In reality you can find fault with anything. Even if the mods/admin are serving some hidden agenda it doesn't prevent us from receiving interesting information from those who are genuine.

To me I see a lot of contradictions here. Many of those who claim to be 'sceptics' seem to blindly trust this site and don't doubt it's credibility - slightly hypocritical if you ask me. A self-proclaimed sceptic should be just that, a sceptic, on all matters IMHO.

Conversely, when those with open minds come along and say "ATS ARE OUT TO GET US!!!" then I can't help but think, "What? I though you were open minded? Shouldn't you be open to all possibilities here?"

Personally I prefer the latter, open mind = expansion of the mind.

This thread was closed, then re-opened... hmmm....

Yes, because though other threads were aluded to, no link was provided for our members to peruse such threads. (this has since been rectified, so no worries). I'd direct members to continue the debate on that thread really.

Also, many members, and staff, have certainly put a lot of time and effort into showing that there IS good evidence for the existence of alien life, so when someone comes along stating we're trying to "hide the truth" when the evidence (and posts) are much to the contrary, it's kind of like a sucker punch to the gut for no reason.

Threads are moved, members are banned, etc. due to the terms and conditions and for the sake of organizing information. Threads are not closed or moved because a mod disagrees with an opinion. (Lord knows, if that were the case, you'd never see a "Reptilian" thread or a "latest chat with ET" thread). Content doesn't determine this....the member's treatment of others (per the T&C) does. If you read the T&C and then go back and see the events leading to a ban, etc., you'll then fully realize what happened and what led to it.

That said, if the original poster would like to post some evidence that supports the assertion that ATS is indeed "withholding the truth" about UFOs, then I'd certainly love to see it, as it would be news to me.....

Originally posted by Alien Agenda
No one has offered more in the way of personal exploration into the unknown in ATS than me....

like i said,
if you try to be the smartest guy in the room your going to get hammerd.

now go to your room, and think about what you've done.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

It won't be infiltrated, nor will it take off. There will be No setup, void that which you yourself perceive; however, it will be closed.

Please add further comments/contributions to one of the ongoing discussions regarding that which you purport.

Thank you.

Closing ...

I can understand when a MOD closes a stupid thread that doesnt belong here or might have been repeated.

BUT....

sometimes its the wording that can anger some people. I know its hard to determine someone's tone here, BUT we have those smiley faces for a reason.

for Example, like the quote above, to me it sounds cold and like its from a BOT on those that rooms. I know he wrote it for this thread and might be pissed about this guys comments, BUT, ive seen this kind of tone even on other threads (maybe not from this MOD), with tamer and innocent topics.

Either the mods are having a day or they have BIG heads cause they have some power (which im not sure but i think theres a lil of both).

So close or move a thread if you see it fit, BUT, why not be alil HUMAN about it (ONCE AGAIN THIS DOESNT GO FOR ALL MOD)

And for the record even though this is a free site, we still are technically the customers or client so treat us alil nicer and maybe youll get the same respect back. You have to lead by example as hard as that might be with some obnoxious posters on here.

As for the conspiracy this thread is talking about on here well never know it could be half and half, it could be the upper management, well never know. But even if theres just once true honest person on here then we have a fighting chance and not all is lost.

I think this is related to "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and from reading the two long threads (I joined ATS after reading AA's thread) there are some people who post over and over and over because they do not get the answer they wish (sometimes there are reasons for someone not directly answering a qustion..live with it). Then they complain....and the squeaky wheel gets greased....thread shut down.

I think a better question would be what contributes to the resistance in discussing uncertainties. That's what the topic is - a huge mass of speculation, anecdotal experience, questionable and murky concrete evidence and forays into and out of imagination.

If there are creatures who have created the race for the purpose of farming or utilizing our metaphysical essence - then it would be they who continually insinuate the dissension, folly of reason and personal attacks and doubts that seem to follow the subject wherever it goes.

Not by direct intervention or through human intermediaries conscious of their actions, but by contributing to an environment of competitive struggles for power and control. To do this, they need only encourage the existing defects in human moral character that we all know need to be gardened but we all lack the patience to do so. In that way - the insinuation is not an assault on free will but an exploitation of those things that we already know are destructive. This type of interference on behalf of such creatures would not be in itself negative but designed to encourage the free-will attainment of right action and thinking.

The question of why that type of interference would take place lends itself to the old adage - Nothing worth having is easy to come by. Maybe the very things we're challenged to address in our approach to the subject are the things most important to our awareness - and not that everyone agree on the nature of their existence or presence here, but that everyone grows into being able to share in uncertainties with mutual respect and love.

Wanting someone else to agree with a stance seems to suggest a personal lack of conviction in its veracity. If someone is personally convicted of the truth of their faith - they care not what externals may influence it. The testimony of the Christian martyrs bears that out.

