Well I don't think Mary appears to anyone anywhere, I guess it's just a theological difference between Catholics and Protestants.

I have no idea if this story can be true or not, but I don't understand why you have to assume that Mary wouldn't say something about how the world is run. That is very important and significant to everyone. It appears to me that you put a label "political" on a phrase or statement and then assume it must be totally removed from "religion". Why does everything have labels.

I am sure if there is a god he would have ALOT to say about "politics", "politicains" and how we run the societies we live in. Even the sick and twisted madman GW Bush claims God talks to him and advises him on his policies, and it seems to get him votes. I don't understand why you assume religin and politics must be totally removed, when religion must surely cover ever aspect of human interaction.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well I don't think Mary appears to anyone anywhere, I guess it's just a theological difference between Catholics and Protestants.

You believe the dead are all 'sleeping', right? We believe that they are not. I don't want to get in a scripture spitting contest, but just so you can see where we come from - when Christ was crucified he told the repentant thief (tradition calls him St. Dismas) that 'today you will be with me in paradise'. He can't be in paradise with Christ that day.. if he's sleeping until the end of the world. ... and then there is Revelation with the Martyrs and Saints all restless and being told to wait a while longer until the rest of their number are martyred....

I'm sure you can post quotes about the dead being all asleep in Christ. I could post just as many saying they aren't. We'd be here all day and get nowhere.

Anyways ... I firmly believe that anyone who has died can appear to anyone, anywhere, if God allows it. Moses appeared to Christ along with James, Peter and John on the mountain when Christ transfigured. I'm sure God can allow Mary to appear as well.

Originally posted by golddragnet
I don't understand why you have to assume that Mary wouldn't say something about how the world is run.

In past 'approved' apparitions, she has. However, it is always with the human soul foremost in the message ... such as 'russia will spread errors (communism) so pray for the souls of the russians. She makes the souls the most important thing - not the politics.

i'm saying that this runs counter to what the M.O. has been in the past.

edited for spelling

[edit on 1/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

The only one world government discussed in the bible is the one set up by Jesus after his return in Revelation. If you remember, in the end times, all nations turn against Israel, which means that the nations are still seperate at the end before Jesus appears to unify the world in a new kingdom.

So, according to Christian mythology, Mary is warning against something that wont come to pass.

Way to go Mary!

Could somebody, anybody, point me to any passage in the Christian bible that says to worship Mary like the Catholic church has done? I can't find any.
Down with the baylonian dagon preisthood!

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
point me to any passage in the Christian bible that says to worship Mary like the Catholic church has done?

point me to any passage in the Catholic Catechism that says Catholics are to worship Mary, or anyone else, other than God.

You can't. It specifically states that worship belongs to God alone. And Catholics do not worship Mary. Wrong.

Your statement that the Catholic church worships Mary is false. Stop reading Jack Chick tracts. They aren't accurate and they are deadly wrong.



[edit on 1/11/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Could somebody, anybody, point me to any passage in the Christian bible that says to worship Mary like the Catholic church has done? I can't find any.
Down with the baylonian dagon preisthood!

I say down with your ignorance and lack of knowledge on the subject.
Ugh! This again. I can only assume you are "Christian" and "non-Catholic".
Some kind of baptist or protestant denomination right?
You need to get your info straight, okay? This is coming from a Catholic here and this my friend is what we believe:

Worship is for God alone. So we both agree on this. Catholics venerate Mary. Jesus said: "Honor thy mother and father: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death, (Mt. 15:5)." Just as Jesus honors His mother, so do we, for on the cross Jesus gave His mother to all mankind when he said to St. John: …Behold thy mother! (Jn. 19:27)

Mary is NOT a Goddess. She has no power or authority of her own. Mary cannot save your soul, you can only be saved through Jesus Christ. Mary's only mission is to lead us to Christ. No one knows or loves her son more than Mary. We ask Mary to pray for us (mediate) or anyone else in need in the same manner we ask a friend to pray (mediate) for us. Ever asked a friend to say a prayer for you? Or do you think that's evil? We believe that Mary continues to intercede for us to her son. It is for this reason we ask Mary, in faith, for her prayers. Our prayers to Mary are an addition to our prayers to God--not a replacement.

Yes, there is one mediator between God and man--Jesus Christ, but does not praying for each other honor Christ? Who would know a son better than a mother? Why should we not ask Mary to pray for us? For those who think that no one is in heaven and and that our prayers to Mary are meaningless; then why did Jesus say on the cross to the poor thief, "This day you will be with me in Paradise!" (Lk. 23:43) Do you think Jesus would take a thief to Paradise and leave His beloved mother behind?

