The myth of successful armed resistance in the US in case of martial law

If anyone believes an armed uprising of the people is possible needs to be committed for psychological examination. First off, most of the firearms we are allowed to own are of relatively low caliber in comparison to the next generation of military equipment used by the armed forces today. Our bullets would have little hope of penetrating the body armor worn by our soldiers. Second, the abilities of governemt surveillance and recon organizations is so advanced that even assembling a large enough group together to plan such a defense/attack let alone actually execute it would be near impossible. Last, most civilians could'nt even survive let alone fight without government help. Most people cant track wild game or survive off the land. An overwhelming majority "need" government and corporate intervention just to continue living. Armed Resistance? Armed suicide sounds more feasible. Much quicker and less painful.

The previous poster never grew up in the midwest shooting gophers/prairie dogs with single shot bolt action WW1 rifles while riding a pedal bike! This is something you have to learn growing up! Hollywood brainwash the populous into believing rural people are uneducated, inbred country bumpkins. One weird reality is the royalty are inbred as well! In reality we are the biggest threat to organized Gov't because we are self sufficient. We do not need them, the city folk do!

The rural people are the only buffer against the NWO in this day and age. You can pass all the anti gun laws you want but we know how to make our own weapons & bullets with just fabricated metal, wood & gun powder.

Why is it every time I turn on the news there are stories about the growing insurgancy in Iraq, and how they are causing so much problems for our military.
Do any of you think the people of the United States would be any less effective against the same miltary forces? We are talking about the same occupational situation with an oppressive military force aren't we. I constantly read posts here on ATS about how if it was my family killed or my children starving I would fight just like the insergents do. Just like over there it would be a fight to the death and just like over there our people here would rise up against the injustice. Is it easier over there to make a car bomb or strap explosives to ones self?

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Why is it every time I turn on the news there are stories about the growing insurgancy in Iraq, and how they are causing so much problems for our military.
Do any of you think the people of the United States would be any less effective against the same miltary forces? We are talking about the same occupational situation with an oppressive military force aren't we. I constantly read posts here on ATS about how if it was my family killed or my children starving I would fight just like the insergents do. Just like over there it would be a fight to the death and just like over there our people here would rise up against the injustice. Is it easier over there to make a car bomb or strap explosives to ones self?

Strapping explosives to oneself is counterproductive. Kill yourself and you're no longer there to fight.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Strapping explosives to oneself is counterproductive. Kill yourself and you're no longer there to fight.

actually its not counter productive, when they sacrifice them selves for thier idea of freedom , it strengthens the spirit of the other, creating more recruits for their cuase.

billybones82
Armed Resistance a JOKE!

If anyone believes an armed uprising of the people is possible needs to be committed for psychological examination.

and the defeatist perspective of a resistance has no place in the truth of conflict. people with rocks can hold its own with the military.yeah they would have major casualties, but thats not the point.

just to let you know if i were to come across equipment of an advanced oppressor. it now my equipment to assist me in the push.

realistically how many soldiers would open fire on their families????? their moral would drop quickly.

and if the only reason we are in a "war on terror" to reduce the numbers of the military, so to justify the occupation of other countries. they themselves will have a major problem on their hands. unity would spread quickly and it would be cohesive to a frightening degree.

Despite the fact that their is a ridicilous amount of weaponary in the United Staes, an armed resistance is ridicilous. Do Americans have explosives that they can use against their military? Do they have the amount of ammuntion that it will take to fight back?
No they don't have explosives. The difference between the USA and Iraq, is that their are countires neighbouring Iraq that are supplying it with wepaons and explosives, Canada isn't going to do the same for US citizens.
If US citizens wished to fight back, they'd need a lot of ammuniton to do so, and during martial law, 'gun shops' (whatever they're called) would be closed to avoid even more selling of weapons. This would cut off ammunition, and their are no neighbouring countries to the USA that could supply it's resistance with ammunition.
And then they'd have to fight the highly equiped US military, it's troops, it's tanks, and it's air force, the most highly eqipied military in the world.

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by billybones82
If anyone believes an armed uprising of the people is possible needs to be committed for psychological examination. First off, most of the firearms we are allowed to own are of relatively low caliber in comparison to the next generation of military equipment used by the armed forces today. Our bullets would have little hope of penetrating the body armor worn by our soldiers. Second, the abilities of governemt surveillance and recon organizations is so advanced that even assembling a large enough group together to plan such a defense/attack let alone actually execute it would be near impossible. Last, most civilians could'nt even survive let alone fight without government help. Most people cant track wild game or survive off the land. An overwhelming majority "need" government and corporate intervention just to continue living. Armed Resistance? Armed suicide sounds more feasible. Much quicker and less painful.

wow, i guess i must have joined the "other" army, you know..the one the public sees and everyone that is in joined. guess we never considered the "secret" army...you know..the one you describe.

cuz in the army i joined, we had crap made by the lowest bidder. that is when we had enough of the crap to make sure each of us had the bare essentials to do our jobs with.

