Bush's address to the Nation..Your thoughts

okay, bush is sending over 20,000+ troops, now let's see if the dems in congress are crazy enough to deny the funds necessary to support these extra troops....and if the pentagon values their new jets and such more than the lives of those troops...

will the money be there when these troops need new guns, armored vehicles, and the like.....or will the families of these troops be sitting on the white house and capitol lawns with signs like..."My Son is in IRaq, and he doesn't have bullets for his Gun...."
as a parent of a member of this surge, my inquiring mind really wants to know!!!

and, I am burning the screens to screen print a nice assortment of signs today, just in case!!

oh, and ya, it sounds like the dems had it right, he's esculating the war. once we start meddling with the support Iran and Syria has going into the place, it's not gonna take long for them to be dragged in, and that's only if Isreal doesn't hit Iran first.
as far as us being there to protect freedom, or american interests. I just can't seem to get myself to believe that one anymore. we are hearing about threats to our freedom everyday, but they aren't coming from the terrorists, but rather from our own government. and american interests, it seems, have been harmed more than anything from the Iraq was so far.
our army is at the breaking point.
our neighbors around the world think we're nuts or worse.
our economic policies are sending the world economy to the brink of collaspe.....
ya, all for our best interest.
someone would have to explain that one to me....cause I just don't see it.
probably all we would have had to do at the beginning of this would have been to stop being so greedy, given the average people in these countries a brighter future, a share in the profits, and hey, they would have been happy!



[edit on 11-1-2007 by dawnstar]

[edit on 11-1-2007 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Correct I am A kiwi.
But I live in Australia.

So you're from New Zealand. Not from the US OR Australia.

As WE, I refer to the west.
being this war is the west vs the east.

No it isn't.

We didnt pull out either, we were smart enough to ignore your stupid president and his war.

Bullcrap.

Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); The Netherlands (Mar. 2005); Hungary (Mar. 2005); Singapore (Mar. 2005); Norway (Oct. 2005); Ukraine (Dec. 2005); Japan (July 17, 2006); Italy (Nov. 2006)

www.globalsecurity.org...

Emphasis added.

hell we dont even let the aircraft carriers dock in our shores let alone join you on illegial escapades around the globe.

So you're not part of "we". That's OK... if and when terrorists decide that New Zealand looks like a nice place to set up shop, we'll remember about the aircraft carriers.

From NZ, but live in Australia.
Does it matter Ive lived here most of my life and call Australia home?

And NZ's contribution was AGRICULTURE Experts to ASSIST in the expansion of agriculture.

And again Helen Clarke REFUSES to have american nuclear submarines near the NZ coastline. NZ doesnt need to kiss a$$ like australia.

We wernt dumb enough to contribute soliders and forces to the illlegial adventure.

Well, just let me start by saying.......
Speaking is NOT his Strong Suit!
I thought the speech itself was more than lacking in commitment
and planning.was plastic and staged...
I expected too much I guess!

I found myself talking out loud to the TV set!

I didn't know Baghdad has a population of more than 7 MILLION
They always show that same street on the news and made it look
much smaller.
I also would like to know how the rules of engagement have changed..
How do you know, who is a terrorist and who is an Iraqi citizen
just trying to stay alive??
You kick in the door, shoot at will , and ask later??
I also do not think the SURGE, will change the politics and help maintain
a democratic government there....
Do they even really have a democratic government??
The police seem to carry the law out according to their religious affiliation

There is No Win in the affair........
How do you convince a populace that is uneducated as well as
controlled by a religious faction, that Democracy is their best choice....
when they are busy fighting for power when we leave

Power & Control are running this war.....
Make no mistake. At the price of Our Children's blood!

Bush is just trying to save face and show our strength
with an enemy that is willing to kill themselves to show otherwise!

20,000 more US troops to Iraq?

I just heard on the news today that 20 thousand more troops r now being sent to Iraq by the US to so call resolve the promblems there.

What the hell's going on? That won't solve anything just make it worst. The whole reason theres massive problems there is that many see it as a US takeover of the country.

Iraq is now a US stronghold and this latest news could be the setting up of something really bad.

Is America going to use Iraq as a stepping stone to invade other countrys now? Will there be another war soon?

In contrast England is withdrawing troop and plans to completely pull out soon. So if there is another war coming we here in England hopefully won't be in it.

Pull them out. Period.

We lost this battle five minutes after boots touched ground.

It's over.

At this point, every next soldier that dies in Iraq will be a sacrifice to protect our own damn egos.

