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Barbara Boxer Says Condi Rice Can't Know Price Of Sacrifice

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posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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elysiumfire

You have won my way above vote, thanks for bringing back the thread to the orginal meaning without the spiteful comments.


But as usual because is a democrat and Republican issue it has to be turned into a righty and lefty issue.

Even I am guilty off.

Shame on us.




posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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elysiumfire

You have also won my award for your post that sheds true light on the situation.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by elysiumfire
Boxer's point rests on the concept that decisions that Rice makes cannot be arbitrated by any kind of experience in which she has lost a beloved family member to a conflict that is seen wholly at odds with the conscience of the American people. On this issue, Boxer's point is both correct and right, and it can be said to include a number of other individuals within the current administration whom bandy the the word 'sacrifice' whilst they themselves cannot incorporate the experience of sacrificing 'anything' of their own, right up to and including Bush, or Blair.



Sen. Boxer very well could have included most of the Senators and Representatives in Congress, but she did not. She singled our Sect. Rice in a way as to belittle her. She could have made the same point in a general way by stating most people in government will not feel the loss, but Sen. Boxer had to take it to a personal level So much for the civilized start to this.

.....Let us honor his memory, not just in eulogy, but in dialogue and trust across the aisle.........And the American people told us they expected us to work together for fiscal responsibility, with the highest ethical standards and with civility and bipartisanship.
Text of Speech
As for the conflict being "wholly at odds with the conscience of the American people" you are translating you beliefs and polls, which by the way, are divided on this issue, and concluding all of America opposes the war and what we are trying to accomplish in Iraq.

Do you think it is vital that we succeed in Iraq or just that it is vital that we get our troops out of Iraq, regardless of the situation? The War on Terror, will depend on two major things; encouraging democratization of the Arab World and just solution to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:21 PM
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I agree. The ones who pushed so hard to make this war happen should be on the front lines fighting it. It would be over a lot sooner that way. Look at Alexander the Great. He led his army into battle. He was out front, in the thick of the fighting, possibly the last truly great general/warrior the West has known. His men would follow him anywhere, for he was one of them.

I'd like to stick Bush and Cheney and Kerry and Lieberman on the front lines in the WOT, and see what happens. Put them out there where the IEDs are going off and the RPGs are whizzing by, and people are being blown to pieces, and see what a great idea they think all this is then.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

The War on Terror, will depend on two major things; encouraging democratization of the Arab World and just solution to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict.


Actually this war on terror is base on lies war base on lies are not going to be won.

If the present administration wanted a real spreading of democracy they could have made an example starting with Saudi Arabia but nobody tell the Saudis what to do, because they are friends at least to Bush.

So actually the so call democratizations of the middle east is nothing that a bogus notion.

Capitalizing on the invasion of Iraq is what the main goal is all about, pushing a hasty government, redesigning the entire make over of a society, that is nothing than brewing failure.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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It was a cheap shot on the part of Ms Boxer. But, given her track record, not all that surprising. It was catty and unprofessional.
I'm sure Ms Boxer would have liked it if Ms Rice stooped to her level.

And, I could see how Ms Rice replied professionally, even though you could see the emotion in her face.

I am childless and can empathize with those who lose children. Being childless does not take away my ability to have feelings and compassion for those who lose their beloved.
War is a terrible thing and it must be horrible to lose a child, spouse or sibling to that war.

Would she have said the same thing to a sinlge, childless man, I wonder? Somehow, I doubt it.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Actually this war on terror is base on lies war base on lies are not going to be won.

If the present administration wanted a real spreading of democracy they could have made an example starting with Saudi Arabia but nobody tell the Saudis what to do, because they are friends at least to Bush.


Off topic, but you do realize the War on terror started well before the present administration, it just didn't get our real attention till 9/11.
We have been encouring our allies in the region in regards to being more democratic as well.

Back on topic.

It was a non statesman or stateswomen way to word her statement.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:23 PM
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already another same related thread with a different title floating around.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Would she have said the same thing to a sinlge, childless man, I wonder? Somehow, I doubt it.


I would think the whole point of what she said is to think about the children...not just the fact that she doesn't have any but to anyone with or without kids. Basically the message should be read lets not be so hasty to go to war and maybe we shouldnt send more people over there.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:28 PM
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Bravo Barbara Boxer.

I agree with her angle.

If more people had a stake in this, fleshwise, the war would end more quickly.

