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The myth of successful armed resistance in the US in case of martial law

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posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 01:32 AM
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We've got laws against smoking marijuana, driving faster than 130kph on the highway and illegal immigration and we here in the US know how well those laws are being enforced. The soldiers in the APC will go out on there patrol stop every now and then probably to smoke and take a piss or see someone's girlfriend and the officer's back in the hootch won't poke his head out for fear of catching a bullet between the eyeballs. Nobody likes middle management.

J1880, if you think you know Americans are all like the well discplined GI's who are stationed in you're country, you sadly misinformed. Those same GI's will also turn on any officer who unneccessarily risk them on what's basically busy work. First officer that tries to issue order to shoot American civilians will likely catch a bullet in the ensuing firefight from an odd angle.

You obviously haven't lived in or visited the US for any great length of time. Americans are particularly ornery when you start pushing them in some direction they don't want to go.

As my EOD brethren used to say, " There's no problem too big or small that can't be solved with the proper ammount of explosives".




posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 01:42 AM
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Once upon a time a bunch of average folk got together and decided they were going to fight and win against a superior fighting force. Call me crazy or a romantic but I think it could very well happen again if all the right criteria were met.

I completely agree that it would be hell on earth to carry through with an armed revolt, however it most certainly can work. Sure the military has all these fancy gadgets: thermal imaging, the OCIW, Metal Storm, etc, but the problem with all that is that you have to have the chain of command in place, its how the military works. In such a situation as armed revolt anybody with some common sense would not be standing in the street fighting but making sure that every time an officer of any substantial rank poked their head out from behind cover a bullet peeled their head back. Honestly I don't think there are enough troops in the US armed forces (including those deployed in Iraq and other places currently) to properly cover and enforce the entire country. They could either run down those with class c permits (full auto licenses) or lock down the big cities, but I honestly don't think both could be done at the same time.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Jimmy1880


People in the western world have lost the natural ability to come together.
In every case of emergency in recent times people have purley relied on the Authorities and in the case of the Authorities not being able to cope or not turning up the population turns to looting, raping and murdering.

On a positive note after a certain amount of time people would find the ability to come together. But the time between "Yippee, now I can walk into Walmart and help myself to a plasma TV" to "Oh crap we all need to work together if any of us are going to survive" is all the time needed for the governments to have fullfilled their plans.

And I do wish Americans would stop going on about how heavily armed they are! So what what if you've got 10, 15, 20 or 500 million with guns!!! If martial law was announced this evening who's going magically organise all these civilians with guns into regiments of effective freedom fighters! that isn't going to happen! the most you get is some people firing potshots with his 9mm pistol at the APC's filled with 4/5 trained personell roaming the streets and that case the person firing will be shot and killed with a fully automatic M16 or .50cal

If the order was to stay indoors after sunset and anybody seen outside with be attacked with lethal force will you and maybe a couple of you buddies be outside with your pistols shouting "come and have a go if you fink ya 'ard enuff" Nah didn't think you would.

If the Government calls marshall law and they mean business, believe me it will not be a half arsed operation.


My 2pence


"You have voted Jimmy 1880 for the Way Above Top Secret award."

I could have quoted almost your entire posts on this thread as worth a second read. You have laid the truth out in a very precise and factual manner, including examples.

At times Americans act like someone in a bad love affair. Everyone on the outside can see clearly while the persons with the emotional attachment are blinded to the truth. We want to live in apathetic denial. The writing is on the wall and we know it, but we can't seem to take the action. Still waiting on that two by four to knock us in the head before we can accept the tragedy that has become this "great nation"


Sad but true..............



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by JackJuice
the patriot act is bad but give us time and we will repeal it peacefully, that's the way its been for generations.


When has that happened in US history? Wait, it once happened with Prohibition...

The American people don't care that they're getting screwed over by the government. The only time we're outraged is when there's an American Idol scandal. Why else would we allow our precious government to have a death tax? Why would we roll over and pay taxes for things we already own? Guess what, we even pay taxes on loans to the government!!

