Saddam Hussein arrested

So all in all, the argument against America is that we should have left Saddam in power so the next time he had indigestion and was in a bad mood he could gas 200,000 Kurds like he did in the early 80's.

You know at least Jakomo (whom i frequently disagree with) admitted that it's good to have Hussein off the streets. Some of you are so sick, twisted, and deluded that you honestly think this guy was an innocent man targeted by americans with nothing else to do.

Oh Fulcrum, I like how in one post you write that China, India, and Russia are the only good powers left. Then a few pages later you post that the Russians would have brutally beaten the hell out of a Prisoner of War. So i guess - according to your own words - that you condone the beating to death of a prisoner like Saddam Hussein since you believe the Russians are good.

EDITed to fix typo.

[Edited on 12-15-2003 by Djarums]

Here is the Fulcrum logic:



Everything is OK as long as America doesn't do it.

To all you crybabies out there wringing your hands and whining about what a raw deal poor ol' Sodamn Insane got .......BOO HOO

Wither or not he had WMD or not dont really matter now....we kicked his ***, get over it and move on. I am sure there will be some other psychopathic rapists and murderers for you to admire. The ONLY ones I feel for are the troops doing the job and the poor bastards that lived under that madman for so many years.

I will give you all your whining gripes..... so what. Sure Bush is a criminal but sadam is worse, Bush we can vote out, I am sure the Iraqis would have loved that right.

At the WORST this is a case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Would we have gone after him without the oil?? Probley not, but I am sure the famlies of those he killed are DAMNED happy that oil is there. I am not siding with the Bush zombies I think the man is a liar and a thief just like all the rest, name me an HONEST politicion in not just our country but in ANY of your countries...... If you named one you are a liar or VERY deluded.

I am a Libertarion and do not belive in interfering in another countries affairs but since we are sticking our noses in EVERYBODYS anyway......Why not

The bottom line is ....Who cares why he did it We saved a bunch of people from a madman and this next election we can get rid of our idiot and vote in a Libertarion who will keep us minding our own bussiness and out of everyones elses wars.

But the next time some madman attacks you dont come crying to the great satan


[Edited on 15-12-2003 by Amuk]

Does anyone here feel safer now that Saddam is captured? Does it even matter in your daily lives?

NO!

You're not any safer (maybe even more at risk) and in the final analysis, it really doesn't matter!

Originally posted by Fry2
Here is the Fulcrum logic:



Everything is OK as long as America doesn't do it.

Well,

Basicly..

Because:

You Americans claim to be defenders of justice, freedom and god.

Somebody being murdered/executed isnt justice.

Freedom isnt being a prisoner of anykind.

God doesnt kill people and make wars.

You have these values that you supposedly defend, yet you break all the time your own rules.

You destroy the things that you are supposed to uphold.



That is why.

Originally posted by Colonel
Does anyone here feel safer now that Saddam is captured? Does it even matter in your daily lives?

NO!

You're not any safer (maybe even more at risk) and in the final analysis, it really doesn't matter!

Dude...I didn't feel any safer under Clinton and hell, 9/11 hadn't even occured!
Your point?
Can the Democrats really make us any safer if and when they get back to the White House?!? NO!!


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by FULCRUM You Americans claim to be defenders of justice, freedom and god.

Not us... our "leaders".

Somebody being murdered/executed isnt justice.

Who's that? Another murderer? Depends on you're idea of justice.

Freedom isnt being a prisoner of anykind.

So we should let drug dealers do what they like? "Anykind" is a broad brush-stroke.

God doesnt kill people and make wars.

History is against you here. Most wars have been fought "in the name of God" in one way or another.

FULLCRUM! YOU ARE AN IDIOT! I cannot be civil anymore with you! I'm sorry, you are such a blithering ignorant MORON that it amazes me! You think it's WRONG to imprison people who murder THOUSANDS of people???? CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVE! We ARE defending freedom and justice by shutting your fricking IDOL away for GOOD! THIS IS SAVING FUTURE LIVES! You know what?? Since you are SO convicted about defending saddam, why don't you act on your words and go JOIN the fight against us, or keep your role model company as his CELL MATE! NONE of what you say holds anything CLOSE to merit!

Originally posted by mOjOm
I don't see the problem with his eyes. The small dots in the center which are faint red is normal to see. It's just Red Eye but since he's not faced directly toward us it's not as vivid. The brown around that seems to be ok too, unless he's supposed to have Blue eyes or something.

You wanna see crazy eyes you should see the Red Eye my g/f has in pictures. Even with functions like Red Eye Reduction and stuff she still always has Superman Lazer Eye Beams coming from her eyes.

Honestly, I think Husseins eyes look ok. In need of a nap possibly but that's about it IMO.

maybe yor gf is posessed? just a thought

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Not us... our "leaders".

