MORMONS?

Originally posted by OneCall
So, you are in Happy Valley, eh?

I live in Bountiful, work in Midvale.

Salt Lake City

Please see my link
www.abovetopsecret.com...

in my opinion, anyone who finds a book in their backyard and says it was sent by god is a nut in my books. but that's just me...

Originally posted by deafence#
in my opinion, anyone who finds a book in their backyard and says it was sent by god is a nut in my books. but that's just me...

Joseph Smith is also the only person who ever saw it.

Originally posted by OneCall

I guess that I've sort of heard about the Church preaching against joining secret societies, although I never in my 20+-year tenure as a Mormon explicitly heard it preached from the pulpit. I find it strange, though, because they have their own secret club called the Temple-Worthy Mormon that's pretty damn exclusive that's surrounded by its own air of secrecy.

First, that's wrong. I HAVE a temple recommend still (although it's probably no longer valid) and have been INSIDE 4 seperate Mormon temples. The "exclusiveness" you're talking about is over-exagerrated by a LONGSHOT. Basically, you are interviewed by the bishop of the ward. He asks you simple questions like "Do you smoke?" 'No' "Do you drink" 'No' "Do you cheat on your wife" 'No' "Do you pay your tithing?" 'yes' "Ok, I find you worthy for this recommend".
Obviously, that's simplified, but that's about the extent of it. If you're a member who obviously doesn't have a criminal record and can answer those questions, you can get one. But this idea that only a very select few mormons can get in and whatnot is flat out wrong.

Funny too, how the Mormon Church might frown on secret organizations, and yet won't make its financial or membership and attendance records known to its own members, let alone the general public. The Book of Mormon talks about the Gadianton Robbers and their secret combinations and secret socieities - speaking about how evil they are and how secret combinations are evil - and yet, what is the Temple Ceremony with its secret handshakes and signs but an amalgamation of secret combinations?

Once again, WRONG. Like I said, I've been through all this. Secret handshakes? Secret signs? I never encountered ANY of that. Perhaps that's what you've read on the disinformation capital of the world (i.e. the internet), but it simply isn't fact.

There is a definite connection between Masonry and Mormonism, although (as I said in a previous post) I don't think it is a Masonic construct, so much as it is one man's attempt to take an idea he liked and mash it into his own home-grown religious stewpot.

I don't know, there are many things to mormonism (specifically it's history) that don't sit well with me, which is a reason why I left.

Originally posted by SevenZeroOne

Originally posted by OneCall

I guess that I've sort of heard about the Church preaching against joining secret societies, although I never in my 20+-year tenure as a Mormon explicitly heard it preached from the pulpit. I find it strange, though, because they have their own secret club called the Temple-Worthy Mormon that's pretty damn exclusive that's surrounded by its own air of secrecy.

First, that's wrong. I HAVE a temple recommend still (although it's probably no longer valid) and have been INSIDE 4 seperate Mormon temples. The "exclusiveness" you're talking about is over-exagerrated by a LONGSHOT. Basically, you are interviewed by the bishop of the ward. He asks you simple questions like "Do you smoke?" 'No' "Do you drink" 'No' "Do you cheat on your wife" 'No' "Do you pay your tithing?" 'yes' "Ok, I find you worthy for this recommend".
Obviously, that's simplified, but that's about the extent of it. If you're a member who obviously doesn't have a criminal record and can answer those questions, you can get one. But this idea that only a very select few mormons can get in and whatnot is flat out wrong.

Funny too, how the Mormon Church might frown on secret organizations, and yet won't make its financial or membership and attendance records known to its own members, let alone the general public. The Book of Mormon talks about the Gadianton Robbers and their secret combinations and secret socieities - speaking about how evil they are and how secret combinations are evil - and yet, what is the Temple Ceremony with its secret handshakes and signs but an amalgamation of secret combinations?

Once again, WRONG. Like I said, I've been through all this. Secret handshakes? Secret signs? I never encountered ANY of that. Perhaps that's what you've read on the disinformation capital of the world (i.e. the internet), but it simply isn't fact.

