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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
President George W. bush chooses to ignore the will of the US public
Iraqis
and the world in general,
the only thing left to do now is start the draft.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by EastCoastKid
President George W. bush chooses to ignore the will of the US public
Yes he does. (Supposedly) He has access to classified information that we don't have and so he can make more informed decisions than we can.
That's a fallacy. I wrote an op/ed before the invasion stating that it would be an unmitigated disaster to invade and occupy Iraq; and that there were no WMD.
I was right. He and his apparatus were wrong. He chose to ignore vital information that was available to others, including myself. Anyone who would have done the proper research of unclassified material would've discovered how wrong BushCo. was.
ECK: Iraqis
Flyers Fan: Insurants yes, Iraqis no.
At least 80% of Iraqis surveyed approve of attacks on US forces; at least 60% surveyed want our forces out.
ECK: and the world in general,
Flyers Fan: So what? He isn't President of the United States to do the bidding of the world. He is POTUS to do what is best for America. period. What anyone else wants is of no concern. Their 'will' is irrelevant.
No, it is not irrelevant. The US is not an island unto itself. We have involved ourselves so extensively out there into that larger world, that we do have to concern ourselves with what others think. Without co-operation from allies and even not allies, we can't really do a whole lot.
ECK: the only thing left to do now is start the draft.
Flyers Fan: It's not the only thing left, but it is the best thing IMHO. A nice 2 year mandatory service. Oh that would be nice. Unfortunately, studies have shown that a volunteer Army is better motivated than a conscript army and therefore a draft will be the last thing to happen. And then there would be the whining from those who think their demographic group has been over drafted .. Oh yes .. it would be interesting.
Yes, a 2 yr period of mandatory service wouldn't hurt anyone.
As of right now, with stop-loss usage and sending guard and reserve forces into combat as we have, we no longer have that all-volunteer military. We have soldiers and Marines doing up to 3 and 4 tours. That is unconscionable. No one should ever be forced to do more than one tour of duty in combat (12 months). That didn't even happen during the Vietnam War.
Right now our Marines and Army cannot keep up with recruiting enough troops; therefore they have dropped the enlistment standards to a horrific degree. This is definitely not the professional military I served with during the Gulf War. Back then they had relatively high standards for enlistment, which was excellent. As it should be.
If the draft was re-instated it would take the pressure off of those who have already served in Iraq and Afghanistan, allowing them to return, re-arm and retrain in peace.
Its time for all Americans to join this effort or put an end to it once and for all.
[edit on 1/13/07 by EastCoastKid]
Originally posted by Nygdan
What happens if there is a draft, and then because of the huge surplus of troops in iraq, there is a shutdown on the violence?????
Originally posted by rocknroll
What would happen if they found those same young troops rebelling and joining the masses back here at home?
Originally posted by Vekar
If you want a draft so bad I hope you are on the front lines too, I dont CARE how old you are, or how crippled you are. If you want a draft so bad then go to the front YOURSELF!
Originally posted by Nygdan
So, again, what happens if the draft results huge troop levels and a cracking up of the insurgency in Iraq? People might start saying 'well, since we've already got the troops over there, maybe they can just march right into iran'.
Originally posted by EastCoastKid
We can't recruit enuff troops.
And it doesn't matter how many troops we pour into Iraq, we cannot defeat their insurgency. Look at history. Or don't.
Anyone who has studied their history and who has SERVED knows this is a losing proposition.
Originally posted by EastCoastKid
We can't recruit enuff troops.
NYGDAN:But you are talking about a draft.
NYGDAN: Insurgencies are often defeated. Insurgencies aren't invincible.
ECK: Anyone who has studied their history and who has SERVED knows this is a losing proposition.
NYGDAN: I think that soldiers who've served successfully against insurgencies would disagree.
What the united states is doing wrong is treating an insurgency like a regular army. Thats why the US has trouble suppressing insurgencies, like in Vietnam and now in Iraq.
But the suggestion that insurgencies are unstoppable is simply wrong. They require different tactics, you can't bomb an insurgency into oblivion, for example.
I don't think that we're going to have a draft, because it seems like only Rangell is interested in having it. And I don't think that even if we did have more troops, that anything'd be different in Iraq, because the peopel in charge now aren't interested in winning, beyond its domestic political implications.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Well, they'd quite properly shoot them.
Originally posted by rocknroll
I'm totally for the draft. And I'm also too old to be in it...
Originally posted by EastCoastKid
F*** the Neocons and their pollyanna dreams. They are the worst thing that ever happended to America.
Originally posted by Vekar
-Draft= more numbers
-More numbers= more wars
-Elites are GOOD at dodging drafts, look at history
-Elites when never see the front line, they stay in the USA, example: Bush Jr. even then he was too scared
-Draft=Chance to remove unwanted from society
-More wars=More deaths
-Iraq=Lost
-Lost=GET OUT
-More numbers in one spot=higher body count for you
-More numbers in Iraq=Higher civilian death count
-The higher a number you have, the harder your enemy will fight
-Draft=extremely high income for corporations
-More wars=extremely high income for corporations