Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Guru On Creation

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:32 PM
link   
This Amazes me, I want to know what you all think.
This is how the Universe was created According to our First Guru, Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
Big Bang?
Well Read and tell me what you all think.

www.info-sikh.com...


For countless ages there was utter darkness;
No earth, no sky, only God's will.
No day, no night, neither the Moon nor the Sun.
He sat in trance in the void.
There was no eating, no speaking.
There was no water, no air,
No creation, no destruction,
No coming, no going,
There were no planets, no underworld,
None of the seven seas
With rivers flowing into them.
There were no planes: higher, middle or lower,
Neither hell nor heaven, nor any hour of death,
No suffering, no bliss,
No birth, no death,
No entry, no exit.
There was no Brahma, no Vishnu, no Shiva.
With His order, the world was created.
It is maintained without any support.
He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
He created also the love of Maya.
Only a few are blessed with His Word.
He watches and rules over all.
He brought about the planets, the hemisphere
And the underworld.
And became Himself manifest.
It is the True Guru alone who imparts this
Understanding.
Says Nanak those who are truthful live in
Eternal bliss.
They are blessed with recitation of God's Name.
MARU (1035)

Deep




posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:43 PM
link   
Deep, yeah if you brain is in your ass.....That is the most shallow thinking I'v ever heard.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:45 PM
link   
Shallow?
This is According to my first Guru.
I asked for Opinions and what people thought.
Your just an idiot.
Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:48 PM
link   
This Pisses me off.
You can go off on how Christ made the world, how he was the Son of God.
But the Minute I start a Thread on a bias given by my Gurus, Im called Shallow.
What a load of #.
Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Shallow?
This is According to my first Guru.
I asked for Opinions and what people thought.
Your just an idiot.
Deep


Well you "Asked for opinions", and you got mine deal with it.

Everyone here NEEDS proof of God, if they don't get it then he don't exist. YOU are VERY shallow minded if you can't understand a greater purpose. If math does not equal up, if scientist can't prove/disprove.

I'm a Idiot..........Yeah ok.

I will accept that.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:55 PM
link   
Shallow minded?
See, have I stated any MY OPINION ON THIS.
No, I simply pasted what was said, and was curious if it coincided with others beliefs.
If you had nothing better to say, than dont say anything at all.
Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 07:58 PM
link   
Well, to me this person seems to be anti-Hindu for some reason which is why he insists "God"(his version) came before "Brahma". The faulty logic in doing so is that "Brahma" to those of Hindu faith IS THE SAME as this guys "God". Same as in EXACTLY the SAME entity or being or creator or whatever. Hindu's call it Brahma this guy calls it God, but that's just a choice of language and names or labels. The more established and detailed version usually speaks of the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva the same way the more detailed version of Judeo-Christian's speak of the Trinity of Father, Son & Holy Spirit. The names may change but the idea is all the same.

IMO this GURU isn't much of a GURU at all and for whatever reason intends on pointing out how RIGHT he is and how WRONG everyone else is. It's unfortunate that he's obviously never taken the time to realize that HIS "God" IS "Brahma" in Hindu. Similar to how JOHN in english is JUAN in mexican. Spelled different, but the same thing and same meaning!

Any so called GURU who lacks enough insight to see these connections is certainly NO GURU. Such a Wise GURU should certainly have learned by now that anyone who sais they can explain or define "That which is beyond explanation, comprehention, classification, etc" is obviously FULL OF MERDE! (Merde is french for SH!T btw....Another example of how the same thing can be spelled different ways, but mean the same thing!)



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:00 PM
link   
And who wrote this book, or whatever it is. Guru, I know as something else.

I admit at first I thought you where going off a web site etc.... Just to ridicule God So I appoligize. I am not one to put down others religion and I am VERY sorry for doing so.

I'm very interested in hearing others people's thought on God.

Please forgive me.

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by glan]



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:04 PM
link   
Brahma is the World Soul.
Not God.
And MOJO, maybe before you start ranting about "This Guy being dumb" You should do some research on his history, And the History of Sikhism.

www.info-sikh.com...
www.sikh-history.com...

"NOR ARE WE HINDU, NOR ARE WE MUSLIM"
This was a great qoute by Guru Nanak.

Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:06 PM
link   
Its okay.
I should not have called you an Idiot,
I have a habit of calling everyone an Idiot.

The Links above describe our First Guru, and the rest of our 10 gurus.
The founders of the Sikh Religion.

Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Brahma is the World Soul.
Not God.
And MOJO, maybe before you start ranting about "This Guy being dumb" You should do some research on his history, And the History of Sikhism.

www.info-sikh.com...
www.sikh-history.com...