There is a definite connection between Masonry and Mormonism, although (as I said in a previous post) I don't think it is a Masonic construct, so much as it is one man's attempt to take an idea he liked and mash it into his own home-grown religious stewpot.

I don't know, there are many things to mormonism (specifically it's history) that don't sit well with me, which is a reason why I left.

OK, well, let me lay out some more information and people can judge, since the term "secret society" is probably going to boil down to a matter of somantics.

First of all, I'll direct people to a web site that has the full text of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony:

www.irr.org...

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the post-1990 temple ceremony, and it includes secret handshakes (i.e., tokens of the priesthood). Now, since for the Church, the Endowment Ceremony is extremely sacred, there are no official Church sources available with which to compare it, so I guess people are just going to have to accept my word or yours.

I'm just going to assume that you have been to the temple to perform baptisms for the dead, a practice that occurs in a corner of the temple far away from the other places in the Temple where the Endowment Ceremony takes place.

Now, as to secrecy, let me make some points (as well as re-iterate some other points that I have made in previous posts):

1) Only worthy members of the Church may enter the temple. Non-members and non-worthy members cannot (honorably) obtain a temple recommend to enter the temple and attend the Endowment ceremony. (I'll note that if you have some connections, it probably wouldn't be that hard to obtain a temple recommend and enter the temple, be you a non-member or non-worthy member.)

2) If you are an adult, you have to be a baptized member of the Church for a year before you can obtain a temple recommend and enter the temple. Most people raised in the Church don't take their Endowment until they are nearly 20 (men take it just before they leave on their mission at 19, while women take it just before their mission - if they go - at 21 or just before they marry).

Note: On limited condition are young adults (12 - 18) admitted into a portion of the temple. They can obtain a temple recommend to perform baptisms for the dead, which take place in a separate area of the temple than the Endowment Ceremony. For example, the baptismal area in the Salt Lake City temple is actually underground, in what would be the basement level of the temple.

3) Only temple recommend-holding members can attend Mormon temple marriages. I was not allowed to attend my brother's own wedding ceremony (nor was my youngest brother) because I was not/am not a temple-worthy Mormon, while my brother was too young to be endowed.

4) I'll also reiterate the secrecy in which the Church's finances and member and attendence records. The Church no longer (since the 40's or 50's) discloses its financial records for public scrutiny (even for members). Likewise, their membership and attendance records are not open to the public, which allows them to state that they have 11 million members on record, all the while knowing that a good number of those are members that no longer attend.

I'll let other members of this forum decide for themselves.

I guess some people have eyes, and still can not see. The LDS religion proves that.

I've been informed that the Five Points of Fellowship was removed from the post-1990 Temple Ceremony.

Here's another website that exposes the temple ceremony (and the interesting attire Mormons wear during it):

www.mormonismi.net...

I thought it was Jehovas that were the crazy ones?

I dare say I'm not crazy. Although I guess to those who hate, dislike or 'misunderstand' Jehovah's Witnesses, I may seem like I am... for the most part I'm just like everyone else in that I have bills to pay, I go out and spend time with friends and family, I live day to day just like you do. Of course I'm not going to waste any time typing out a list about 'why Witnesses aren't crazy'. Maybe some are!! Ha ha ha The majority are loving and kind, some are funny, some are shy, some are bold, some are business owners, some are mothers, fathers, CEOs, accountants, teachers... my point is Witnesses are regular people who have problems like everyone else, endeavoring to serve God and share the Bible's promises with others.

And just a quick note about 'Jehovas' - the reason JWs are called "Jehovah's Witnesses", is because we're witnesses or worshipers FOR or OF Jehovah, which is God's name (can refer to Ps. 83:18 in most Bibles, also Isa. 43:10), WE'RE not actually JEHOVAH

My intent is not to argue with those who don't like Witnesses, I'm aware that there will always be those who don't like them.

p.s. don't mean to sound like we're perfect either!! far from it but i won't waste time typing out a list of my flaws either!!

[Edited on 30-12-2003 by XML]