The word "postal" was used... empty threat, empty post - no confirmable fact. No grunt. Carefully constructed - plant... a Greer-flunky and another "retro-viral"? Heinz 57 and just as common.

Vic

Yes, true. I still thought it was an interesting post, I would obviously take it with a pinch of salt (perhaps a bucket) and unless there is solid proof there's no way to tell. It's also pretty stupid to give anyone with claims such as these the benefit of the doubt, that could be anybody!

Still it was a well written post, but can he prove it?

Can I prove it? Admittedly, not easily, at least not over the Internet. Anybody can be anybody on the Internet. As I wish to remain anonymous, I cannot post a copy of my DD214 or other documentation showing that I was where I said I was during the time specified. That in itself would not prove anything I stated anyway.

I could answer questions about the area of Hanau, Germany during the mid to late seventies, even Pioneer Kaserne specifically. Were I willing, I could give some details about Cliff's family. Other than to say that his eldest son kicked me in the balls on one occasion, (just for the humorous reasons) I will not do so. Also, Cliff's wife is an excellent cook. Any questions I could answer about Hanau, Pioneer Kaserne, or Cliff, though, would only be circumstantial. Anybody could do research and put a post up about these subjects. There are, of course a few things that only Cliff and I know about, but since the rest of you are not in on it, those items would not prove anything.

This is a murky area of discussion by its very nature.

As to the implied threat of violence to uninvited visitors at my home... in this venue, an explanation should not be necessary, but since the question was raised, I will address it.

Cliff's son was murdered. Murdered. As in dead by the hand of another human being. No suspect was brought to trial and the case is now cold. That tells me that there are those in power who take this stuff very seriously. Almost certainly they are watching this thread carefully. As I am not putting anything out there that is especially damaging, I am probably not worth the effort to "disappear", if Joseph Heller will forgive me.

I once had a trio of FBI agents visit my house because I posted something that was critical of their office. This made me think about posting openly.

Cliff and I are both former Vietnam and cold war era soldiers. The men who trained us both wore round brown hats, but prior to that they wore green hats, and they really knew their stuff. To survive combat arms in Vietnam, and in my case, also Korea, one had to know one's stuff. These men taught us no small measure of vigilance, and paranoia, if one wishes to call it that.

For men such as myself and Cliff Stone, there is no such thing as being too paranoid. The question we both likely struggle with is not whether or not we are too paranoid, but rather whether or not we are paranoid enough. I am using an obviously fictitious name derived from a character in an old Western serial. This would stop uninvited visitors of mild interest.

Quite probably, those in power could find out who I am and pay me a visit, if they so desired, but the question in their minds is whether or not paying me a visit to tell me not to add to Cliff's credibility would be worth a possible gunfight with a trained soldier in a crowded neighborhood. They'd almost certainly lose some men if I saw it coming, and they know that. This post would then become very public.

Those in the business of secrets do not like to come into the light. Hence my implied threat of violence to uninvited visitors.

Now, you can and should take everything I said with a grain of salt. Skepticism is part and parcel of paranormal research. Even I, who knew Cliff personally, do not necessarily swallow everything he says publicly. There are always wheels within wheels and the powers that be operate within all of the wheels. Mulder had it right; trust no one.

Frank Paladin

reply to post by frankpaladin

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Greetings, frankpaladin.. warm welcome to you at ATS.

Speaking as someone personally close to Mr Stone, what is your take on the UFO subject? Where do you stand with regards to the Disclosure Project's testimony as a whole? (for example, suppression of reverse-engineered free energy technology, Clifford's evidence of crash retrievals and different species of ET, Robert Salas's evidence of nuclear facility 'shutdown' by ET, Wernher Von Braun's warning of a faked alien invasion). Is there anything in the Disclosure Project testimony that you are vehemently skeptical of?

What Mr Stone has to say in itself is an incredible thing to believe - he talks about his personal dealings with ETs - what's your take on that? He comes across to me as very sincere and doesn't pretend to have 'all the answers'. It'd be great to hear from you. For those of us here who are listening and learning and trying to fit this puzzle together the best way we can, your input would be invaluable.