"NOR ARE WE HINDU, NOR ARE WE MUSLIM"
This was a great qoute by Guru Nanak.

Deep


AS I SAID I APPOLIGIZE.

Does this God of yours beleive in FORGIVNESS?

I said I Misunderstood, and told you where I stand.....Accept it or ridicule me. That's your call.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:09 PM
link   
That was to Mojo...Not you.
Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:10 PM
link   
ZeroDeep.....Sorry......I mean no disrespect, but I just don't get what this guy is saying.

When he speaks of "God's Will", that is still considered Brahma is it not???? Or Brahma's Will Perhaps but still the same thing.

It's like saying or asking What was God before He made Himself.

You see what I'm saying.....If this guy is Hindu himself that makes what he's saying even more strange.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:21 PM
link   



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
This Amazes me, I want to know what you all think.
This is how the Universe was created According to our First Guru, Guru Nanak Dev Ji.
Big Bang?
Well Read and tell me what you all think.

www.info-sikh.com...


For countless ages there was utter darkness;
No earth, no sky, only God's will.
No day, no night, neither the Moon nor the Sun.
He sat in trance in the void.
There was no eating, no speaking.
There was no water, no air,
No creation, no destruction,
No coming, no going,
There were no planets, no underworld,
None of the seven seas
With rivers flowing into them.
There were no planes: higher, middle or lower,
Neither hell nor heaven, nor any hour of death,
No suffering, no bliss,
No birth, no death,
No entry, no exit.
There was no Brahma, no Vishnu, no Shiva.
With His order, the world was created.
It is maintained without any support.
He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
He created also the love of Maya.
Only a few are blessed with His Word.
He watches and rules over all.
He brought about the planets, the hemisphere
And the underworld.
And became Himself manifest.
It is the True Guru alone who imparts this
Understanding.
Says Nanak those who are truthful live in
Eternal bliss.
They are blessed with recitation of God's Name.
MARU (1035)

Deep

Was this Guru the original teacher, like Buddha or Jesus, of the Hindu faith?

This account of the creation of everything, strikes me as being very similar to the Christian account, just with fewer words.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva remind me very much of the Christian faith in the Father(Brahma?), Son (Vishnu?), and Holy Spirit (Shiva?) trinity.

I think that if a person is a prophet of the Truth, then it doesn't matter what title that Truth is given, be it Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, etc. Truth is truth and cannot be anything but that.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:26 PM
link   
This is a Link to some Info on our Gurus, I Think its better than me saying anything.
Every Picture has an insert describing the Gurus, and thier teachings.

www.info-sikh.com...

www.info-sikh.com...
Guru Ji once said " We commit sin when we do any act that impedes our progress towards the realm of Truth. The progress towards the realm of Truth implies love for our Lord and his creation. When we trespass the law of Love by our thoughts and actions, we cannot escape the pain and punishment which are its inevitable consequences. For example, if we, to quench the thoughts of our desires, trample on the rights of others, we commit the sin of violating the law of Love. The divinity of the soul is infinite and beyond the comprehension of human understanding. On the plane of action we know that hope and desire rule the mind, and action prompted by these creates bondage. The world is born of good and bad deeds. He who fails to take shelter in God is under their domain and is perishable."

Guru Ji on his travels stopped off at Mithankote. Mian Mitha a well known holy man heard that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had come so he went to meet with him. Mian Mitha sat by guru Ji and asked " Tell me whom does god like?"

"in his court , rich and poor, high and low, king and cobbler, all are alike. He who is true to the core and humble and loving of heart, gains the favour of God. The great men of this world are like elephants who trumpet in the pride of their own strength and throw dust over their own heads. They lie in dust when death overtakes them. Good men are like birds fluttering in the air, full of joy, content with the little that god provides."

Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:26 PM
link   
Zero.....Maybe I'm just unclear on the Names and the way they are used...

There is Brahman, and then there is Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva which ARE Brahman. Kinda like Father, Son and Holy Ghost ARE GOD. Yet God is just ONE God at the same time. Brahma is the created version of Brahman then correct?? Like Jesus is God, yet also Created by God and God's Son, but at the same time Just God.

Is that the mistake I'm making here??? I don't mean to thrash what this guy says or what you believe. Especially since I agree with the Original Hindu theology myself. By reading your first post it sounded like this GURU was discrediting Hindu Theology rather than supporting it. Perhaps he just has a slightly different way of wording it.



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:27 PM
link   
No he was the Guru of the Sikh relgion.
I think iv said that like 80 times.lol
If you read up thiers about a billion links I put up.
Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:34 PM
link   
Guru Nanak was against the opression of the Poor,
Corruption, and the caste system that was every so present in India.

www.sikhs.org...

www.sikhs.org...