If and when you meet Jesus one day, I'm sure you'll get to meet His Mom. He loves her and she's with Him now. I seriously doubt He'll condemn you to Hell for talking to her and asking her to put in a good word for you. In fact, I bet you this makes Him happy.

Flyer, I'm all over the place when it comes to Mary apparitions. I believe in the ones that were deemed real by the Church, but anything else I'm a little skeptical about. Although I will say that I attended a church in Emmittsburg, Maryland, over ten years back where some woman believed she was being visited by the Blessed Mother. The Mass I attended was incredibly moving. All these sick people, blind people, handicapped people surrounding me looking for miracles. At the end of the rosary recitation I know I felt the Blessed Mother very strongly in that Church. It was overwhelmingly so. Yet, the Catholic Church I heard is now saying that that woman and her apparitions are not legit (my Franciscan monk friend told me this - he told me not to follow it). So, sometimes I don't know what to believe.....or who to believe. How about that woman up in New York who predicted the "Ball of Redemption" coming? That whole thing when I first read it terrified me. I don't know what to believe anymore. And in a way it's kinda scary. One of the girls from Garabandal still alludes to the fact that the Warning and Chastisement are to occur in her lifetime and she's a little bit older than me............seems like although there are similarities between the apparitions, sometimes the message is totally different. What are we dealing with here? Lying fervant Catholics or Satan pulling the wool over believers eyes? Makes you wonder......what is one to make of this?

[edit on 11-1-2007 by rocknroll]

FF, i hardly doubt the Virgin Mary is going to get involved in politics either.

I can see her shedding tears but no politics. She certainly wouldnt chose a side.

why is it that these figures appear and give messages to people who are unable to act on these messages? If Mary wanted to make an impact, she would appear to the one man who would be most likely to follow thru with her wishes. God fearing GWB. Even the Pope would be unable to convince Bush that he met with Mary but a face to face between the two, well, I would imagine ole Bushie would be on TV within 24 hours, announcing his new plans, new goals, new tactics etc and no, he wouldn't be dumb enough to say The Virgin appeared to me in a dream and said.....


I guess these visions follow along with everyone who believes in reincarnation thinking they were once Joan of Arc, Gallileo or some other major historical figure. I'd love to meet the guy who says "Hi, I was joe the village idiot in my last life."

Personally I tend to have a theory that it is the Aliens who pull off the Mary apparitions.
I mean better to masquerade as a religious icon than scare the bejesus out of the human witnesses to spectacles such as this.

I'd believe it's the aliens before I'd believe it's Mary.
Mary is not the mother of god either (if there is a god) she is the mother of Jesus. But that is up to you, if you believe Jesus was god.
To me Jesus was probably just a man with good moralistic ideals with a rebel streak.
Which is to be admired and emulated.

Hi Crakeur,
I was an arthritic, impoverished, farmer's wife in my last life, and in the life before that, sadly to say, I was a woman of the night if you know what I mean. Not everyone who recalls their previous lives were rich, famous or smart.
At least this time, I've moved up a few notches in the class system.

As for Mary, I would take any "miracles" such as a bleeding or crying statue more seriously than I do this.

Crakeur, the virgin does not appear where the devil tends to be.

More likely that she would appear to me at the beach here in Hyannis atop a tree than to president Bush.

Originally posted by dgtempe
FF, i hardly doubt the Virgin Mary is going to get involved in politics either.

I can see her shedding tears but no politics. She certainly wouldnt chose a side.

I wonder at this also, dg, what God, Jesus and Mary has to do with the wold politics or getting involve in word's politics I imagine that when it comes to divinities they are there to save souls no to become politicians and run for office or chose whose candidates are the best.

After all these divine beings are beyond earthy common men doings.

They just should stay put and made sure that when wars kills so many people the souls of the wrongly killed will be safe.

Originally posted by worldwatcher I was a woman of the night if you know what I mean.

do you get to keep what you have learned from your past lives?


was the lady of the night making up for lost time in the previous life?

Originally posted by Crakeur

do you get to keep what you have learned from your past lives?

I did, my previous life before this one I was a child of 6 that was in a boat and the older man next to me throw me in the water where I drawned.

When I was a child in this one my memory was so vivid that I thought that somebody will kill me in the water so until this day I never learned to swim.

That was not a fair question Crakeur we learn from past lives experiences you know.



[edit on 11-1-2007 by marg6043]

Well I guess for the faithful the vision of divinities just happens any where and every where

I am glad that I got plenty of visions but divinities are not one of them.

I cannot imagine somebody no able to flush their toilet thinking that the virgin Mary just materialized on the toilet bowl.