Pyramids......sound and water???

Hello to you all,

Although I am not new to ATS by any means, I am fairly new to your forum here, so please pardon my new guy name in this area!?

I am wondering if anybody here has any thoughts as to the construction of the pyramids by the aid of sound and water??? I know that the histoical timeline of human civilizations only goes back so far according to most people, but I beg to differ with that thought. Without going into too much detail.....I am of the thought process that humans have been around much longer than previously thought and that maybe some sort of cataclysmic (sp?) event happened to wipe out most people in the past, making it start over again. With that in mind, I tend to believe that the ancient Egyptians may have been MUCH more advanced than we thought...and may have had techniques using water and sound to aid in the construction of the pyramids.
Any others out there who can help me and/or criticize this thought?? Although I do lean in this direction now, I did not used to and I do appreciate all thoughts (even if you do not agree). So, thanks ahead of time to you all.

P.S. Just so you do not think I am uninformed,
I do have a degree in Anthropology with specifics
in Egyptology...just trying to think outside the box.

Peace, Mondo

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
I am of the thought process that humans have been around much longer than previously thought and that maybe some sort of cataclysmic (sp?) event happened to wipe out most people in the past, making it start over again.

Erm, just how old do you think humans are, anyway?

Scientists say h.sapiens has been around for the past 90,000 years or so and recognizable humans (not h.sapiens) have been around for about 5 million years.

There's good records (skeletons, houses, shelters, artifacts) to back this up.

In considering your idea, you need to examine and determine things about what YOU think is human (neanderthals? heidelbergensis? erectus? australopithecus?) and what you think are the dates/ages for things. You might also want to read a bit on geology and how we tell if there's been a flood or volcano catastrophe.

You might also like to read up on the "Great Extinctions" (there were five -- this link to the Permian-Triassic one will get you started: en.wikipedia.org... )

With that in mind, I tend to believe that the ancient Egyptians may have been MUCH more advanced than we thought...and may have had techniques using water and sound to aid in the construction of the pyramids.

Yes, the work crews probably chanted as they moved and hauled stone and carved it. And yes, they used boats to move the stone. There's several texts plus "work orders" found in and around Giza that mention loads of stone brought in by boat, etc.

Any others out there who can help me and/or criticize this thought?? Although I do lean in this direction now, I did not used to and I do appreciate all thoughts (even if you do not agree). So, thanks ahead of time to you all.

P.S. Just so you do not think I am uninformed,
I do have a degree in Anthropology with specifics
in Egyptology...just trying to think outside the box.

Now, seriously, think about it from a cultural standpoint.

With those degrees, you're aware of the wealth of written material from Egypt. Why would they just use those techniques on one set of buildings and not, say, on the temples at Armana? Why wouldn't they use them on other large monuments and statues? And if they did, why aren't the other ancient civilizations that they traded with using it (or importing Egyptian workers to do that work0 and why didn't Herodotus or other writers mention it?

Think about how culture and technolgy spreads. The Egyptians had faience and mass production of things like amulets, and this technology spread and developed into the glassworking trades. Think of all the tomb paintings of the professionals, particularly those associated with the pyramids.

Now... ask yourself this... where (in all the long and formal lists of titles and materials) is the job description for this, and where are the tomb paintings showing all this?

Why do things such as the painting of the festival of Ophet show a lot of people carrying heavy shrines when the priests could have just "chanted' them aloft?

Why use boats or oxen or chariots for transport of goods and troops when you could just have a priest levitate a flying carpet or flying slab of wood and move things wherever they're needed?

Why levitate only pyramid stones and not the larger ones used in the temples at Armana, etc?

Why do they show oxen dragging pyramid blocks? Why is there at least one drawing of a team of workmen heaving the blocks into place?



I know that academic degrees don't prepare you for dealing with pseudoscience, but your own knowledge of texts, cult centers, towns, and the culture itself should have had you laughing at the trumped-up evidence.

