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Tears of a President

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posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 11:11 PM
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In war there is no winners ever, there is only degrees of loss on both sides.

I think Herbert Hover said something like this "old men declare war and young men fight them"

I think wars are senseless and serve no purpose. I am no passive person either, but you have to look at things from a basic logical perspective.

War, fear are circular confrontations, war only begets more war. The only time man will ever learn is when all of human kind learns to understand each other completely. Otherwise this internal and external power stuggle will continue.

And most of the people in the US see compassion, love, and kindness as a weakness to be preyed upon......this is a major flaw...it's time to really get in touch or this will never end.

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Realtruth]




posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 11:37 AM
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That is a wonderful sentiment..

However

In order for the world, or any single country with a conscious, to have the "peace in the valley" utopia that so many on here yearn for... EVERY single person in the world must feel the same...

EVERY ONE!!!

For if there is ONE man, ONE woman, that exists that will take advantage of another person. ONE man, ONE woman that will do evil for evil's sake, that cares nothing for their fellow man, ONE person that takes advantage, or more currently, one set of people that believes their religion, their way of life MUST be forced on another; then there also must be those that stand in the breach.

War is horrible. War is death. Yet what is the alternative? To live as another tells us to? To accept another's religion as our own simply to keep the peace? To allow another to rule over us? Unacceptable in any form!

Evil must be combated. Words are pretty, words are nice and eloquent most times, yet at this time in history, not enough.

For at this time in history, there are those that would have us worship the way they think we should and THEY ARE ready to do violence to achieve their goals. If there are none to stand against them, they shall have their way and you , that's right YOU, will no longer be able to express your opinion. Teach your girls, worship your god, or not worship your god.

Without war, you will be a pawn of those that ARE willing to fight that war.

Sit around over here and wait for it to come to us. NOW that is a strategy as well, one fraught with destruction at best. At what point to we step up and decide that they are getting too powerful OVER THERE? What point do we decide they are strong enough to come over here change our way of life? Do we finally step up when it is too late? Or do we stop them now?

Closing the barn door, either now, or when the horse is gone.

Semper



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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Powerful individuals only got that way because other individuals gave their power to them. It's time that people start realizing their own individual power and not always give it up so easily.


If you take away all the politics, media telling us what to think, corruption, law, chaos, etc.......what you have is a person standing there that is free. We are free and are powerful, but we for some reason keep giving our power to others because we think that they are superior, smarter, better than us.

Who knows better what you want than you? President? Doctors? Government? Large corporations? Religious Organizations?


Why?



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 12:39 PM
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So are you advocating a society of individuals, without structure, cohesion or any form of Government at all??

That would be akin to the "Hippy" communes of the 70's and completely chaotic and without merit as a form of society.

There is always going to be one or two individuals that will seek to take either control of an individual, or take what that individual possess. Is there anyone on here that can deny that as a fact?

That said, there must be those that stand against them, that stand and protect those that can not stand for themselves. Then, there also must be a form of control over the ones that stand in the breach, that form of control is a government. Not possible to get around it without total anarchy.

Mob Rule does not work..

Semper



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Why would you say such things about a man, no matter the stature.
How would you feel in his position. it seems like nothing can please you people. quit being so damn HEARTLESS, and give the guy a break.

Would you not shead a tear, if the men you sent into battle died, under your command.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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It's about his advisers too, Semp. Most of them need to hang with him. None of this Saddam stuff, all alone. The whole bleeding ship needs to go down because it's rotten to the core. Rove, Cheney, the energy panel, Rice, Wolfowitz, Rummy. (nice to see him gone, now he'll be cya'ing for a livin'.)

Some of us here actually knew this misery was coming when this whole crock of idiots took the helm and started meddling in anything they thought was their business--with BUSINESS being the key word there. Faith-based charities--what business is it of their's but to payoff some clergy to get them on their side?, education bills that mean nothing about learning but more work for the schools. None of it's working, yet it's toted as such wonderful wonderful things. It was all about special interest and never truly for the citizenry.

Oh we all got a nifty little tax rebate his first year, but look what they've done to OUR budget since? Shameful the debt, yet who's pocketing it all? Cronies, Inc., that's who.

We knew WAR was going to be hell (as you put it), and hell we are living... not just kids fighting in it, heck, I know one who's crazy enough to want to go back there. The kid has no morals, or very few good ones anyway. Kinda like your Shrubster. Who, btw, will probably go down in History as a the biggest nutcase to ever attain power. But we know who put him there, and they're going down too.

