Atheism: So dark, the con of man.

Several threads here in the spirituality section are nothing more than a fusilade against any religion or faith; their authors attack all deists as "living in the middle ages."

Hilarious. The same people no doubt believe in the existence of a mythical land called China. They have not personally seen it. Many of the stories about China are contradictory---some say china is a threat. Others say that it is our gateway to global peace, if only we can draw china out of its cocoon. So many views of china contradict each other, where is they atheist to shout that since the views clash, they must ALL BE FALSE! ??

There are as many Kinds of believers as their are atheists. SOME of them are vengeful, ignorant savages who hate all that is different; some of them are superstitious fools who believe what they've been told by their intellectual heroes. But others are open minded, reasonable people who have drawn their own conclusions, a system of aprehending the world that works for them. Millions of them are NOT nuts, but you ignore those. You focus on the fringe the cooks. And say they are all alike.

Atheists, or believers? Which was I writing about? Actually, the above paragraph is a mirror, showing how we are all self-centered, and deeply suspicious of people who are different.

But it is possible to remain polite.

all the best.

I agree with you.. I am an atheist but I am not going to slander others for what they believe, even if I wanted to.. I am all for organised religion of all types, it helps as many if not more than it does harm to..

atheists
theists

what do they have in common?

as much as luke skywalker, simba from the lion king, king arthur, and frodo

why do i say that?
because on the surface, they seem completely different
but once you look into it, they are so very similar

sure, atheists may have the intellectual high ground in some respects, but the average atheist is just as likely to engage in shady argumentative tactics

my name is madness and i'm an atheist

Good God! Is Dan Brown's quote the best you can come up with ??

Oh! and you could use the "spagetti monster" instead of china to make a stronger argument! Easier to draw a contrast too. China is too inanimate to draw a good comparision.

Also if you do understand Atheists in general they are more informed about religion than most people who claim to be religious. That is primarily due to the emphasis of reason and logic in Atheism over blind faith. Also there is the constant challenge that atheists face and therefore reading up and being informed in a necessity. Lastly, I would say that no two atheists are alike in their version of atheism, each one shares a unique level of skepticism about the divine. The only thing that is common to them is they dont believe, beyond that there is a whole realm of thought and philosophy such that each individual charts their own philosophy.

As an atheist I dont believe in the myth of divinity just as I dont believe all people are equall. But I understand the purpose of the concept and its role in society. I am sure some atheists would agree but then again I believe in fate!

[edit on 16-1-2007 by IAF101]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Actually, the above paragraph is a mirror, showing how we are all self-centered, and deeply suspicious of people who are different.

But it is possible to remain polite.

Hooray for you! So true, so true.

Of course when you are a really 'odd' ball/bird, everyone is different so you learn manners at an earlier age!

Originally posted by IAF101
Good God! Is Dan Brown's quote the best you can come up with ??

[edit on 16-1-2007 by IAF101]

Hardly. More like the opening salvo across the creaky bow of misleading thread titles.

Hey, I could have quoted from Finnegans Wake, but most of our fellow posters wouldn't know imipolex-g from a glass of whiskey if it hit 'em in the eye.

all the best.

Why be an -ist at all?
Why force yourself into a slot that says "This is what I Believe, and I aint budging, and if you don't agree with me then you are deluded".

If my vision of God turns out to be wrong when I die, well, God should have spelled things out a bit more clearly for my limited intellect and observation skills. If for some weird reason he gives a damn about my personal theories on Life the Universe and Everything.

It really doesn't matter. I don't believe in UFOs, but it someday it turns out that I am wrong and the DO exist, well hey, whatdoyaknow, no stress.


[edit on 17-1-2007 by emjoi]

Originally posted by emjoi
Why be an -ist at all?
Why force yourself into a slot that says "This is what I Believe, and I aint budging, and if you don't agree with me then you are deluded".

[edit on 17-1-2007 by emjoi]

Well, personally, I consider myself more of an "-ite" than and "-ist." But thanks for asking.

Serioiusly. I don't see myself that way at all. It's sort of like my high school chess team. I never reveled in my status on the team, or sewed a letter on my jacket or anything.

I liked to play, and they were the people who were interested in it.


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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
There are as many Kinds of believers as their are atheists. SOME of them are vengeful, ignorant savages who hate all that is different; some of them are superstitious fools who believe what they've been told by their intellectual heroes. But others are open minded, reasonable people who have drawn their own conclusions, a system of aprehending the world that works for them.
(Snip)
But it is possible to remain polite.

