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They wanted to "pull it" which means to take down a building with CD.
Originally posted by CameronFox
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Problem is thier have been other steel buildings that have burned for several hours even over a day and did not collapse even with the fire causing structural damage to the building.
Kind of interesting how the official story says that tower 1 caused severe damage to builidng 7 to help it collapse when builidng 6 was in front of builidng 7 and sustained more damage but did not collapse, it was pulled later. Building 7 was at the very peremeter of tower 1s reach.
> This steel building that burned for hours...and over a day, did it have debris from a 100 story skyscraper tear into it?
> Was it built over an electrical substation?
> How was building 6 constructed?Have you ever seen the damage that building 6 took? It was massive, but true...it did not collapse. There was a MASSIVE hole in the middle of the building...any info on if there was a partial collapse?
> There was in fact extensive damage to WTC7.. I have posted numerous eyewitness reports from Firefighters, Policemen, EMT's, and Journalists confirming this.
Originally posted by snoopy
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Problem is thier have been other steel buildings that have burned for several hours even over a day and did not collapse even with the fire causing structural damage to the building.
Kind of interesting how the official story says that tower 1 caused severe damage to builidng 7 to help it collapse when builidng 6 was in front of builidng 7 and sustained more damage but did not collapse, it was pulled later. Building 7 was at the very peremeter of tower 1s reach.
wait, let me guess. Don't tell me... *******drum roll*******
The Madrid Windsor???
The building like many other used as examples are actually concrete buildings with parts that are steel. And in the case of that building, the steel parts DID collapse. And that building suffered no structural damage at all. it also did not lose its fire protection, and it did not lose its sprinkler system. It was also being fought the entire time. Maybe WTC 7 could have lasted 26 hours if firefighters were trying to put the fires out.
Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse
Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.
1. The One Meridian Plaza Fire
One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire starting on the 22nd floor, and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".
The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.
2. The First Interstate Bank Fire
The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss.
A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of a total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans.
3. The 1 New York Plaza Fire
1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours.
4. Caracas Tower Fire
The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began on the 34th floor and spread to over 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.
Originally posted by whoknew
Anok.. what are your views on the document linked on the first page from implosinworld? As mentioned earlier in this thread it confused me. Do you have any resources you could recommend that will contradict it?
With the weight and mass of the upper sections forcing the floor trusses below rapidly downwards, there was no way for the perimeter walls to fall in, so they had to fall out. A review of all photographic images clearly show about 95% of falling debris being forced away from the footprint of the structure, crating a giant "mushroom" effect around it's perimeter.
If there was any doubt about what "pull it" means, it is put to rest by another quote in the same video: "... we're getting ready to pull building six."
Originally posted by ANOK
OK guys you need to analyze what Silverstein said, not just buy what some web site tells you because it fits your official story fantasy.
"I remember getting a call from the, uh, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'You know we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it.' Uh, and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."
First off the smartest thing to do to a building that is a raging inferno is not to quit fighting it. Secondly he used the term 'it' not 'them'. 'It' is an inanimate object, not people.
But the last part of the sentence clinches it for me. He said "and we watched the building collapse". That is the conclusion to his statement. He didn't say "And we watched the fire crew pull out". He WAS talking about the building NOT the fire crews.
Also note no surprise in his voice, no 'and amazingly we watched the building collapse', as you would expect for such an odd occurrence for a building under any condition.
But really the physics do not fit for such a collapse. Even under raging fire the building could not have collapsed in such a neat demo style. It fell in it's own footprint, don't try to tell me it didn't, look at the pics of it. An almost impossible situation in a chaotic, unevenly damaged building on fire. There is no precedence for this, but there is presendence for buildings to continue standing under raging fires.
He didn't say "And we watched the fire crew pull out". He WAS talking about the building NOT the fire crews.
Originally posted by CameronFox
Anok... WHEN please tell me WHEN did the Fire Department get the authorization to blow up skyscrapers?