When this nation wakes up and WANTS to know the truth, starts seeking the Truth, the US can once again stand PROUD to be among the international community. Not the global rabid dog it appears to be now.

This is what war's brought us to. Misery, Suffering, and Death. You're right, I want that "peace in the valley", I wanted it yesterday and I'll want it tomorrow. Anyone who wants WAR is absolutely sick in the head. (but don't worry, they're building a case for Jr. to get off on that too)

They'll probably even use this picture for evidence he's out of his gourd.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Psy...

You are correct in the way that you feel.. I support that, I do not agree, but I support that opinion 100%..

However, that is not the "Norm" around here..

The "Norm" is to post Hate and vitriolic sentiments about only the one man... I can understand, not agree, but understand a hate for policy.... I can even understand a hate for actions, for ideals. I can even understand the hate radical muslim's feel.

That is not the normal post on here in that regard. It is all about now evil President Bush is... "Bush's War"... Bush is a terrorist.... On and on and on.. Nothing but spewing hatred for one man. As if our entire country was made up of one man making sole decisions..

The vile posts are complete with the twisting of his words in speeches and then calling him a liar... The voted on war, by congress and attributing it all to him... Heck, even saying he planted bombs in New Orleans to destroy the Levies!!! Hate is an evil thing and I have tried to understand the hatred many, not some, many posters feel and have yet to come to grips with so irrational a feeling towards one man...
I understand that Democrats hate him because they lost their coveted power to him. That makes sense, but when confronted with the word Democrat, all of the haters on here start yelling.. "I'm not a democrat.. I'm a Moderate..!!!!" Yeah right!!!

It is apparent, nay OBVIOUS, that the posters I refer to, HATE that one man... Reading some of the vileness that has been posted, one could almost conclude that these posters know him personally and have been the target of some action on his part that destroyed them in some way.

He is however, only the President. With powers strictly limited by the Constitution of the United States. His actions must be advised, confirmed and acted on by members of his staff and the Congress.

One can only wonder just what wonderful things may have been accomplished if he did not find it necessary to fight not only terrorist's, but a large section of the country as well. If he did not wake every morning, sure of his convictions, and also sure he is hated for some unknown reason only the haters can fathom...

Semper



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:48 PM
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Your "mob rule does not work" statement just contradicted everything you just said.

Mob organized or not is what is in control of everything right now. The mob that is the most organized, has the most money, power, and war machine rules all the others......so mob does actually rule.




Originally posted by semperfortis
So are you advocating a society of individuals, without structure, cohesion or any form of Government at all??

That would be akin to the "Hippy" communes of the 70's and completely chaotic and without merit as a form of society.

There is always going to be one or two individuals that will seek to take either control of an individual, or take what that individual possess. Is there anyone on here that can deny that as a fact?

That said, there must be those that stand against them, that stand and protect those that can not stand for themselves. Then, there also must be a form of control over the ones that stand in the breach, that form of control is a government. Not possible to get around it without total anarchy.

Mob Rule does not work..

Semper




[edit on 13-1-2007 by Realtruth]



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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OK, RT

That is not what I was referring to..

But hey, Go with it...

Semper



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Patriot36
Only now is Bush showing signs of being a human ?


Don't bet onnit. Looked more like some kind of sick leakage to me.

Puts me in the mind of Bill Clinton when he was walking to that funeral (can't remember now who it was..); yukking it up and laughing just moments before he "wept" for the cameras.

To George W. Bush, I say (quoting Doug Thompson's grandpa)

"If you want sympathy, you can find it in the dictionary between sh** and syphilis."



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Patriot36
This was during a ceremony in honor of Cpl Jason Dunham
who was given the Medal of Honor for his actions in Iraq.

Only now is Bush showing signs of being a human ?


I hope the sorrow of every mother and father who lost
a child from this illegal war comes back to haunt Bush
for his remaining days.


It would suprise me if he was feeling the emotions of being human. I wouldent have the stomoch to handle sending thousands of people to their deaths for no good reason. I respect those who go off to war in the hope that it will bring about the end of an oppresive regime and bring us to peace. They are just following orders and should be honered for their sacrafice. It is the leaders of the conflict that should be held accountable for these actions. I agree I hope Mr. Bush is haunted by the ghosts of the people whos lives he has destroyed.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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The only fitting outcome would be for Mr. Bush to be impeached, tried for war crimes and sentenced to life in the gulag of his making.