I hate to say it, but there will be no organized resistance. I don't know anybody that I can guarantee will defend their rights if the time comes, and neither do you. Alot of people will give this hero patriot bull, but until you got johnny law asking for your duck gun, you have know idea what you will do.

Some say the people in the armed forces will rebel if they're told to shoot American civilians, but I wouldn't believe it. They are told to defend this country by following orders. Social experiments have shown that when somebody is told by one in authority to do something, they do it. We have seen militaries told to kill civilians, and guess what? They killed them. The first example that comes to mind is the Soviets under Stalin, and another would be the Nazis under Hitler.

The only resistance we'll ever see in this country is walking around with signs and praying for an end to abortion. The government has already figured out how to prevent revolution in this country.

(I wish I paid more attention in my writing classes)



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:28 AM
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Jimmy, I can't restrain myself. The arguments you have produced in this thread are mostly ridiculous. Your post about Hurricane Katrina made no point. In fact, it only serves to prove how wrong you are about all of this. You yourself cited the incidents in the French Quarter in which the police and army were unable to control the looters or stop the anarchy in the streets. So you are basically saying the powers that be couldn't control the mindless citizens of New Orleans? And this is after they just sat through one of the worst hurricanes in history. SO HOW COULD THEY CONTROL THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION AFTER THE DECLARATION OF MARTIAL LAW WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN HANDLE A BUNCH OF HOMELESS HURRICANE REFUGEES? Can you imagine the sort of coast to coast anarchy that would ensue the moment martial law was declared in America? Probably not, because you think all Americans are fat and live in trailers and eat McDonald's and watch MTV all day. Well here's something for you to think about. AMERICANS ARE NOT THE MINDLESS ROBOTS YOU THINK WE ARE.

On top of all of this...your nonsense about APC's patroling the streets is so, so, so stupid. First of all, there is not enough armored infantry to patrol even a fraction of the cities in America, let alone the rural areas. And I agree with the others on here who say that few American soldiers would fire upon civilians.

And in the end, what does our government gain from all of this? Not much. They just wasted a lot of time and money killing people and rendering the work force of America useless. After all this martial law nonsense, do you really think Joe Blow is going to get up in the morning and go back to his cubicle at Megacorp, Inc?


because i dont.



History has shown us that this type of one world, conquer everything government doesn't work. Look at Babylon, Greece, Rome, Great Britain, The USSR, Nazi Germany, Communist China (granted they are still around but the communist party there is a joke), North Korea.....the list goes on and on.

First year college political science class will teach you that Power is granted, not taken. Authority is claimed, not forced.

Get a grip, man, for God's sake. You are making of fool of yourself with this sort of ignorant banter. It sickens me everytime I read something like what you have said. Your attitude of "Americans will hide under their beds" is getting old, and I, for one, will not stand for it.

*Bitter Sarcasm* It's a wonder that America, as ignorant, slothful, and stupid as you say we are, Jimmy, managed to become the most powerful nation on the planet. I ask myself how we even manage to tie our own shoes in the morning *End Bitter Sarcasm*

So before you post anymore of your mindless, anti-american, nonsense in this thread, ask yourself if you are really qualified to make these kinds of assertations about the state of a nation that you do not count yourself a citizen of.

Screw the Government. God Bless the American People



[edit on 17-1-2007 by secretsoldier]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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i still read this thread with a bit of disbelief.

non us citizens aside for now...do some of you that live in this country think it is SOOO bad right now that the time for armed revolution is upon us? do you really believe its time to renew the tree so to speak?

have you SOOO totally given up on the process that has seen us through situations as bad or worse than this in the past, that you are willing to throw it away?

im utterly shocked.

let me ask, and this is primarily to the us citizens, do any of you REALLY believe that its worse now than say, during ww2? ration stamps? wholesale detention of anyone of japanese decent? you want as close to martial law as this country has seen since lincolns age, then kids there you had it.

