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The myth of successful armed resistance in the US in case of martial law

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posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Is a false democracy, like the US, harder to overthrow than a brutal dictatorship? IMO, yes.


1st - I don't believe this is a "false democracy". And I won't believe so until America and it's Constitution cease to exist.

2nd - Hypothetically speaking - I would agree, a false democracy would be harder to overthrow in the sense of getting "recruits" for the freedom movement.

3rd - Impossible... No.




posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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1st - I don't believe this is a "false democracy". And I won't believe so until America and it's Constitution cease to exist.

Well, what do you call a regime where you vote for republican or democrat, and they are both sold to corporations? Both working against the people? It's more obvious now... and will be more and more.

Constitution cease to exist? Well, it's near the case... There's only the second amendment left, the first have been heavy hurted... The third one...

So will you consider the US constitution dead when they wipe out the first and second amendment? Or when they wipe out when they rewrite one when they merge with Mexico and Canada?

When that happens, in the next 5 years, if nobody fights for it, what will you do?

And during Katrina it wasn't under martial law? I thought so... thanks for the info. Anyway, now Bush have destroyed Pose Comitatus...



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well, what do you call a regime where you vote for republican or democrat, and they are both sold to corporations? Both working against the people? It's more obvious now... and will be more and more.

Regardless of what crooked politicians there are in office, regardless of individuals being sold to corporations, regardless of anything... America is still America until they completely take it away. Yes they are working on it, but it's not complete.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Constitution cease to exist? Well, it's near the case... There's only the second amendment left, the first have been heavy hurted... The third one...

Exactly. With the 2nd Amendment still in place, the others still exist. Maybe not in their complete and entire form, but they still exist. And most importantly, they are worth fighting for.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
So will you consider the US constitution dead when they wipe out the first and second amendment? Or when they wipe out when they rewrite one when they merge with Mexico and Canada?

When that happens, in the next 5 years, if nobody fights for it, what will you do?

When the 2nd Amendment is gone, there will be no means of protecting the rest of them. When the 2nd is gone, the Constitution will be dead.

If they establish the NAU, the Constitution will also be dead.

Those are the only two courses that can render the US Constitution "dead".

Even having Martial Law declared, that won't "kill" the Constitution, because the US general populous is still armed. Once M.L. is declared, there will be an uprising that will bring the Constitution back from the depths of despair.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
And during Katrina it wasn't under martial law? I thought so... thanks for the info. Anyway, now Bush have destroyed Pose Comitatus...

You are welcome.

Destroying Pose Comitatus... I'm not 100% positive, so I won't try to answer that untruthfully. I think, and I hope someone can correct me, the National Guard was used in the wake of Katrina, which they are under the control of the Governor of said state(?). However, with the Executive Orders that Bush has put in place, that opens the door for him to step in with FEMA being used.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 11:50 AM
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What makes you think that the UN and NATO and other countries would agree with, and send troops to oppress innocent American citizens? I think the rest of the world would be against it tbh



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
What makes you think that the UN and NATO and other countries would agree with, and send troops to oppress innocent American citizens? I think the rest of the world would be against it tbh


I don't think anyone honestly believes they would... I think it's more of a speculation for sake of the argument, that's why I didn't argue it already.

With what is happening around the world, anything is possible.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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As written by interestedalways





As far as them not being able to manages a bunch of homeless hurricane refugees, did you ever consider it could have been a TEST RUN? Work the bugs out sort of scenario.



So what....you think the government caused the hurricane? ok............



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by secretsoldier
As written by interestedalways





As far as them not being able to manages a bunch of homeless hurricane refugees, did you ever consider it could have been a TEST RUN? Work the bugs out sort of scenario.



So what....you think the government caused the hurricane? ok............


[Bush Voice]Now see, if ya fire tha laser off the coast a africa, then ya can create a heat escalation. Or surge if ya will, if'n ya do tha math right you can make a hurricane that will hit New Orleans.[/Bush Voice]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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interestedalways not trying to step on your toes here bud.


Originally posted by JackJuice

Originally posted by secretsoldier
As written by interestedalways





As far as them not being able to manages a bunch of homeless hurricane refugees, did you ever consider it could have been a TEST RUN? Work the bugs out sort of scenario.



So what....you think the government caused the hurricane? ok............


[Bush Voice]Now see, if ya fire tha laser off the coast a africa, then ya can create a heat escalation. Or surge if ya will, if'n ya do tha math right you can make a hurricane that will hit New Orleans.[/Bush Voice]


I think the Government response to Hurricane Katrina is what was being meant by the test run. i.e. let them them suffer for longer and see what their natural reaction to it is!