As a matter of fact, I've decided my next op/ed for my paper will be on my belief that we should start the draft. Faulty reasoning? No. If the draft was reinstated, America would revolt en mass. If Bush is so damn stupidly gung ho, let him take the bold position of forcing enlistment.

Unless he does that, he's just blowing smoke up your skirt

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 13/1/2007 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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I think , I have changed my mind.
Maybe it is true that Rice cannot know the type of loss, known by someone who has a child or many children.

Perhaps it is for the best that a person who is tasked with making decisions like this, not be ruled by emotions. Logic is clouded by emotions.

Boxer has actually provided Rice with a backhanded compliment.
A stinging, yet truthful definition of Rice. Someone who has to make decisions that require non-emotional, and logical judgement.

Thanks Barbie!



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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The statement itself just goes to underscore the fact that politics and morality are autonomous spheres.

I have made the mistake over and over again of not only expecting our leaders to have conscience but to act out of it. It is a fanciful notion, just like the notion that support for this war is our patriotic duty.

Support for this war is not going to help create democracies in the ME or a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Support for this war is only going to create more death and destruction, and more tombstones for our young soldiers with catchy phrases on them like "Here lies a true Patriot who gave his/her life in support of Operation Enduring Freedom".

It makes me sick to think that the people we have leading this great nation have lost their moral compass to the extent they are willing to send our children off to die like this and then have the gall to sit around sniping at each other over who feels the pain of their loss more than the other.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I agree with Boxer Ms Rice is a spinter she doesn't know what a mother feels when she have a son in harms way.

She was been truthful and realistic been a mother herself.

Yes is many women that don't need to become biological mothers to understand what it feels to mother a chid, because is women that adopt children and raise chidren as their own, they dedicate their lives to this children and they love them just like it was one from their own womb.

But in Ms. Rice case she had a life dedicated to politics and corporate business.








This is a cheap shot to the lowest extent. When are people going to wake up? Granted, the Bush administration could have done a much better job in many areas but to not do something about the Middle East would be asking for more problems than we already have. When are people going to wake up and look a little bit farther ahead than the next 10 minutes of life in front of them? The Middle East is the wild west with Islamofacsist regmes running round everywhere. It would only be a matter of time before they all started enriching uranium (Iran?) and then there would be no telling what the hell would happen. Maybe it will take a nuclear bomb blowing up in your backyard to understand why we have troops in the Middle East.

EDIT: spelling

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Arkane]



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 12:43 AM
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That's why the first answer for the US to the problems in the ME needs to be border and transportation security, not global over-extension of our armed forces.

We have sacrificed a golden opportunity to put ourselves beyond the reach of our enemies by chasing them into their backyards without securing our own territory first.

From a secure base of operations, the impact of our global first strike capabilities would be maximized in the form of special forces teams tailored for each engagement, going in high speed, low drag, and packing a wallop. Get in, get the job done, get out. One less bad guy scenario to deal with. Granted the HUMINT element is sadly lacking, but we can rebuild that while we secure our borders and transportation infra- and extra-structure.

Instead we are over there bogged down in a crossfire between insurgency and civil war, building bases we may never be able to safely occupy, investing the lives of our children and the future of our nation in a region that neither accepts nor is willing to tolerate our presence.

Its madness.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

This current group of Democrats apparently do not care about bipartisan efforts to solve problems. They continue with their pre-November mudslinging tactics, unaware that the American public is sick and tired of it.



Now you guys want bipartisanship?

Bipartisanship is a really nice way of describing mercy. Mercy which the GOP hadn't bothered to show Barbara Boxer, or anyone else for the last 6 years. As for mudslinging, I think the American people can accept their fair share of mudslinging, if it means finally pulling the plug on this war. As evidenced in November, the American People are furious. They're furious with Condi. With Bush. With the damn White House dog. They're three steps away from storming the gates, and beheading everyone in D.C.

But, to stay on topic, I think the most revealing thing to me, is the alluded to subtext of Boxer's original comment. The reason why Conservatives are furiously up in arms over it.

The implied lesbianism

Oh, it there's, just sneaking in under the surface, hiding in the crevices of the statement. It's practically screaming to be noticed. Condi Rice isn't married. Doesn't date. Has no children.

Boxer made a comment -within the context of children during war- about Rice being childless, and suddenly there's an intense right wing noise machine, instantly pushing the controversy from a five to a ten.

I find the over reaction to be suspicious, as though they were pre-emptively striking out, fearful that the casual american voter would discover something they weren't supposed to know.