fine, the current administration has done crap that pisses me off as much as any american should be, but im not uncasing the firearms just yet. fwe months ago we sent a message to our govt that we were unhappy and now the new congress is in there trying to make some changes. will we be happy with all the changes? of course not, too little to late in many cases, but as was stated before, its a process. a civil one.

i stand by my statement that at heart im a pacifist. i hate the idea of a fight, but ill be damned if i walk away from one should it be the absolute last resort. but fellows, its not that time yet. we're not there yet.

to answer the question of "who will organise these militias when the time comes?" ill answer that i will should the need be there. me and countless others just like me who to this day feel that the oaths we took before god and country did NOT end when we turned in our TA-50 and let our hair grow back. others that while they never wore the uniform, posess the spirit of a warrior who will not stand by idly and let his family friends and neighbors be treated like servants to an emperor. others will take up arms simply as a means to survive not only the govt oppressors but those that would invade their homes for personal gain. there are those that have never held a gun and will grab garden tools, rocks even simple sticks to stand for their rights to exist as free people.

will those of us that would stand all survive? most certainly not. some will join the cause out of a misplaced sense of romanticism and others as a way to live out their video game induced delusions of grandeur, but along with those of us that know full well the consequenses of our choices and actions we will all risk the same fate. either a bullet in the chest or a needle in the arm.

knowing that would i still do it? you damn well right i would. because if in death i can inspire others to fight for the dream, then it wouldnt be in vain. would i do it if i knew that no one would hear of my death or even know my name? again, you better believe i would for its not a tragedy to die for your cause if you are in the right.

would i do all of this and more? absolutly. i would do things only 'evil men' do if it meant i had a chance to restore freedom to our great nation.

but not today my friends. not today. it is not the time for good men to do bad things.

today is the day for ALL people to do the RIGHT thing, and for today the right things do NOT include violence.

do i feel threatened by the govt for typing what i jsut did? do i feel like the govt is gonig to have the military come talk to me? do i feel the need to hide? nope. not at all. matter of fact, i live on an army post. my wife is carrying the badge of honor i myself had the chance to wear and if the army wants me, im a block from the post commanders office. given my past wtih them, wouldnt suprise me in teh least if someone reads this and knwos its me.

but i havnt done anything wrong legally or morally and i have nothing to hide. we still have our most precious freedoms in this great land and i shall excersise them openly.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by FsuSteveO

Originally posted by JackJuice
the patriot act is bad but give us time and we will repeal it peacefully, that's the way its been for generations.


When has that happened in US history? Wait, it once happened with Prohibition...


You do know that the patriot act is hardly an amendment to the constitution right? Infact it will expire


The Sedition Act of 1918 is sometimes compared to the USA PATRIOT Act because of the latter's perceived chilling effect on free speech. However, the Sedition Act had the explicit and specific purpose of quelling anti-government speech while the nation was at war. The Sedition Act was repealed in 1921.


I could name more instances when we have repealed things like this. However, for some reason I just don't think your open to a change of opinion. No, as i said in my last post, revolution is not something to be brought about lightly.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:06 AM
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About the starter of this thread.
I would not guaranty that if there were a resistance it would not have a success rate, my guess is that if martial law was to hit the US and a resistance was boren it would have some success not instantly, but in time.
You're forgeting how easy is to snipe, your analisis of the war in iraq is incorrect, sniperers, ploted attacks with explosives, sneak atacks, guerila tactics play an important role in iraq, just because they don't show it on tv it does not mean it isnt there, it's there and it's sure becoming an imbarasment.
Since any one can own a gun in the US, and if some one was to start some kind of resistance under the martial law then I would say there is a pretty good chance that resistance would have some success rate.
The people in neworleans were not an organisation, nothing was oragnised, no plans, nothing, this is the only reason it did not have any effect.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by secretsoldier
Jimmy, I can't restrain myself. The arguments you have produced in this thread are mostly ridiculous. Your post about Hurricane Katrina made no point. In fact, it only serves to prove how wrong you are about all of this. You yourself cited the incidents in the French Quarter in which the police and army were unable to control the looters or stop the anarchy in the streets. So you are basically saying the powers that be couldn't control the mindless citizens of New Orleans? And this is after they just sat through one of the worst hurricanes in history. SO HOW COULD THEY CONTROL THE ENTIRE AMERICAN POPULATION AFTER THE DECLARATION OF MARTIAL LAW WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN HANDLE A BUNCH OF HOMELESS HURRICANE REFUGEES? Can you imagine the sort of coast to coast anarchy that would ensue the moment martial law was declared in America? Probably not, because you think all Americans are fat and live in trailers and eat McDonald's and watch MTV all day. Well here's something for you to think about. AMERICANS ARE NOT THE MINDLESS ROBOTS YOU THINK WE ARE.

