Report: Iran Shoots Down U.S. Spy Drone

Originally posted by WestPoint23
To date there are no confirmed reports of Iran possessing the S-300.

Hmm, then I guess we are to disregard this?:

To make matters worse, Pentagon officials quietly confirmed that Russia has also sold S-300 missiles to Iran.

According to defense intelligence officials, joint Russian/Iranian crews currently man two S-300 units just outside of Tehran and Iranian Army soldiers are now undergoing operational training on the advanced missile system in Moscow.

The Russian missile sale to Iran may alter the defense equation as viewed by the Pentagon and the oil rich Persian Gulf.

There is no question the S-300 missile is a threat to the air forces of U.S. allies such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Japan, and Taiwan. None are equipped with aircraft that can counter the new Russian missile.

[edit on 18-1-2007 by TrueAmerican]

Originally posted by Freeyourmind775
I can say it's more likely that there was an equipment failure and it crashed.

Why is it more likely? They aren't immpossible to shoot down.

I mean, we even have stickers on them in arabic that say "If recovered, bring to nearest american base for reward"

Since the people in iran speak persian languages, not arabic, seems an odd policy. Since there aren't any US bases in Iran, seems irrelevant.

westpoint23
Show me the wreckage, a picture is worth a thousand words, even more so in this case considering it's Iran.

They didn't provide a picture when one of their own UAVs overflew a carrier battle group, and the US government admited it happened, so why should they have to provide pictures now?
Indeed, what do they care if the american public beleives them or not? They are interested in showing the american military command that it can defend itself, to make them think twice about invading.

they did they would not give such a capability (location, time to engage, radar frequency etc...) away

Its possible that they know that the american government already knows that they have these things, and how these things work, etc. Far better to be able to say 'you know we have it, AND can use it properly'.

"There will never be peace and we will never be able to leave a stable country behind if Iran and Syria don't stop stirring up trouble." - AHCivilE

I don't think the people are fighting you because Iran and Syria are spurring them on. Its because they actually don't want you there. They aren't crazy or mad, they don't like you and want you to leave. How can you go to a country, rip its insides out and turn it to #ing hell, kill 100'000 people, then start to even think about blaming it on Iran and Syria. I really don't understand your logic. Its not Irans fault people are dying there, if its anyones, its YOURS. I don't support the murder of innocents and anyone who is involved with this is a disgrace. Do not try and allocate blame elsewhere, take a long hard look at yourself. Pretender.

True American, notice the date on that report, more recent findings suggest the opposite, Iran has expressed interest in the S-300 but Russia has not sold it to Iran, yet. Given the political, military, and defense budget situation after the Clinton term it's kind of hard to believe such a report word for word. 'Anonymous' defense intelligence officials leaking such information and spreading other dis info while later requesting more B-2's and F-22's, among other military projects. Anyway, in my opinion recent reports are far more reliable.

Then there is the fact that Iran has not once, claimed, shown or publicly tested any variant of the S-300. Nor has Russian ever stated that it has sold Iran the S-300. Until verified it is not by any means definite that Iran has operational S-300 units.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They didn't provide a picture when one of their own UAVs overflew a carrier battle group...

Yes they did, they released a small picture and I believe a short clip (of a carrier). BTW, the US government never acknowledge such an incident ever took place, and I still have my doubts as the video was anything but conclusive.

Link
Link

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, what do they care if the american public beleives them or not?

PR value is more import than you think, especially four countries like Iran. Anyway, the burden of proof is upon Iran and those that claim such an incident did indeed occur.

Originally posted by Nygdan
They are interested in showing the american military command that it can defend itself, to make them think twice about invading.

for their sake I certainly hope what they are claiming is false otherwise they are tipping their hand on several fronts. Iran cannot pose a credible deterrence without a nuclear arsenal. As such, all that this is accomplishing is making a possible attack on Iran that much easier if push comes to shove. You don't trade PR points for secrecy/surprise and capability.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Far better to be able to say 'you know we have it, AND can use it properly'.

No it's not, false confidence loses wars, you don't let you enemy know how capable you are until it really matters. That is the difference between mature and developing militaries. The US can spell out in Iranian sand "USA" with impact craters and take pictures of it, but what would be the point? As far as I'm concerned let Iran think they have a credible air defense system.

[edit on 18-1-2007 by WestPoint23]

Well, whether Iran has S-300's or not, an article in Jane's:

IAF claims to be able to deceive Russian S-300

The Israel Air Force (IAF) has announced that it has developed a countermeasures system to the Almaz S-300 (NATO reporting name: 'Grumble') surface-to-air missile system in an effort to confront the prospect that its neighbours will obtain the advanced Russian air-defence system.

A senior Israeli defence source said state-owned companies such as Israel Military Industries (IMI) and the Rafael Armament Development Authority have developed ways to disrupt or deceive the S-300 system. IMI has developed the Improved Tactical Air-Launched Decoy (ITALD), which is designed to deceive the S-300's radar.

Israeli defence sources said Israel acquired subsystems of the S-300 in 1998 from Croatia, which included the radar, missiles and other components. The IAF would not disclose the exact variant of the S-300, nor would it confirm details of the S-300 transfer. However, senior IAF officials said that the air force has been preparing for the prospect that such countries as Egypt, Syria or Iran would obtain the system.

"The Israel Air Force began to prepare for the S-300 in the mid-1990s," a senior air force source told Jane's Defence Weekly. "Delegates visited S-300 sites in Russia and other countries to learn about the system."

However, the origins of the IAF's acquisition of the S-300 system remain unclear. JDW sources believe claims that Croatia might have exported parts of the S-300 missile system to Israel, or at least allowed Israeli experts to familiarise themselves with it on-site in Croatia, may be unfounded.

Yeah well, aren't the origins of all of Israel's nukes unclear, too? Also, would it be safe to say that as soon as Israel layed hands on those 300's, wouldn't they involve the US in reverse engineering them?

The other issue is that if Israel DID get their hands on an S-300, would it not likely be one of the lesser variants, seeing as Russia would not likely give the latest variant to Croatia? Meaning, of course, that the Russians may have updated the radar technology along with the missile, thereby rendering IAF (or US) defense against it useless or less effective.

I suppose we are talking about the latest stuff here, so much of the technology, and its countermeasures, are likely classified?

The US (not quite sure about the Israelis) would not have too much difficulty taking out Iranian S-300 sites. A combination of stand off weapons, EW assets, and LO platforms would overwhelm even the S-300. BTW, the US is said to have also gotten some S-300PMU's circa 2004 via Croatia as well.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yes they did [provide pics in other incident]

Ah. Well.

the US government never acknowledge such an incident ever took place,

I could've sworn that they said around that time that a UAV was spotted over a group and chased off by US jets.

Anyway, the burden of proof is upon Iran and those that claim such an incident did indeed occur.

The burden of proof to convince us, but I am saying, what do they care if the public is convinced, the public won't realize the rammifications of it anyway, but the military will.
And after all, what does it matter if the public is scared of iran? The iranians probably realize that that really doesn't matter, we don't have any final influence on the matter, especially in the iranian perception, I would think.

As far as I'm concerned let Iran think they have a credible air defense system.

Indeed and this may be why the military isn't quick to squash the rumours. Hell, it'd make some sense to send in uav's and let them get shot down, to let them become over confident.

[edit on 19-1-2007 by Nygdan]