The myth of successful armed resistance in the US in case of martial law

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
Your founding Fathers are no longer relevent. America and Americans are VERY different today!

So you are implying the Constitution is no longer relevant? We have a nation today that was formed on their ideas. This nation strives day to day from those said ideals. They are very relevant.

our founding fathers are very relevant
maybe not to all but to some
the founding fathers did not have a numbers advantage either


as far as being invincible when we get our asses kicked on our own soil we will stop being arrogant

[edit on 16/1/2007 by shooterbrody]

"You have voted Vitchilo for the Way Above Top Secret award."

Excellent post.

Two steps forward, one step back. Distraction. Misdirection. Divide and conquer. Double-speak.

Most people don't know what these words mean. And unforunately, certain programs that have been in existance to slowly dumb down the populace, incite apathy and criminality, confuse gender roles and ruin families, drug use/psychiatric abuses... the list goes on- and they have won the battle.

Our middle class supports the troops, and most will not go to war with their own. Certain groups will go to war, but the chances of success are minute. The USA is the most efficient military to ever walk this planet that we know of second to the efficiency of the Nazi's. There is no winning with violence.

I myself have friends in law enforcement and military, and i'm sorry to say, I won't go to war with or against them. Ethics and allegiences aside, i'd be really good- but not as good as them. I'd be looking at death from a 5.56 or worse.

Call me a coward, call me names, but as much as I love weapons and stuff that makes loud noises and being one of the guys, violence rarely solves anything. Violence is a repetitive circle, and if Earth had a conscious (does it?) it would be sick of it already.

If I didn't have the goals I have that outweigh all else, I would fight. But those goals are never going away, under no circumstance, and i'm not going to fight here and risk my life.

Will I stay when things go bad? Nope. As far as I am concerned, the founding father's USA ended in 1913. The land of the free ended before most even knew it was gone.

My goal is to live in Europe, far away from this mess.

So yes OP, even though your post seems motiviational, the title is correct in the case of me.

edit: grammatical error

[edit on 16-1-2007 by jaguarmike]

Originally posted by Infoholic

So you are implying the Constitution is no longer relevant?

It is relevant to the hard working American people.

We have a nation today that was formed on their ideas. This nation strives day to day from those said ideals. They are very relevant.

Our nation Was founded on Ideas, now they have become ideologies, but the ideals has been corroded by the same powers that we get to elect every 4 and 6 years in our nation.

The ideas now ideologies are relevant for those that still cling to them, but for the ones in power they take upon themselves to use them as they seems fit for personal agendas, not for the good of the nation and the people that they swear to respect and protect alone with the constitution.

Originally posted by marg6043
It is relevant to the hard working American people.

Wrong. The Constitution is relevant to every American citizen.

Originally posted by marg6034
Our nation Was founded on Ideas, now they have become ideologies, but the ideals has been corroded by the same powers that we get to elect every 4 and 6 years in our nation.

The ideas now ideologies are relevant for those that still cling to them, but for the ones in power they take upon themselves to use them as they seems fit for personal agendas, not for the good of the nation and the people that they swear to respect and protect alone with the constitution.

That is very true, however, "ideologies" aside, those ideas are still strong in the heart of American and it's people... those ideas have just been forgotten.

The "elected" are the cancer on this nation. The only way to fix it is to vote each and every single one of them out (if the voting process still works, that is). Vote them out, then make it so that no more than one single term can be served, as to root out the "professional" politicians.

Originally posted by jaguarmike
My goal is to live in Europe, far away from this mess.

I'm very sorry to burst your bubble, but Europe isn't "all that far from this mess". European citizens have it just as bad, if not worse, than that of the American citizens.

Originally posted by bsbray11
anything in nature bothers to punish me for what some may consider "bad".
[edit on 16-1-2007 by bsbray11]

If we ran by the laws of nature, that would dictate:

In nature, there IS no right or wrong, only consequences


Maybe we need to...



AB1

Originally posted by shooterbrody
our founding fathers are very relevant

maybe not to all but to some
the founding fathers did not have a numbers advantage either


as far as being invincible when we get our asses kicked on our oun soil we will stop being arrogant

The Founding fathers were VERY relevent to the frontier beginnings of the USA. In fact thats the only reason the right to bear arms exists, because the frontier times in the USA were very dangerous and people who built a homestead needed to be able to protect themselves. Because even in those days it was every man for himself!

If you READ the argument the American citizens DO have the advantage of numbers!!!

Oh yeah and please keep going on about your precious constitution, I didn't exactly see your civilian commandoes storm the streets and take the government down when the patriot act was introduced. The patriot act being the bigggest kick in balls your constitution has ever seen

Thanks God i live in Europe, where we don't get hard on's over firearms

Well "jimmy" allow me to give you a little history lesson.