Well ok, but you did select him.. (almost..)
He (they..) is/are the voice of US.

Who's that? Another murderer? Depends on you're idea of justice.

Even if another murderer.
And it doesnt depend on anything, killing is always bad and unjust thing to do.

So we should let drug dealers do what they like? "Anykind" is a broad brush-stroke.

Well at least you shouldnt invade foreign nations and hold their citizens and leaders as hostages..

History is against you here. Most wars have been fought "in the name of God" in one way or another.

Well yes, this is true.
But is it right?
And if god does actually exist does he give you a tap on a shoulder over this, or will he send you to hell?
For killing in his name..
To me and i would think that to most war seems as doings of devil rather than god.

Does anyone here feel safer now that Saddam is captured? Does it even matter in your daily lives?

For me? not a bit. But I bet it matters to the Iraqis. I couldnt care less personaly. I live in the backwoods of Arkansas and I dont feel threatend by any of it. If we could mind our own bussiness we would not be in this mess.......BUT.......the bottom line is one less madman in the world ...Whats the down side? Other than to the familes of our troops? Dont get me wrong I think we should pull ALL our troops back behind our borders and ONLY use them if WE are attacked. Let them slaughter each other..... who cares. I just cant understand why seemingly sane people would be so upset over his capture. The worst day since they dropped the atomic bomb....JEEEEZZZZ give me a freaking break

And it doesnt depend on anything, killing is always bad and unjust thing to do

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard are you telling me if some was trying to harm your family you would not shoot them? or are one of those bleeding hearts that think you should be more concerened with not brusing the poor little psycho than saving your family. Break into my house and I will blow a hole big enough in you to stick a basketball in and I wont wait to see WHAT you intend do.

You Americans claim to be defenders of justice, freedom and god.

I don't even know where to begin with this.
Justice? As S.O. just mentioned that would depend on what you consider justice. If you were, in fact, referring to the death penalty then we will have to agree to disagree. I support it fully as long as there is no doubt of guilt. I admit it has been flawed here and needs stricter guidelines but overall it's more efficient and at times effective.

Freedom? Yep, sometimes it's an additional benefit to what we do in our interests. Contrary to your beliefs we have not fought any major wars of conquest in our history. We aren't controlling Germany or Japan are we? So, yeah, we champion freedom more than some I guess.

God? #!!! Did Jim Baker get appointed president and I missed it!?!?!?!?
Where did you ever get the idea that "us Americans"were championing God!?!?!? That's just scary. You need to get out more.

Actually you still occupy Japan and Germany.

You just call 'em' as military bases.
(Several another nations also..)

And what was Korea and Vietnam if not fully invasion wars?



Also if you are not fighting for god..

What is this all God bless USA BS?



[Edited on 15-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

We are in Japan and Germany by request and treaty.
Korea and Vietnam were hardly wars of conquest. They were wars of bailing someones ass out. Why the hell would we want to own Korea or Vietnam? Think about it.

US bases in Okinawa..

All Okinawans want you hell out.

Yet you sit on you asses there..

Why is that?

If they want you out, you are not wellcome.

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by Colonel
Does anyone here feel safer now that Saddam is captured? Does it even matter in your daily lives?

NO!

You're not any safer (maybe even more at risk) and in the final analysis, it really doesn't matter!

Dude...I didn't feel any safer under Clinton and hell, 9/11 hadn't even occured!

Your point?
Can the Democrats really make us any safer if and when they get back to the White House?!? NO!!


regards
seekerof

i agree. after all wasnt it clinton who down sized the military? not a good thing. the US needs to have the strongest, most well equipted military in the world so any threat can be meat and crushed.

SimpleTruth: You wrote about iraqbodycount.net :
"They are limp-wristed neo hippies. How come all these sources claim all these deaths, but only on the internet, and NOT on television. Like ABC, NBC, Fox and so on."

Check it out.

www.iraqbodycount.net...

After they list their 30+ sources, (including Associated Press, Reuters, Washington Post, London Times, London Telegraph, New York Times, etc), here's the quote.

"For a source to be considered acceptable to this project it must comply with the following standards: (1) site updated at least daily; (2) all stories separately archived on the site, with a unique url (see Note 1 below); (3) source widely cited or referenced by other sources; (4) English Language site; (5) fully public (preferably free) web-access.

The project relies on the professional rigour of the approved reporting agencies. It is assumed that any agency that has attained a respected international status operates its own rigorous checks before publishing items (including, where possible, eye-witness and confidential sources). By requiring that two independent agencies publish a report before we are willing to add it to the count, we are premising our own count on the self-correcting nature of the increasingly inter-connected international media network."

For limp-wristed neohippies, they certainly do their homework.

"Wow, sounds like you follow some very accurate numbers. Are you so daft to think that when we captured Baghdad, all those people were celebrating and thanking our troops if THOUSANDS were killed in battle?"