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
Anok... WHEN please tell me WHEN did the Fire Department get the authorization to blow up skyscrapers?
Why would the fire department need authorization to blow up anything when they had demo teams and excavation crews on scene ?
But don't forget the fire rescue units do have the kowledge and equiment to cut beams.
Which due to the condition of building 7 with all the structural and fire damage (according to the official story) probly all it would have taken is some cut beams to bring it down.
Originally posted by CameronFox
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
Anok... WHEN please tell me WHEN did the Fire Department get the authorization to blow up skyscrapers?
Why would the fire department need authorization to blow up anything when they had demo teams and excavation crews on scene ?
But don't forget the fire rescue units do have the kowledge and equiment to cut beams.
Which due to the condition of building 7 with all the structural and fire damage (according to the official story) probly all it would have taken is some cut beams to bring it down.
So Genuis....you answered my question... the fire department gave the orders to the excavating crew on the scene....OR ...Chief Nigro told the firemen to go into the burning building with cutting torches to start cutting beams....
Sorry Mods........
Ultima...your are a twisted IDIOT to think the FDNY would demolish a building. Your PATHETIC attempt at trying to twist the truth to fit your agenda is MORONIC.
I take it personally when some d-head like this throws out unfounded accusations to a group of HEROS that died that day trying to rescue STRANGERS. You need your face PUNCHED by one of the wives or one of the children that no longer have a dad due ro what happened on 911. ASS!
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by CameronFox
Anok... WHEN please tell me WHEN did the Fire Department get the authorization to blow up skyscrapers?
Why would the fire department need authorization to blow up anything when they had demo teams and excavation crews on scene ?
But don't forget the fire rescue units do have the kowledge and equiment to cut beams.
Which due to the condition of building 7 with all the structural and fire damage (according to the official story) probly all it would have taken is some cut beams to bring it down.
So Genuis....you answered my question... the fire department gave the orders to the excavating crew on the scene....OR ...Chief Nigro told the firemen to go into the burning building with cutting torches to start cutting beams....
Sorry Mods........
Ultima...your are a twisted IDIOT to think the FDNY would demolish a building. Your PATHETIC attempt at trying to twist the truth to fit your agenda is MORONIC.
I take it personally when some d-head like this throws out unfounded accusations to a group of HEROS that died that day trying to rescue STRANGERS. You need your face PUNCHED by one of the wives or one of the children that no longer have a dad due ro what happened on 911. ASS!
Gee and all that from someone who has not provided any real evidence or official reports to back up thier side of the story.
So where did i say the firemen or fire chief gave orders to anyone ? You have to put to words in my mouth to make you look better, thats so sad.
At least i am on the side of the families looking for the truth of what happnened that day and not blindly following the media or others.
I still have not seen any credentials as to your expertise in any law enforcement or investigative status. Or knowledge in Emergency Incident Mangement.
[Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]
Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:
The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt.
The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the col-lapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did col-lapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. Chief Of Operations Nigro
Originally posted by CameronFox
Tell me, Mr. "I care for the families".... IF Silverstein ordered Chief Nigro to blow up the building. (thats who he was talking to) Then you would HAVE to agree that the FDNY was invloved. So..I am NOT putting words into your mouth...YOU didn't think things through.
Oh...so you need to be an authority in Law Enforcement? Or Emergency Incident Management. How about common sence?
Re-Read what you posted and explain to me what you meant by the following statements the YOU WROTE:
>"Why would the fire department need authorization to blow up anything when they had demo teams and excavation crews on scene ?"
>"But don't forget the fire rescue units do have the kowledge and equiment to cut beams."
>"Which due to the condition of building 7 with all the structural and fire damage (according to the official story) probly all it would have taken is some cut beams to bring it down. "
Remember this started with my question to Anok....
"Anok... WHEN please tell me WHEN did the Fire Department get the authorization to blow up skyscrapers?"