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Is a false democracy, like the US, harder to overthrow than a brutal dictatorship? IMO, yes.


1st - I don't believe this is a "false democracy". And I won't believe so until America and it's Constitution cease to exist.

2nd - Hypothetically speaking - I would agree, a false democracy would be harder to overthrow in the sense of getting "recruits" for the freedom movement.

3rd - Impossible... No.


What some people fail to realize.. or maybe simply because they never bothered to study subjects in which they wish to preach about..

The United State of America is a Republic using a form of Democracy known as Representative Democracy. Real Democracy.. or better known as Direct Democracy cannot exist in large populations, it would be to easy to corrupt and to hard to manage. That's why we have the electoral college..

America is essentially 50 seperate nations that are united with in a union .. know as The Union .. hence "United States" - many states united for one common goal.. Hence the civil war.. when we no longer had a common goal..

But anyways..

Armed resistance would not help you say? *sigh*

It is not about beating an army with an army.. it is nothing like that.

If the government decided to attack her people, it would be a rather pathetic attempt honestly.. Lets assume at least 25% of the public arms themselves.. thats with knives.. guns.. hell lets throw in hammers and pitch forks, and big rocks. You would need 2 soldiers per human you wish to have submit to you.. So lets assume you have around 75 million defectors. I think that is a poor estimate, I would assume it much more.. we do not like to fall in line and be told what to do.. we are a rather arrogant population.. not to mention the ones with nothing but them selves in mind.. the looting, rioting, random killings.. the government looses when they fail to enact total control and create anarchy. The fact is, within the first few months of a government take over the government would have such large cassualties on both sides (civilian.. you cannot lead a nation that has no people..) that the trained personel would be gone.. killed.. you could draft.. but who? .. the ones you put in cages? .. right.

Had the Jews in Europe hid behind doors and attacked soldiers coming into their homes with knives or hammers or frying pans.. they may die but they take a man with them.. they did not have that mentality.. and I would certainly hope Americans would..

The government is not all high and mighty.. it is not invinsible.. in fact it is rather fragile.. that is why so much work goes into maintaining it.. that is why governments fear the people.. they sit in a high place that can easily be blow down.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
What makes you think that the UN and NATO and other countries would agree with, and send troops to oppress innocent American citizens? I think the rest of the world would be against it tbh





Doctrine of Odious Debts:

This debt is not an obligation for the nation; it is a regime's debt, a personal debt of the power that has incurred it, consequently it falls with the fall of this power.

Even when a despotic power is replaced by another, no less despotic or any more responsive to the will of the people, the "odious" debts of the eliminated power are not any less their personal debts and are not obligations for the new power....

link



if a overthrow is allowed all debt is void. if this indeed is the case, china will suppress the american people with all its might, to insure they get their money back. and seeing how the US has debt every where, im sure a global effort would be put forth to prevent it.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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If the government decided to attack her people, it would be a rather pathetic attempt honestly.. Lets assume at least 25% of the public arms themselves.. thats with knives.. guns.. hell lets throw in hammers and pitch forks, and big rocks. You would need 2 soldiers per human


You guys seriously believe this!


Had the Jews in Europe hid behind doors and attacked soldiers coming into their homes with knives or hammers or frying pans.. they may die but they take a man with them.. they did not have that mentality.. and I would certainly hope Americans would


Ouch...

So I take it you were there then
You seem to know exactly what it felt like to be there. All those cowards, Huh! I'm American baby Hooah!!!

I am starting to really beleive that an awful lot of Americans actually feel they are higher beings, that inside every American is a "Captain America" inside.




[edit on 17/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

[edit on 17/1/07 by Jimmy1880]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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They thought of times when they lived in England and were under the tyranical Dictatorship of the King and were not allowed to bear arms, here in America the Second Amendment was written so that when the government becomes corrupt, the people can rise up to take it back over and put it back on the right track.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:00 PM
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Destroying Pose Comitatus... I'm not 100% positive, so I won't try to answer that untruthfully.

Well, it's already destroyed... under the Defense Authorization Act of 2007.



What makes you think that the UN and NATO and other countries would agree with, and send troops to oppress innocent American citizens? I think the rest of the world would be against it

All NATO countries are for the NWO... Germany, UK, France, Canada, ect...

Populations no, but leaders yes and army... You know, the ``We have to help them, because they are in a crisis, bla bla bla.



I think the Government response to Hurricane Katrina is what was being meant by the test run. i.e. let them them suffer for longer and see what their natural reaction to it is!

Exactly, so they used that reason when they passed the defense authorization act of 2007.


That's why we have the electoral college..