Our founding fathers came from a land where only those of "high" birth were allowed to keep and bear arms. With this in mind the founding fathers installed the 2nd ammendment; to ensure the government would not be able to run roughshod over the people. This is one of the most important rights in our constitution. This ,in my opinion, is why we have not had a dictator in the U.S. in the last 200 or so years; as opposed to many countries in your so loved europe.

I am glad we in the U.S. have our constitution and our guns. If we didn't the world would be a very different place; perhaps all those of jewish decent would have been slaughtered and your country would have burned all the computers too. Or at the least allowed censored access to the internet.

oh my god, where to start...


first of all, as a gun owner and a former soldier i have kind of a MPD issue with this topic.

as a gun owner you damn right i would stand and die if necessary were the govt to put boots on the street. yes, i would stand against my own brothers in that event as anyone of my bretheren who were standing against me gave up their rights to call this their home. us troops on our soil is an unlawful act and it is their DUTY to refuse said orders. but i dont forsee such an event. not because im so naieve as to think that the order couldnt be given, but that becuase if it was suddenly "us" against "them" then "we" we suddenly get a whole crop of new toys when entire battallions of soldiers joined us on the right side of the street.

as a soldier you better believe id have bit the hand that fed me in a heartbeat as would several hundred other soldiers i served with over the 12 years i was in.

i wasnt in NO after the storm, but guess where i was on 9-11. guarding my own home and the homes of my neighbors and we were ALL excersising our rights under the 2nd amendment. in honesty, we were as well armed as i ever was in the military short of the artillery. god i love the 2nd.

ok, so the war in iraq is largely against people using IED's. well guess what. the US mililtary has produced 1000's of us who are as well versed at guerilla warfare as any insurgent. id put my IED's up against the best iran had to offer any time any where. do you think for one second the govts forgotten this? sure, im probably higher on the 'watch list' than most due to my last assignment, but i also know how to pretty much disappear at will. its not as hard as you think. trust me on that one.

so, im glad we have so many members who dont live in the US so well versed on our culture, but i think your assesments are sadly falling short. im sorry to see we have so many members that are us citizens that have so little faith in their neighbors. im not saying everyone will stand, im not saying most will stand. im saying enough of us would that we dont have to worry a whole lot. im not one to incite revolution because honestly, im a pacifist at heart and i feel that violence is the last refuge of the incompetant (quick, someone tell me where that quote is from and you get a virtual cookie) but when it comes to it, there are times when incompetance is the only cure for ignorance.

oh, btw, if europeans had the 'hard on' for guns that some of us in the US do 60 years ago or so, then maybe just maybe france, poland and a few others wouldnt have had the problems they did, hell maybe germany wouldnt have let the nazi's rise so high as to be able to plunge the country into the mess it did in the first place. consider that?

To continue on the subject, the problem is that with a technological police state, if you shoot a police officer, the army or anyone, they have your face, your bank account, and they know who are your friends and your family... As someone in congress said, in the bill legalizing torture, they were allowed to crush small children intimes parts to get informations from their parents. If they can torture children, they can torture anyone, and I don't think they would mind taking your little sister and torture her until she gives informations or that you surrender.

The point is that at the very moment you enter the ``resistance`` your family and your friends are at risk of being jailed, killed or tortured. In Iraq, when someone is in the resistance, they don't know their family nor their friends, so it's much more difficult to affect the resistance by the ``dirty`` way.

Also, the new equipment that the army and police are developping, the micro-waves guns and those kind of things, if a major riot happen and they use those micro-waves guns on people, saying it's non-lethal, what will you do? Accept it? Shoot at police?

The facts are that since 2001, the US has become more and more a police state, but I don't know when the US population will say enough is enough...

My goal is to live in Europe, far away from this mess.

Europe, with Angela Merkel in Germany, soon a fascist in France, Blair and his next buudy Brown in UK... in Europe, it's a mess, maybe even more than in US, an example, just yesterday, in France, they passed a law that sentence you to jail for 6 months if you don't want your kids to be vaccinated. Would you like that kind of laws in the USA? Mercury is good for your children's brains.

And I'm pretty sure that NATO soldiers along with mercenaries would take care of the US population. Also, it's not for nothing that the US military wants mexicans to join the army.

Also, in all history, all resistance were only joined by a maximum of 20% of the population, and their success rate was only 4%, but the only victories of a resistance in the whole history were during the 20th century.

hell maybe germany wouldnt have let the nazi's rise so high as to be able to plunge the country into the mess it did in the first place. consider that?

