Soldiers in Iraq 'did not have WMD protection'

British forces went into battle in the Iraq war without protective equipment against weapons of mass destruction -- the very "threat" used by Tony Blair to justify joining the American-led invasion.

Not one single tank or armoured vehicle was fitted with the required filter to guard against chemical and biological attacks. And the entire stock of vapour detection kits, needed after a suspected chemical attack, was found to be unusable.

An official audit found that many soldiers were issued with NBC (nuclear, chemical and biological) suits of the wrong size, making them useless, as well as ill-fitting respirators.

Supplies sent to the war zone often got lost, according to a report by the National Audit Office (NAO) published today.

OOPS.

I'm really surprised that they would make a stupid mistake like this one. The Americans were prepared enough to have WMD protection, every now and then a alarm would sound and everyone would don their WMD gear.

It's really sad how all that military equipment can get lost like that. I mean, we're talking about our valuable tax dollars being wasted here!

The military really has to find a more logistically sensible way to transport their things. It's no use having the latest state of the art technology to conquer and pummel a ravaged country when you've lost it in shipping. All those air drops aren't very accurate. They land in the wrong places sometimes. Something goes really wrong, the large airdrop containers can kill someone! Happened in Afghanistan before...

The worst threat all the soldiers had to face, and I'm assuming none wore protective gear around it, was the very ammunition they were using. At least with the United States using depleted uranium shells that aerosole into radioactive dust when exploded I imagine a lot of troops, along with Iraqi citizens are getting radiation filled lungs. Not as immediately deadly as a WMD, but in about a decade, I'm sure the lung cancer will begin.

Of course they had no protection against WMDs. Why would they have needed any? It is good budgetary control and risk assessment on the part of the Brits. Even if it blows the rationale for the urgency of invading Iraq out of the water completely.

No WMD protection? Thats only part of the supply fiasco that US Troops are facing!! I live in Germany and I am a retired Senior NCO, I go to Landsthul hospital on a regular basis to help out with the personal needs of the wounded troops. I hear story after story about no water, no hot meals, open tents in tempatures in the high 90's, lack of repair parts and so on and so on. One of the things that isnt't publicised is the rampant Intestine problems, this is because the troops are drinking local water and eating local food!! This is a large indicator that the food from the mess hall or the MRE's SUCK!! It also shows that the troops aren't being given enough bottled or clean water to drink. I was a proud soldier when I served, but what the hell is Bush and Rumsfeld doing to my brothers!! Sorry if this was a rant, but damn it!!! Our troops deserve better than this!!!

Need em cause they knew that Iraqis didnt have WMDs.

Simple as that.

Flucrum I see where you are coming from on that, but you cant convince me that would alter a standard issue question. They didnt have the equipment because it wasnt there for issue. It is representation of a military that has been severly cut back, deprived of proper training, and stocked with administrators rather than leaders. Standard issue, in the NBC area, and I can be corrected on this because my knowledge is somewhat dated, is Mask with hood, 2 chem suits, 2 sets of overshoes, 2 sets of rubbergloves with inserts and so many doses of nerve agent antidote. If these basic needs arent being met then we should really question the support structure that is currently in place for the armed forces. I really dont care�about the political overtones, what I am interested in is a functioning military that our troops can have confidence in, its almost impossible to complete any mission without proper logistical support, thats why you plan your logistics before going into troop tactics planning. All of this is just another example of how our troops, my brothers, are being treated as a "Throw-Away" article, its disgusting and it angers me to no end how these troops are being neglected. I say bring them home, and let the Iraqi's kill themselves.

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

US and UK military hasnt not resources to issue every trooper with NBC gear and training?

As we in here tiny Finland have?



Actually NBC tactics and training was about the number 1 thing what we did..



Everybody has full NBC gear issued and with them all the time..



And US and UK supposedly dont have?

Either you are stupid or you are liars..