Ok, I understand your standpoint so far.
Also, I deliberately did not go into too much detailm as to keep the thread clear and concise to its topic. Now that you have raised so points, let me delve iinto a one or two of your counters.
1) possible age of human and what i believe human to be??
A) Great point, I suppose it all depends on your definition of human/civilization...to that a person could go round and round. As for the age of humans possibly being...I believe many of the dating techniques to be too broad and capable of flaws. But, being as that I mentioned that I think there may have been a major catastrophe to have hit the earth, maybe the fossils are no longer there to be found???
(A theory to be mentioned is that some cryptogeologists think that the earth may have been hit by a large object/comet/other planet a long time ago causing the above mentioned possiblity?)
My point is, its hard to date what cannot be found yet!

2)Levitation???
A) First, i never even came close to saying that a bunch of priests could levitate anything? Being that you are a Mod (Super Mod) at that, i would think that you would be the first person to NOT put words into other people mouths!?
Assuming however, that your gest was in tongue and cheek fashion.....which i sure that it was, i will explain my stance.
Theories as to the construction of the pyramids have been around probably since the pyramids themselves, right? Some are more populra than others....needless to say that NONE have any more proof than others yet. Still a speculative idea, but again, some seem to have more validity than others. Tesla for one, experimented with the possiblity that sound waves can be manipulated to move objects...different wavelenghts can produce the ability to disrupt magnetic and gravitational fileds...this is a proven concept. The degree of the operational capacity of such a phenomenon is what is being scrutinized, not its possibility. Therefore, sound CAN move objects, but did they have the knowledge to do it??? That is the question here...some techniques can be lost over time, you will no doubt agree with this!?
You do raise a good point though, why did they not use this all over....I don't know, maybe they did, maybe they did not, maybe they did in certain situations to make the common people think they were gods????? I am putting the cart before the horse I think here, what i am trying to ascertain is the available ideas as to technologies that the ancients may have had.

I apologize for the long-windedness, just want to be clear. And, as stated before, i appreciate all comments, critcism and compliment, so thanks for the challenge and response!

Peace, Mondo

can you give further detail on where you got the idea that levitating blocks are somehow involved in egyptology
I know two sources for this myth and they are both not inm the sligtest bit credible
and no
I don't believe you are getting this just from what Tesla never actually proved by practical demonstration
also
how long has it been since you got your degree


thanks

Originally posted by Marduk
can you give further detail on where you got the idea that levitating blocks are somehow involved in egyptology
I know two sources for this myth and they are both not inm the sligtest bit credible
and no
I don't believe you are getting this just from what Tesla never actually proved by practical demonstration
also
how long has it been since you got your degree

thanks

Marduk,
Ok gang, let's focus here.
To answer your question, my degree was attained quite recently but I do not think that's the question at hand here.
Tesla experimented with sound, his contributions are even being used (supposedly) with the HAARP project.

To clear up an obvious misunderstanding, and I do not intend to yell with the following capital letters but I want others to see it, ok??

I AM NOT INSINUATING THAT BLOCKS WERE LEVITATED OR FLOATING AROUND THE PYRAMIDS!!!

Sound waves have been proven to be able to disrupt magnetic and gravitational fields! In essence, sound can lessen the affects present thereby making it easier to move objects. think of it as lessening friction if you want, making movement easier.

As to where I get the idea, it is just that, an idea! As I stated before, the common beliefs have not been proven and many people are trying to think of other ways that the pyramids may have been constructed. Simply put, we just don't yet know how it was done, although some believe that the actual ways and mechanical machines are part of the construction themselves and possibly under the Sphinx.

Now, I am fine with the crticism of the idea and the opportunity to hear your ideas (all of you), but please refrain from flaming me or anybody. Suggest all you want but I respect your opinions and look forward to respectful and intelligent (albeit maybe radical) ideas.

Again, thanks for the responses, Mondo

I dont know about water but here is a video of an acoustic levitation chamber that nasa built.

www.youtube.com...