Originally posted by Nexus
Despite the fact that their is a ridicilous amount of weaponary in the United Staes, an armed resistance is ridicilous. Do Americans have explosives that they can use against their military? Do they have the amount of ammuntion that it will take to fight back?
No they don't have explosives. The difference between the USA and Iraq, is that their are countires neighbouring Iraq that are supplying it with wepaons and explosives, Canada isn't going to do the same for US citizens.
If US citizens wished to fight back, they'd need a lot of ammuniton to do so, and during martial law, 'gun shops' (whatever they're called) would be closed to avoid even more selling of weapons. This would cut off ammunition, and their are no neighbouring countries to the USA that could supply it's resistance with ammunition.
And then they'd have to fight the highly equiped US military, it's troops, it's tanks, and it's air force, the most highly eqipied military in the world.

Good luck with that.

same goes for this guy. no, you cant just go buy explosives at wal-mart. but oddly enough you CAN get everything you need to make them or even chemical weapons.

dont believe me?

i was in the army for 12 years. first 5 i worked with explosives, including improvised ones.

next 5 years i was a chem/bio defense specialist. and for 2 after that i was part of a wmd response team where i had to use all the training i had from the previous 10 years.

but, i was teaching a class to the other soldiers in the unit one day about chemical terrorism (late 90's) and i bought everything i needed to make a binary chemical weapon at walmart for 20 bucks in 10 minutes and no one stopped me. really think i couldnt do it again?

please. the govt is NOT all knowing or powerful, why do you think we havnt caught some of the leaders of the insurgency in iraq. a LARGE amount of the intel we get on the guys we do stop comes from other people talking.

some people watch too many movies. oh, and as to body armor. yeah, thats great if you try to shoot a guy in the chest. but in one of my buddies offices on my last assingment he had a kevlar helmet full of holes. they took it to the range one day and the only rounds it had stopped outright were from a .45 all the rifle bullets went through it like it wasnt there.

besides. shoot a guy in the leg and you just took out 3 enemy combatants. the guy who's bleeding and the two it takes to carry a guy out of the fight. simple

but what baffles me the most is the number of people that just do NOT realize we're just not likely to end up under martial law.

i did a whole thread on this once but not many read it or seem to really grasp it.

cliff notes version

money=power

repressed people arent motivated to work real hard=economy going to crap

sure, they have power over the people in THIS country, but the economy would fall in the world market. look at how strong lil kims economy is. look how great the former soviet unions economy was

its just not worth it.

but for those of you who think that the people of the US would just sit by idly and accept a full on police state..my suggestion is to watch less tv.

May I just ask a question of the American members of this site?

Who do you owe your Oath of Alligience to, when joining the US Military? Is the Country or the President or something else?

Please excuse my ignorance, I am English.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

All enlistees swear this oath except for national guard which includes the governor as the governor is in charge of the national guard units in each state.

1. constitution
2. president(as he is commander in chief)
3.ucmj

I'm proposing a project that all anti-NWOers can participate in. Below is a draft of an email, that can be sent to members of Congress, along with a couple of links, one of which is a website that has email links to senators and congressmen. The other link is to Invisible Patriots, which has a lot of very interesting information. On it, I discovered that for every letter or email that a senator or congressman gets, the perception is that 13,000 other people share that view but couldn't be bothered to write about it. So...if 1,000 of us send the email below to our congressional representatives(both senators and congressmen), that will be perceived at representing the views of 13,000,000 people. 10,000 emails would translate into 130,000,000 concerned citizens. Do you think maybe senators and congressmen of both parties would pay attention if they thought 130 million citizens wanted them to do something, especially with elections coming up soon? I think it's worth a try. I'm asking anyone who sees this post, to copy and paste it in other threads that relate to 9/11, NWO, conspiracies, etc. Let's get as many ATS readers as possible involved in emailing Congress. Here's the letter that I suggest should be sent.

