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It's time to stop digging and take a step back...

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posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 01:29 AM
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I'm sure this question is on many UFOlogist's lips. Why, if they are Alien beings, are they taking so long to make positive contact? If they are secret military craft, then why isn't the technology being used for more constructive purposes?

I've been interested in this subject for as long as i can remember. I've seen every documentary worth watching on the subject, seen all the 'real' videos, had a couple of UFO sightings of my own. The thing is, none of this really matters.

We can all research this subject to death and come up with conclusions, but the fact is that it seems we aren't the ones in control of the situation. They are, whoever they may be.

They've been coming here for the past 100 years in modern history, and there are countless accounts of visitors in our ancient past. If this is really the case then i've come to the conclusion that whatever or whoever they are they aren't interested in 'making contact', they are just going about their own business. For all we know they could have been here before human kind even existed, so we really have no right to question their presence here.

Since i joined ATS a few months ago i've read countless topics regarding 'disclosure'. I really don't think we have any say over disclosure. I'm coming from the conservative angle that these craft have NEVER made contact with any government on Earth, let alone go into business with any. They are just unexplained craft in our skies.

What i am trying to say is that we should all stop looking for 'disclosure', stop trying to second guess things and just go back to the point where these things amazed and interested us. Don't let the copious amounts of hoaxes bother you, don't let your opinion be changed by anyone ridiculing the science, just accept things as they are.

When you study something too long you lose the magic of it, and that is what i'm trying to save. I think it is really a phenomenon out of our control that we should just sit back and admire as it unfolds. Be proud that you are alive to see such marvels.




posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 02:48 AM
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I agree 100% with your points of view.

One thing that many posters find hard to understand is that country governments change, sometimes nations do not have diplomatic relationships among them, and others are totally hostile among them. How in this climate one can held a global secret of this magnitude, involving different governments and many persons, during half a century is beyond me. Specially when, time after time, they have been known to be unable to hide the smallest secrets. To give you an example: if governments know so much about ET existence, what helds Iran, Cuba or North Korea from making a disclosure? Or France, or Libia, or China? This countries seem unable to agree among them and the US in much simpler sujects!

Since I believe that something or someone is really "out there", and that many military/commercial pilots cannot be hallucinating, I strongly believe that whoever is behind UFO's is not interested in making contact. Not interested at all. If no one has ever knocked in the door and officially presented himself, what would you disclose? That you know close to nothing? That you can only speculate like the best of us?

To give you an example: here in Spain, there's have been some extremely interesting UFO cases. Some of them involved Mirage F1 military pilots chasing UFOs, with ground observers, like the one in Manises. They even tried to lock their fire control radar against the UFO, and were unable to lock it, but were in turn locked by it (as in their radar warning receivers going crazy). The pilot involved in the chase has been intereviewed many times on TV. The Spanish Air Forces generals have talked about it. But the only thing they can tell you is that they don't know what it was, but it was clearly not a weather phenomenom. And they sound totally sincere: they are telling you all they know.

I imagine that they may sound secretive about the subject, because in truth you are telling your citizens that something is capable of overflying your airspace without you being capable of doing much. And that whoever is doing it, has never taken too much time to say hello.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Celtibero]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
Why, if they are Alien beings, are they taking so long to make positive contact?

There can be a load of reasons.

They could be worried they would disrupt our social/economic system; They could be 'prohibited' from making that sort of contact, through protocols/rules set by their own or other alien species; They could be so evolved and advanced that they study us like we study animals and have about the same interest in 'making contact' as we do with a colony of ants; and so on and so on.

Hell, for all I know, they could even be afraid of us!
Think of it this way: If you were the aliens, watching humans on Earth, would you be willing to making contact?

I'm not so sure I would.




If they are secret military craft, then why isn't the technology being used for more constructive purposes?

For obvious military advantages?
Sorry, but if you think that if the military had such technological advancements they would share it with the 'civilian world' for the greater good, you're living in wonderland





Since i joined ATS a few months ago i've read countless topics regarding 'disclosure'. I really don't think we have any say over disclosure. I'm coming from the conservative angle that these craft have NEVER made contact with any government on Earth, let alone go into business with any. They are just unexplained craft in our skies.

I can't say for certain that they haven't made any contact with any government on Earth, because that would depend on each person's definition of contact.

If your definition means trading technology, I have a hard time believing we've had 'contact'.

If your definition of 'contact' means chasing these craft, and perhaps even shooting them down and trying to figure out how they work, then yes, I believe we have had 'contact'.