Well, in Canada, we don't have the electoral college... and it's not as corrupt as the USA... but who have the electoral college and who is the most corrupt between the two? The USA...

I remind people that martial law wouldn't be declared without any crisis, like nukes going off in 2-3 cities... or some kind of thing... an alien attack...


More attacks on the first amendment the bill S1, section 200, it's already in the senate... would criminalize any critic of the congress on internet, TV or radio, when you have more than 500 listeners...

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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i agree with Jimmy1880.

i myself am an american, and i for one know many ppl with guns. i also know that should the govt want their guns they'd hand them over.

most of the population in america that has guns, has them for sport. they(generally speaking) havent the brass to refuse the govt.

as for the ratio- 2 soldiers for 1 civilian...

i have military training, tho i would never fight innocent people. im quite capable of fighting 5 civilians(with no training) by my self and thats being generous with their defensive capabilities. that is of coarse after taking all my gear that would be assisting me into account.

the fact is most civilians see war like a game. and when they realise its not a game they will crack and shut down. most of the training that soldiers go through, its to prevent or to ease him through when this occurs.


id say 1 of 10 civilians are capable to stomach war, the other nine are classed as cannon fodder.




[edit on 17-1-2007 by Glyph_D]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo



What makes you think that the UN and NATO and other countries would agree with, and send troops to oppress innocent American citizens? I think the rest of the world would be against it

All NATO countries are for the NWO... Germany, UK, France, Canada, ect...

Populations no, but leaders yes and army... You know, the ``We have to help them, because they are in a crisis, bla bla bla.



Vitchilo Hi, I agree with nearly everything you say apart from this. I dont agree the UK are part of the NWO

I beleive that the UK and the commonwealth is the old school NWO and that the "special relationship" we have with the US is as old as the US itself.

take note there are only 4 trillion dollar economy's in Europe. The UK is the only one not to use the EURO (spit)

I believe If the first american Citizens were treated better back in the day, that america would never have revolted and the US would still be in the commonwealth along with Canada. I love Canada BTW


Be safe



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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I dont agree the UK are part of the NWO

Well... Blair and Brown were at Bilderberg... a entity of the NWO, the police state is another sign of NWO, also, the participation of UK in Iraq and Afghanistan is another sign of NWO...7/7 in London was made by british intelligence, another sign of NWO... IMO, the UK have all signs of the NWO.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jimmy1880

If the government decided to attack her people, it would be a rather pathetic attempt honestly.. Lets assume at least 25% of the public arms themselves.. thats with knives.. guns.. hell lets throw in hammers and pitch forks, and big rocks. You would need 2 soldiers per human


You guys seriously believe this!


Had the Jews in Europe hid behind doors and attacked soldiers coming into their homes with knives or hammers or frying pans.. they may die but they take a man with them.. they did not have that mentality.. and I would certainly hope Americans would


Ouch...

So I take it you were there then
You seem to know exactly what it felt like to be there. All those cowards, Huh! I'm American baby Hooah!!!

I am starting to really beleive that an awful lot of Americans actually feel they are higher beings, that inside every American is a "Captain America" inside.

[edit on 17/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

[edit on 17/1/07 by Jimmy1880]


Thank you for the mature response. This is why I try and stay away from threads sponsored by ones I have blocked.


Where the Jews cowards? No. They for the most part did not know they would die where they where going.. word did not spread easily that death camps where set up. Labor camps yes.. deternment camps yes.. mass killing sites? No.

If we learn anything from history it would be that when your government tells you to get into a cattle cart.. it is best to die before getting on.

While you may be a coward, I have no way of telling and it is not really my place to say. I for one would never walk onto a cattle car.. nor would I allow anyone in my family..

You are all looking at it from a liberal point of view (yor ideologies are worn on your sleves) you think all are passifist..
how many times does it have to be proven peace is a made up state of mind.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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www.freerepublic.com...

"46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-approved firearms. A 30-day amnesty period is established for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of irregular citizen groups and defiant individuals refuse to turn over their firearms to authority.

Consider the following statement:

"I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government."

[edit on 17-1-2007 by pai mei]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:39 PM
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excellent find Pai mai



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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I will stand and fight.
This is not nazi germany yet.
This is not france where people surrender in record time.
Many more will stand and fight with me.
Resistance to oppression in the U.S. is well documented even on an indiviual basis.ie.. ruby ridge..waco need I go on.

Go ahead and flame away at the US we are used to it. When your country needs some one to fight for your freedoms who do you ask? What a place the planet would be if all the "captain americas" had sat on the sidelines for the past 100 years.

As far as more first amendment rights being taken away...read the s.1 bill it says grassroots lobbying is not included.



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