Senator/Congressman:

It's time that Congress fulfilled it's obligation to protect the civil liberties of the American People from those who would subvert the Constitution. As one of your constituents, I demand that you do the following immediately:
1) Set up a truly independent and well-funded commission to investigate the events of September 11th, 2001, without restrictions on the scope of the investigation.
2) IMMEDIATELY repeal the Homeland and Patriot Acts as well as any other legislation that violate civil liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
3) IMMEDIATELY declare null and void any and all Executive Orders or other Presidential directives, that a) violate the Constitution, b) usurp powers that properly belong to the Legislative Branch of government or c) exceed the authority of the Office of the President that has been specifically granted to it by the Constitution.
4) Warn the President AND the military establishment, that only Congress has the right to declare Martial Law or a State of Emergency and that the military MUST NOT obey any orders from the Executive Branch, under a declaration of Martial Law/State of Emergency that has not been approved by Congress.

With the November elections coming up fast, my willingness to vote for you and other candidates from your party, will depend on how you and other members of your party respond to these concerns.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the links.

www.visi.com...

invisiblepatriots.com...

Last year 22 million guns were legally transfered in Penn state alone. With overf a century of poorly regulated gun trade there are countless crates of guns from pre-1968 that we will never know about, till they just show up. Every US enemy has stated it would be suicide to conduct a land invasion because of millions and possibly many billions of firearms out there.

They couldn't collect them all if people were trying to give them away. Too dam* many of them. Its estimated somewhere on these boards I think that an uprising of 7 million would destroy half of the armed forces, and 12 million would be a solid defeat. There are 300 million people here.

Add to that the population is not a member of any armed force so they have no rules of engagement to follow.Millions of ex service persons would be supplying knowledge and support as stated here, and they would likely not honor any chemical or bio agreement or methodology. They would be adept at poisoning food and water supplies used by the troops, every form of sabotages thinkable and just like the Vietnamese all manner of improvised nasties.


If that starts looming on the horizon, me and the mrs, will be on the first boat to the islands. No way aint gonna hang around for that....

Originally posted by shooterbrody

It's easy enough to say that you would go out all guns blazing, but as the OP said; when the police come kicking down your door, are you actually going to grab your gun and fight them? I can't see it happening much.

Absolutely. If the day comes that they start doing this, word will get around fast, and anyone who tries to do the dirty work is going to have to seriously consider the risk of getting a hail of lead in the face.

Why?

Because if it comes to that point that our government is sending swat teams into American's homes to arrest them for being enemies of the state, there will be nothing left to lose.


On the other hand, if our government decides to play nice and leave normal Americans alone, stop taxing them to death, stop spying on them, and stop taking away their civil liberties... then they have no need to worry about what happens if they bust through my door, because a nice government would never do that! :-)


It's funny, because it's actually all this show of force, all this intimidation, all this spying and lawmaking (lawbreaking?) which is causing so many Americans to get armed and become "paranoid" and "anti-government".





[edit on 15-4-2008 by ianr5741]

reply to post by Illahee



I agree. I don't care what the gub-ment thinks they can get away with. If they send hired goons in to gather up the rabble at gunpoint, that's when all the talk in the world will go right out the window.


Word will travel fast. People will hunker down. You can't believe the skill some Americans have at stealth, planning, and combat. There won't be a rock bad guys could hide under. Even a nation as devastated as Iraq, with no food, no weapons, no leadership, no supplies... they STILL give an invading army hell. Not to mention fighting like that is very expensive.


You can't predict something like adaptability or what ideas the intelligent people of this country will come up with against such an attack, no matter what you try to do to them.


Even if you try and take away EVERY SINGLE registered firearm in America, you've left half of them in the field.


Even if you took away the other half, do you think there aren't people out there who know how to make a gun using rather ordinary machine shop tools?

Try to take the tools away... blah blah blah you can't take everything. The more the government tries to take away, the less they have to use for themselves. A parasite needs its host.


And like I said before, if the elite thinks they can build a big bunker and hide down there while the rest of the world is set ablaze... the 1st thing on the agenda after recovery will be to get trainloads of concrete and dump it down their ventilation shafts.


They'll have to learn to get used to that cave, because it will be their tomb.




[edit on 15-4-2008 by ianr5741]

Originally posted by shooterbrody
not to be nit picky or anything......

native americans had nothing remotely resembling the concept of property ownership

Perhaps that's why they survived on this continent for 50,000 years with no major ecological catastrophe, worldwide war, plague, starvation, or genocide.

They respected their place in the vast scheme of things. They honored powers greater than themselves and had no aspirations of becoming gods or owning nature's creation.

reply to post by Infoholic

The Constitution has already ceased to exist.

