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MAJIC documents

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posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 02:07 PM
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Hello, I've got a shot one this time;

Been skimming through some MJ12 documents and now I wonder; is there any of them that holds 100% authencity? Is there conclusive evidence that the Majestic 12 ever existed or is it all an urban legend? Has anyone from the alleged MJ-12 ever stepped forward and said: "Yeah, I was there"?
Man, I wish at least some of it will be true...


Death to ones who fake documents for personal fame and profit!




posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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In December 1984, television producer Jaime Shandera allegedly received an anonymous package containg an undeveloped roll of 35mm film. Pictures on the film showed two documents, one dated 24 September 1947 and another dated 18 November 1952. They were purportedly briefing documents regarding recovery of a crashed flying saucer near Roswell, New Mexico in July 1947. The documents were stamed SECRET/MAJIC/EYES ONLY and had references ot a group called MJ-12.

Shandera, along with William Moore and Stanton Friedman, made the documents public in May 1987 because British UFOlogist Timothy Good had announced that he, too, had copies and was about to publish them. To some researchers these documents appeared to be the proverbial "smoking gun", but to others they were highly suspect. It is perhaps most unfortunate that there were no original documnets, only photos purported to be of such documents. The originals were not available for examination.

One document, known as the "Cutler memo" was apparently classified TOP SECRET but lacked a TS register number. It was stamped "Top Secret - Restricted Information," a classification not used by the National Security Coucil (NSC) until the Nixon administration, decades after if was supposedly written. The paper appeared to lack a government watermark. The memo referred to a NSC meeting on 16 July 1954, but NSC records show no meeting on that date, nor did president Eisenhower's appointment books indicate any special meetings on that date.

The MJ-12 documents contained numerous other inconsistencies, factual errors and stylistic problems, as well as anachronistic terminology. These tended to indicate the documents might be a hoax. The final blow apparently came in 1990 when Phil Klass found the "Truman memo" of 1947 was a forgery. It bore a signature photocopied from a genuine document. A document examiner also stated the body of the memo was typed on a Smith-Corona typerwriter model that was not produced until 1963.

Eventually, even Stanton Friedman condemned many of the supposed MJ-12 documents as fraudulent. He found that some documents were "emulations of real documents" that were available to the public and that some things had been retyped, combined with other material, and then photocopied. He also noted numerous factual errors.

In 1994, another alleged MJ-12 document surfaced in the form of an undeveloped roll of 35mm film. The "Special Operations Manual (SOM1-01)" was a how-to instruction book for recovering crashed UFOs. It was dated 1954. Again, what a tragedy there was no original document to examine. That leaves us with content and style.

Some analysts found as many as 50 inconsistencies and errors. Again there were problems with classification markings. There was a War Department seal on the cover where a Department of Defense seal should have been for the alleged date of publication. Most egregiously, there were references to Area 51 (which did not exist in 1954;the base was built in 1955 and named Area 51 no earlier than 1958) and S-4 (a fictional creation of Bob Lazar, circa 1990s).

This sort of hoax does a great disservice to UFOlogy.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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Nooooooooooooooooo!!!


But I was so spellbound by the MJ-12...now I believe in nothing. Nothing ya hear?! NOTHING! This whole world is a fraud! Mwaahahaha!!!



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 03:31 PM
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i have some majic-12 documents saved on my pc (probaly shouldnt have said that :lol
i guess they are fake but i always thought majic-12 was real maybe they just covered there existance too well.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:10 PM
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majesticdocuments.com is one of the best sources for these...

When looking elsewhere, you may go by the breakdown of MAJIC also Military Assessment Joint Intelligence Committee...as this was allegedly the group that grew out of the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU) (or something like that...off the cuff, so to speak).



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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Iirc the signature was actually found by Stanton Friedman himself , and was later found to be inidentical to other signatures. Edison himself patented a device to duplicate signatures , and there were many presidents who have used such devices , so this would not be such an amazing find anyway.