Er, refresh my memory, when did this celebrating happen? You mean the shots that CNN and ABC and FOX and the US networks had, the tight shots of sparse crowds of celebrating Iraqis in the first few days of the liberation, before it became an occupation? I think they're probably either looking for jobs or sitting around dusting off their Kalashnikovs now.

"And back to WMD's. Go ahead. Deny that he EVER had them! I want to see you straight out DENY that saddam ever had chemical weapons and NEVER used them. Blow my mind on how ignorant you are of recent history."

Saddam had no chemical or biological weapons in recent history. I NEVER said he never had any, of course he did, he bought them off the US and Russia and Germany and France and the UK to kill Iranians more effectively. But he had none left after 12 years of sanctions and losing a war... Do you think they can just hide a chemical weapons facility? Hide a whole bunch of 20 gallon mustard gas kegs in a restaurant storeroom? These are complicated weapons and viruses that need constant monitoring and security up the wazoo just to make sure no friendlies inadvertently cause outbreaks.

"Haha, and you say....oh there may be terrorist in Iraq now, but not BEFORE we invaded. Nice logic!"

Sounds entirely logical to me. Again, I never said there were no terrorists, I said there was no Al Qaeda. But, THERE ARE MORE TERRORISTS IN IRAQ NOW, WITH U.S. SOLDIERS OCCUPYING IT, THEN THERE WERE IN IRAQ BEFORE. And they have a much easier time finding American citizens to kill. Refute that.

"According to people who share your view points, saddam and al qaeda hated each other. So why would terrorists give a rats (c) if we whooped saddam? Huh? Come on. Think about it. They are present there, and they have camps there as found by special ops. But, I give you the floor, and waiting for your denial."

Al Qaeda and Saddam hated each other. Al Qaeda is all for ultra-religious Islamic states (they even gave Saudi Arabia some trouble for being so lax) and Iraq was one of the most Westernized Arabic states around, very secular.

And what camps? Ansar Islam in the North? It was an anti-Saddam terrorist enclave.

And if Al Qaeda is there, it's because it's easier to cross the border of Iraq and get into the country to blow up Americans than it is to get across the Atlantic or Pacific. It's like a big Jihad Walmart and it damn well shouldn't be.

Look, I for one am glad Saddam is captured, and not a danger anymore, but this is nothing even close to justification of the war and subsequent occupation, not to mention the amount of lives lost.




[Edited on 15-12-2003 by Jakomo]

No, no, no. You are confusing all Americans with George Bush. Not all Americans believe that the way they are going about things is the correct way. This is why their presidents only stay with them for a max of 8 years. I have a feeling after 4, bush will be out. By stereotyping all Americans you are no better than you say they are. BTW, I agree with some of what you say, but for other reasons.

-P

Originally posted by FULCRUM

Well,

Basicly..

Because:

You Americans claim to be defenders of justice, freedom and god.

Somebody being murdered/executed isnt justice.

Freedom isnt being a prisoner of anykind.

God doesnt kill people and make wars.

You have these values that you supposedly defend, yet you break all the time your own rules.

You destroy the things that you are supposed to uphold.

That is why.

[Edited on 15-12-2003 by postings]

I personally think you need a hug. First off, I have to say that I used to believe what you do, so there is that. Second, the US is not defending anyone's freedoms, no matter what they say sorry. They are there because they wanted to beat France to the oil, and because bushie-baby has a vested interest in doing so. There is documented proof that Iraq was months, if not weeks away from inking a deal which would have given France unfettered access to much of it's vast untapped oilfields. This would have meant billions if not more to France. The Bush and his interests didn't like that. In fact, one of Bush's biggest campaign contributers was Halliburton. Who got the contract to help with the rebuilding of Iraq? Halliburton. Don't you find it ironic that so soon after Sept 11th, there was a plan in place to rid the war of terrorism? Things are almost ALWAYS far more simple than most folks make them seem. I don't agree with a lot of what Fulcrum says, and why he says it, but you have to be blind to think that people around the world aren't enormously pissed off at the US. And to acknowledge that, you have to acknowldege the fact that SOMETHING has to change about their foreign policy. BTW, the root word of policy is police.

-P

Originally posted by SimpleTruth
FULLCRUM! YOU ARE AN IDIOT! I cannot be civil anymore with you! I'm sorry, you are such a blithering ignorant MORON that it amazes me! You think it's WRONG to imprison people who murder THOUSANDS of people???? CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVE! We ARE defending freedom and justice by shutting your fricking IDOL away for GOOD! THIS IS SAVING FUTURE LIVES! You know what?? Since you are SO convicted about defending saddam, why don't you act on your words and go JOIN the fight against us, or keep your role model company as his CELL MATE! NONE of what you say holds anything CLOSE to merit!

[Edited on 15-12-2003 by postings]