These are the Philisophys given by our First Guru.
"Realization of Truth is higher than all else.
Higher still is Truthful Living." (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag)

There is only one God, he is the Creator, Sustainer and Destroyer.

"You are the Creator, O Lord, the Unknowable. You created the Universe of diverse kinds, colours and qualities. You know your own Creation. All this is your Play." (Guru Nanak, Var Majh)

"The Formless Supreme Being abides in the Realm of Eternity. Over His creation He casts His glance of grace. In that Realm are contained all the continents and the universes, Exceeding in number all count. Of creation worlds upon worlds abide therein; All obedient to His will; He watches over them in bliss, And has each constantly in mind." (Guru Nanak, Japji)

God cannot take human form.

"He neither has father, nor mother, nor sons nor brothers." (Guru Nanak, Maru)

"Burnt be the mouth that asserts, the Lord takes birth. He is neither born nor dies; neither enters birth nor departs. All pervasive is Nanaks Lord." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bhairon)

The goal of human life is to break the cycle of birth's and deaths and merge with God. This can be accomplished by following the teachings of the Guru, meditation on the Holy Name and performance of acts of service and charity.

Without devotion to the Name Divine is birth in the world gone waste. Such consume poison, poisonous their utterance; Without devotion to the Name, without gain they die, and after death in transmigration wander." (Guru Nanak, Raga Bhairon)

"True life is life in God, contemplation on the Name and the society of the saints" (Guru Arjan Dev, Dhanasari)

"I shall merge in the Lord like the water in the sea and the wave in the stream. The soul will merge in God and like air I shall look upon all alike. Then why shall I come again? The coming and going is under the Will of the Lord and Realising This Will, I shall merge in the Lord" (Bhagat Kabir, Maru)

"The disciple of the True Guru (God) dwells upon the Lord through the teaching of the Guru and all his sins are washed away" (Guru Ram Das, Var Gauri)

"Our service in the world gets us a seat in the Court of the Lord" (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag)

"One known as disciple of the holy Perceptor must, rising at dawn, on the Name Divine meditate" (Guru Ram Das, Raga Gauri)

The five cardinal vices are; Kam (lust), Krodh (anger), Lobh (greed), Moh (worldly attachment) and Ahankar (pride). If one can overcome these, they will achieve salvation.

"Five thieves who live within this body are lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego. They rob us of ambrosia, but the egocentrics do not understand it and no one listens to their cries" (Guru Amar Das, Sorath)

"I am in the Refuge of the Lord; Bless me, O Lord with your Grace, so that the lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego may be destroyed" (Guru Arjan Dev, Gauri Sukhmani)

Narm Marg; emphasizes daily devotion to the remembrance of God.

"Meditation of the Lord is the highest of the deeds, through which myriads obtain release, through which the thirst (of desires) is quenched, through which one becomes all knowing, through which the fear of death goes away, through which all the desires are fulfilled, through which the dirt of the mind is cleansed and the Nectar of the Name of God is absorbed in the mind" (Guru Nanak, Gauri Sukhmani)

Rejection of all forms of blind rituals such as fasting, religious vegetarianism, pilgrimages, superstions, yoga, as well as any form of idol worship.

"Let good conduct be thy fasting." (Guru Nanak, Var Majh)

"You keep the fast to please Allah, but slay life for your relish..But you do not reflect on the Lord, Who is within you" (Bhagat Kabir, Asa)

"Only fools argue whether to eat meat or not. They don't understand truth nor do they meditate on it. Who can define what is meat and what is plant? Who knows where the sin lies, being a vegetarian or a non vegetarian?" (Guru Nanak, Var Malar)

"The world is in agony because of the filth of ego, the word is filthy because of duality; The filth of ego cannot be washed away, even if one bathes at one hundred holy places." (Guru Amar Das, Sri Raga)

"They go to holy places for a bath, Their minds are impure and bodies are like thieves; If by bath their dirt drops down, they got on themselves twice as much dirt and ego." (Guru Nanak, Var Suhi)

"Whosover controls the mind, he is a pilgrim" (Guru Arjan Dev, Maru Solhe)

"You calculate the auspicious moments, but do not realise, That God is far above the effects of these auspicious moments." (Guru Nanak, Ramkali)

"Good omens and ill omens stick to him Who does not remember the Lord." (Guru Arjan Dev, Asa)

"The way to true yoga is found by dwelling in God and remaining detached in the midst of worldly attachments." (Guru Nanak, Suhi))