And the germans were armed, very well. But they believed in Hitler, and were on denial, that's what caused their dictatorship.

Now, would you agree that nazi germany was a dictatorship? Yes? The germans were armed but did nothing. And Hitler said himself that if he had the technology we would have 50 years after, with all the propaganda, he would have won world war 2.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The facts are that since 2001, the US has become more and more a police state, but I don't know when the US population will say enough is enough...

The population will fall under any regime no matter what, because is for the good of the people and the nation.

Anybody else that resist are nothing than terrorist against their own country.

No wonder laws, patriot act and regulations has been enacted to made sure that the people in this country will not turn ugly on the powers that rule this nation.

Only in masses can the people now do something about it.

One, two voices or even a crowd are bound to suffer failure if raising against whatever the administrations in this country are doing.

Scary how things are done to undermind the same constitution that is there to protect us, just change the wording and the intention and you will be an enemy of the state, a danger to your nation and your fellow American citizens and somebody that can not live within the rest of the peaceful society.

There are millions of folks like myself who are ex-military and very fed up with the direction that the current Administration has taken the country: into ruin. If they do something as stupid as declare martial nationally for anything less than full scale invasion or nuclear war, there will be massive civil disobedience and in some cases, armed urban conflict. If some military forces remain loyal to the Administration(which I doubt they will), they will never fire on civilian crowds unless they are fired upon. Many in Congress( his own party,too) are fed up with their incompetence, Congress will call for their impeachment and remember the military swears first to the Constitution and the Executive branch second.

- ID cards. You have had them for years. Its called a Drivers license.

Yea.. but not like the ones we are about to have.. National id tied into a global database? What's next.. Global id?

marg6043 I applore you for using the facts and writing the truth, I wish more of your fellow countrymen could be open enough to see the cold hard facts just under their noses and stop using this romantic notion that having a constitution means that they're free.

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
marg6043 I applore you for using the facts and writing the truth,

Thanks, is going to be a time in the near future that even talking about the truth will be going against your nation, because that is how things are heading.

We enjoy a freedom that is nothing more than an illusion . . .

You are allowed to exercise freedom of speech until you become to vocal. . .

When you become too vocal you attract attention . . .

When you attract attention others listen and start thinking . . .

When people start thinking they become angry with the situations that rules their lives . . .

They become an angry mob and demand answers . . .

Then they become enemies of the government and the government deal with them as seems fit . . .

Under the laws and regulations that the same government have enacted to control exactly what freedoms people have to begin with.

That is the day that the constitution will truly die.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by marg6043]

"The constitution's just a piece of paper." - GWB

Armed revolt's over-rated, look at Iraq. If you really want to scare them stop using credit cards and living in debt.

The consumer base is a most powerful tool for swaying market trends.

Could repeal the Patriot Act, and throw out the laws that negate amendment rights - but we've already become our enemy.

Enough people scared enough of the rabid Muslim militants that even questioning the Patriot Act is viewed by many as unpatriotic and assumed a paranoid function on behalf of the misinformed or guilty.

That frog is cooked.

When the North American Union comes, to refresh memory, they started the construction of the NAFTA highway this year, they'll want a new constitution, nullyfying the US constitution... isn't this a form of martial law?

Originally posted by Vitchilo
When the North American Union comes, to refresh memory, they started the construction of the NAFTA highway this year, they'll want a new constitution, nullyfying the US constitution... isn't this a form of martial law?

I don't think it's a form of Martial Law (I could very well be mistaken). It just simply means that before the 3 countries join as the union, a new constitution will have to be written. Soon as it passes through congress, the current constitution is out the window.

With that being said, think about what they will have on this new constitution. Currently, there's plenty of evidence to show they don't want us to have weapons, they don't want us to have our freedom of speech, they don't want us to have a voice in the government (means no more voting)... all these things together point at one thing... a totalitarian dictatorship will be formed. The police state Bushy boy's been working on (for the Illuminati of course) will have an open door to walk through with no one to oppose them coming through.

Think about it.

Freedom is more than an illusion; if you doubt that you obviously have not been to a country that does not have it.
More tiresome America bashing from people who claim thier existence would be so much better off in Europe, Cuba, South Africa or some other God-forsaken place with out even the pretence of due process or rule of law.
Your chances of being pulled off the street and "disappeared" in the USA by a government authority are miniscule compared to countries as civilized as France.
Taking weapons from people is always going to go well for a armed, trained paramilitary.
But does even a paranoid poster here believe a thousand Ruby Ridges and Waco's staged here would be passively accepted by the American people?
Think again.