So maybe all the resistance is so we can all agree to disagree. That belief become a spring-board to growth and not a static and unchanging consensus. I don't personally think we are to be farmed for a passive metaphysical resource of energy - but that the sentient force of the universe desires communion and not supplication. If and when a spiritual creature craves domination of will over sharing in exploration - then that will not be allowed to go to waste either.

Judgment day may not be an accounting of everyone's good and bad deeds and the doling out of rewards accordingly but a discernment of how one is best able to serve God. That could be analogous to the resistance facing the debates of UFO and unexplained phenomena. That we are not to judge the good or bad or truthful or erroneous elements of experience - but ascertain in what ways it can serve our greater attainment of enlightenment.

So personally, I don't think the frustration people suffer in regards to the phenomena is limited to one board or another - but is a result of the careful and difficult path our spiritual evolution has demanded in order for the prize to be valuable beyond anything we've yet imagined.


[edit on 12-1-2007 by clearwater]

I admit that my tone might have been harsh at times but with the amount of flack I was facing can you blame me. But alas ATS had their way.

THAT would be the reason for closing a thread...i.e. if it became a flame war, etc. and violated the T&C. It had NOTHING to do with the subject matter.

As for the move of the other, it's just moved. It's still posted for all to see, but now organized more as a conspiracy theory, as without further supporting evidence (not "proof"), it fits very well within the Skunk Works criteria for that forum...as determined by whichever mod moved it there. If you disagree, feel free to use the Complaint feature, so that other staff can view this, evaluate the complaint, and determine if a move back is warranted. A "moved" thread can hardly be said to be ATS "withholding the truth"

The "reason" this thread was re-opened was openly stated. The previous moderator cited the thread topic was already being discussed elsewhere...but, no link to such a thread was provided, so I re-opened it.

In addition, as I've devoted a lot of time to showing otherwise, I was frankly a bit insulted (as ATS staff) to be accused of "withholding the truth" after spending countless hours going through FOIA docs, newspaper clippings, websites, documentaries, etc., etc. and putting together articles that support ET visitation.

Respect the T&C that we ALL (members and staff alike) abide by, and we'll all be fine. Since the reopening, you've done just that, and so the discussion has continued.

Originally posted by probedbygrays
every single forum on the web that permits posters to abuse other posters with abusive name calling or insults to their state of mental health are guilty of helping withhold vital and secret information from the world. I've witnessed countless people being silenced by vile mobs of name-calling abusers while webmasters looked the other way.

I can speak from experience that "name calling abusers" are quickly warned by mods and asked to apologize. Is that encouraging the wolves to hunt? I don't think so. In fact, I think ATS does a damn good job in keeping not only the discussions scholarly, but civil, which is head and shoulders above any other conspiracy site on the net, where name-calling and tit-for-tat cutdowns are the norm.

I find that people here to claim mods are against them or that there's some conspiracy to silence "the truth" are just ATSers with very thin skin. Part of the magic of ATS is that people's claims aren't accepted at face value and must stand the rigor of questioning, analysis and possible alternative explanation.

If skeptical analysis is your idea of "helping withhold vital and secret information from the world," then you do more of a disservice to Ufology than not. You'd be better off writing a first-person account of your probing, publishing it in one of those yard sale quality UFO magazines on the market so no one can take the time to really question and analyze you. Some of those publications have done more to damage the credibility of Ufology than skeptics who call a dog a dog.

Originally posted by Alien Agenda
Is ATS helping to withhold the Truth about Aliens and UFOs?

I don't think this is the intention of ATS. Threads that have been closed down are done so because of the fighting and flaming that goes on in the thread. Members are banned because of their actions.

I am sure there are detractors and others who disagree with your beliefs or "truths", but I don't recall anyone being banned for simply not agreeing.

What boggles my mind is that if everyone that claims they know the truth is correct, then we have problems. Not all theories or claims match up, so something is amiss.

Imagine being in charge of sorting through all the truths and also having to deal with arguing and false claims. It sounds like a monumental task to me.

Well, he got you. Exactly what he wanted... a big conversation about... NOTHING. Got me too, as this is my second post here, for, NOTHING.

I swear, some members treat this board as their personal diary or fantasy land. The thread was rightfully CLOSED because it was irrelevant to "Aliens & UFO's" At the very least it should be bumped over to Skunk Works.

I can't believe all the long, drawn out posts responding to his "I want attention, and this thread is going to take off, I dare you to close it" statements.

Whatever

Originally posted by kiliker30
One Thing, Why would They Open And Run A Huge Forum Based Site Pretty Much About This Stuff...If They Wanted To Keep It From Us???
I Just Dont Really See Where You Are Coming From...They Are Just Doing Their Job, Which They Are Very Good At.
.:Kiliker:.

To instill false information in? And dispatch what could be true when they feel like it?
I'm not saying the direction of this site are disinformation agents, but potentialy some moderators are. We are not aware of the recruiting process of ATS really.