You guys seem to forget who our military is made up of anyways. Do you honestly think that our own people in the military are gonna storm through america, slaughtering their own families? putting their own wives and children and brothers and sisters, parents into camps? Call me crazy, but i just don't see how they would do it.

Our own military is NOT going to enforce martial law. Stop with the false sense of security that just because ML breaks out, our men and women of the armed forces will not disenfranchise us because they are our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, neighbors, friends, husbands, wives, etc. The NWO knows this would pose a problem. Why do you think we are right now in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and soon to be Iran? Besides that, we have troops stationed all over the entire PLANET! Our military would be stretched entirely too thin to enforce martial law in this country.

I feel that another nation's military (I.E. Russia, or China) will be used to enforce ML. They couldn't give two #s about the U.S. citizens and we all know how things go down over there. They've been practicing all the right methods for years. They would be perfect to disarm us, round us up for concentration camps, or even kill us resisters. We stand no chance against an entire military force toe to toe. They have highly trained individuals, all the money, weapons, vehicles they need, and the tactics for urban warfare.

Forgive me for not providing a link, I am abit sleepy.. but I have read that the Illuminati have up to 1% of the U.S. population highly trained, ready and able to respond to any form of dissent. This includes advanced forms of armed, and unarmed combat, mass manipulation through verbal propaganda (being very charismatic in a time of crisis will grant you vast trust), and somewhat mind control.

Now consider as of 2006 the U.S. census bureau estimated the population to be around 300,000,000 people. How many of those people are either too young, too sick, or too old to fight? How many of those people are too indoctrinated to accept they're living in a police state?

Now also consider 1% of that 300,000,000 is 3,000,000 people. That's a pretty sizeable private army. They may be used instead if China nor Russia's forces are not used.

For the few that are gunbound to defend this nation, I feel that our best chance for survival is to employ guerilla warfare tactics. Time has shown how effective such tactics are. (I.E. Veitnam, and to a lesser extent, Iraq today, as most U.S. casualties are from I.E.D.s and not from gunfire. You cannot kill an enemy you cannot see.) However, no amount of fighting will solve our problems. We need to come together, and regain a sense of community. No more pop-up subdivisions where nobody knows each other because they're dubious to everyone around them thanks to watching so much murder and crap people pull on T.V.

Get to know your neighbors and come up with a contingency plan incase our ongoing peaceful protests don't change the course of this once great nation. Mapquest any military surplus stores around your area. Most items are very affordable. Stock up on a year's supply of MRE (Meals Ready to Eat), water purifiers, blankets, a radio, flashlights, batteries, a portable stove, pots, pans, propane, a tactical map of your area, etc.. and for my sake and your own, if you know someone in the armed forces, or who is about to join the service.. PLEASE enlighten them about the agenda they're pushing unknowingly that will enslave our entire planet if they continue to fight.

reply to post by Vitchilo

The myth of successful armed resistance in the US in case of martial law. When I read some of the post here on ATS and others forums about martial law in the US, I always see posts that are claiming that if martial law is ever declared all over the country, the people will fight and it's gonna be worse than in Iraq. In Iraq, most of the casualties inflicted to the US army are made by IEDs and suicide bombers, not with guns.

This is why I hate SWAT squads. Why I HATE the volunteer Armed Forces. Soldiers and policemen are constantly subjected to propaganda. Further, they can be deceived by superiors who claim to be giving them INTELLIGENCE that is not available to the general public. In the case of the Armed Forces, it is a very serious offense NOT to obey a lawful order. And who is to say what is LAWFUL ORDER?

In the US, there's 80 millions guns owners, but of those, how much would fight or keep their firearms when the police/military kick their doors and take them like they Did in New Orleans?

I was not aware of the confiscation of guns in NO, but I can understand why it was thought necessary to STOP armed chaos in the streets. Of course, there was CHAOS but it was NOT caused by armed citizens but by INCOMPETENT public servants beginning with Bush43 and Ken Browne.

But let's make a comparison with Iraq. In Iraq, under Saddam, almost every home had at least 1 gun. Iraq's population was 26 millions in 2005, that means they had at least 20 millions guns, they were armed to the teeth... and who fought and overthrown Saddam, a dictatorship? Not a lot of people.

I find that very hard to believe; that ordinary Iraqi citizens were armed BEFORE the March 18, 2003 Shock and Awe followed 2 days later by the invasion from Kuwait. What is true is that the Saddam regime cached 100s of 1000s of arms around the country in at least 1000 different places. Because we had NO leadership we drove right past those ammo dumps on our way to a triumphal entry into Baghdad. That left the dumps open for the locals to take what they wanted.