Sadly, some continue to prove despite that possibility, they choose otherwise.

Bravo on the mirror though. It is one EVERYONE need look into. I am neither an athiest nor an evangelist, nor am I agnostic- but I respect each of them their rights and beliefs.

I take exception when I see people purposefully trying to discredit someone on their spiritual belief system. Be it in a God, religion, or their athiesm. A proven or proposed conspiracy is one thing, a belief bashing thread is another.

The character in general of a poster certainly can shine through in how they behave on such topics. I tire of intolerance, and baiting to bash.





[edit on 17-1-2007 by 2l82sk8]

Your analogy with China makes little sense, when you take even the briefest look at the evidence for China's existence. The difference in views on China's motives are completely different to the differences in religious belief... Everyone knows China is China where as different religions believe in completely different Gods.

I hear it over and over again. As an atheist, I am supposed to keep my ideology to myself and respect the belief of others.

Well why should I respect a belief that says I am scum, that says I am a fool, says that I will burn for eternity in a lake of fire?

Edit - To add, you ask the question 'why are there so many posts attacking religion?'. If you see questioning the beliefs you hold as attacks, then your belief can't really be that strong in the first place.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by CaptainLazy]

Originally posted by CaptainLazy
Well why should I respect a belief that says I am scum, that says I am a fool, says that I will burn for eternity in a lake of fire?

can i get a RA-men from the congregation on this one?

well, how about i just give you a little way above?

nice job cap'n
that is the difference

atheism views the religious as nothing more than superstitious
almost all forms of theism view the non-theists as some form of scum or another

Originally posted by CaptainLazy

Edit - To add, you ask the question 'why are there so many posts attacking religion?'. If you see questioning the beliefs you hold as attacks, then your belief can't really be that strong in the first place.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by CaptainLazy]

An attack is an attack is an attack, regardless of who I happen to be, or what I beleive. If the following language were used on the game of golf, I'd call it an attack:

from another thread on religion
. . . , the biggest con of all

Where do I start with a concept that is so antiquated that it bares no relevence in todays society?

. . . is the disease that plagues this planet, full of corrupt individuals who
are only interest is to manipulate and squeeze money out of the poor saps who lap it up . . .

The only "question" in the above example is purely rhetorical. The poster has no interest in the exchange of other viewpoints; he/she is merely spoiling for a fight.

Or maybe that's merely my perception. You know how irrational we religionists can be.

P.S. There are hundreds of millions of my co-religionists who don't believe they have any special insight into whom exactly is headed where, or for how long. (millions of us are not fundamentalists.) The biggest speaker on the topic, the Catholic pope, just edited their official view on purgatory. Sure you can find idiots on every fringe. But that probably holds for atheists, too . . . .

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I consider myself to be an a-theist, that is I believe in a creator, I just don't believe in religion.

Is there a category for this?

Originally posted by graverobbingmasons
I consider myself to be an a-theist, that is I believe in a creator, I just don't believe in religion.

Is there a category for this?

Deist?

All of the normal arguing aside, I am getting a little tired of hearing so called atheists complain about how persecuted they are.

Maybe it's just me but i honestly can't see how or where they're being persecuted. Maybe you guys have never been to New York City, or the southern NY area in general. Talk about persecution, you just try and bring up anything closely Christian and you'll get a slammed from all angles.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just not reading the right material here but I've found 90% of atheist arguments to show a poor understanding of the religious texts they're deriding. Basically, I'm a Christians because all the arguments i've heard to the contrary have been pretty poor. (obviously it's not the only reason)

However, the atheists will never gain a proper understanding of say the Bible, because they are incapable of having a spiritual experience. If you haven't had one, if you haven't felt that sudden loving oneness with creation and with God then you will always view the Bible as somthing untrue and outside yourself and always compare it to what you deem as science and logical thought.

I had trouble understanding and believing what I had read and felt until I had a spiritual experience or two, now it all makes perfect sense to me.

But it's pretty much hopeless to try and convince atheists to change their mind, they're usually pretty dead set on thinking what they want and knowing they're right. Plus, many of them become atheists so they can rebel against their parents or teachers or whoever else.

I always like arguing the existence of atheism with "atheists", I always start it off by saying somthing to the effect of:

"If you honestly, truly, in your heart believe there is no God, no soul and no afterlife, then why do you feel the need to argue it so strongly? I think you're an agnostic."