And in the end, what does our government gain from all of this? Not much. They just wasted a lot of time and money killing people and rendering the work force of America useless. After all this martial law nonsense, do you really think Joe Blow is going to get up in the morning and go back to his cubicle at Megacorp, Inc?


As far as them not being able to manages a bunch of homeless hurricane refugees, did you ever consider it could have been a TEST RUN? Work the bugs out sort of scenario.

And as far as "rendering the work force of America useless" I think outsourcing has taken care of this issue already the American work force practically has no use.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:32 AM
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You state that a successful armed resistance in the US in case of Martial Law is but a myth.

I say that because a lot of americans have turn away from freedom to making money. They don't care, as long as they make money, eat and think the way a lot of people on ATS thinks: If you have nothing to hide, why not?



That would make the ratio of gun wielding American's to US Military personnel about* 4:1

+ NATO forces, + mexicans soldiers + UN forces + mercenaries + police officers, then you have a ratio of 1:1... and in a city, you're screwed, because they have tanks. I know ATS is full of patriotics members that would fight to the death in case of dictatorship, but isn't ATS a regroupment of the ``patriot elite``?


The government knows full well that there is plenty of American citizens that have been in the military, received the same training as the active duty personnel, gotten out, and would vow to fight tooth and nail to preserve the American freedoms.

Yeah but in the military, you have a lot of equipment, you have air support, tank support, and good soldiers with you.



First yep it is actualy an offense to not carry a form of legal identification. You can actualy be detained for not having an ID.

Well not in Canada... for now.


And try and get a job without a form of ID, IE Social Security Card. State ID. It is possible but you realy don't want that job either.

Yeah, but with the ID, all is centralized, if you become ``the enemy`` you won't be able to pay with money, because that's the next stage, electronic money.



And figure out a way to fight a war without a body count and you will be a world hero.

Well... cutting electricity in major cities, (but that would be terrorism) and have people prepared with bullhorns to march on Washington... With a few dozens of people in the right place, you can do a lot of things.



You severely underestimate this country. First off, how many soldiers do you think will actually still fight when they know the constitution and bill of rights are null and void?

For a good reason the government will create, that will affect the soldiers.


How many will fight knowing their Fathers, Mothers and children are being arrested in droves?

Not arrested, protected by the government for their own security. And the family of the SS weren't arrested, they were probably on a list to protect them.


How many soldiers will kill innocent Americans just because they were told to?

That's the trick, they won't see them as americans, but terrorists or traitors.



9Mils?? Come on...we are a lot better armed than that! And once again...who exactly will be driving those APC's when most of the military deserts?

Mercenaries, NATO, mexicans, UN forces, US military maybe China's military?



Kid a little more education is due here. Take some time and research lawful and unlawful orders. I don't care what the situation is martial law, natural disaster, or whatever; just about every person in the military is capable of discerning between the two. Engaging U.S. citizens will not be taken as a lawful order.

Of course, I know that (I hope) at least of the military will turn against the government, but will it be enough? Just look at what's happening in Iraq, 3000 americans dead, over 600.000 iraqis... What happen if they say they'll nuke any city that fight against the government?



well at least you got that right. but tell me, what will happen when the guys in that apc, or the guys piloting that apache decide after examining their own concience that the administration is the domestic threat?

You know the concept DENIAL? A lot of people, to protect their own conscience, will turn in denial to avoid the shame of what they just done. Eventually, they will wake up, but how much time will it takes?



