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Australian Politics - Coalition vs Labor

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posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 12:52 AM
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Since there is no section for it i thought i would start a topic for Australian Politics, because from experience i know there is a fair few Aussies on here.

In the shadow of the upcoming election, what are your thoughts on the 2 major parties?

I personally am over the moon that Kevin Rudd has taken over from Beazley in Labor. They are my pick for the next election and i intend to vote to make it stick.

John Howard is still going strong after 10 years in Kirabilli house, but how much longer will he be around? If he wins this next election i have the fear that he may stand down as PM... leaving us with slimeball Costello.

IMHO, we can't win with the Liberals.

So which way do you swing?




posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 05:36 PM
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Hey fooff,

I WANT A BETTER DEAL FOR YOUNG PEOPLE...got 3 young people in my life !!! 1 in the army (financially well off lives in Townsville) 2 others struggling to make ends meet, living with us.

I am also glad that Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard have managed to take over leadership of the Australian Labor Party. I think Beazley was just way too soft and did not exude any confidence, he became a detriment to the party.

I do not like John Howard, the Abbott & Costello show, Amanda Flintstone nor any of the other Liberal Party pollies. They work for the rich elitists in our society and just keep screwing the little man further into debt.

I am particularly concerned about rising interest rates that have managed to bring a halt to the real estate market. We just took our house of the market (2.5 yrs..no buyers). Young couples can not afford houses now and that sucks...rental accommmodation is also scarce. How do they expect young people to make a go at life and have families ???

ANSWER: They do not want them to have families because the NWO wants to cut the global population

The IR laws are just way out of line and my youngest gets contract work through an agency. They offer 3 weeks casual work and then he gets 2 days if he is lucky. That just pees me off that young people are getting ripped off like this. Lots of young people on the Central Coast are listed with agencies and rely on contract work, not enough permanent work here. That is psychologically bad fo them, they feel and it does look like they have no future prospects. Get this - the youngest has a permanent job at Supercheap Auto, he gets 1 shift a fortnight...pays tax like everyone else. Got a job, paying taxes, got no money and can't even afford petrol...what is wrong with this picture ??? He always makes himself available for contract work but this is not regular either. They just ring up when they are short of manpower "Who can we get to fill in today?" He is actively seeking more stable employment.

I am out of work because I had to have surgery for cancer and then chemo, we are back to one wage now and based on my earnings for the last financial year (only worked 6 mths of it) my son can not even get any assistance from Centrelink. We support him when he needs money for petrol and just so he has a few bucks in his wallet. He has paid taxes for the last three years as a contractor and I feel that he has earned the right
to be given a bit of assistance...maybe even a health care card ?? just to make it a little easier financially.

I feel that the Liberal Party does not care about young people and those from lower socio economic backgrounds/areas, or even migrants. It's all lip service. Young people who are eligible to vote need to think seriously about who they want to look after their financial future.

They go on about employment figures being down...think about this.
1 shift per fortnight is classified as being employed and that makes the figures look good doesn't it ? The Liberal Party a doing a great job aren't they ? THESE ARE NOT REAL JOBS !!! One can not sustain a basic lifestyleunless theyare dpenedent on their parents and family.
People needs to wake up and see how they manipulate the stats

They also need to look at our relationship with the US and the potential for draft in the military and being sent to a war (not of our making). The Liberal Party is happt to be a patsy for the US government and the NWO.
I and others want our troops home, but looks like we are doomed to suffer casualties (eldest going to Iraq -rotation)

I have stated on this forum before that I do not always vote but I will be casting a vote in the next election for the Australian Labor Party.

I do not like the devil I know...going to give the devil I don't a chance.

cheers matey




[edit on 17-1-2007 by resistancia]

[edit on 17-1-2007 by resistancia]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 11:12 PM
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Australian Politics.....
Crikey mate..

Beazley HAD to go. Had he of remained, howard would of remained. its as simple as that, Rudd and Gillard look the goods to me ( 12th man accent )
But history shows the new guy on the block in opposition always has a spike in approval as soon as he takes over.

The honeymoons over, the years starting to eveantuate.. and I still havent seen RUDD do anything thats going to make me stroke my chin at and say

''hmmm, that could work''

I hope he does soon, because Howard and Costello have a stranglehold at the moment. Unfortunately, people WANT howard out. They dont want this war, they dont want IR laws and this new education based out comes is a joke.