They never see the irony in arguing the existence of atheism.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
All of the normal arguing aside, I am getting a little tired of hearing so called atheists complain about how persecuted they are.

well, we are 15% of the population
and yet we have no atheists in elected federal positions

Maybe it's just me but i honestly can't see how or where they're being persecuted. Maybe you guys have never been to New York City, or the southern NY area in general. Talk about persecution, you just try and bring up anything closely Christian and you'll get a slammed from all angles.

so there is 1 area where it's "not safe" to bring up christianity
big deal

Anyway, perhaps I'm just not reading the right material here but I've found 90% of atheist arguments to show a poor understanding of the religious texts they're deriding. Basically, I'm a Christians because all the arguments i've heard to the contrary have been pretty poor. (obviously it's not the only reason)

well, claiming that they have poor understanding of the text is most likey a matter of interpretational difference

However, the atheists will never gain a proper understanding of say the Bible, because they are incapable of having a spiritual experience. If you haven't had one, if you haven't felt that sudden loving oneness with creation and with God then you will always view the Bible as somthing untrue and outside yourself and always compare it to what you deem as science and logical thought.

atheists won't get the bible because they can't experience spirituality?
maybe you can't understand atheism because you have deluded yourself into a "spiritual" experience

I had trouble understanding and believing what I had read and felt until I had a spiritual experience or two, now it all makes perfect sense to me.

"spiritual" experiences..
so, how does one go about having one of them?

But it's pretty much hopeless to try and convince atheists to change their mind, they're usually pretty dead set on thinking what they want and knowing they're right.

big stereotype
atheists tend to have a common mantra "be open minded, but not so open minded that you mind falls out"
few atheists actually are "hard" atheists (ones that say it is impossible for god to exist)
most are "soft" atheists, who maintain that they are ALMOST certain that god doesn't exist
we are fairly open to new ideas and the concept of being wrong

Plus, many of them become atheists so they can rebel against their parents or teachers or whoever else.

again, another big stereotype
i have found this one to be very false and simply bigoted

"If you honestly, truly, in your heart believe there is no God, no soul and no afterlife, then why do you feel the need to argue it so strongly? I think you're an agnostic."

They never see the irony in arguing the existence of atheism.

and you theists never seem to realize the irony of arguing that a deity exists
or in the irony of calling us arrogant for asserting that god most likely doesn't exist

Shadowflux I am an atheist and I dont feel persecuted except maybe by you... for one thing I had many so called 'spiritual' experiences and for a time believed that they came from a higher power/being until I really started to think about it with my so called 'faith' set aside.. I had to wonder was there any way to explain these experiences apart from a higher power/being and I have to say certainly all of them can be...
And I have no problem admiting when I am wrong, it happens, often I have been wrong.
I studied the bible for over 10 years quite indepthly I may add, so I would not say my understanding of it is limited at all... I will admit that there is much in there that I do not understand.. and I have no problem consulting lexicons and/or other aids so that I can gain greater understanding.. but none the less my ultimate conclusion to this point is that there is no god.

I'm an atheist, but I had spiritual experiences. I just would hate to be in an institution who killed millions of people throught history, you know christianity or islam. Also, I don't believe all the BS with the ``holy book`` from each religion. Also, I can't stand the pope with his BS about sex protection and their hypocrisy towards the church's crimes against humanity, (extermination camps during WW2, massacres of entire populations, holy wars, dark ages, ect...)

But I respect those who believe in any religion, unless they want to kill another person for their believes or despise someone for their beliefs. I think the whole concept of religions is about power and ignorance. But in the modern times, people can be christian or muslim without being an ignorant and without believing all the crap the priest or the pope will come with.

"If you honestly, truly, in your heart believe there is no God, no soul and no afterlife, then why do you feel the need to argue it so strongly? I think you're an agnostic."

Religion is restricting the development of mankind.

Sometimes when you see something blatantly wrong you just want to express it.

Your argument fails sir

Originally posted by Shadowflux

I had trouble understanding and believing what I had read and felt until I had a spiritual experience or two, now it all makes perfect sense to me.

So having a spiritual experience confirmed your belief in god, 1) just how did you know that your experience was from god? - You didnt, you just assumed that it was. 2)How did you know it was your god? -You didnt, you just assumed it was.
So the fact you had an experience, whether spiritual or not, has no bearing on whether your god or anyone elses exists. You just assume from you experience that a god exists and its a christian one!

And that constitutes as proof of god ???????



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