One thing is for sure, the Government knows alot more than it's telling us on the subject, which to me means one of two things:

- There has been contact and they are covering it up for some reason; or
- There has been no contact, in the sense that they have no idea what are they, where they're from, what are their intentions, and don't want to admit it.

I feel compelled to embrace the first



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by danx
For obvious military advantages?


If these are secret military aircraft, why weren't they employed, let's say, in Vietnam? The US lost that war, and in the process, almost 60.000 soldiers were killed in the south-east asia. Why wouldn't you employ such wonder machines to destroy ARVN supplies in the Ho-chi-min route? Why not zap ARVN regiments and division and VietCong patrols? Why employ slow, clumsy things like A1 Skyraiders and F-5's for close air support, if you have a machine that can get into the area at Mach 20?

Or during 9-11... why not employ these machines to interecept the airplanes that were targetted against NY and Washington? Why scramble only F-16's, if you don't even know how serious the threat is?

Or now in Afganisthan and Iraq, which both are starting to sound as loosing wars... why not employ these machines against the Talibans, that are costantly crossing and hiding near the Pakistan border? Are such machines so secret that it's better to loose wars (and worldwide credibility), than risk disclosing their existence.

In addition to that, modern commercial aviation uses high-altiude IFR jet routes, that are precisely known and published worldwide. A military prototype wouldn't have any trouble staying away from commercial routes, avoiding encounters with commercial jets? Why would these prototypes buzz a Boeing 747 loaded with passengers and put them in risk (as for example, happened to the Japanese 747 over Alaska)? What kind of military pilot or procedure would do that?

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Celtibero]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:49 AM
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After watching the disclosure project and hearing so may other accounts out there I find it hard to believe that the US government does not have crafts and bodies as has been alluded to.

And I disagree that we should "step back" and "stop looking for 'disclosure'":
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Miah]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:56 AM
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I don't think it is the whole government per se, but a side group that is link to the government or a private firm. Kind of like the Federal Reserve. Power and controlling makes many major decisions for the Government, but is completely private.

Yes I believe they have the technology, and they are not using it for the greater purpose of mankind. This is a sad thing indeed.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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I'm sure this question is on many UFOlogist's lips. Why, if they are Alien beings, are they taking so long to make positive contact? If they are secret military craft, then why isn't the technology being used for more constructive purposes?


Perhaps positive contact is not what they desire? That's just our wishful thinking. The evidence is sadly, in another direction. UFOs were a phenomenon before a lot of our secret craft development, so that's an unlikely answer, but if not used constructively, you can bet we'd use it destructively, and that hasn't occurred either, so again, likely not the answer.



I've been interested in this subject for as long as i can remember. I've seen every documentary worth watching on the subject, seen all the 'real' videos, had a couple of UFO sightings of my own. The thing is, none of this really matters.


The acknowledgement of sentient life outside our own doesn't matter?



We can all research this subject to death and come up with conclusions, but the fact is that it seems we aren't the ones in control of the situation. They are, whoever they may be.


They, being two parties. The aliens...and those who conspire to keep them a secret. Either party can end the secrecy at any time if they wish. After keeping it for well over half a century though, it is doubtful they will anytime soon.



They've been coming here for the past 100 years in modern history, and there are countless accounts of visitors in our ancient past. If this is really the case then i've come to the conclusion that whatever or whoever they are they aren't interested in 'making contact', they are just going about their own business. For all we know they could have been here before human kind even existed, so we really have no right to question their presence here.


That's a logical conclusion, that does seem to fit the facts. So then, what do they want? I'm not so sure I'm eager for the answer....



Since i joined ATS a few months ago i've read countless topics regarding 'disclosure'. I really don't think we have any say over disclosure. I'm coming from the conservative angle that these craft have NEVER made contact with any government on Earth, let alone go into business with any. They are just unexplained craft in our skies.


That is one angle. But, even if some element in government did know, it doesn't mean that we the people have the power to change it. We've gladly given up our power for safety....as of late, but even decades ago.



What i am trying to say is that we should all stop looking for 'disclosure', stop trying to second guess things and just go back to the point where these things amazed and interested us. Don't let the copious amounts of hoaxes bother you, don't let your opinion be changed by anyone ridiculing the science, just accept things as they are.


Good advice, but no reason not to attempt to educate others on the evidence.



When you study something too long you lose the magic of it, and that is what i'm trying to save. I think it is really a phenomenon out of our control that we should just sit back and admire as it unfolds. Be proud that you are alive to see such marvels.