For Christ's sake, what does the events of Katrina have to do with Martial Law?

Well, an extreme situation created by an alledged foreign threat? Weather, terrorist attack...


They could either run down those with class c permits (full auto licenses) or lock down the big cities, but I honestly don't think both could be done at the same time.

That's why I think the martial law would take effect only in cities where the police state is heavy, in the country, helicopters and bombers would go.



let me ask, and this is primarily to the us citizens, do any of you REALLY believe that its worse now than say, during ww2? ration stamps? wholesale detention of anyone of japanese decent? you want as close to martial law as this country has seen since lincolns age, then kids there you had it.

Well, I know a lot of laws that the congress passed, and the president have more power than in anytime in the US history. And with HR1, the democrats have pushed the police state further. Next in their agenda, legalization of illegal immigrants and free speech restriction.

And I open the thread again with another statement, I'm not so sure that martial law will ever be imposed, it would be too obvious, because the words martial law get people angry... It will only be a spiral to dictatorship like we saw since september 2001. No martial law, just freedoms taken away more and more and more and more. In that case, will the people ever stand against it?

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:54 AM
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Martial Law will never happen NATION wide across the USA.

Dont get me wrong, Soliders have an oath, and grant there lives to the US military.

But the curroption in the whitehouse is becoming VERY obvious. Even to the blind patriots.

If Bush suddenly declared martial law, and ordered soliders to lock up, detain, interrogate or harras common white/black/hisbanic/mexican 'americans' I believe the soliders would see through the curroption, look past their duty and refuse to do such an outrageous act against theyre own countrymen.

You might get a handful of radical hardline soliders who will follow the government of bush until they die, but i believe a large % of them have a mind, have intellegence.. and would rather go awol, and help their neighbours live the 'free' life.. than assist in bringing America to its knee's.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 05:06 AM
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I find some flaws with this argument. I don't think a US soldier would nessesaraly want to fire on a US citizen. These soldiers have been trained and conditioned to fight for the freedom of US citizens. If in the case of martial law and a subsquent resistance to the government by the people that want to be free. I think that you would find that a lot more Americans know how to build a simple IED thain you think.

The problem with the numbers is this. You are talking about people that LEGALY own guns. what about the illegal weponry in the hands of people that arn't exactly friends with the law to begin with? (Read) drug dealers, gang members etc.

One guy took out half the town of Granby Colorado in June of 2004 when he built his own tank out of a bulldozer. He was only killed after the tank ran out of gas.

Man Killed in Armored Bulldozer

So if you take away all the guns Americans would still be able to put up quite a resistance against an opressive government.

Eventualy this would turn out to be a civil war. I don't think the government would be able to turn against the american people without starting one.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 05:27 AM
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One guy took out half the town of Granby Colorado in June of 2004 when he built his own tank out of a bulldozer. He was only killed after the tank ran out of gas.

Good info, but in case of martial law, don't you think they would send an Apache against it? And under martial law, you don't have all the time and secret this guy had to built it. And after one, the government would put bulldozer under heavy surveillance.

And also, the military, if not a majority of them turn against the government, the government would know their names, their families and where they live, and could block all their money in a blink of an eye...

From Tommy Franks, a general, martial law will replace constitution after the next terrorist attack... And I think the next terrorist attack would happen if impeachment hearings comes for Bush and Cheney... or if there's an opposition to the Iran's war, 2007-2008 is definetly the period for it... Even more if a third party is going strong or Ron Paul is about to get elected... Because we all know that democrats and republicans are bought to corporations, and in case of a popular third party or for-the-people candidate, they would unite against it.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
what about the illegal weponry in the hands of people that arn't exactly friends with the law to begin with? (Read) drug dealers, gang members etc.

One guy took out half the town of Granby Colorado in June of 2004 when he built his own tank out of a bulldozer. He was only killed after the tank ran out of gas.