But, the Australian people are smart.

You wont elect someone just because you hate the man, and his idea's.

Australia's in a great position, we have a major source of resources, lots of room to expand, and a growing population thats keen on hard work, investment and buying.

Bring the wrong person in, to mess up trade with asia, to cause inflation.. and our way of life gets harder, our mining industry falters.. WA goes BUST.. big time.
And when WA earns more than 50% of Australias income, you dont want the mining sector in WA to go bust.

But Back to politics.

Howard, is one of the best politicans I have ever seen.. yes.. he is better than bush.
That man can lie straight to your face, twist his answer in so many different ways that by the time youve stopped scratching your head and realised he covered his a55, the debate was long gone and out of peoples minds.

Costello, Im not sure of. Howard has kept him under wraps so much, that the Aussie public know nothing of him, as a person. Accept that he's a whining bug'r when friends dont make good on promises.. and that he's also willing to bend over, take it up the tail pipe when they dont notice him crying about it..

He's not man enough to be the leader of Aus.

If I could vote, I wouldnt know which way to go atm.

Rudd looks untouched by the Global curroption plauging Howard
Rudds new, he's young, he's willing and he seems more in touch with regular aussies.
Howard, has a good history of keeping australians in work, earning money, and buying goods for a high quality of life.
Howard lies, he deceives, he's a impressionable puppet willing to sacrifice his country, for his personal gain.
Howard makes up BS rules and policies that hurt Australia, just so his government can 'appear' that much better to foreign nations.

thats my view of this great broad land of aus.
the luckiest country on the planet!



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 06:53 AM
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How naive are you? Rudd was a Latham supporter need I say more. The dream team oh my god what a laugh that is. Dumb and dumber

Give me John Howard any day and he is far from a puppet as you so quaintly put it. Yes, there are things he does that I do not agree with but that goes for any politician not just Howard.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 03:30 AM
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I'm not a fan of the two party system we have here in Australia, although yes, there are other parties. They either seem to be inefectual or swallowed up by Liberal or Labour.

I often think that people are just too dumb or lazy to look for an alternative sometimes, the attitude of better the Devil you know seems to be the norm.

I guess the old saying is true: " Do what you've always done and you'll get what you've always got"



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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What about Mark Lathaim (spelling?) he's an angry old man.... went a bit pyscho after he was replaced by Beazley...



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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What about Mark Lathaim (spelling?) he's an angry old man.... went a bit pyscho after he was replaced by Beazley...



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by iCEdTenG
What about Mark Lathaim (spelling?) he's an angry old man.... went a bit pyscho after he was replaced by Beazley...


Not sure if I'd call Latham old. He certainly had some anger management issues though.

Although I think that a few of his outbursts were caused by the media following his every move, including his family and he was pretty ill there at one time, not sure what the illness was now.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 01:35 AM
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I'm surprised that anyone who's had the nous to find their way to ATS would entertain the illusion that ANY Aussie politician is able to make his/her own decisions.

Australia is controlled by the US and Aussie-based zionists, via Tel Aviv.

Howard has to sit there and listen to the populace bleating and whining about 'his' GST and labour laws and decision to support the US in Iraq, etc. when in fact Howard played no part in any such decisions. He merely gets to play a 'speaking role'. The script of course, is written by the true rulers of Australia.

I guess ignorance IS bliss and it must BE bliss to still believe that Australian politicians determine the future of Australia and its people.

No Aussie Prime Minister (or politician) is anything other than a puppet. If he causes the slightest problem for the US/Zionist puppet-masters, he's removed, ala Gough Whitlam or Harold Holt or, more recently, Latham.

That's it. Don't waste your time fantasising about new brooms sweeping clean in the Oz political arena. It won't happen.

For example, I clearly remember the US politician who came out to Oz in the 90s and got himself on virtually every current-affairs programme, including ABC. This was after he'd TOLD Aussie politicians and the Prime Minister, how it would be.

" You cannot afford your current welfare costs " he said in the tone of international bank manager. " You cannot afford your current levels of unemployment assistance, nor payments to all those single parents, nor the soon to hit wave of aged-pensioners. You MUST cut your welfare spending ! "

Seriously.

And he fully expected Australians to heed him as slavishly as had Aussie politicians.