You'll never "control" it, so best you can do is acknowledge the reality, or at least the perception of it.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 11:55 AM
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I honestly am almost getting sick of arguing the same points with people that are so closed-minded that if they seen an alien in person they would think it is a Hollywood prank. The reason I advocate alien disclosure is because I myself have seen an alien craft. My rational is that other people have seen the same thing and are telling the truth about many accounts because I myself have seen what was undeniably an alien spacecraft up close . I am an advocate for the truth and I seen what I have seen with witnesses. Of course there are people that are blatantly lying about there accounts, but that rings true about any type of reporting. There are false and true accounts.
Here is my account and reason I study the subject.
Let me first state that I have no mental illnesses or ailments. I have no need to lie about anything because there is no personal gain from this besides trying to inform people of the truth which I feel I am obligated to do because simply it is the truth.
It was an August day, 3 years ago and I was at a park in Stoughton Ma. playing a game of football with 10 buddies. Now let me state this. I had no interest whatsoever in the UFO phenomenon and extraterrestrial civilizations before this incident. I was never was and still am not a fan of Science Fiction and was skeptical about alien life being able to reach us. I am a so-called jock and sports fiend(Go Pats!.) Anyway we were in the middle of playing our second game around 4:30 PM and I was running a out post pattern. In the middle of running a post pattern something grabbed my attention. Everybody that I was playing with was not running and staring over the treeline in the opposite direction. There 200 yards away was a clearcut UFO. This was a about ft. 30 diameter silver metallic object that looked kind of glassy textured and it kept still but the odd thing is it was kept fading from blurry looking to solid. Then about 10 seconds later it completely dematerialized. The irony of it all was I thought I was going to be rich because I happened to have a video camera in my car at the time. It disappeared so quickly that I gave me no chance to get any evidence. We never reported it because we agreed that there would be no point seeing that the government would obviously deny the happening. I didn't need any unwanted bull# from this.. After that day I became so entranced on finding out the truth and studying the phenomenon. Ask yourself honestly. What would make a skeptic who had no interest in the subject turn a complete 180 overnight?

As a former skeptic I did not understand the complexity of the subject because I had never fully researched it. I was ignorant of the subject at hand because I didn't understand the reality behind the matter. Now that I have researched the subject and almost everything that has to do with Ufology and the study of extraterrestrial civilizations I realized that if I only took the time to look at this stuff I would have known that it was a reality. The arguments skeptics post are downright idiotic if you ask me. Swamp gas, mass hallucinations, weather balloons. The stupidity behind the answers almost makes you wonder if they are paid for given this type of analysis. How can a solid craft being intelligently controlled be mistakened for a swamp gas?
Another area I became interested in is advanced propulsion. I have a few buddies that are professors at MIT that can prove you wrong saying that traveling the speed of light is impossible. Pay attention to scientific advances anti-gravity propulsion systems are no mystery anymore.
This brings me to another point that the crafts are US government built. This totally contradicts the statement of "Oh they cannot get here because the distance is too far.". If we are able to build these types of craft than who says that another technological civilization can't do the same thing. Enough Said.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Incognito C]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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I had another message posted here but have since moved it to another thread as it was veering off topic to the subject matter of this thread.

But just want to thank Incognito for sharing with us your story and how you changed from a skeptic to a believer. And although there are a lot of believers out there who themselves have never seen a UFO yet they nevertheless are certain that UFO's are real because they've spent much time studying this subject matter, there's nothing that beats actually seeing one to know with absolute certainty that UFO's do exist and that their technology is so far advanced, it boggles the mind to think that our gov't's have the capability to manufacture such crafts. In fact, I would say that it's more mind boggling to think that this is the case than to even entertain the notion and believe that UFO's are created, owned and operated by ET's as really when it comes down to it, this explanation for some weird reason seems so much more plausible!





[edit on 16-1-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Celtibero

Originally posted by danx
For obvious military advantages?


If these are secret military aircraft, why weren't they employed, let's say, in Vietnam? The US lost that war, and in the process, almost 60.000 soldiers were killed in the south-east asia. Why wouldn't you employ such wonder machines to destroy ARVN supplies in the Ho-chi-min route? Why not zap ARVN regiments and division and VietCong patrols? Why employ slow, clumsy things like A1 Skyraiders and F-5's for close air support, if you have a machine that can get into the area at Mach 20?

Or during 9-11... why not employ these machines to interecept the airplanes that were targetted against NY and Washington? Why scramble only F-16's, if you don't even know how serious the threat is?

Or now in Afganisthan and Iraq, which both are starting to sound as loosing wars... why not employ these machines against the Talibans, that are costantly crossing and hiding near the Pakistan border? Are such machines so secret that it's better to loose wars (and worldwide credibility), than risk disclosing their existence.