Thank you for the welcome.

There are UFOs. Now, just exactly what they are is a matter of some debate and I have not yet made up my mind on that subject. I strongly suspect that each UFO story has a different explanation. Some are explainable, some are not, but those that are not explainable are not necessarily extraterrestrial space craft. I have seen two in my life. Neither of them could be described as anything especially noteworthy... unexplained lights in the sky.

Technology has certainly been suppressed. Did it come from a crashed UFO? Damned if I know. Tesla pioneered some areas of study that were suppressed subsequent to his death. Most likely his particle beam weapon did not come from a UFO. The world's power brokers do indeed suppress technology that would upset the apple cart. That's been going on since before the Romans.

I've read Cliff's book, and quite probably seen some of the information he was compiling back in the early days. I am not familiar with the Disclosure Project. I don't know who Robert Salas is, nor do I know who this "Greer" I'm supposed to be planted by is. I have seen no proof of anything and I am skeptical of everything. Then again, I was suspicious when the most attractive woman I have ever met tried to drag me out on a dance floor and I fought her off bravely. Looking back, that was perhaps not as dumb as it seems, though I will always wonder what might have been (heavy sigh).

I am especially skeptical of any story that involves personal dealings with ETs. Now, as I have previously stated, I have not seen Cliff since June of 1977, so I cannot speak to his current state of mind. He could be telling the truth, he could by lying, or he could be delusional. People change in thirty years and Cliff is not the same person he was then, nor am I, for that matter. I have since been through a divorce, a war, and numerous other character shaping incidents. Cliff has been through the wringer as well.

What he has said publicly is indeed incredible, but he cannot offer proof of it, and since he cannot, his story is suspect. It is even more suspect because he is not an impartial participant. Like Jesse Jackson and his White man done us wrong doctrine, it is not in Cliff's best interest to show that UFOs are all kites and futuristic aircraft. He couldn't get speaking engagements or publish another book if he did that.

I think he is a good man, but good men make mistakes just like the rest of us. Anyone who claims to have all the answers and is not Jesus Himself is certainly a liar. That Cliff hedges his answers a bit on certain subjects is commendable, though some would call that being wishy-washy.

He seems sincere because he is sincere. He is also dedicated and believes much of what he says, if not all of it. That said, his beliefs do not constitute proof of anything.

As to what I might or might not contribute to the discussion... probably not much. I am merely an ornery old man who does photography, blacksmithing, and expects Bad Things to happen in the fairly near future. I have only a passing interest in UFOlogy, and posted here only because I had some information on the subject of discussion.

I think that the best way to inform the public on the subject of UFOs is to continue the FOIA requests as Cliff showed us all how to do. The biggest part of his book is simply documentation he gathered. The truth is out there, and there may be documentation somewhere to prove it. Unfortunately, there are those with a vested interest in keeping it secret, and there is a public that really doesn't want to know the truth if it means little green guys in flying saucers exist.

Truth be told, I myself do not really care if they exist or not. Long as they do not demand I feed 'em, I'm happy.

I doubt that I will post here again as I do not feel I have anything further to add. Keep asking questions, but don't accept all the answers you get. Cliff didn't and neither should you.

That is a very good point. I feel exactly the same way about the global warming bandwagon. Scientists will struggle to get research funding, and will even risk damage to their reputation and livelihoods, if their reports don't 'toe the party line' and tweak the model variables to achieve the desirable (dramatic) results. In a nutshell, if their reports don't somewhat resemble the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow', then.. they're out of a job!

The feeling I get from Cliff is that he's not in this for the money. It sounds like he struggles to make his bills, the 'business' isn't as lucrative as we envision. It's more like he has more of a spiritual mission, a duty.. but he's still unsure exactly what that purpose is. I am surprised at your level of distrust and lack of interest in the UFO subject; if it were me, I'd be on the point of obsession chasing up every nook and cranny had I known Clifford Stone and witnessed some of his documents. I'd know the Disclosure Project testimony like off the back of my hand. I'd be getting in touch with Cliff and having a good catch-up and a chat about some of the amazing things he talks about - like helping an ET escape! Is that the kind of thing you can just brush off and sweep aside, easily dismiss?