As I prepared dinner and watched this UNITED STATES politician lecturing AUSTRALIANS on THEIR (not his) spending, I wondered to myself: ' Who the hell are YOU? Who let YOU in? How DARE you presume to tell Aussies what they can and cannot do with their OWN money? '

But of course, it wasn't long before Aussie politicians began meekly conforming with the DEMANDS of this US pollie.

So it doesn't matter which talking-head we have as 'Prime Minister', whether it be Hawke or Keating or Howard or whomever. They just quote according to the script that's handed them.

We should REALLY save ourselves a bundle and dispense with the lot of them. Sell Kiribili House and rent it and the State and Federal Parliament buildings out to the zionists who ACTUALLY dictate terms in Australia.

Anyone who imagines a 'change of party' might mean a fairer deal for Aussies is dreaming.

The politicians know that. They know they're no more than well-paid yes-men for those who really call the shots.

And a change of party will NOT result in a change of zionist puppet-masters. All it will mean is the ILLUSION of a 'change'. And the Sheepies are reassured by the ILLUSION of change. Then the bleating and whining and hoping and protesting begin all over again.

The zionists nod sagely. Toss the Sheepies a bone. Take their money. And let them blame home-grown villains.

I guess in the final analysis, we should be GRATEFUL, huh, that the zionists are still catering to the Aussie wish to have Aussie politicians.

After all, any time they have a mind to, the zionists can sweep all those Lucky Country fantasies aside and publicly install the REAL rulers: themselves.

So enjoy the illusion of having 'Aussie' politicians while you can. That little indulgence might be removed before much longer.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 02:23 AM
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I agree with what you say to an extent, but if you don't at the very least awaken people into thinking about change, nothing will change it all!

Yes of course Australia is run from outside interests, there's nothing new there but we can't live with a defeatist attitude either, otherwise we're dare I say it........defeated.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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Dock6, I do have to say, MEH

I dont agree with you about the zionists...

Anyways.

I say Liberal all the way.

John Howard is the best PM we've ever had. And sure you can have your little whinge about the Industrial Relations changes, But they're going to be better for Australia overall. And you can have a whinge aboutt he fair pay commision... but it raised the minumum wage by about 22% i think or something over the next few years, etc.

And surely, if Australians didn't want the IR laws, why did they vote for john Howard int he first place?

He got a resounding victory.


Let me just say that a vote for the Australian Labout Party wil be a vote for an i may be over-exaggerating here... ANARCHY.

seriously. What is it that The austrailian Labour party has said they are going to do if they win the election?

get rid of the GST? get rid of the IR laws? (which i believe has been made impossible to do now)

look."resistancia" i can feel your pain but if 1 shift of work per fortnight is not doing your son right. Then he needs to find himself a real job. there are real jobs you know. there are employers crying for people. does he have skills? if not get him trained. There are always apprenticeships/traineeships, short courses, etc.

If 1 shift a fortnight is classified as a job and that is through a labour hire agency, get him away from that agency and onto different agencies. Get him to go to a few of them. Some aganecies aren't that good and wont follow you up. others are different and help you out tremendously.

There's nothing better than when you are looking for a job, and agencies are ringing you up a few times a day suggesting this job or that and booking you interviews.

But i just want to tell you that what your sons are going through in relations to jobs are not Johny howards fault, Nor are they due to the Industrial Relations laws.

If he's not getting enough cash via that 1 shift every fortnight pay packet as i think we both know he wont be. get him onto centrelink, looking for a job full time with job agencies too. a decent resume. trust me. it'll work out better than his current work plan.


But now back on to topic.

Sure, Kevin Rudd is a better leader than Kim Beazley. But is he a better Leader than John Howard? And is he going to act like the rest of the liberals and try to reverse all of the policies that have been put in to play today when he gets elected? or instead of moving Australia backwards, will he move australia forwards?

From the australian labour party's website
www.alp.org.au...



"Labor's Solution to the Water Crisis
"A National Water Summit should be held as soon as practicably possible. It should involve all sides of politics, both Federal and State.

"Collectively, we must work to eliminate the bureaucratic stumbling blocks that have resulted in little or no real progress on water reform. We must be engaged in investigating real solutions to our continuing water crisis."



A $10 BILLION dollar investment into water infrastructure by the Liberal Party and the plan they have with it such as diverting tens of thousands of gigalitres of water each year from far north queensland instead of having that water run off into the ocean... etc, [insert more plans here]

John Howards Water Plan


thats just one example.