I've got a theory on this subject, a little based on fact and most to do with my over active mind!

I watched a program on either Discovery or N.G over the festive period and they were manipulating sand using a tuning fork.The sand was placed upon some metallic surface (looked like a ferrous metal to me) and when the tuning fork was hit a certain way the sand would move and/or form a pattern similar to how iron filings react when a magnet is placed near them.

This got me thinking..... (which is dangerous cos my minds somewhere between my head and the gutter). What if the lost knowledge the pyramid builders had was about magnetic lines/forces and the art of sound??

At this moment we are only beginning to understand the magnetic forces on our planet..I'm sure I read that we've recently discovered that the magnetic north used to be exact opposite e.g was at the south. And the magnetic poles fluctuate in size shrinking and growing over a period of time. What if the builders knew how to manipualte the magnetic forces and used it to thier advantage?

Combine this with the new sound renosance techniques (e.g example above) and also the ability to make solid objects lose a percentage of thier mass by causing thier molecules to vibrate (only at extreme high pitch and frequency, or so I'm led to believe). now if these were combined, theres a method to move dense objects with a high mass, with little effort. Maybe I'm wrong so i think I'll book myself into the doctors lol.

Thank you for your additions to the thread...I am sometimes computer dumb and don't really understand how to provide links to what I have found. But, some of you now have and I thank you.
You mention that we are only beginning to understand certain magnetic properties and that is so true. some of the great thinkers of our past were far too advanced for their times and their theories were put to the wayside. Only now are they being brought to light and being looked at and applied to ageing problems.

Thank you so much for your thoughts and links....Peace gang, mondo

P.S. Levitation chamber..pretty neat!

I watched a program on either Discovery or N.G over the festive period and they were manipulating sand using a tuning fork.The sand was placed upon some metallic surface (looked like a ferrous metal to me) and when the tuning fork was hit a certain way the sand would move and/or form a pattern similar to how iron filings react when a magnet is placed near them.

Here is a video similar to what you described.

www.youtube.com...

Now, I am fine with the crticism of the idea and the opportunity to hear your ideas (all of you), but please refrain from flaming me or anybody. Suggest all you want but I respect your opinions and look forward to respectful and intelligent (albeit maybe radical) ideas

now don't get snarky

unfortunatly you have run afould of pseudoscience with this idea as it has been bought up before
the first time was by Edgar Cayce who claimed
1) that when he was the Atlantean priest Ra Ta he had witnessed the blocks of the great pyramid being "floated" into place
the second time was by Graham Hancock who claimed
2) that there is a record of blocks in mesoamerica being manipulated to the accomapniment of sound

now in the first case Cayce was clearly bonkers or lying
and in the second Hanock was deliberately misquoting a mesoamerican anthropologist who had recounted a tale that the workers who built some mesoamerican temples whistled while they worked

so perhaps you can understand now why the more knowledgable members on this board arent taking you seriously

the egyptians didn't have a very high level of technology
they built things out of stone because they didn't know what an alloy or plastics were and because the stone was readily available
theres more than enough accounts both textual and visual of how they moved the blocks by hand and in some cases utilising simple but effective methods to make this idea a complete non starter

I think it's entirely possible that ancient Egyptians had a method of moving and lifting stone that's been forgotten or kept secret all these years. I mean, how many documentaries with red faced perplexed scientists taking 3 days to lift a 600lb stone do you have to watch, to realize that they have no idea how it was really done? Most sources seem to agree it required one stone block placed every 3 minutes to complete the pyramid in the 20 year period they claim it was built. There are blocks weighing as much as 45 tons above the King's chamber in the great pyramid and I've never seen anything like an explanation as to how they were placed there - or even moved from the quarry. Then there's the stone blocks at Baalbek... moving those defies explanation.

I really wish we could discuss these things here but it seems like the same people jump on every thread concerning ancient buildings and poo-poo anything that's not doctrine.