If she is, or she isn't, I don't really care. But, the tremendous over reaction to even this slightest hint or allegation is glaringly obvious.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
That's why the first answer for the US to the problems in the ME needs to be border and transportation security, not global over-extension of our armed forces.

We have sacrificed a golden opportunity to put ourselves beyond the reach of our enemies by chasing them into their backyards without securing our own territory first.

From a secure base of operations, the impact of our global first strike capabilities would be maximized in the form of special forces teams tailored for each engagement, going in high speed, low drag, and packing a wallop. Get in, get the job done, get out. One less bad guy scenario to deal with. Granted the HUMINT element is sadly lacking, but we can rebuild that while we secure our borders and transportation infra- and extra-structure.

Instead we are over there bogged down in a crossfire between insurgency and civil war, building bases we may never be able to safely occupy, investing the lives of our children and the future of our nation in a region that neither accepts nor is willing to tolerate our presence.

Its madness.


We can't even keep illegal immigrants out of the United States.. much less out of Iraq or Afghanistan. How do you suppose we are to lock down the borders without an organized police force and with a bunch of madmen running around trying to kill every American "infidel" they see by laying down roadside bombs everywhere and ambushing convoys?



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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Here is a collection of letters written by goldstar families about their loss

www.gsfso.org...

The truth is none of us can know what it is to lose a loved one to war until we have suffered through that loss; whether we have had children or not.

The thing is that the Bush Administration has taken every opportunity to have photo ops in front of the flag, Bush in his military suits, Bush speaking to the military, but they have sought to maintain the coffin ban, thus limiting the actual visual pics of the dead soldiers coming home.

This administration has sought to cut veteren's benefit's
www.commondreams.org...

and then there is the lack of armor for our military. The Bush Administration waves the flag and says support the military and the war, and some people fall for it.

Actions speak louder than words and in their actions the Bush Administration have spoken very loudly about who and what they support.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 02:12 AM
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See the Actual Video of Boxer's comments.

I find all of the hyperventilating over Boxer's comment nauseating.


This feigned outrage is nothing more than a convenient distraction from the point that was being made. WHO PAYS THE PRICE?

Not Boxer.

Not Rice.

Not Bush...or Cheney...or most of us.

Low blow?

Where is everyone's outrage when a national network promotes a segment titled, "Enemy of the State", where simply disagreeing with this administration grants you eligibility for this despicable label?

Or where is everyone's outrage at the hatred regularly spewed by several major market radio hosts...or the subsequent treatment of the blogger who exposed their nonsense? See ABC shut down blogger who criticized violent rhetoric on one of its radio stations

I find this whole tempest-in-a-teapot pathetic and unconvincing...

*yawn*



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 03:50 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
If the draft was reinstated, America would revolt en mass. If Bush is so damn stupidly gung ho, let him take the bold position of forcing enlistment.

That was Charles Rangel's reasoning for his draft bill, but a lot of people still don't get what he was trying to do.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 06:29 AM
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aww...little conservative Condi, someone who can definately afford to have kids. shunned the traditional marriage, shunned her "God Given" obligation to have kids, and went after a career??? no...say it isn't so!!!

they demonize working mothers for not being home tending to their kids...that's the reason for all of society's ills ya know.

they domonize single moms.....it would have been better for them to have just put up with abusive relationships I suspose.

they will also tell those single moms they if THEY couldn't afford to have the kids, they shouldn't have had them....of course, those same women should have been happy just tending to their kids and making hubby happy instead of working....so, actually, they should have never have had kids, right...
but, oh, there is the part about making the hubby happy, so ummm...if sex makes them happy.....oh, but abortion, in case the birth control happens to fail should be outlawed...

and nope, the minimum wage should be done away with, not increased.....

and well, nothing whatsoever should be done to keep the healthcare costs to have this baby down...lol...if they can't afford it, they shouldn't have it right???

come on!! with all the crap that is been flung out about the mothers in this country, this little bit aimed at condi is smallfish!!!

they want the war, they should be willing to sacrifice a little to do it. at least increase that taxes a little so that the people serving can have decent armor?? do away with the tax cuts so the kids serving over there aren't also stuck with the bill??
the men and women serving in these wars and their families and close friends are the only ones sacrificing anything. and well, my bet is there are plenty in this country who have gotten all their little ducks in order, invested in the right stocks and are making a killing...they have no desire to see an end in it! spead the sacrifice around a little and I bet things would go alot smoother over there and the job would get done alot fas ter, since it would no longer be advantagous for it to be prolonged.




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