You know what really gets me going though. It's the fact that John Howard and the Liberal Party were voted to continue leading Australia back in the year 2000 when everyone knew that a vote for John Howard and the Liberal Party was a vote for a go ahead with the introduction of the GST and a reduction in all the different wacky tax prices there were on everything else. BUT what does the labour party who were elected in the Australian states do? They introduce the GST but keep the other taxes. And the Liberals are still fighting them and having to threaten them with no federal money for the states that dont follow in removing those other taxes that every australian voter voted for.

Then the spin artists that are the Labour Party announce that taxes are too high under a federal liberal Government.

Taht really bites my boat.


Yeah sure i wouldn't want little baby crying costello so become the PM in any future, but i really dont think John Howard will retire while PM and give it up to Costello especially after the act he pulled last time.


[edit on 3-2-2007 by DaRAGE]

[edit on 3-2-2007 by DaRAGE]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 07:37 PM
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Da rage,

My son has permanent postion with a nation wide auto spares & parts retailer...1 shift per week. WooHoo !!! Big farkin deal !!!

He tries to supplement with recruiting agencies who rip off young people.

Really young people do not have the experience or skills to bargain and wrangle with employers.

Young people put with crap just to have a job....any job. Exploited to the max


[edit on 4-2-2007 by resistancia]



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 02:51 AM
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What i learnt from Economics comes into play here


There is a big difference between EMPLOYED and ADEQUATELY EMPLOYED.

Yes, Howard can brag about his employment rate, but a portion of that is made up of those who are working far less hours than they want to.

Once you get at least 1 hour a week you are put on the list as 'employed'. Unless you work more than at least 20 hours a week, i don't think you should be counted in the 'employment' rate.

I used to work at a large supermarket chain in Australia, and they had around 60 casual teenage employees on the books (15 - 18yrs old). Each one of them only got between 3 to 6 hours a week... should that really count to our employment rate when they work one shift a week?

Perhaps 2 different measurements could be used to get a fairer outlook.

With all that being said, glad to see some Liberal supporters coming in to place their side of the debate.


[edit on 5-2-2007 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 07:41 AM
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Woohoo Johny Howard just had an interview on Lateline.

Yet again he is a kick ass Prime Minister who has my vote.

Anyways,


I used to work at a large supermarket chain in Australia, and they had around 60 casual teenage employees on the books (15 - 18yrs old). Each one of them only got between 3 to 6 hours a week... should that really count to our employment rate when they work one shift a week?


It's always been the case. These 15 - 18 year old would be classified under casual employees or part time employees and more often than not, they're still students.

let me ask. How would you classify someone who worked? no matter how many hours they worked. If you are working for someone and they are paying you money (an employer pays people to work for them), then you are en employee as an employer is employing you thus you are employed.

Casual, part time, full time. these have allways been there. If you're casual there is no job security. this has always been the case. I used to work for safeway when i was younger. Casual night time employee. If they needed me i worked. If they needed me and i didn't want to work, i didn't work. Whether they then thought i was an unreliable employee and called me less often than usual was their choice. As it has always been.

IF a large supermarket hires 60 casual/part time employees working one shift a week and they stay there continuously. That is up to them. If the supermarket is constantly looking for new employees as their young employees leave constantly, that is also up to them.


My son has permanent postion with a nation wide auto spares & parts retailer...1 shift per week. WooHoo !!! Big farkin deal !!!

Really young people do not have the experience or skills to bargain and wrangle with employers.

Young people put with crap just to have a job....any job. Exploited to the max


One shift per week may be permanent but it is permanent part time. Not permanent full time employment as full time employment is 38 hours per week.

And yes young people dont have great skills to bargain and wrangle with employers, that is true. He'll im 23 and i dont have those great skills either.

So how are these young people getting exploited by employers have to do with Johny Howards industrial Relations laws that have been introduced compared to when they weren't introduced. I'd like to see an example.

Thought so... Thank you very much! ;-P



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by DaRAGE

So how are these young people getting exploited by employers have to do with Johny Howards industrial Relations laws that have been introduced compared to when they weren't introduced. I'd like to see an example.

Thought so... Thank you very much! ;-P


What do you mean thought so ??? Don't be such a pompous arse. There really is no need to try and give the impression you are so cock sure of yourself...