Originally posted by Marduk
so perhaps you can understand now why the more knowledgable members on this board arent taking you seriously

Marduk,
Sorry if you feel I am snarky, I am not, but that last statement is insulting! You, nor anybody else can quantify or qualify who is or is not more knowledgeable.

If you do not take me seriously, well..that's your opinion and you are obviously free to feel however you wish.
If you want to think inside the proverbial box, fine with me, but as per the last post above, it's my opinion as well that it's ridiculous to think they put all the stones in by hand with no other technological advantage in the time frame assumed.
Also, if the aforementioned knowledgeable persons on this forum whom you are speaking in place of don't care to take me seriously, fine as well. My purpose was/is to write an idea or thought on this topic to better educate myself and others and to open up new possibilities and lines of thinking, that's all!

By the way, I can honestly say that I have no interest or thought of piggybacking people's ideas like Edgar Cayce or anybody else for that matter. To me it is a logical theory that needs some more thinking but is no more strange than any other, actually I think it may be more progressive but worth the exploration none the less.

As always, peace, Mondo

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
I think it's entirely possible that ancient Egyptians had a method of moving and lifting stone that's been forgotten or kept secret all these years. I mean, how many documentaries with red faced perplexed scientists taking 3 days to lift a 600lb stone do you have to watch, to realize that they have no idea how it was really done? Most sources seem to agree it required one stone block placed every 3 minutes to complete the pyramid in the 20 year period they claim it was built. There are blocks weighing as much as 45 tons above the King's chamber in the great pyramid and I've never seen anything like an explanation as to how they were placed there - or even moved from the quarry. Then there's the stone blocks at Baalbek... moving those defies explanation.

I really wish we could discuss these things here but it seems like the same people jump on every thread concerning ancient buildings and poo-poo anything that's not doctrine.

I agree entirely, and it would be great to stay on topic instead of everybody jumping on the thread to flame it! We must open our minds to other possibilities as you have mentioned. Thanks for your post, I can relate to your line of thinking!

Peace, Mondo

it's ridiculous to think they put all the stones in by hand with no other technological advantage in the time frame assumed

perhaps you could in that case tell me just what you think the time frame was ?
you seem to be under the misaprehension that because some pseudosicentists have claimed that in their opinion it isn't possible that orthodox historians say the same thing
they don't

or why you think the murals showing egyptians which were created by egyptians and show them using sleds to move large pieces of stone were lying

and hey Mondo
snarky is not an insult
its like saying don't worry
sorry i didn't realise you were so sensitive
I must admit though I don't believe for a minute that you have an anthropology degree
maybe you took an anthropology course
but clearly
you weren't listening

and you are not thinking outside the box at all
you're just being ignorant of the facts
claiming that there must have been some secret method which we no longer know about flies in the face of the fact that we do know exactly when and how the pyramids were built
si I seriously question you know anytyhing about egyptology as well
perhaps you've read a book by Graham Hancock on the subject
because clearly all the information you have divulged so far can be traced back to that source
he's a journalist you know
not an egyptologist
Byrd does know what shes talking about
I'd listen if I were you

I really wish we could discuss these things

yes well
this is the "Ancient & Lost Civilizations " forum
not the "Aliens did it and the ancients were more advanced than we were forum"
so thats why
and really
if you had any actual evidence of half the rubbish you come out with it wouldn't be a case of not being allowed to discuss it
the reason you can't discuss it is because your imagination is based on a personal belief
and once again
when you are discussing a factual subject your personal belief is better saved for somewhere it is needed
because it clearly isn't needed here
instead of complaining all the time why don't you actually do some studying

Ok Marduk,

I am done with this b.s. with you! I have no need to prove anything to you at all. I have no problem with Byrd (sp?) at all, just a difference of opinion.
As for you, I find your critiques insulting to say the least! If you have a differeing opinion, that's great...let's discuss it. But, you tend to want to debate that i have a degree at all or any knowledge, I am not going to any length to prove anything to you past this point.....regardless of your thoughts, i do in fact have a degree in anthro and field experience in archaeology as well.