Fulcrum I am somewhat unclear on a point here, are you calling me stupid? Because if you are you havn't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. I am sure you noticed that I stated that this situation is a direct result of massive neglect. The overall picture that this paints is of a military that had its basic needs cut back on. Oh, by the way, when was the last time the Finnish �rmy deployed under UN mandate? when was the last time the Finnish Army deployed at all? Its easy to have a fully equipped military when it is more than likely about 1/10th the size of any Military belonging to a world player.
Almost forgot, I am talking specifically about the U.S. Military and that is based on 32 years of in uniform and out of uniform service.

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

Originally posted by Jimcrispi

when was the last time the Finnish �rmy deployed under UN mandate?

They are still in Kosovo keeping peace..
(And have been in Cyprus, Sinai, Golan, Lebanon, Bosnia and others..)



Do some research before you start talking BS.

Finnish Army is about number one on these UN peace keeping missions.
(Has taken part in more than any others..)



Btw,

Our defense force still has to issue these to 500 000 people..
(NBC gear.. and it does..)

That is not a 'little'..



[Edited on 13-12-2003 by FULCRUM]

Fulcrum That was a question on deployment not a statement. 500,000? hmmm, is that during the reindeer harvest season? LOL (just a joke) Ohh, Almost forgot!! Its not 500,00 its 430,000 including your active and inactive reserves, 32,000 are active duty of which only 8,500 are professional soldiers, and your yearly defence budget is about 1.3 Billion dollars US, which equals to about 2% of your annual budget, so lets be careful with the BS statements. This information is acvailable on the Janes site, Global Intel Net, and various other sites. And please let me know what you mean by being number one in UN deployments, are you saying as far as numbers or commitments?
[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Need em cause they knew that Iraqis didnt have WMDs.

Simple as that.

Damn, that is simple.



P.S. Has anyone else noticed that Fulcrum pukes a lot?

[Edited on 12-13-2003 by 10DeadInside10]

10 dead Yep, noticed that LOL

Man I keep forgetting everything lately!!! Here is a link to one of the better sites for that information I gave. Its also current.

www.globaldefence.net...://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/archive/monate/03-03-mil.htm

This gets you to the site, look on the left side for Europa and then click on Finnland.

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

If you add 70 T-55Ms, 160 T-72s and 124 Leopard 2A4s how do you get 130 MBTs?
(I get 354.. at least..)



You 'source' is quite incomplete..



Link1!
Link2!



(i have scores of up to date pages, but those are all in finnish only..)

I was talking about your high figure of 500,000. the site is not incomplete and it is current. As opposed to any thing your showing, I really dont care how many outdated ex soviet tanks you have. I was talking srtictly about your 500,00 man army. Fulcrum you need to look at the last post and read the instructions. I see that when faced with facts you try and turn it in your favor, do we have a problem with being wrong?

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by Jimcrispi]

I had a face to face talk with a tank platoon commander who just rotated out of Iraq, and he was telling me about how much radiation was inside their tanks from DUI munitions. Every day they tossed away their suits and kept away from their tanks as much as possible. He was worried about his lungs, but kept on re-inforcing the fact that every generation has to sacrifice blood for the good of the world. We talked about alot more, but lots got forgotten with the beer.

Dexy Some of the conversations I have had with some of the wounded in Landstuhl have said the same thing. The problem with the Chem suits is the same as it always has been, they just dont hold up every day wear and tear. The troops are/were wearing them out, this is a problem that has been around for awhile and the logistical people are well aware of this. Its just one example of the utter lack of good sound logistical planning that went into this campaign. If they cant get basic protection what else are they missing?

uhhh, I'd go with any iota of compassion for human life, friend or foe...

About Military forces, isnt even close to the truht..

All forces have little and big secret to spare..

Kinds of secrets that even the congress or the president dont know about..



Kinda secrets and facts that you learn only if you are THERE.



But what comes to NBC gear of the troops that invaded Iraq, they really didnt need that for anything else that for couples of PR photo shoots in Kuwait, and they knew it from the very start..

Hence the incomplete NBC gear.

Yup Fulcrum, we all have secrets and frankly im glad we do, otherwise there would be no ATS.

[Edited on 13-12-2003 by dexxy]