.

The main point is that it was British Lands which were given up.

Before you say 'It was wrong of the British'; the world was different back then and it was accepted and approved.

Originally posted by ferretman2
That entire area was a British territory after WW1.

The British gave land which created Jordan, Israel and what is supposed to be Palenstein.

The main point is that it was British Lands which were given up.

Before you say 'It was wrong of the British'; the world was different back then and it was accepted and approved.

See this is what you fail to understand. The British did not and can not give away private land. The jews stole the private land from the arabs by expelling them from there homes and taking them.

The occupying power can only redistribute public land and no private land.

Take a look at the UN census all the green areas are private land owned by Arabs and it doesnt matter if it is a state or country or anything becuase no private land can ever be taken by an occupying power under any laws and given to another people from another part of the world.

So no you are wrong the british did not own private land becuase the private land was owned by the Arabs.

The UN/British only gave the jews the White zones + the red zones in within a border defined for Isreael. The deal was that all the gree arab zones where to be left alone and remain under arab control. But the jews drove the arabs from there land and took it.

Well from a purely practical perspective, debates about who has the "right" do do what are fantasy anyway. In terms of force - if the Israeli's had the "right" to use force to take the land from the Arabs in the first place, the Arabs certainly have the "right" to use force to get it back.

Which is why I find it hard to get morally outraged about Palestinian attacks on Israel - steal someone's home and kick them out of it, and you can pretty much expect them to come back and try to kill you. Don't expect a lot of sympathy when they do, either.

Thx for the maps iqonx. That goes into the (re)search files.
It's nice to see some people with their eyes open.

But for some it's still difficult to grasp.

Let's say that some group of people attack your country and create their new city's and appartment buildings on top of your, your families and friends land. And they are backed by malicious organisation like the UN and countries like England and the US. Then all their friends from all over the world want to live in your country and they start moving to what was once your land. And after this they determine where you can live. They give you the less intresting peaces of land and they create checkpoints so you cannot travel around as you'ld like to in your own country. Their youth that is in the military of their newly created country beat you in front of your children, women and friends for fifty years on the streets of the land that they determined you can walk on.

What would you do?

Would you go along and sing the songs Be happy and Let it be? Would you like to be embarresed in front of your children. And walk on for the embarresment of tomorrow.

They want you out of your own country.

Can you grasp that?

Or is it the elite and the media that controls your brain? Who tells you the truth?

[edit on 19-1-2007 by buddhaLight]

you know something
this apartheid is not going to last forever
hopefully, it will end peacefully with an apology from israel
however
it may end with bloodshed

Originally posted by iqonx

Take a look at this UN census done in 1945 just 2 years before Israels creation and you realise that the arabs actually owned the majority of land :
domino.un.org...

The majority of the private land is actually palestinians in all area's of Gaza, Westbank and Israel.

Israel denies that claim that there were more Palestinians then Israelis of course. They have their own set of figures.


Its a shame that bank records werent kept like they are today. Would have loved to have a look at Lord Balfour's banking info. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a nice big fat kickback for his declaration.

I believe, Israel after WW2, with the deal the british made deserved that small piece of land to occupy, and setup on.
They needed to understand that they were on THEIR land, and the onus is on them to bend and mould to ensure their direct neighbours would BENEFIT of them being on that land.

So yes, Israel deserve to be .

BUT!

With the last few decades of Haneous acts AGAINST palestine, ON Palestine land.... they lost that right to the land.
They ruined their chances of peace, by putting unbelievable conditions on the palestinian people.

Israel HAD A right to the land, but they dont deserve it NOW!

And they are going to be wiped out. Its a mathematical CERTAINTY!

Agit I sugest you to read the following: (history of israel by BBC)

The return of the jews to the promised land

The birth of israel

Israel builds a nation

Israel in War and peace

Israel and the PLO

Israel and the Intifada

The road to oslo

(thx to iqonx for the source)

Do you really believe Israel deserved to be? Do you really believe the palestinians deserved to be trown out of their houses?

Man, What kind of world are we living in. When people say one group deserves to be slaughtered and the other one deserves to have the land of the slaughtered ones.

It's the same as saying the americans now deserve the land of Iraq. They have also fought for it! And if we go way back in history the americans also have their origins in the middle east.



[edit on 29-1-2007 by buddhaLight]

quote]Originally posted by iqonx

[Theres alot of strong stupidity in the above post apart from the poster directly above this.

Saying that people can keep land after beating the crap out of the nativies is wrong. This stopped being acceptable practice the day the UN and other treaties, orginisations and laws where created.

Since the 1900's i think it was taking land and calling it your own has been illegal.

When it comes to the soverign acts of nations, legality has very little to do with anything. Perhaps you have not been reading the news, or something, for a long time. I suggest you do a short survey to ascertain just how many lands have been appropriated by the stronger countries of the world.

Does the word Nepal ring a bell?

[edit on 29-1-2007 by Astronomer70]