I just wanted to say that there are lots of other places around ATS where you should stay and post, it's a really good community here, where you can discuss current events of the day, or you can talk deep-n-dark about the New World Order (!!!), or whichever subject takes your fancy! Stay around, and at least be a lurker. Bookmark us!

Yeah, I think you have Cliff pegged pretty well. He is on a life-long mission of a sort, but money is not his objective. I couldn't say for certain just what his motivation is. He always was one for tilting at windmills and trying to beat the unbeatable foe. He is in good company, though.

In my experience, the most intelligent people among us often have financial difficulties. This is, perhaps, because they alone realize that money is just paper and cheap metals these days. An old teacher I had in junior high school once defined legal tender as something that is valuable because the government says it is value, as opposed to intrinsic value which is valuable in and of itself, i.e.: gold, food, guns and ammunition, livestock, and loved ones.

The corollary to the late John Bie's theory of legal tender is that the government (and those who control government finances) can and does change the value of legal tender just as easily as the wind changes direction. Thus legal tender is only as stable as the government, meaning it is not very stable at all.

Best to make investments in gold, silver, and lead.

Hmmmm... this should be an OT post. Oh well.

reply to post by johnlear

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Thank you John for you kind words. You will always be counted as among my friends. You know more about me then most people.

God Bless

Cliff

reply to post by SwingingMonkey

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My door has never been closed to any one who has come to it. Friend or foe, I have never refused to talk to those who who have shown up at my door step. I really am not that hard to talk to or find.

God Bless

Cliff



[edit on 2-2-2008 by CLIFFORD STONE]

reply to post by frankpaladin

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I think I know who you are. If you are who I think you are tell them about my having to fight to get my family to join me in Germany, saying it was illegal for my family to come to Germany. Tell them about my family arriving in Germany on Friday and my having to leave them on the following Monday on a classified mission. Interesting don't you think for a mail clerk. Remember, you said words to the effect of, " Don't worry Stoney, we will watch out for your family while you are away." I turned to you and said, with tears in my eyes, words to the effect of, " Thank you my friend. You know, I have seen people killed on these missions. You will never know or understand what I do on these missions and maybe that is best. But every time I go out on one of these, I wonder if I will ever see my family again." If you remember this, then you who I think you are."

God Bless

Cliff



[edit on 2-2-2008 by CLIFFORD STONE]

Clifford Stone remains in my grey basket.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by The Scud plague.]

[edit on 14-2-2008 by The Scud plague.]

Hi Mr Stone,

Via this way i'll try to contact you! I was a witness of a UFO myself years back in Belgium in the case of the so called Belgian Triangle. I had the change to have a conversation witch retired Belgian Airforce General-Colonel De Brouwer, who was in charge at that time (89-91). Nowadays i make music. I would like to ask you kindly the permission to use a spoken word sample of you in a new song of mine which still have to be released. We share the same goal, to spread the word and to awake people. Thanks for all your work!
Thanks for replying to me on alphasoundresonator@hotmail.com
grtz
wilfried aka ASR

Hello fellow ats members

First of all I’d like to give great thanks to all people which have posted on this thread giving special tanks to John Lear, Frankpaladin and of course Clifford Stone!
I never thought this thread would receive such a generous response.

I’d like to apologise for my little input into it, I had a many things to deal with this past year and to be honest haven’t checked into this site for quite some time, but I’m back now and appreciate this place more than ever.

I hope I did not offend (Clifford stone) with the title of this thread lol my only aim was to open the debate on the credibility of your claims and seek conformation of them. I usually am a good judge of character and though never meeting you or hearing you talk in person, I had a strong sense that you are genuine.