In the US, the police state is growing little by little, making lists of “possible threats” including people protesting against the war and political enemies . . Putting cameras all over the place, like in schools, manipulating kids and giving them good behavior drugs or even spy on their own students. They start early to manipulate them by fingerprinting 5 years old kids or banning typical school games or even taking DNA at birth.

I can’t think of any really good reason to object to fingerprinting a child or in taking the DNA samples. I heard there were 1,500 bodies in NO that could not be identified. If we all had our DNA on file, that would not be the case. Like most anything it can be used for good or abused. “Spying” is like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. Again, it is a thing that can be abused. But that does not mean we should “blind” ourselves.

For the adults, spying on citizens by listening to them . . New technology to “detect violent behavior” or more technology for police to scan car license-plates that would help localize someone. They admit they breach your privacy and will soon force you to have the ID card . .

What is really wrong with a NATIONAL ID card? I mean, everyone has a social security card. You cannot work without one. You cannot open a bank account without one. You cannot file a tax return without one. You cannot get credit without one. Why are people worrying about a NATIONAL ID card when we already have one, and have had it since 1935? This sounds like a phony issue to me. A NON issue. Merely a TALKING point.

It's hard in Iraq because the technological police state wasn't there FIRST. In the USA, it will be there and fully functional when the crap hit the fan. The only way to fight will be in the wild side of the country, and those inside the cities will be under total control. That's why the fight against a police state must be won at the 2008 elections, because do you imagine 8 more years of push for a police state? And to prepare or work to avoid this day, what will you do?

And if you’ll let me do a little electioneering, let me remind you that the Republicans are 11.5 on a scale of 10 to KILL you and the Dems are 4 on a scale of 10, so the choice of the lesser of the evils presents!

The whole biometric thing is that they want to shift the whole society to a implanted-chip cashless society.

If they do get their ways, you won't be able to fight the system without being IN the system, which makes it IMPOSSIBLE. When everyone have a chip, there will be scanners all over the country, tracking your every moves, making a database of the places you go, your friends, your family... Then if you decide to rebel, they know where to look for you.

What is really wrong with a NATIONAL ID card? I mean, everyone has a social security card. You cannot work without one. You cannot open a bank account without one. You cannot file a tax return without one. You cannot get credit without one. Why are people worrying about a NATIONAL ID card when we already have one, and have had it since 1935? This sounds like a phony issue to me. A NON issue. Merely a TALKING point.

The National ID card is a world ID card. The problem is that CITIZENS need one to function and the illegals don't. Illegals get jobs, bank accounts and loans without any form of ID.

And if you’ll let me do a little electioneering, let me remind you that the Republicans are 11.5 on a scale of 10 to KILL you and the Dems are 4 on a scale of 10, so the choice of the lesser of the evils presents!

Still. It's not a choice.

The government is training FOREIGN SOLDIERS to do the dirty work when they declare martial law on a wide scale, because they are well aware that many of the soldiers will abandon their posts when they are given orders to slaughter Americans.

When the Martial law happens, it will be regiments of Mexicans or Canadians or some other foreign peoples who will gladly take the orders to fight against American people, because a foreigner will much more readily fire on people who are not his own countrymen.

I have a buddy who says he personally helped to train foreign soldiers who he said are "reserves" in the US army. He was even so detailed as to give a "list" of countries who supplied troops for this effort. He personally worked with Indian soldiers (In US military uniforms no less).

Yes, a lot of Randy Weavers and Ron Browns will rise up, and it will take pot shots...and there will be lots of protests and such. There will be killings and deportations to internment camps, no doubt. But a majority will submit...on promises that things will be returned to "normal." There won't be much of a widespread resistance though, because the people will be deceived into believing that the martial law is for their own good.

What we are facing is this: In 20 years, the US will be a deteriorating, 2nd world country. Most people will live in the cities in compact zones, there will be alot more crime, alot less money in circulation, more black markets, scarce jobs, etc. There will be alot more grafiti everywhere, people hanging their clothing to dry, people driving old cars, and alot more bikes. Life will be hectic, miserable and poor. You will always be worried about having enough food on the table...not because it is not there, but because you cannot afford it. The class system will become much more prevalent. If you want to know what the states will be like in 20 years, visit Sao Paulo Brazil, or Johannesburg, South Africa. It will simply go down to the level of what most of the world already is.