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European Union Talks Collapse

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posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:25 PM

Originally posted by JohnnyPoland won't receive nothing. Now we need these votes to make decisions to help not only Eastern Germany but also us, in the upcoming future.

Don't get my posts wrong, I fully accept and understand what you are saying above

Your from US SS, you control him..

I am not
just got those cards and several others in a big meeting with US intelligences.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Seekerof
Most Europeans? Surely not....Seems popularity of the EU is dropping and has been:
"Eu's Popularity Waning in Europe"

"For the first time in six years, less than half of European Union citizens believe EU membership is a ‘good thing,’ according to early results of a poll released today.

The number of people favouring EU membership dropped by 6% since spring to 48%, the lowest level since 1997.

Of those polled by Eurobarometer, 46% said the EU personally benefits them, a drop of 4% from spring, while the respondents disliking EU membership rose by 5% to one third overall.

Less than half of respondents favoured expansion of the EU, a level unchanged since the last poll.

Strong support for the euro, at 70%, fell by five points in the same period.

The European Commission blamed the confidence slump on economic woes."

Talking economic problems....Germany and France, both of which have substantial deficits, again, both of which breach the EU Deficit Treaty Limits, and both are seeking to have these absolved......

The EU is growing economically at half the rate that the US is currently growing.
On top of that, you have increasing anti-semitism ever growing within its boundries....

What amazes me is that the EU will have 25 members and its little ole' TWO that are holding the constitution up (Spain and Poland)?! 2 nations don't make a majority, do they? Seems to me that France and Germany are running the show...and any educated Pole would be very, very cynical of those two...memories of Franco-Prussian comes to mind....
This is nothing but more whining from the France and Germany camps in wanting to reduce the combined SPain and Polish votes of 27, which is still less than the combined Germany and France total votes of 29.....but lets see....they want to further decrease Spain's and Poland's voting by making a new voting arrangement??

Poland and Spain simply do not want to cut their rights on what they feel they deserve, and that is simply that every citizen and nation is counted and represented fairly. The sovereignty of a nation or state, just as the rights of an individual or citizen, is by rights, not up for any kind of compromise.

Does make you wonder why Poles have been preferring America as a place for immagrating to for the last 200 years or so........


Yes Germany and France have deficit problems, but most countries do. But jobs are available. Under EU law, any citizen from any member country can receive employment in any other member state, without a visa(greencard). Will German or French citizens be heading out in droves to seek employment in Spain or Poland?? Or will it be the other way around, as it has always been? Same as here in the U.S., or any other wealthy nation: the disadvantaged come, illegally, or now in the case of the EU, legally. Even before the emergence of the EU, the Polish, Italians, Portugese, Turks, and Spanish have went to Germany to seek jobs.

Is it a wonder why Turkey is now so desperate for admission to the EU? What are the advantages/disadvantages for Turkey of acceptance to the EU? Should they have just as strong of a voice as Germany or France, or Poland and Spain for that matter?

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:37 PM

Originally posted by shoo

Originally posted by SeekerofOn top of that, you have increasing anti-semitism ever growing within its boundries....

Any proof of that? I really hate that so many US citizens like to mark Germany or Europe in general anti-semitic but most don't even know more than the name of those.

And I thought the Polish were the worse antisemits

Good I am tolerant. But polish hatred to them makes me sick.
Jews of course hate Polish more than Polish hate Jews

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:44 PM
Here you go:
"The EU and Anti-Semitism"

"Manifestations of anti-Semitism in the European Union"

"Fears of anti-Semitism sweep Europe
Leftists, intellectuals blaming Israel for world's ills"


"EU calls on Israel to dismantle outposts, slams anti-Semitism"

"German lawmakers: anti-Semitism spreading to mainstream"

"Hatred, European style"


posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:49 PM
Did the topic change to anti-semitism now?

I hope not, this was starting to be good thread........

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:57 PM
Anyway, whan Poland is to become a member of the EU, let it fight for its rights.
This may bring us some good.
(Though propably when we become a member, other members will consider us an american troyan horse, anong with GB.)

Maybe they'll be touched by Leszek Miller's state?

Anyway, polish polititians are very incompetent. As I know them, they'll spoil everything.

Besides, they are left-winged. People who ruled the country before, who refused to accept the Marchall Plan and who have corrupted the country for 60 years, doday will propably do the same.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 04:02 PM

- I really took the time to read the article and I must say that I seem to have lived in some other thing called "Europe".

Following this article we are hunting Jews all over in Europe. Ah well, I can't blame you for trying to get an overview of the situation from such studies.

The only increase of anit-semitism I realised was from Muslim people in european ´countries.

BUT if you equal disagreement with the Israel government with anti-semitism we really have anti-semitism at rise here. There were a few popular people in Germany who took a word against the Israeli government(just the government) in connection with the palestines...the results are always the same. The result was as always: "anti-semitism!!! Nazis!!! Wahhh..argh...!"
Don't fear that the EU becomes anti-semitic. It's just anti-current-israeli-government.

And europeans can differ between Israelis, the jewish religion and the government.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 04:31 PM

Originally posted by shoo

Don't fear that the EU becomes anti-semitic. It's just anti-current-israeli-government.