That would give him plenty of time to reflect on the incalculable damage he's done to so many peoples' lives.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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Here's some names for you, if Jr. isn't enough:

Elliot Abrams, Richard L.Armitage, William Bennet, Jeffrey Bergner, John Bolton, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Robet Kagan, Zalmay Halilzad, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Peter W.Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, William Schneider Jr., Vin Veber, Paul D.Wolfowitz, R.James Woolsey and Robert B.Zoellick.

Guess what? PNAC is closing up shop

Off to enjoy the spoils of war?



[edit on 13-1-2007 by psyopswatcher]



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by psyopswatcher
Here's some names for you, if Jr. isn't enough:

Elliot Abrams, Richard L.Armitage, William Bennet, Jeffrey Bergner, John Bolton, Paula Dobriansky, Francis Fukuyama, Robet Kagan, Zalmay Halilzad, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Peter W.Rodman, Donald Rumsfeld, William Schneider Jr., Vin Veber, Paul D.Wolfowitz, R.James Woolsey and Robert B.Zoellick.





[edit on 13-1-2007 by psyopswatcher]


The whole damn lot of them should be tried.



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 12:21 AM
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Then it is a VERY good thing that calmer more rational intellects are making those kinds of decisions...

At least they seem to be able to separate the hate from what is good for the country.

Semper



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
Then it is a VERY good thing that calmer more rational intellects are making those kinds of decisions...

At least they seem to be able to separate the hate from what is good for the country.

Semper


Good god! Are you one of those 25-30% of the people left in this country who actually still supports Bush?



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 12:44 AM
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I support many things...

Chief among them rational thought bereft of emotional baggage.

I also support action taken when action is necessary and I oppose socialist agenda driven political ideals.

I appreciate and support logical and intellectual reasoning as it pertains to the running of my government.

I am also not as swayed by the liberal media annihilation of a conservative President.

I also support those that understand and can comprehend that without complete knowledge of any situation, making judgments on that situation is foolish and dangerous. That is why there are Generals and Presidents.

I support the complete factual basis of understanding that there is no one on this board with the knowledge so complete as to judge anyone as harshly as President Bush is being judged; not without the full impact of the hatred already discussed in previous postings.

I do not understand hatred. At least none so vile as is being spewed forth on a regular basis in regards to the President.

I understand that I have friends currently in Iraq. I understand that I have been there. I understand that I currently correspond with several soldiers serving there. All that being said...

I also understand that the amount of propaganda and acceptance of that propaganda on ATS is only possibly equaled by the gullible media hogs that devour everything the papers say as fact.

Hope that answers your questions...

Semper



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
I support many things...

Chief among them rational thought bereft of emotional baggage.

I also support action taken when action is necessary and I oppose socialist agenda driven political ideals.

I appreciate and support logical and intellectual reasoning as it pertains to the running of my government.

I am also not as swayed by the liberal media annihilation of a conservative President.

I also support those that understand and can comprehend that without complete knowledge of any situation, making judgments on that situation is foolish and dangerous. That is why there are Generals and Presidents.

I support the complete factual basis of understanding that there is no one on this board with the knowledge so complete as to judge anyone as harshly as President Bush is being judged; not without the full impact of the hatred already discussed in previous postings.

I do not understand hatred. At least none so vile as is being spewed forth on a regular basis in regards to the President.

I understand that I have friends currently in Iraq. I understand that I have been there. I understand that I currently correspond with several soldiers serving there. All that being said...

I also understand that the amount of propaganda and acceptance of that propaganda on ATS is only possibly equaled by the gullible media hogs that devour everything the papers say as fact.

Hope that answers your questions...

Semper



Gawdam. I think you just wrote a sweet love song.

Now let's get real.

What are you? Some kind of Brokeback Mountain Bush lover?

You must be that last alamo 20 percent that still clings to Dubya - the cheerleader.

Have you ever served in the Army or Marines?

If you had, you'd know how purely stupid this latest maneuver of Jr.'s really is.

If you have, just confess up front your DELTA all the way, and we'll leave it at that.

Peace out.



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 01:24 AM
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I am what I am and those members that know me are well acquainted with my resume' so to speak...

As for the rest of your rhetoric, I am unsure of your euphemistic analogies especially in reference to a "Broke Back Mountain Bush Lover."?

I was under the impression that this thread had already almost degraded into a "Bush Hating Free Love Fest." It seemed that all of you that are overwhelmingly ruled by your hatred had accumulated in this one place and time and appeared to be practicing free love on that subject.

I sincerely hope I got your illation correct, if not accept my apology.

Semper



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 01:29 AM
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No one here loves Bush anymore.

Like him, tho, those that still support him do so b/c they can't stand to be wrong.

He's an idiot, and the 25th ammendment needs to be invoked pronto.



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