It's over. Get'em out.

Why can't we just split up Iraq into separate "states" or countries to satisfy the Sunnis and Sheites and get the hell out of there? Where has that discussion gone?

I'm surprised so many missed this.......

We will expand intelligence sharing — and deploy Patriot air defense systems to reassure our friends and allies.

Why would patriot air defenses be placed in Iraq?

Patriot systems will not stop car bombs or suicide bombers

Patriot systems are not for attacking terrorist strongholds........

Patriot systems are only for defense from missles.......who has missles?.....Iran........

I mentioned a while ago on some 'long-lost thread' that the entire idea of attacking Iraq was to isolate Iran........

Iran is currently surrounded......US on it's east, west and south borders...with russia (turkmenistan) to the north

I think that there is much more going on than any of the worlds leaders have let on........

Originally posted by mecheng
Why can't we just split up Iraq into separate "states" or countries to satisfy the Sunnis and Sheites and get the hell out of there? Where has that discussion gone?

Because, that would be a logical, reality based solution to the insane, impossible to manage hamster wheel we currently find ourselves on.

It also probably doens't serve the long term, geo-political goals for this war, creating a secular progressive midde east state - instead of doubling up and creating a mini turkey, a mini Iran, and a mini, pre-war Iraq.

Originally posted by ferretman2
I'm surprised so many missed this.......

We will expand intelligence sharing — and deploy Patriot air defense systems to reassure our friends and allies.

Why would patriot air defenses be placed in Iraq?

Patriot systems will not stop car bombs or suicide bombers

Patriot systems are not for attacking terrorist strongholds........

Patriot systems are only for defense from missles.......who has missles?.....Iran........

Who else gets all the freebies and is our ally in the ME? Its either Egypt or Israel. Free money everyone!

Edit to add: Maybe Jordan too

[edit on 11-1-2007 by ThePieMaN]

Originally posted by mecheng
Why can't we just split up Iraq into separate "states" or countries to satisfy the Sunnis and Sheites and get the hell out of there? Where has that discussion gone?

My understanding is that the majority of Iraqis do not support this solution.

I've never been in favor of the war. It seemed from the beginning that it was a strategic cluster fudge. I've also never been a supporter of Bush & Co. and could never understand how he was elected once --- let alone twice.

That said, what bothered me most last night was the fact that here he was, hat in hand, saying mistakes had been made and the previous strategy was not working (ya think??). When did he come to this startling revelation? Yesterday? For almost three years now Mr. Bush has been appearing on television telling us all in the most arrogant and almost flippant manner that he knows what he's doing. Rumsfeld as well. They always seemed to speak with this annoyed air of superiority. Anyone that disagreed was an idiot. A year ago a half-dozen generals came forward to reject the prevailing Iraq policy publicly. It was unprecedented. The generals were immediately villified.

So here we are now and Mr. Bush is saying that THIS time he's got it right. Seriously? We have created a situation in Iraq that is spiraling out-of-control. But one thing GWB said is frighteningly true: if the US 'loses' the war in Iraq the consequences will be far reaching, longterm and of the utmost seriousness. It might have been a good idea to consider that before we punched the button that launched that first cruise missle.

JIMC5499 started a thread yesterday with a link to a very good article outlining the challenges and potential strategy for the Iraq situation. The article is pretty long but well worth the read in my opinion:

Iraq Strategy

Unfortunately, we have gotten ourselves into a situation where either staying or leaving carries consequences of immense and sobering proportion. It never should have happened.

Victory will not look like the ones our fathers and grandfathers achieved. There will be no surrender ceremony on the deck of a battleship.

I especially loved that part. Wasn’t that what he unilaterally claimed on May 3rd 2003? Of course this really isn’t his war either, he just started it. His war was Vietnam, the one he was AWOL from. He has very little support, this plan has no chance, and he is a bigger liability now than ever before. How do we officially register our dissatisfaction? He lied us into this war why doesn’t he just lie us out of it? Or is that what he tried to do last night.




[edit on 11-1-2007 by polanksi]

he is just going to make sure that who ever wins in 2008 stays there and has no way out of iraq, that is all his job is left, except for lining his pockets.

I am not certain about most of you, but I am only in my early 20's. My generation needs to secure its source of oil. Older generations do not have the same fretting ideas as we do. Their retirement unlike ours, is bound in about a decade and past wars such as Iran-Iraq, Gulf War and many other campaigns in and out of third world africa, vietnam and elsewhere have secured oil for their retirement.