Read Stanton Friedmans book "Top Secret/Majic" . After seeing thousands of UFO pictures in my life , ranging from the interesting to the outright ridiculous. This book alone made me think there was a good chance that the original MJ12 papers may be real , and if they are real , then we have been visited by another civilisation without question.

After reading the book you will realise that there must have been one of the censors working within government dropping clues and hints for Stanton including the onion-skin paper cutler-twining memo. Unfortunately the release of the book would surely have jeopardized this persons job , if not his life.



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Eventually, even Stanton Friedman condemned many of the supposed MJ-12 documents as fraudulent. He found that some documents were "emulations of real documents" that were available to the public and that some things had been retyped, combined with other material, and then photocopied. He also noted numerous factual errors.

...

This sort of hoax does a great disservice to UFOlogy.


I agree that if the MJ-12 documents are a hoax that it has done more damage to the subject than probably can be reasonably calculated.

However, having read Friedman's book, I am left with the impression that he believed, after painstaking analysis, that they were real. Has he really backpedaled on this statement, and, if so, do you know where he made the statement or where it is posted? Just trying to keep my facts straight...

Thanks!



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 04:04 PM
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Stanton Friedman's opinions on the MJ-12 documents can be found here:

www.v-j-enterprises.com...


Additional good material can be found here:

www.roswellfiles.com...

www.roswellfiles.com...

www.roswellfiles.com...



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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From www.v-j-enterprises.com...:



The Majestic 12 documents problem is complex and extensive. On balance it appears that the EBD, TFM and CTM are almost certainly genuine, the SOM 1.01 memo is very likely genuine (see Dr. Robert Woods paper (Ref. 18)) and the Tim Cooper Documents are emulations and fictional.


While Friedman, like others, have research open to criticism, I haven't found anything to substantiate the claim that he doesn't believe that some of the documents are genuine. If someone does have something, I would love to hear it.



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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www.wikiupload.com...

God knows what this is.

But it has the word "Majic" in it and appears to be a rough flightplan of sorts, morse code included ! Probably nothing but hey


I found whilst searching google for PDF's - using ATS member Infinite's post.

(Original post found here
www.abovetopsecret.com...)



[edit on 18-1-2007 by timb3r]



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 12:37 AM
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several years ago i read in a UFO magazine that the 1947 documents shown in the 35 mm film provided by Shandera were all but declared a hoax by Stanton Friedman, as well as numerous experts - but Friedman did mention that he felt the MJ12 group and MAJIC may have been based in some fact and that the hoax could have been staged by the government as means of discrediting the field



posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 03:06 AM
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Having just read over Stanton Friedman's essay on his website about the MAJIC documents, it's seems very, very clear to me that he does in fact believe that some of those documents are authentic.

Read his conclusions below. At any rate, it makes sense that he does believe in the authenticity of some of those documents as I can't see how anyone like him would have invested so much time and money in researching those docs if he thought they were all fake.

www.v-j-enterprises.com...


OVERALL SUMMARY

The Majestic 12 documents problem is complex and extensive. On balance it appears that the EBD, TFM and CTM are almost certainly genuine, the SOM 1.01 memo is very likely genuine (see Dr. Robert Woods paper (Ref. 18)) and the Tim Cooper Documents are emulations and fictional. It is perhaps not surprising that a documentary movie "Do you Believe in Majic?" is being prepared by Paul Kimball of Redstar films who had dug into a great deal of UFO material in preparation for the documentary "Stanton T. Friedman IS Real!" (Ref. 19) first broadcast on the Canadian Space TV channel in June 2002. Critics have been interviewed. One strange criticsm was made by Karl Pflock when he claimed twice that because Menzel was famous for doodling small cartoon Martians that the statement in the EBD that Menzel was saying the aliens were from Mars was an inside joke. I am afraid the joke is on Karl. The EBD (p. 4) says exactly the opposite:

... considerable speculation has centered around what their point of origin might be and how they get here. Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists, most notably Dr. Menzel, consider it more likely that we are dealing with beings from another solar system entirely.