I would appreciate a further response from Clifford Stone for an insight into the character of Steven Greer and anything else you feel may be of interested to the members of this great site. Also any other information which you may have not mentioned in your many interviews you have given which would be of importance if you are willing.

Thanks to all

reply to post by Lucas_1984

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The disclosure project is like a double edged sword; I mean It can either be the biggest orchestrated hoax ever, to alienate the general public from the extreme sophistication of military technology and other covert projects, or it is the ultimate truth that few people are ready to accept. If military and other high ranking personnel are coming forward to tell their story, no one can prove so far that they are not being paid or forced to do an acting job, or whether they are doing this willingly. Also there is the possibility that many such wistleblowers might have been spectators to mock military exercises intended to deceive and confuse, after all isn't such practice a very powerful tool integrated in the 'military machine'?
On the other hand, I am observing that many whistleblowers are either of middle age or older and this has lots of bearing on the issue since by this time the psychology of a person is quite mature and other psychological traits are well rooted. In short, It does not take much to persuade a young person to tell a set of lies and stand by it no matter what, but it will be a completely different job with a person who is not seeking power or financial rewards but to live the last years in a serene environment.
In short, in my idea even if there may be exaggerations or distortions of the extraterrestrial issue from subjective analysis and misinterpretations by certain overenthusiastic, prejuiced or biased subjects, there seems to be a certain amount of truth in all this.
Humans only consider the distance between stars and see the impossibility of crossing from one to the other, but how about us a million years from now, would we have reached sirius by then. Well, many other species with different morphologies might have started their evolutionary process millions of years before us and if that is the case nothing is going to impede them from visiting our planet.

reply to post by CLIFFORD STONE

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Hello Cliff,

As per your request, I will spill what I know of these topics. Bear in mind, though, that these are almost thirty-year-old memories.

Yes, Cliff did have a long and difficult battle to get his family with him. It was my impression that he'd been sent to Germany without them to cut down his support structure. As all soldiers know, though, when the orders come, you have to go. Thus Cliff went to Germany, leaving a wife with children in what was to them a foreign country.

I know this bothered him terribly, because he talked about them all the time. The details I do not have, though I do remember seeing a reply to a letter he had written to a congressman. He was chided for going outside of the chain of command, but shortly thereafter, his family arrived.

I do vaguely remember something about his having to leave the Monday following their arrival. I do not remember the details very well. The conversation Cliff mentions does not sound like something I would have said. As an E-4 living in the barracks with no transportation other than my feet, I was in no position to promise to look after anyone's family. I was also in no position to be aware of classified missions. More than likely this was Ed Dutton, the senior mail clerk to Hanau Military Community, or quite possibly that unit's Top, who's name I do not remember. He was, if I remember correctly, a large Black man who taught Tai-Kwan-Do on the side. He and Ed called Cliff "Stoney". I called him "Cliff" or "Specialist Stone".

While there, I had noted that Cliff was a square peg in a round hole. He took exhaustive notes on all sorts of things. He carried a locked briefcase. He seemed to know about things before they happened... like alerts and such. He was also too smart for the position he was placed in. With his MOS and detail oriented nature, he should have been placed in MI, not as an assistant unit mail clerk.

Before I left, I asked Cliff what he was "really", and what he was doing in Hanau. Then I modified my question to ask if I would see the results before I went home.

His answer: "You might see some of it." So far as I am aware, I didn't see any of it, though I was more concerned with getting out of the army, into college, and starting a new life. Had I known then the things I know now, I might have made different choices, but that's Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Desert Storm was a long way off, and I never dreamed I might actually go back into the military and see parts of the world I never wanted to see.

This thread has been an interesting read. I will say that many of the things related by Mr.Stone are similar to things related by other whistle blowers and first hand contactee's.

Alex Collier, The Terra Papers, Phil Schneider.. the list goes on.

As one with MANY strange sightings and personal experiences I do believe there is truth at the very least in part of each story here.


I would love to know for certain which race it was that came to me as a child and keeps showing themselves from time to time.

Has that gold sphere been associated with any specific race yet?

Great find on this! This really reminds me of Alex Collier.......