John Howard's IR laws make it easy to exploit the young (and throw new Australians into the mix while we're at it due to language barriers and cultural differences) because they need jobs and any crappy job is better than none. These people are very exploitable and lack bargaining power as I mentioned before.

I can only provide experiences from young people I know on the coast who have a permanent job (my son's job is PERMANENT thankyou) with perhaps 8 hours max per week. These people have to then go and register for extra work with Manpower, Ready Workforce or Chandler McLeod and others who call up and expect you to arrive in the next half hour. They promise considerably more shifts then call after one day's work and tell the keen young person they are no longer required. They can not run cars, pay insurances, pay board or maintain a decent lifestyle unless they get extra work. Do you really think that is fair ? I have experienced the disappointment and stress of a person existing like this.

These on call labour hire agencies have popped up like mushrooms and they specialise in cheap quick exploitable grist for the mill.

How about 1 shift per week (from 10.30 till 3.00) and then having to spend $7.00 each way on a bus ? Hardly worth it I reckon but some of these people have a good work ethic and are being treated like shyte. As soon as they are too old to be classified as juniors they are shafted because pay rates go up. Then they are back on the job seeking treadmill again.

Since my intial post in this thread, my son has managed to pick up more hours (only because another young person was fired).

At the end of the day it is all about wages and age.

We are all exploitable but it is soooo easy peasy to ride roughshod over the very social groups who can least defend themselves.

I gather that you are very comfortably off and have a good job that gives you all the benefits and then some, as you obviously think little Johnny Bumsuck is doing a great job. And yes, the employment figures look good....lots of people have "jobs"...what a laugh !!! That's fantastic and you are entitled to your opinion. As I am entitled to mine.

You must be very proud of a leader who "brown noses" the US President and supports a bogus WOT. A PM who perperuates the lie of the "terrorist nightmare".

I am not interested in a p&ssing competition with you...I merely posted my opinion based on the experience of young people I know.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 01:10 AM
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Short post here. Just keep it civil guys and girls
I know politics can be a heated debate, especially this close to election time, but there is no need to be rude to one another.

Oh, and about the teenagers being under employed for a long time... not in my parents day according to them, nor in my grandparent's day.

They both say it all the time when i mention work, that when they left school they could basically take their pick of jobs in the local community, and they usually worked longer days than most people do now. When my mother left school she worked in the local corner shop for mostly 10 hour days.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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Fooffstar,

Yeah...I am old enough to remember how things were too, and it is much worse for young people. I know it is bad where you live too...I have friends with young people the same age as my youngest sons living near Port and they can't get jobs unless they move away from the town.

With all that growth up in that neck of the woods you'd think there would be more jobs for fit young people (a lot of oldies up there and others who can't work).

Older people and their experience plus memories = primary source of evidence.


take care
res



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by resistancia
Fooffstar,

Yeah...I am old enough to remember how things were too, and it is much worse for young people. I know it is bad where you live too...I have friends with young people the same age as my youngest sons living near Port and they can't get jobs unless they move away from the town.

With all that growth up in that neck of the woods you'd think there would be more jobs for fit young people (a lot of oldies up there and others who can't work).

Older people and their experience plus memories = primary source of evidence.


take care
res



You've got all that right, alright.


Without trying to blow my own trumpet, my resume is fairly impressive, and out of the 20 or so that i gave to businesses around town (last time... i've had to do resume runs a few times a year since i finished school), i got 4 replies. 2 were to tell me they just didn't have any positions vacant, 1 was for an interview (which ended up a 20 person group interview (4 x 20 person interviews for ONE job), that i didn't succeed at and the last one to say they'll keep my resume on file for future reference.

Kind of straying off topic with this rant, but just saying that it is damn hard to get a job anywhere these days, especially in this part of the country. When you do get one (which i was eventually lucky enough to do), you still don't get enough ours to earn as much as you were getting for doing nothing on unemployment benefits!!!



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 02:06 AM
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We got a tone of vacant mining/trade positions over here in WA and they pay very well (>$1500). Only prob is there's no rental houses available and the median house price is like >$500,000. I blame it on local government, the council members won't re-zone land unless they get bribed. What you end up with is a whole lot of non-residential land and everyone fighting over what little residential is available.



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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The politicians in this whole world are corrupt and care nought about the average Joe Bloggs.

Housing is bad in US too...we always follow the trend displayed there.
(We really are an American state we have not been officially told yet)

I strongly suspect as allies of the USA, are going
with them.




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