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F-22 Will Debut At Red Flag

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posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Much as I dislike the F-22, it's got some serious power in the skies. Here's for all the Raptor lovers.


This is the first of three Red Flags this year, and the F-22 Raptor is participating for the first time.


Also of interest is the return of the Apache to the exercise.


Captain Govin also said the AH-64 Apache Army helicopter is returning after several years of absence in Red Flag.

"It's been some time since we've had the Apache here, and the Utah National Guard will be flying them for the exercises," he said.


Oh, and one more relevant to the recent F-117 controversy.


The strike aircraft will include the B-2 Spirit, the B-1 Lancer, Royal Air Force GR-4 Tornadoes, F-15E Strike Eagle, the F-111 Aardvark and the F-117 Nighthawk," Captain Govin said.


I think this is going to be an interesting exercise with the Raptors in the mix. It's going to give friendly countries a first-hand look at what the aircraft is capable of, which is usually a good thing. I'm kind of disappointed to see that the F-22 is the most recent fighter there, I had hoped to see some Typhoons around or even Rafales, but my wish is not their command
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Red Flag Ramps Up, F-22 To Make Its Debut




posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 11:41 AM
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I'm interested to find out which Tornado sqn is taking part..
Is it the 43 sqn by any chance?



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
I'm interested to find out which Tornado sqn is taking part..
Is it the 43 sqn by any chance?


I heard the 25 and 31 st sqn are taking part in it. I just can't wait till the Typhoon takes part



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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Note, the 94th FS will be the one flying the Raptors, they are the second operational fighter squadron to fly F-22's. Also, given the published parameters in which the F-22 will be used it will only fly against US aggressor squadrons. It will escort AUS F-111'and British Tornados. Come on, you didn't think the USAF would give it all away, did you?



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Note, the 94th FS will be the one flying the Raptors, they are the second operational fighter squadron to fly F-22's. Also, given the published parameters in which the F-22 will be used it will only fly against US aggressor squadrons. It will escort AUS F-111'and British Tornados. Come on, you didn't think the USAF would give it all away, did you?


WP23,

Perhaps. It remains to be asked however whether this is useful ops training or if the Raptor would be better off not tied to the 'escort role' of subsonic, high signature, platforms. Most particularly when there is no news that the F-22 now has a useful SEAD mission role relative to protecting them against the _predominant_ S2A threat.

Indeed, as soon as you bomb up the Raptor it becomes flat out _dangerous_ to use it as an escort, simply because you are coming into the fight with all of 2 longrange shots and a commitment to staying in the fight against potentialy overwhelming numbers 'to save the settlers'.

Inspite of what you said about giving things away, I also frankly wonder if this doesn't reflect the USAF desire to niche-publicize the airframe in a way that has ZERO relevance to todays mission set because CAS is not the F-22 mission role, nor is guarding elements engaged in such a frontal mission.

i.e. This could backfire on them as a function of showing off, not the Raptor but rather their boys club mentality: in love with jousting for its own sake but not comprehending that a real budgetary climate requires real proof that the platform does something which _no other airframe can_.

Rather than 'cooperatively joint force' continuing a system of systems approach in which none of the key mission drags (EA, DEAD etc.) are removed because all the other strikers are still firmly 1980's driven by 3-5m2 signatures.

With regard to the Apaches, it's frankly laughable to assume that those aircraft are joint-op integrateable, simply because they work on such vastly different time and target value/threat schedules. You can deconflict them but you cannot employ them cooperatively to any degree.

The whirlywingers will not be at depth to exploit their unique targeting advantages (not that you could hear them without a bentpipe if they did) and the fixed wingers will not be able to protect them from trashfire threats when exposing themselves to frontal threats.

CONCLUSION:
Until and unless they employ the F-22 as a FDOW platform, highlighting the REDUCED number of types and depths of coordination _with support missions for it's mission_ (Predators, EA-6B, ROBE Tanking, E-8/EC-135 etc.) as a high value striker; nothing the USAF does to glad hand or bragging rights beg their way into having both the cake (F-22) and the eating-too (F-35) solutions of a hi-lo mixed force will be anything but a farce.

And they dare not commit to such an aggressive demonstration, with or without 'Joint Force' Allied witnesses, because if they do, the difference in sortie rates and commited asset effectiveness between a supercruise + SAR capable, 700-800nm, Small-Bomb slinging, WAR WINNER.

And all else.

Will put the worthless F-35's production effort in a sling.



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:34 PM
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No online sources on this yet but I'm just sharing something I read in the papers this morning..

With the recent revelations that the Typhoon will most probably participate in the next RAF-IAF exercises this year(2007), it is evident that the west is going to see its best take-on the MKI.
Though the west has had its sneak peaks at what the Su-30 is all about (Cope India 04, 05, 06, RAF exercise 06), the best of west has not seen the MKI.

It seems the AF attache at the US embassy in Delhi has stated that the IAF will participate in Red Flag 2007 in an 'observer capacity' and in 'full capacity' at Red Flag 2008. The Su-30 MKI is specifically mentioned as one of the participants in 2008.

So here goes!! It seems that the MKI/Typhoon/Raptor party is happening soon!




posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:56 PM
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Several Red Flags happen each year the one that features the Raptor (Colonial Flag) started Jan 16th and will conclude by the end of next week. Which one will India "observe"? Also, I'm not sure if the F-22 will partake in any Red Flag exercises next year, if I had to bet I's say not with any Flankers, if they are present at all. As for a possible Tiffy Vs. Flanker should be interesting but I hope we get to know the parameters as well as any results.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by WestPoint23]



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 01:09 AM
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Well since the article said that the IAF 'will' observe the Red Flag in 2007, then it must be a Red Flag that is yet to be held.
How many scheduled for this year?



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 06:54 AM
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If they are to be Tornado GR.4's then they cannot be from either 25 or 43 Sqn, they both fly the F.3. 31 Sqn fly the GR.4 though.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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This should be intresting to observe. The F-22 has both capibilities and tactics that have never been used before. The addition of the Raptor to Red Flag should change the way the fighting is conducted.

This will be the 1st A2A stealth fighter ever to fly in cambat exercises. Can't wait to hear how this comes out!

Tim



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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The F-2 red flag is almost over as wstpt indicated?



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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Yes it is almost over, and the results wont be anything you have not seen before at Northern Edge or Nellis. The F-22 was suppose to fly top cover for the Aus F-111's and British Tornados, against the aggressor squardons flying F-15 and F-16 fighters. We already know how the Raptor performs against those aircraft. What this exercise was me to strengthen more than anything else was interoperability and joint force (multinational) operations.



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