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Masonic Assistance

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posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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I've often heard stories about Masons assisting other Masons, whether for nefarious means, job hiring, or professional/skilled assistance.

Nefarious means would be helping to commit or cover-up some sort of crime.

Job hiring as in hiring a known Mason over a non-Mason who might be better qualified.

Lastly, what may be more common, professional or skilled assistance. For example, if I were a plumber, I might do some work for a fellow Mason for little or no fee, and said Mason might be an electrician who returns the favor.

I was wondering if any Masons have benefitted from such assistance?

I have an uncle who is a 32nd Degree Mason who mentioned he's helped some fellow Masons via his profession/skill, but when asked for a favor in return, the original recipient balked at helping him out, or made some excuse why they could not help them through their trade or profession.

Anyone experience non-reciprocity in their assistance?




posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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How are you defining masonic assistance? For example if my father is a mason and assists me or I assist him is this happening because he is a mason or because he is my father? Do we count people who we didn't know were masons at the time but subsequently it turns out they are members?

Also, IYO, as a freemason if I help a non-member am I doing this as a freemason or as a member of the general public?

I guess what I'm asking is... when does a freemason act particularly as a freemason, and when does he act in some other capacity?

Incidentally, any freemason that breaks the law in assisting someone (brother or not) is breaking their obligation. So that sort of activity would be done at the risk of expulsion.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
How are you defining masonic assistance?


(Ahem) See above....

The question was regarding Masons assisting (known) fellow Masons. I'm sure Masons help non-Masons in a variety of ways, but that is not the topic nor the question.

Do you have an answer or insight, or do you just want to argue?



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi

Originally posted by Trinityman
How are you defining masonic assistance?


(Ahem) See above...

The question was regarding Masons assisting (known) fellow Masons. I'm sure Masons help non-Masons in a variety of ways, but that is not the topic nor the question.


Please reread my post. You can see from the example I gave that masons can help other masons, but not necessarily because they are masons.

It might be helpful if you outlined where you are going with this, as context might help.


Do you have an answer or insight, or do you just want to argue?

Don't be obtuse. If you want accurate answers to questions then you need to make yourself clear.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 04:15 PM
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I'm sorry, if you don't think my question is straighforward, then you are the one being obtuse.

I gave general examples to spare a lengthy listing of every conceivable instance of Mason to Mason assistance (which I could not list every instance). If that does not give you an idea, then I don't know what will.

I gave an example of my uncle's experience from the best of my memory from what he relayed to me. I can't recall exactly what professional favor was asked of him, and what he asked in return.

Lastly, I asked a pretty specific question.

I'm not trying to start or perpetuate a fight. I can't think of any way to re-write the post and still be brief.

If you are unable to share your experiences, maybe someone else can?..



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 05:49 AM
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I've done plenty of things for my Masonic friends that I would normally charge clients for (Real Estate wise) but then again I do lots of things for my NON masonic friends that I would normally charge clients for.

So really its not because they are Masons but more because they are my friends and I dont mind doing things for my mates =)



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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I believe masons are obligated to help one another. However, providing a freebie service to get a freebie service does not constitute actual help or need.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by CAPT PROTON
I believe masons are obligated to help one another. However, providing a freebie service to get a freebie service does not constitute actual help or need.


While you are encouraged to help one another, its basically about helping out people who are less fortunate than you. For example a fellow brother is going through financial troubles so you all get together and do what you can to help him like donating some toys for his kids at christmas time or chipping in for a turkey dinner for him and his family.

You are told when you join that Freemasons isnt the kind of club that will provide for you if you lose your job etc. which is true - the lodge wont provide the assistance, the fellow brothers will.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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Well, since a mason cannot REQUIRE another mason to do favors for him, then they are nothing more than "gifts." There's no method for lodging complaint because "some brother failed to do me a favor." It is up to every mason, as it is up to every man, to decide how he will treat someone.

I know a cop who takes great pride in having never let a fellow mason get out of a ticket. And some have asked. And the cop tells them, as a mason, you know that I support the laws of this nation . . . here's your ticket.

Personally, In the last to jobs I got, there were guys a thought might be masons on the board of directors. In both cases, I didn't wear any masonic jewelry until after I was hired. The second time, I knew one guy was a mason, but I was never sure until after I made myself known, after I was hired.

I didn't make myself known for two reasons. First I wanted to be fair, and second, in case there was an ANTIMASON on the board of directors, I still wanted the job.

.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I'm sorry, if you don't think my question is straighforward, then you are the one being obtuse.

I gave general examples to spare a lengthy listing of every conceivable instance of Mason to Mason assistance (which I could not list every instance). If that does not give you an idea, then I don't know what will.

I gave an example of my uncle's experience from the best of my memory from what he relayed to me. I can't recall exactly what professional favor was asked of him, and what he asked in return.