Thanks for you thoughts up to this point, but at least until there is a resolution of our differences, i will refrain from responding to your comments on this site. this is due to your insulting comments not your difference of opinion. Also, my apologies to the mods that have to read this squabble that is off topic.

to all else, please post your thoughts (whatever they are)...peace, mondo

at some point you might actually have a point
up til now concluding that Tesla claimed that you can move objects with sound and that somehow that is linked to Egyptian pyramids is pure speculation
the facts prove that there is no connection as the facts display how the blocks were moved
this you would actually know if you as you claimed had studied egyptology
so i happily conclude that you haven't
as for your claim to have studied anthropology
if you had you would know that events happen in a linear timeframe
you display no knowledge of this concept either
so my conclusion is that you haven't studied anthropology to any marked degree
your reluctance to discuss your claimed education also adds weight to the fact that you haven't had any

you asked for opinions and you got them
its not my fault you got sensible answers and can't deal with them
get a life

You really can't rule out any opinion on their technology since we weren't around? I think modern science tries to use a "close" minded text book explaination of what,when,where,how...I think that modern science needs to follow up on basic knowledge with "unexplained theory" findings. Sorta lay over of facts and press them together to see what you come up with. Sometimes I find science so by the logic that it never lets itself morph beyond the logical thinking with facts and time dates and carbon stamps etc. But IMO your might find some answers that could connect the question with the Sumarians they were a strange culture that had some very clever ways of using "unexplained ways" to solve problems.

tsloan,

great insight, thanks for the positive contribution to the thread! yeah, the Sumerians were a strange culture, but aren't we as well. You sure are right about the possible ideas that are not in the textbooks!

Mondo

But IMO your might find some answers that could connect the question with the Sumarians they were a strange culture that had some very clever ways of using "unexplained ways" to solve problems.

there is nothing strange about the Sumerian culture at all
they left behind a lot of texts that explain everything about their culture
www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk...

yeah, the Sumerians were a strange culture

so suddenly you're a sumerologist as well as an anthropologist and an egyptologist
what iyo makes the sumerians a strange culture
been reading Sitchin perhaps

My first post, woot woot

"He who controls the past, controls the future".

There have been very few things about history that have perplexed me as a child. One being how Hitler managed to get an entire nation to goto war, and the other being how the Pyramids in Giza, Stonehenge, and all the other stone wonders of the world were built.

As someone said, there are stones in the great pyramid which are so large and heavy, it simply defies all logic that someone could have moved it into place using log rollers, ropes, slaves and slight inclines to reach higher points..

"historians aren't entirely sure" is what you'll get if u ask how the pyramids were built. In other words, no one actually knows...given that we "know" the Egyptians were not as advanced as we are now, then that pretty much explains it all..

Unless of course, you don't take whats being said, and that maybe the Egyptians (and other civilizations) had knowledge far superior to what we have now.

I think it is entirely possible that they were built using levitation techniques, and in my opinion, it is the only explanation that makes any sense. Of course, people will say it is impossible, but we all thought the world was flat once...never assume something is impossible/implausible.

Also, i don't think we have conclusively realised what the Pyramids were actually built for. The Kings chamber resonates to an F# note, the significance of the geographical location (longitude+latitude), why they align to the Orion constellation, why Pi was incorporated into the design of the pyramids etc. I really don't buy "the pyramids are just giant tombs" argument.

If you look at other bits of information, such as the Bible and its relation to the signs of the Zodiac, how Islam/Christianity/Judasim all came out of Egypt, there is definatly some connection in that it all points to the cosmos, and i think the Pyramids are no exception.

Also, the Illuminati symbol is the all seeing eye atop a pyramid, which i think has more meaning than just a power structure/hierarchy. I think Egypt was the beginning of the Illuminati we know today, it was the beginning of hidding information for power and control, and thats why they have the pyramid as their logo.

Thats my 2 cents