In addition to that, modern commercial aviation uses high-altiude IFR jet routes, that are precisely known and published worldwide. A military prototype wouldn't have any trouble staying away from commercial routes, avoiding encounters with commercial jets? Why would these prototypes buzz a Boeing 747 loaded with passengers and put them in risk (as for example, happened to the Japanese 747 over Alaska)? What kind of military pilot or procedure would do that?

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Celtibero]


Wow this is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL! ALMOST WORD FOR WORD! It defies my logic, but I'm just a mere human tring to understand it all myself, excellent post! Thanks for making me feel not so alone...but maybe the Goverment wanted to lose those wars for some larger gain in the future? Who knows my friend.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 06:36 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

As said above, it is just one take on the issue, just my opinion.

My purpose to this topic was just to try and stop the constant stream of '[insert idea] can get disclosure'!

If we were going to achieve 'disclosure' it would have been done by now. Look at the work Greer has done. I think that if a press conference attended by mass media and high ranking officials 'coming clean' doesn't produce any reaction then nothing we as a group can do will make any more of an impact.

As far as the question about what i regarded as 'contact', i do not believe the government and an alien intelligence are in 'contact' with each other. They may have made contact in the form of tracking them on radar or scrambling fighters to intercept a UFO, but i don't think they have actually contacted each other on purpose.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
Thanks for the replies.

As said above, it is just one take on the issue, just my opinion.

My purpose to this topic was just to try and stop the constant stream of '[insert idea] can get disclosure'!

If we were going to achieve 'disclosure' it would have been done by now. Look at the work Greer has done. I think that if a press conference attended by mass media and high ranking officials 'coming clean' doesn't produce any reaction then nothing we as a group can do will make any more of an impact.

As far as the question about what i regarded as 'contact', i do not believe the government and an alien intelligence are in 'contact' with each other. They may have made contact in the form of tracking them on radar or scrambling fighters to intercept a UFO, but i don't think they have actually contacted each other on purpose.


fooffstarr, do you feel that the Disclosure Project was a waste of time?



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Miah
fooffstarr, do you feel that the Disclosure Project was a waste of time?


No i don't.

I think it is the biggest step to disclosure taken. I'm just saying that if something that big can't produce dramatic results, which it hasn't, what can we as a community do? It is pointless to speculate about what we 'could' do because it wouldn't happen.

After reading your topic about disclosure, i am also thinking of the worldwide implications of it. If 'disclosure' occurred and it was revealed that UFOs were all just top secret craft, than you'd have one very angry President.

If, on the other hand, you discovered that ETs had been visiting Earth and using us like cattle, then the Earth would basically descend into anarchy. The people would no longer trust their governments, let alone go to them for protection.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr

Originally posted by Miah
fooffstarr, do you feel that the Disclosure Project was a waste of time?


No i don't.

I think it is the biggest step to disclosure taken.


Then how can you knock someone for trying again on a bigger scale? DOn't puss out because the first try didn't get the god's attention, SCREAM LOUDER!


I'm just saying that if something that big can't produce dramatic results, which it hasn't, what can we as a community do? It is pointless to speculate about what we 'could' do because it wouldn't happen.

After reading your topic about disclosure, i am also thinking of the worldwide implications of it. If 'disclosure' occurred and it was revealed that UFOs were all just top secret craft, than you'd have one very angry President.

If, on the other hand, you discovered that ETs had been visiting Earth and using us like cattle, then the Earth would basically descend into anarchy. The people would no longer trust their governments, let alone go to them for protection.


You should have thought about the worldwide implications before you agreed that the DP was a good thing. Now you are also trying to say that it is a good thing that it failed? Grow some!

It's time that the government stops deciding what we the people want/need, it's time for another REVOLUTION!



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Miah

Originally posted by fooffstarr

Originally posted by Miah
fooffstarr, do you feel that the Disclosure Project was a waste of time?


No i don't.

I think it is the biggest step to disclosure taken.


Then how can you knock someone for trying again on a bigger scale? DOn't puss out because the first try didn't get the god's attention, SCREAM LOUDER!


I'm just saying that if something that big can't produce dramatic results, which it hasn't, what can we as a community do? It is pointless to speculate about what we 'could' do because it wouldn't happen.

After reading your topic about disclosure, i am also thinking of the worldwide implications of it. If 'disclosure' occurred and it was revealed that UFOs were all just top secret craft, than you'd have one very angry President.

If, on the other hand, you discovered that ETs had been visiting Earth and using us like cattle, then the Earth would basically descend into anarchy. The people would no longer trust their governments, let alone go to them for protection.