"Pandits are busy studying Puranas, Yogis are busy in yogic meditations; Sannyasis are intoxicated with ego, Tapsis are intoxicated with secrets of Tapas; All are intoxicated, none is awake, With them are thieves robbing them." (Bhagat Kabir, Basant)

"Five are the Muslim prayers; five their appointed hours, Five their names. These be the true prayers: The first is Truth, the second is lawful earning and the third is to beg the Graces of God for all, The fourth is the right intention in the mind and the fifth is the praise of the Lord." (Guru Nanak, Var Majh)

"He reads the holy books with commentaries, He does not remember God, his way of living is not flowless. He instructs and makes other people firm, But does not practise, whatever he says. Understand the substance of the Vedas, O Pandit!" (Guru Arjan Dev, Ramkali)

"The stone he calls his god, in the end, drowns him with itself... Know that a boat of stone carries one not across" (Guru Arjan Dev, Suhi)

"The stone neither speaks nor gives anything. Therefore its service is fruitless and its worship is of no avail." (Bhagat Kabir, Bhairo)

Normal Family life (Grasth) is encouraged, celibacy or renunciation of the world is not necessary to achieve salvation. The devotee must live in the world yet keep his mind pure. He must be a soldier, a scholar, a saint.

"Beauteous lady! hast not heard with thy ears, To the husband's home must thou come, nor for ever canst thou in the parental home abide" (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag)

"I that in the parents home on the Lord meditated, In the husband's home bliss have found. Blessed is the entire life of such." (Guru Ram Das, Sri Rag)

"Those known as celibates knowing not the right device, discard house and home." (Guru Nanak, Asa)

"Forsaking the household, one's mind took him to the forest, but it could not get peace even for a moment; but when it sought the refuge of the Saint of the Lord, its wanderings ceased and it returned to its own home. One abandoned his relatives and became a Sannyasi, but the craving of the mind did not cease. One's desires are not finished without the Word of the Guru, which alone can bring peace. When hatred for the world wells up in ones mind, he becomes a naked recluse, but the mind wanders ceaselessly and these wanderings do not end his desires, but when he meets the saints, he reaches the House of Mercy. Siddhas learn numerous Yogic poses; but their mind only after miraculous powers yearns. Thereby comes not to them fulfilment, content and peace of mind." (Guru Ram Das, Bilaval)

The Sikh Holy Book (Guru Granth Sahib) is the perpetual Guru, there is no place in Sikhism for a living Guru today.

"The bani is the preceptor and the preceptor is the bani, All the nectars are present in the bani: If the faithful follows the bani of the preceptor, The preceptor himself helps him in the realisation of his ideal." (Guru Ram Das, Nat)

Sikhism rejects all distinctions of caste, creed, race or sex.

"All are created from the seed of God. There is the same clay in the whole world, the potter (God) makes many kinds of pots." (Guru Amar Das, Bhairo)

"Recognise the light (of God) and do not ask for the caste, There is no caste in the next world." (Guru Nanak, Asa)

The Guru's stressed the full equality of women, rejecting female infanticide, sati (wife burning), permitting widow remarriage and rejects purdah (women wearing veils).

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak, Var Asa)

"They cannot be called satis, who burn themselves with their dead husbands. They can only be called satis, if they bear the shock of separation. They may also be known as satis, who live with character and contentment and always show veneration to their husbands by remembering them." (Guru Amar Das, Var Suhi)


Honest labour and work (Kirat Karna) are the approved way of living ones life. It is considered honourable to earn ones daily bread through honest work and not by begging or dishonest means.

"He who eats what he earns through his earnest labour and from his hand gives something in charity; he alone, O Nanak, knows the true way of life" (Guru Nanak Dev, Rag Sarang, pg. 1245)


Vand Chhakna, sharing with others is also a social responsibility. The individual is expected to help others in need through charity.


Seva, community service is also an intergral part of Sikhism. The free community kitchen (langar) found at every gurdwara and open to people of all religions is one expression of this community service.

Deep



posted on Dec, 13 2003 @ 08:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
No he was the Guru of the Sikh relgion.
I think iv said that like 80 times.lol
If you read up thiers about a billion links I put up.
Deep


I'm sorry, I was writing my comment while the other statements were made and didn't see them until after I had posted my question. Thus, I was unaware that you were Sikh and not Hindu.

From what I understand of this story, in which the Guru explained the creation of existence, it seems that what he is saying is that all of the religious names for God that people have all over the world, came after God and were created by God. God is a constant, beyond anything we can define or give a title to. It doesn't matter what God we choose to believe in, be it Brahman, Buddha, Yaweh, etc. It only matters that we believe and love each other. Am I getting the right idea?





new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join