Lastly, I asked a pretty specific question.

I'm not trying to start or perpetuate a fight. I can't think of any way to re-write the post and still be brief.

If you are unable to share your experiences, maybe someone else can?..


Zhenyghi, you should know, it's their habit to make it difficult for you.
It's indeed a simple question and it's a well known fact that they help eachother out.
But it's more like a judge helping out a fraudulent politician. Or a policeman helping out his masonic friend with his parking tickets.

Don't expect an honest answer from a mason.

Good try though



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by buddhaLight


Zhenyghi, you should know, it's their habit to make it difficult for you.
It's indeed a simple question and it's a well known fact that they help eachother out.
But it's more like a judge helping out a fraudulent politician. Or a policeman helping out his masonic friend with his parking tickets.

Don't expect an honest answer from a mason.

Good try though


I answered from my experience, honestly.



Don't expect a fair break from an antimason.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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I think trinityman's point is valid.

If a mason helps out a non-mason, was that masonic assistance?

If they get a 'black mark' for helping a fellow mason, do they get a positive mark for helping a non-mason?

IF a mason is a brick worker, and he lays brick for a fellow mason who is an electrician, and then that guy does free electrical work in return, is that 'assistance'? Is it free, or is it helping people, or is it paying by doing work?


I think what you are really askign is 'have any of hte masons on this board ever helped out a mason, even through they knew it was wrong."

Why would someone, who does stuff that is wrong or evil, even respond at all???



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Nygdan

You've hit the nail on the head. The OP won't elaborate on his request or the purpose behind it, but it seems to me to be classic stalking-horse stuff - akin to "when did you stop beating your wife?".

Anyone who has studied freemasonry for any length of time, freemason or not, will know that masons are OBLIGED to put the law of the land first before any favors they might want to consider for other brothers.

Despite the OPs obfuscation, my point is still valid - what constitutes masonic assistance as opposed to any other form of assistance?


Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I didn't make myself known for two reasons. First I wanted to be fair, and second, in case there was an ANTIMASON on the board of directors, I still wanted the job.


This is a very important point. There are many people who are willfully prejudiced AGAINST freemasons, and will do all that they can to make life difficult for us. I agree with you and would never give an indication to a prospective employer that I am a freemason for exactly the reasons you outlined. I would want to get the job on my own merits and not through someone else's positive or negative predisposition.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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There you have one wrong point.

Most people are not antimasonic when they start learning about it.
That's a fact!!! look around at ATS. Newbies are mostly following the opinions of masons with there promisses of goodness.

I wasn't against freemasonry, because at first I was following what the masons where telling. And that seemed to be all very nice. Charity, brotherhood, men of good morals and of good repute,...

One becomes suspicious about the organisation after a good research.

Go into history, go into facts,...

Find the the truth by yourselves,.. that's all I ask. (from the newbies)



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 09:24 AM
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Ezekiel, CAPT PROTON, Dr_Strangecraft, and buddhaLight: Thanks for your responses. You seem to understand what I'm asking. For those who don't, let me reword and clarify...

First Scenario: in retrospect, I suppose it was silly to point this out. Really, who would actually admit that they've helped a fellow Brother by covering-up some sort of serious crime? On to the others...

Yes, giving free service as I spelled out does count as assistance in my book. Anything done for free is better than full price. I'm not against it, mind you, in fact I've tried to get my KC council to do something like that. Lawyers still need doctors, plumbers, electricians and carpenters. My council has a variety of men with skilled trades and educated, professional men. The men of the council didn't seem to care either way.

The scenario I gave was a plumber (a Mason) doing free work for an electrician (a Mason), in return for the electrician doing free work for the plumber. Again, that sounds like assistance (Masonic, KC, or not); free is better than paying. I was wondering if anyone has made arrangements like this with fellow Masons, and no, I'm not against it, I'm for it!!

In another example, my uncle, a 32nd Degree Mason had a fellow Mason (actually a few, according to him) ask for favor-X, to which he helped them out. Afterwards, the Masons told him (paraphrasing), "Hey, if you ever need favor-Y, let me know!". Well, whether soon or sometime later, my uncle goes back to these people and asks for the favor-Y offered, but they balk or say they can't for one reason or another. Again, to all Masons, has this happened to you?

As for jobs and promotions, I've read and heard that getting jobs or promotions may be harder in certain professions where there are many Freemasons - police, fire dept., military, etc., and some people have made allegations that they were passed over or not hired because they are not Masons. I agree that it might not be smart to advertise to everyone (including superiors) that you are a Mason because of anti-Masonic sentiment. I would imaging that if one's superior, or the person conducting the interview had a Masons ring, or tie, or lapel-pin, you might identify yourself at that time as a fellow Mason (or the two of you could be from the same lodge). In this situation, the questions are:

1) Do you feel you've benefitted from a promotion or job offer based at least in part on your Masonic affiliation?