Originally posted by Kent01
I think this is related to "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and from reading the two long threads (I joined ATS after reading AA's thread) there are some people who post over and over and over because they do not get the answer they wish (sometimes there are reasons for someone not directly answering a qustion..live with it). Then they complain....and the squeaky wheel gets greased....thread shut down.

I'm fully with you here.

You get attacked for not been able to provide the answer. Sometimes, you just don't have the answer. Sometimes the process is exploration and trying to understand.

But, this is human reaction to the unknown, or is it deliberate attempt to sabotage someone's attempt to find the truth?

Originally posted by Gazrok

I admit that my tone might have been harsh at times but with the amount of flack I was facing can you blame me. But alas ATS had their way.

THAT would be the reason for closing a thread...i.e. if it became a flame war, etc. and violated the T&C. It had NOTHING to do with the subject matter.

As for the move of the other, it's just moved. It's still posted for all to see, but now organized more as a conspiracy theory, as without further supporting evidence (not "proof"), it fits very well within the Skunk Works criteria for that forum...as determined by whichever mod moved it there. If you disagree, feel free to use the Complaint feature, so that other staff can view this, evaluate the complaint, and determine if a move back is warranted. A "moved" thread can hardly be said to be ATS "withholding the truth"

The "reason" this thread was re-opened was openly stated. The previous moderator cited the thread topic was already being discussed elsewhere...but, no link to such a thread was provided, so I re-opened it.

In addition, as I've devoted a lot of time to showing otherwise, I was frankly a bit insulted (as ATS staff) to be accused of "withholding the truth" after spending countless hours going through FOIA docs, newspaper clippings, websites, documentaries, etc., etc. and putting together articles that support ET visitation.

Respect the T&C that we ALL (members and staff alike) abide by, and we'll all be fine. Since the reopening, you've done just that, and so the discussion has continued.

The moment AA got attacked by intrepid, why didn't a moderator intervene? You can clearly see when someone is been rude, but you let him go?
Oh wait, intrepid was a moderator too? Was he?

Originally posted by behindthescenes

Originally posted by probedbygrays
every single forum on the web that permits posters to abuse other posters with abusive name calling or insults to their state of mental health are guilty of helping withhold vital and secret information from the world. I've witnessed countless people being silenced by vile mobs of name-calling abusers while webmasters looked the other way.

I can speak from experience that "name calling abusers" are quickly warned by mods and asked to apologize. Is that encouraging the wolves to hunt? I don't think so. In fact, I think ATS does a damn good job in keeping not only the discussions scholarly, but civil, which is head and shoulders above any other conspiracy site on the net, where name-calling and tit-for-tat cutdowns are the norm.

I find that people here to claim mods are against them or that there's some conspiracy to silence "the truth" are just ATSers with very thin skin. Part of the magic of ATS is that people's claims aren't accepted at face value and must stand the rigor of questioning, analysis and possible alternative explanation.

If skeptical analysis is your idea of "helping withhold vital and secret information from the world," then you do more of a disservice to Ufology than not. You'd be better off writing a first-person account of your probing, publishing it in one of those yard sale quality UFO magazines on the market so no one can take the time to really question and analyze you. Some of those publications have done more to damage the credibility of Ufology than skeptics who call a dog a dog.

Warning is not enough. Kill their post. Simple as that. If people can talk intelligently, what are they doing here?

I like what AA was doing, it was a fun experiement, you didn't have to participate, this discussion could have keep going for months too, and it was fun and entertaining, that kind of experiences are not even remotely dangerous...

I say, you punish the guy cause the problems, not the original OP.

Originally posted by Eyesofbear

Originally posted by Alien Agenda
Is ATS helping to withhold the Truth about Aliens and UFOs?

I don't think this is the intention of ATS. Threads that have been closed down are done so because of the fighting and flaming that goes on in the thread. Members are banned because of their actions.

I am sure there are detractors and others who disagree with your beliefs or "truths", but I don't recall anyone being banned for simply not agreeing.

What boggles my mind is that if everyone that claims they know the truth is correct, then we have problems. Not all theories or claims match up, so something is amiss.

Imagine being in charge of sorting through all the truths and also having to deal with arguing and false claims. It sounds like a monumental task to me.

My friend Toc got banned with no reasons given. Just silently banned. I checked him in the member list last night, he's not even officialy banned. He can't log in and he doesn't get response from ATS moderators from his email either...

The means of doing so have already been recommended. Use the complaint feature to get the review by other staff.

The whole "ATS are spies" thing gets raised at least a couple times a month, and it's beyond old or original :@@

The reason this thread was re-opened, was so a link could be provided to the threads where similar discussions were taking place.

I'll look at the moved thread, and give my input as well.

Closing, as repopening has served it's purpose, and the previous mod was correct in closing.