You should have thought about the worldwide implications before you agreed that the DP was a good thing. Now you are also trying to say that it is a good thing that it failed? Grow some!

It's time that the government stops deciding what we the people want/need, it's time for another REVOLUTION!


You don't have to insult me. What you just stated was OPINION, not fact. Same as what i posted earlier.

Why are you trying to bait me with questions and then attack my answers?

I am a believer in the UFO phenomenon, but i'm not sure the world is ready for 'disclosure', if there is anything to be disclosed at all.

To me, you have lost what i'm trying to save. Think about what we are discussing. UNIDENTIFIED craft over our skies. Don't you even find that exciting? Remember back to when you first got into researching UFOs and think of how amazed you were at some of the video and photo evidence that has surfaced. Don't lose the magic of studying what we KNOW.

Now, i didn't post any anti-disclosure attacks in your topic, so please lend me the same courtesy and apologize for the 'grow some' comment.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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[You don't have to insult me. What you just stated was OPINION, not fact. Same as what i posted earlier.

Why are you trying to bait me with questions and then attack my answers?

I am a believer in the UFO phenomenon, but i'm not sure the world is ready for 'disclosure', if there is anything to be disclosed at all.

To me, you have lost what i'm trying to save. Think about what we are discussing. UNIDENTIFIED craft over our skies. Don't you even find that exciting? Remember back to when you first got into researching UFOs and think of how amazed you were at some of the video and photo evidence that has surfaced. Don't lose the magic of studying what we KNOW.

Now, i didn't post any anti-disclosure attacks in your topic, so please lend me the same courtesy and apologize for the 'grow some' comment.



I'm sorry if you are thin-skinned, don't take it personally. But telling people to be scared of the truth is an un-american and un-human response to this global cover-up.

I have seen how the world governments handle our interests, which is exactly why I don't trust them with the single biggest secret of them all.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Miah]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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If aliens are smart enough to figure out interplanetary travel, then it shouldn't be too much of a stretch that they would know how to get their prescence known to an entire population of a planet if they wished.

If there was some kind of Prime Directive prohibiting contact, then there sure are a whole bunch of inept aliens that don't know how to stay hidden. Either that, or there sure are a bunch of alien scofflaws. I am not so sure that I'd want to have contact with them.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Miah




It's time that the government stops deciding what we the people want/need, it's time for another REVOLUTION!


Well said, well thought. They have made you IN-dependent neath (Be-neath) your own nose. They told you that you have IN-dependence, and so you are dependent on them. They are liars and manipulators, and We only see lies through eyes of truth.

Do Not ever commit to illusion again, yet acknowledge its presence. You were born free and you die free, what you are is free and what you are is energy, now you are Eternal with No death and No birth, yet you are made to pay for survival, which causes suffering, so you are made to pay for suffering as a result of those who think their happiness is in "monetary" illusion.

Technology is Being kept from you because they do Not think that you are smart enough, they have purposely caused the populus to Be raised in ill-literacy, and they can-Not find a control mechanism to make people pay for what is free.. and they n-ever (Not ever) will. It is up to Us to free Ourselves.

Show them what they really are through intellect, love, and peace. They are Everything you are, and We are Us

[edit on 16-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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I know this is a redundant statement that the skeptics don't like to here but we really are not ready for aliens to make there presence known. An alien race most likely is 25,000 years ahead of us probably is advanced past the point where they are malevolent. We take a glimpse at our own societies growth for an example. If we keep stockpiling nuclear arms and starting pointless wars with idiot leaders we are bound to completely wipe out the human race. No Ifs, ands, or buts. If you can't see the stage being set right now your are clearly blind. Our wisdom has to catch up with our technological advances if we want to survive as a civilization. If you study in scientific community you know that unbelievable scientific advances will be happening very rapidly that will have great impact of humanity. If a civilization can pass the stage where they gain more wisdom than technology and do not destroy themselves with energies that can wipe themselves out than they are obviously benevolent and peaceful. We can be seen as a threat to the extraterrestrials as we are trying to weaponize space. Also our societies are not ready for such a shock to the system. Our society is based on people with a "screw the next man attitude" that is based on monetary funds. Extraterrestrials arrival would create a serious imbalance with the current society. First of all ETs would give us free energy which the government is not using for fairly obvious reasons. They would create very major changes that would be a threat to other civilizations as we still kill and oppress our own people.



posted on Jan, 16 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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If there are Aliens who hold the technology needed to travel from galaxy to galaxy, I don't know why they would bother with a barbaric people like humans. We can't stop from killing each other. Until we learn that we are all one, we won't be deserving of any higher learning from Aliens.



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