Yeah but what are a few gangstas/backyard wannabe cowboys going to do against soldiers of the most advanced military in the world? Flash their uzis at them? The mafia and gangs response might be interesting, but they would eventually be closed down by the military with force.

The only hope would be if the majority of the military were to desert the government. Which could happen, but look what happened to deserters in Nazi Germany! Scare tactics would be employed to try and keep government support.

But if the government starts shooting at their own people, maybe more of the soldiers would come to their senses and go AWOL, and I wouldn't expect the UN/NATO/etc to be very supportive of it either.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 07:51 AM
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Yeah but what are a few gangstas/backyard wannabe cowboys going to do against soldiers of the most advanced military in the world?

Use guerilla tactics of course, look in iraq, insurgents of today were taxidrivers of last week, and they seem pretty efficient to me.



Flash their uzis at them?

tanks are highly vulnerable in urban areas, they don't provide protection because they move pretty slow, they are efficient in a open field area where it has time to acquire it's target from a distant point.
So I would say, in a urban area such as a city tanks are kind of useless.



The only hope would be if the majority of the military were to desert the government. Which could happen, but look what happened to deserters in Nazi Germany! Scare tactics would be employed to try and keep government support.

What happened in iraq can very well happen in the US, insurgency is not very dificult to activate.
Soldiers are not trained for guerilla tactics, only special units are trained for such things, the regular GI has no such training,inurgency seems to be functioning in iraq, so why don't you think it could be possible in the US?
American insurgents would also have an advantage, they already have weapons, they don't have to smuggle them from over the border from mexico or other countries.


[edit on 17-1-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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just one littler point I am to make here.

What If . . . What if . . . our own government is building its own private force . . .

No necessarily in uniform. . . but we all know how much the bush administration is favoring private mercenaries to do security jobs.

After all everything can be privatized including the security of our nation.

Money moves you know the rest, is all about money and some have pleanty.

I wonder.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
What happen if they say they'll nuke any city that fight against the government?


ok my first reaction to that was to spit soda all over my monitor laughing so hard.

then i decided something.

im done with this thread. it was an interesting intellectual excersise for a while and made me and no doubt a few others stop and really analyze our selves.

but now its painfully apparent that as you bring up ideas that you may find to be valid, and we answer them...youre running out of ideas so you are just making crap up and reaching wayyyyyyyy far for it.

you kids play nice, im out. peace



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Damocles

OK my first reaction to that was to spit soda all over my monitor laughing so hard.


Well I am glad you didn't spill your soda on that monitor you need it to be able to read the crap that obviosly you think people is making in this thread.



im done with this thread.


No problem with that.

But let me remind you that this is a cospiracy topic and . . . opinion can be made and can be refute, analyzed and dispute.

Now is not fair for people that are interested in this topic to be told that is crap what they post and that their ideas are up and reaching Way far.

Because you do not agree with the post and ideas.

Is a conspiracy remember, BTW no everybody here are kids like you say.




posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 09:03 AM
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Damocles, what do you think of my ``plan`` of peaceful revolution?



Well... cutting electricity in major cities, (but that would be terrorism) and have people prepared with bullhorns to march on Washington... With a few dozens of people in the right place, you can do a lot of things.

Would it work? You blow up majors electrical centers, then people goes in the streets, you remember when there was a major black-out in New York 2 years ago? People were all over the streets... ready to manipulate.
For the good cause of course.



ok my first reaction to that was to spit soda all over my monitor laughing so hard.

It was just a stupid idea... it was to test reactions.. well, it didn't work


The problem is that if you start a resistance, you'll need some people who work in the system because if not, you won't have food, and you need people in the ``country`` that will help you and shelter you, because you won't last long without being caught in the cities and you won't hide in the woods for all the time the resistance will last...

And some of you who don't know about the Milgram experiment, people, under an authority, can harm other people they don't know...

Is a false democracy, like the US, harder to overthrow than a brutal dictatorship? IMO, yes.

[edit on 17-1-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
I say that because a lot of americans have turn away from freedom to making money. They don't care, as long as they make money, eat and think the way a lot of people on ATS thinks: If you have nothing to hide, why not?