I am not going to allow my children and grandchildren live in a world where they are forced to fight wars like WWII in order to secure oil. We do not owe it to ourselves to have fought and bleed simply to see Old Europe powers take control of Iraq. We must let the world know that we are not the "paper tiger" Mao said we are. People get suspicous and then they get ideas.

I was more interested in watching Fox News afterwards and watching their childish antics. Their "So what's their strategy" clock (referring to the Democrats) was childish as usual. And then Rudy Giuliani as usual parrots Bush.
Hey Rudy, what's your strategy? Oh I forgot, it's the same as Bush's always.
Surely an intelligent man like Rudy could offer something extra other than blind loyalty all the time. Man this is getting old!!!

Peace

[edit on 11-1-2007 by Dr Love]

I'm starting to think this is just a public relations ploy by the Bush administration to satisfy Washington's endless demands for a change of course in Iraq. Obviously Bush knows 20,000 troops isn't going to be enough to quell sectarian violence in Iraq. In fact, without imposing martial law there is no way to stop that sort of warfare. As long as the militant groups have motivation and resources, they are going to be engaging in violent acts against each other. After this "surge of troops" fails to accomplish anything, Bush will try become the hero of the people when he calls the troops home in November. By that time, the focus will have shifted to Syria or Iran. Maybe both. The Iraq war is over in the sense of an America vs. Saddam and crew. The conflict is no longer about the nation of Iraq at all. It is a broader religious war to which we can probably provide no answer.
There really is no way to end this conflict permanently. The extremism is so widespread in the middle east that I can't really believe in good conscience that it is going to end. A likely scenario is that once American troops leave, the Iraqi government will be over thrown by Shia extremists and a widespread cleansing of Sunnis/Baths will begin. Iraq is about 89% Shia anyway, so the majority will rule. America will have no place in this conflict. This fight between Sunnis and Shias has been going on for over a millenium, and it's roots trace back to the start of Islam. America's best bet is to mend our diplomatic relations with Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the Gulf States so that when a new threat to United States national security arises we will have some sort of political leverage in the region.

This next part is all personal opinion, so dont go bashing me for it if you dont believe in it. I feel everyone has their right to an opinion. Make your own if you wish but dont hate me for mine
My personal beliefs are that the middle east conflict will eventually result in a large scale war between Zionism and extremist Islam. I am of the Christian faith, and believe every last word of the Bible. According to the writings in Revelations, Daniel, and Isaiah, this will be the precursor to the return of Christ. You will know the anti-christ is here when someone appears on the world stage who mediates peace between the Muslims and Zionists. If you look at the current state of affairs in the world, it really is startling how the Bible predicts all of this stuff.....within the next decade we will see the Islamic nations of the middle east (Egypt and Saudi Arabia included after the extremists prevail there) unite and take on the task of fighting Israel. Whether the United States and the EU will or should be involved is another story.....

Mandrake, I suppose it never occurred to you that while we're chatting here so enjoyably, a decision is being made by the President and the Joint Chiefs in the war room at the Pentagon. And when they realize there is no possibility of recalling the wing, there will be only one course of action open: total committment.

Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenzo once said about war?

He said war was to important to be left to the Generals. When he said that, fifty years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

www.visual-memory.co.uk...

Originally posted by Soitenly
I am not certain about most of you, but I am only in my early 20's. My generation needs to secure its source of oil. Older generations do not have the same fretting ideas as we do. Their retirement unlike ours, is bound in about a decade and past wars such as Iran-Iraq, Gulf War and many other campaigns in and out of third world africa, vietnam and elsewhere have secured oil for their retirement.

I am not going to allow my children and grandchildren live in a world where they are forced to fight wars like WWII in order to secure oil. We do not owe it to ourselves to have fought and bleed simply to see Old Europe powers take control of Iraq. We must let the world know that we are not the "paper tiger" Mao said we are. People get suspicous and then they get ideas.

Your generation needs to get rid of reliance on oil and find another cleaner, non-fossil fueled source of energy.

As for Old Europe powers taking control of Iraq: what are you talking about? Can you please clarify?

Ditto forestlady. All you 20 somethings out there oil is running out you can't relie on it. Get over it and find alternative sources of energy or read James Kunstler's book 'The Long Emergency'

America has no right to determine how the rest of the world allocates their resources. If we would take a fraction of the money spent on war we would eliminate most of the world's problems. You might also consider that you may have to move(overseas) to get a job.