And europeans can differ between Israelis, the jewish religion and the government.

Well you see, simple people like some Americans are trying to make us feel bad cause we oppose corrupt and criminal goverments that are committing genocides..

And are trying to make us as nazis because they themselfs cant make/see a difference between peoples, goverments and religions..

They cant see the facts.

And they, the Americans cant see this because the CNN doesnt tell em that the current Israeli goverment is headed by a war criminal respossible for massacre of 3000 civilians in a Lebanese refugee camp.

And that in Israel the orthodox-Jews hold much power and are stealing land from palestinians and live in these settlements..

They fail to see that only thing that separates these settlers and orthodox-Jews from Al-Qaida and Taleban is the god to which these belive in. Other than that they are just the same.

Please remember:

Last moderate leader that Israel has had was murdered by orthodox-Jew terrorists. Name of that murdered prime minister was Yitzchak Rabin.

He was murdered by the fanatics that now hold power in Israel.

Yitzchak Rabin was murdered by orthodox-Jew.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 04:33 PM
It isnt Anti-semitism to loath criminals.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 05:25 PM
It's kinda ill what European nations are giving up to join the EU. They have opened their borders for blending and meshing, which isn't always a good thing. These countries have been equal for so long to ask the Spainards and Poles to take a back seat in a government that controls laws they have to live under sounds a little oppressive to me.

In america the system is set up like the French and the Germans want it. Every state gets 2 sentors and depending on your population you get x about of representatives in the house. I think it's fair that way but I can see where the Poles and Spanish would reject this because less people equal less votes and when you are use to having sole control of the law that governs you--you shouldn't be so willing to give that up to other nations. Sovereignity is so important to the little guy. That's the reason the EU is such a bad idea.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 06:02 PM

Originally posted by shoo

1) Very nice opinion, at least I know why your nick includes the phrase "ultra".

2) Now listen and read carefully

3) It doesn't take much to realize it is not about revenge but about basic principes of democracy.

1) No, you don't know. You just think that you know.

2) Sorry, I'm very lazzy for the moment.

3) Yeah yeah....But you forget one thing. These voting rules have been signed by ALL the side. And France & germany didn't have any problem with these voting rules when they signed them. But now they've seen that Spain & Poland weren't standing up WITH them but with the USA, they want to change these rules.

What kinds of rules are we talking about ? France & Germany signed these rules, but now they don't like them anymore, they want to change them. Especially since Spain & Poland told they were WITH the USA. And of course, this change will be very usefull for France & Germany who'll have the power to say "shut up " to Spain & Poland. Yeah, talk about " democracy ".

France & Germany want to be the european powerhouse, and they don't care with medium nation as Spain, Italy or Poland. No wonder what they'll do with little nation as Belgium, Portugal, Denmark... etc etc... Anywyay I don't have to be worry with my country ( Belgium ). Belgium is allways licking the frenchie/Germans a$$, so France & Germany will take care of Belgium.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 06:12 PM

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Frenchie/Germans a$$, so France & Germany will take care of Belgium.

Belgium politicans also like to lick little kiddies. The scandals are still not solved so don't try to make Belgium a good example for something related to politics

Anyways I understand what you are pointing at but it is something that germans don't give a f00k about at all. And that's that spain and poland supported the USA for the last gulf war and didn't stand by Germany and France.
When you would make a poll in Germany about "Should we be angry that Poland and Spain didn't stand by us for the Gulf-war issue?" I guarantee you that all people will answer "I don't give a poop about it".

It is really like that, of course Germany and France want more votes to have a favour on their own but you can't be angry on them for wanting that + having the principes of democracy behind, eh?
I don't know why all people bully France and Germany at EU topics, it should be mentioned that the smaller countries gained far more from the EU system as the big did. But if it floats your boat, do as you please.

Btw. no offense to Belgium or belgians, one of my best mates is from Antwerpen

[Edited on 15-12-2003 by shoo]

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 06:36 PM
You know, we Americans tried the "united" thing, and even with a failsafes in place, we had a big problem with the large states forcing their goals on the rest, and after four score and seven years later, it all went to pot after they gave up doing it the right way and went to guns.

Putting my conspiratorial outlook on the EU aside, its going to be a hard and arduos task, to create such an unity that is beneficial to all concerned.

Surely nobody thinks it'll happen within a few short years.

posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 06:41 PM
The votes issue was always going to be a sticker, and i believe every state should have just one vote at the table, with britain and germany having the veto's. Lets face it, the french are serving themselves and its normally germany or the UK that funds these little euro ventures they love so much.

Did you know the British economy is growing at over 2% per annum whereas in france and germany growth is around 0.2% per annum?

Thats a REAL strong single currency you've got right there.

posted on Dec, 18 2003 @ 10:26 PM
Nerdling, seems that Poland is enjoying being defiant in the face of France and Germany and most of the EU. Seems that Poles have not forgotten the past lessons they have been taught of the centuries.
Ran across this article:
"Poland Takes Pride in Assertive Stance Toward Neighbors"
part one)

Link: (part two)

Seems that Poland and the Poles, in general, are in no mood to just go with the flow or go along to get along...mainly in regards to France and Germany and even Russia.


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