THINK Ultima... Silverstein was on the phone with Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro...who in fact was in charge because Chief of Department Peter Ganci was killed in the Noth Tower collapse.
So, in thinking that Silverstein ordered his building demolished....he originally had planned on Peter Ganci to do it? Then he died...so Lucky Larry felt that he should recruit Chief Nigro?
See if I am putting words in your mouth...Im sorry...but please explain how in the HELL this would have worked!
It was the combined effort of MANY to abandon fire fighting efforts and RESCUE efforts. NOT Silverstein.
[Fire Engineering magazine, 10/2002]
Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro:
The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC 7] building. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building’s integrity was in serious doubt.
And Athother Interview:
The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was [that] the col-lapse [Of the WTC towers] had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did col-lapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely. Chief Of Operations Nigro
/g8c6y
I think you should go back to talking about the missile hitting the Pentagon...at least some buy your BS there.
/n5xap
An employee of Solomon Smith Barney who worked in WTC 7 says,
I actually worked at WTC7 and was there on 9-11. From the minute the first plane hit the towers, WTC7 was getting hit with debris.
In fact, when I finally got down to the lobby 45 minutes later, we were all forced to leave through the back since so much debris had hit the building and blocked the entrance.
I also would love to have someone tell me how the 28-44th floors were wired for demolition, when we packed like sardines after the merger with Smith Barney and most floors had people on them 7 days a week. ( A few floors were trading floors so it was 24x7 and many worked 6-7 days a week), and I never saw one construction crew in my time there doing anything significant.
Why won't CT's talk to people who worked at WTC7? My friends and I who worked with at Salomon are eager to talk but I'm guessing you won't like the answers.
Originally posted by CameronFox
I do have a quote from a worker at WTC7....
An employee of Solomon Smith Barney who worked in WTC 7 says,
I actually worked at WTC7 and was there on 9-11. From the minute the first plane hit the towers, WTC7 was getting hit with debris.
In fact, when I finally got down to the lobby 45 minutes later, we were all forced to leave through the back since so much debris had hit the building and blocked the entrance.
I also would love to have someone tell me how the 28-44th floors were wired for demolition, when we packed like sardines after the merger with Smith Barney and most floors had people on them 7 days a week. ( A few floors were trading floors so it was 24x7 and many worked 6-7 days a week), and I never saw one construction crew in my time there doing anything significant.
Why won't CT's talk to people who worked at WTC7? My friends and I who worked with at Salomon are eager to talk but I'm guessing you won't like the answers.
Originally posted by CameronFox
Whoknew...
WTC7 is our discussion. I THINK you are reffering to one of the towers.
Ask yourself...
Internet cables? So?? Constant upgrades... i know it happens in my building (100.000 sq. ft) all the time.... be it fiberoptics... cat5, or RG6.
White powder? Not sure where you heard that or by whom.
I do have a quote from a worker at WTC7..../n5xap
An employee of Solomon Smith Barney who worked in WTC 7 says,
I actually worked at WTC7 and was there on 9-11. From the minute the first plane hit the towers, WTC7 was getting hit with debris.
In fact, when I finally got down to the lobby 45 minutes later, we were all forced to leave through the back since so much debris had hit the building and blocked the entrance.
I also would love to have someone tell me how the 28-44th floors were wired for demolition, when we packed like sardines after the merger with Smith Barney and most floors had people on them 7 days a week. ( A few floors were trading floors so it was 24x7 and many worked 6-7 days a week), and I never saw one construction crew in my time there doing anything significant.
Why won't CT's talk to people who worked at WTC7? My friends and I who worked with at Salomon are eager to talk but I'm guessing you won't like the answers.
Evil Dick
Remeber....the burden of proof is on you to provide since it is YOUR opinion ( I assume) that Silverstein told the Fire Department to blow up his building.
video.google.com...
Also, so "pull it" isn't a term used by demolition experts when CDing buildings?.. Oh really?
I can find DOZENS of other references.