True, however, when faced with the lack of being able to make money, I would guess a lot of American's would snap out of their trance and take sides.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
+ NATO forces, + mexicans soldiers + UN forces + mercenaries + police officers, then you have a ratio of 1:1... and in a city, you're screwed, because they have tanks. I know ATS is full of patriotics members that would fight to the death in case of dictatorship, but isn't ATS a regroupment of the ``patriot elite``?

NATO forces, UN forces, mercenaries, and police (which ever ones wouldn't convert) would also be included in the remaining 225,000,000 as I described. It's still 4:1


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yeah but in the military, you have a lot of equipment, you have air support, tank support, and good soldiers with you.

And I'm sure the currently active military personnel that traded sides would bring a few arms, as well.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Yeah, but with the ID, all is centralized, if you become ``the enemy`` you won't be able to pay with money, because that's the next stage, electronic money.

Very Very True, although needlessly put into this topic. Martial Law = no concern for $$$.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well... cutting electricity in major cities, (but that would be terrorism) and have people prepared with bullhorns to march on Washington... With a few dozens of people in the right place, you can do a lot of things.

Yeah, in the time of Martial Law... that would do one thing for sure... make a lot of easy targets.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
For a good reason the government will create, that will affect the soldiers.

I doubt all US soldiers will continue to fight on the side of the Government, when they swore to uphold the Constitution. They swore to fight against terrorists, foreign and domestic, which could include the government, too.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Not arrested, protected by the government for their own security. And the family of the SS weren't arrested, they were probably on a list to protect them.

Martial Law scenario... they wouldn't be protected... they would be a POW.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
That's the trick, they won't see them as americans, but terrorists or traitors.

They will see the fighting American citizens as terrorists/traitors until they realize that they are fighting against their Constitution.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Mercenaries, NATO, mexicans, UN forces, US military maybe China's military?

Maybe you're on to something there. Currently, the US is fighting in Iraq, as a lot of people would agree we are fighting their Civil War. Who's to say they aren't setting presidence for future incursions, even on US soil? Good point there.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Of course, I know that (I hope) at least of the military will turn against the government, but will it be enough? Just look at what's happening in Iraq, 3000 americans dead, over 600.000 iraqis... What happen if they say they'll nuke any city that fight against the government?

That would bring in more of the remaining 225,000,000 people into the "rebellion".


Originally posted by Vitchilo
You know the concept DENIAL? A lot of people, to protect their own conscience, will turn in denial to avoid the shame of what they just done. Eventually, they will wake up, but how much time will it takes?

Your guess is as good as anyone's. Hopefully sooner than later.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well, an extreme situation created by an alledged foreign threat? Weather, terrorist attack...

During the Katrina fiasco... Martial Law was not declared. It was declared a Federal Disaster Area... just the same as Kansas (where I'm from), Nebraska, and Oklahoma just this winter.


Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.
source

As shown here, Bush was asking the state to let the Federal Government take over. The situation wasn't bad enough for the Government to "just step in". Regardless, it wasn't martial law being declared. That's still a bad example.



Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well, I know a lot of laws that the congress passed, and the president have more power than in anytime in the US history. And with HR1, the democrats have pushed the police state further. Next in their agenda, legalization of illegal immigrants and free speech restriction.

Very true. That's why I began this: Petition and this: website (don't knock it, I'm new at the web design thing
) as means of attempting to do the "peaceable" beginnings of making changes. I also write my Congresspeople weekly. I also spend lots of time talking outside the digital world with people to try and get people to open their eyes to the ongoings of our government.

I have and do continue to try.


Originally posted by Vitchilo
And I open the thread again with another statement, I'm not so sure that martial law will ever be imposed, it would be too obvious, because the words martial law get people angry... It will only be a spiral to dictatorship like we saw since september 2001. No martial law, just freedoms taken away more and more and more and more. In that case, will the people ever stand against it?

Yes, they will be sneaky about it... I agree with you here, again.

[edit on 1/17/2007 by Infoholic]




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