2) Have you ever hired/promoted someone who was either a known Mason or made themselves known as a Mason over someone who may have been more experienced or better-qualified than the Mason applying for the same job?

I hope this will be clear to all...



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

You've hit the nail on the head. The OP won't elaborate on his request or the purpose behind it, but it seems to me to be classic stalking-horse stuff - akin to "when did you stop beating your wife?".



It's been some time since I took Logic in college, but I'm sorry, I did not ask and commit the fallacy of a Complex Question.

Nice try, though!



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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Wow this is a silly post to fight about isn't it.

As a Freemason I would help out a brother if it was legal and the right thing to do just as I would help out my non Mason friends.

This is no difference as my Born Again Christian friend who goes way out of his way to help out his church buddies as I like to call them.

This is no different than me helping out ANY of my friends of ANY religion, background or organization.

Everyone helps out their friends and hook them up above non friends that is why they are called friends.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi

The scenario I gave was a plumber (a Mason) doing free work for an electrician (a Mason), in return for the electrician doing free work for the plumber. Again, that sounds like assistance (Masonic, KC, or not); free is better than paying. I was wondering if anyone has made arrangements like this with fellow Masons, and no, I'm not against it, I'm for it!!


Technically, it isn't free if one offers one's services in exchange for services from another. The only difference is that the electrician is paying for the plumber's service with his own services instead of money. This actually happens a lot between different companies who need each other's services, regardless if any belong to any fraternities.


In another example, my uncle, a 32nd Degree Mason had a fellow Mason (actually a few, according to him) ask for favor-X, to which he helped them out. Afterwards, the Masons told him (paraphrasing), "Hey, if you ever need favor-Y, let me know!". Well, whether soon or sometime later, my uncle goes back to these people and asks for the favor-Y offered, but they balk or say they can't for one reason or another. Again, to all Masons, has this happened to you?


Yes, but not with a fellow Mason. It was actually my brother-in-law.




1) Do you feel you've benefitted from a promotion or job offer based at least in part on your Masonic affiliation?


I'm the only Mason at my office.


2) Have you ever hired/promoted someone who was either a known Mason or made themselves known as a Mason over someone who may have been more experienced or better-qualified than the Mason applying for the same job?


No. I don't think I know any Masons who would do that, since it would basically be screwing themselves. After all, the better qualified person would probably do a better job, be more efficient, and make the company more money.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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I agree with masonic light; anyone, mason or no, who relies on their special status to get your confidence is automatically not worth that trust.

Example: Every time someone advertizes themselves to be a "Christian Businessman," they turn out to be . . . NEITHER!

Just because we are fellow masons doesn't make us "instant buds." The fellow on the board of directors where I work goes to a different lodge (the one in the rich part of town). We only see them at a charity event every thanksgiving. But they invite us to their blood drive . . . .


The one time I saw it used the way I think you mean was when I was a member of a lodge in the DFW area:

Our stated (monthly) meetings were on, say, the second tuesday of the month. We were there every tuesday, and on the off nights, we drank coffee, talked masonry or war stories (most of the members there aging vets). Masons who hadn't achieved MM status would be in the lodge-room, practicing degree work or masonic lore, etc.

This was around the millenium.Two women, and a couple of small children. The older woman was the grandma. They were from Mexico, on vacation in the United States. Her husband had had a stroke or heart attack or something, and was in the hospital about to die. They spoke no English, and were scared to death. They didn't have enough money for the emergency, etc.

The older woman said her husband told her that if she was ever desperate, to find a masonic lodge, and tell them her husband's name, his office, and his home lodge.

A Dallas cop who was a lodge member translated for our lodge. Every lodge in TX has a directory of all lodges worldwide we are in fellowship with. The cop checked the woman's ID's and whatnot. We took up a collection, got them into a hotel, and contacted the dude's home lodge, which wired money, etc., and got them back to their home in Mexico. She later sent a donation to the lodge, which we donated to the Texas Scottish Rite Hospital for Children.

That's the way masons are "Supposed" to behave. I think it got written up in a certain masonic magazine.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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In a fraternal order such as Masonry, there exists a bond of Brotherhood among members. It's called Fraternity, and it is one strong attraction to prospective members. It's not really favoritism, but in certains situations a brother may prefer one of his own over someone that is not.

A fraternal bond exists among members of these orders. When I've travelled to other cities, or stayed for an extended period of time. One of the first things I do is look members of my Fraternal Order or where the nearest Council meets. When you belong to a fraternal order, you join a brotherhood of millions of members, some of who you may encounter in your travels anywhere across the globe. Any of whom are willing and ready to assist you should you need it.

CC



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