Stan Friedman



[edit on 20-1-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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From what I have read about the MJ-12 documents, and reading the documents themselves seems to point to the fact that they are a hoax. People could see the FBI's investigation into the documents as a cover up. I believe that these documents were created by someone, who is clever, who wanted to add something to the world of ufology and push it into the wrong direction. In Just Cause edited by Barry Greenwood makes a good arugment that the documents are fake. This information can be found in Number 13 (09/1987), Number 21 (09/1989), and Number 23 (03/1990). Use the link below to view the issues I have mentioned.

www.box.com...



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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Certain top secret documents are written in a way not conforming to any military or D.o.D. standards, this is done to make it easy to refute them as a hoax.. The fact that so many officials have publically refuted them are an indicator..
They may be disinformation, but no person could have possibly authored those documents without having a vast knowledge of inside people working in secret capacity with government, in my opinion... It wasn't just some schmo, that's for certain...



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by alienreality
Certain top secret documents are written in a way not conforming to any military or D.o.D. standards, this is done to make it easy to refute them as a hoax.. The fact that so many officials have publically refuted them are an indicator..
They may be disinformation, but no person could have possibly authored those documents without having a vast knowledge of inside people working in secret capacity with government, in my opinion... It wasn't just some schmo, that's for certain...


For similar reasons I always thought there was some truth there, but something has always smelled very funny about it.

There are obvious lies... so why would they do this?

Two different reasons... preparatory theatrics or an obvious probe into something they have lost control of.

Since they cannot seem to muster straightforward integrity and fortitude... you won't catch me trusting any of the people they have put forth on that campaign... if that is indeed what it is.

Either way... nobody really has an excuse to be that full of crap, regardless of which way their agenda goes.

Everything has to be an act with them... heavily scripted. The minute they get real is the point I might consider reconsidering, but I don't think they even know how to approach "getting real"

It appears to be the absolute last they they know how to do. They may know how to do a lot of things but that isn't one of them.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Obviously there are some MJ12 documents that are fake. However, there's enough evidence to say that some are most likely authentic, or else were created by someone who had some inside knowledge. Either way, one cannot easily discard them.

As far as the debunking of the documents goes, just as we should be skeptical of the documents themselves, we should also be skeptical of the claims to having found "flaws" in the documents. A lot of the alleged errors in the documents are not errors at all.

edit on 7/4/2013 by Damsel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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The whole "Aviary" UFO mythos is one of three things....

1) An outright, but extremely elaborate hoax that involves not only the known members of the group, but also others such as Lazar, etc. (or these others took the concept and ran with it. Lazar was right around the same time though, so a much more odd coincidence. Either a lot of truth there, or collusion).

2) Complete truth.

or

3) Truth sprinkled with enough information to be deniable

So, three possibilities. I think we can rule out number 2, just from some of the things in some documents. Likewise, we can't classify ALL of the documents together. They are different, and have different levels of confidence, origin, and information.

If it is option 1 (complete hoax), then it represents an unprecedented amount of research and corroboration (and all before the Internet's wide usage) for a hoax. In addition, they mention some things in the docs (like the IPU) that weren't even KNOWN about until later, so if a hoax, it was by people who had inside information. (The IPU's existence was confirmed by a FOIA request, though documents were stated to be with AFOSI, Air Force Office of Special Investigations...who then said they didn't have it).

That leads me to option 3. But just how much is truth, and how much is disinfo? It certainly does a good job of establishing a timeline of the formation of a group to study and silence the UFO issue. It's the right people, right time, and the things that happened soon after (National Security Act, etc.) really reinforce the idea. So, I think some of it is correct, just no telling how much.


edit on 5-7-2013 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Raud
Death to ones who fake documents for personal fame and profit!


In contrast to that, death to those who expose the validity of those documents should they prove to be official.




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