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posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:08 AM
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Well what are the Bias of Mormans.
My freinds wife is morman, and she said its comparable to Sikhism, in that they belive in the equailty of all man kind, men/women, race, caste, no disregard to sexual preferece.
Is this true?
Deep




posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:11 AM
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Just have to say i hate Mormons they try spreading the word of Jesus to ppl who have said they dont believe in god.

They asked me if i beleived in god i told them "no" they just wouldnt give up in trying to assure me there is a god.



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Well what are the Bias of Mormans.
My freinds wife is morman, and she said its comparable to Sikhism, in that they belive in the equailty of all man kind, men/women, race, caste, no disregard to sexual preferece.
Is this true?
Deep


I'm sorry, but I'm not quite sure what exactly Sikhism involves, so I can't answer how close it is to it.

As far as actual teachings and gospel, they teach that all races are created equal. Women are considered to be equals, even holier in god's eyes, but the men bear the responsiblity (for the most part).

Homosexuality is not condoned, nor accepted (like almost every other Christian denomination). And no, Mormons will persecute or attack homosexuals as many christians have, but they do not encourage it, and feel people can change.

I also want to stress that as we have all seen in Islam, there are perversions to every religion. People are people, and some will act outside of the teachings of the religion while pretending to be part of it. But these people are no more credible respresentations of the religion than, say, Osama Bin Laden is of Islam.



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:17 AM
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Thanks.
Im gonna look up mormons on Google

I thought it was Jehovas that were the crazy ones?
Deep



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Thanks.
Im gonna look up mormons on Google

I thought it was Jehovas that were the crazy ones?
Deep


I had a friend who was a Jehovas witness a long time ago. man, I thought I had went through alot of crap for being Mormon. This poor guy was always being picked on for his religion. That, and my own experiences, have really changed my mind on religion and passing judegment/insulting others because of theirs.

Mormons are one of the most misunderstood (dare I say hated) groups in the US, so I'd be very careful about doing internet searches. You're liable to find alot of false information or lies.

The official website of the Mormon chruch (which, by the way, is officially known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) is www.lds.org. I'd check that out first if you want actual facts on the Mormon church as a whole.

Good talkin to ya, Deep.


P.S. I like your avatar. Where did you find it?



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 01:33 AM
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On the net, I did a yahoo image search.
I was trying to find a picture of One of my Gurus.
Its kinda funny...well to me anyways.
But that bad part is, that this actaully happened, Sikhs were being mistaken for the Taliban, and being assaulted, harrased, one was even shot and killed.
People can be so arrogant at times.
Deep



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 03:52 AM
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If you want to understand Mormonism, do some research into the life and beliefs of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
Brigham Young made this chilling statement regarding a person's obligation to spill the blood of those who committed serious sins:

"Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, 'shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?'

"All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant....

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....

"This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.... if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind." (Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, February 8, 1857; printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 219-220)

In 1958, Gustive O. Larson, Professor of Church History at the church's Brigham Young University, acknowledged that blood atonement was actually practiced. He related the following:

"To whatever extent the preaching on blood atonement may have influenced action, it would have been in relation to Mormon disciplinary action among its own members. In point would be a verbally reported case of a Mr. Johnson in Cedar City who was found guilty of adultery with his stepdaughter by a bishop's court and sentenced to death for atonement of his sin. According to the report of reputable eyewitnesses, judgment was executed with consent of the offender who went to his unconsecrated grave in full confidence of salvation through the shedding of his blood. Such a case, however primitive, is understandable within the meaning of the doctrine and the emotional extremes of the [Mormon] Reformation." (Utah Historical Quarterly, January, 1958, page 62, note 39)
www.exmormon.org...

Brigham Young also taught that,
"Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not A REFLECTION OF OUR WORTHINESS or LACK OF IT IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE? ...[C]an we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in DARKEST AFRICA, or in FLOOD-RIDDEN CHINA, or among the STARVING HORDES OF INDIA, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that BECAUSE OF PERFORMANCE IN OUR PRE-EXISTENCE some of us are born as CHINESE, some as JAPANESE, some as Latter-day Saints. ...A CHINESE, BORN IN CHINA WITH A DARK SKIN, and with all the HANDICAPS OF THAT RACE seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE TO JUSTIFY BEING BORN OVER THERE AS CHINAMEN, if they now, in this life accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous? Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... THIS NEGRO, WHO, IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE LIVED THE TYPE OF LIFE WHICH JUSTIFIED THE LORD IN SENDING HIM TO EARTH IN THE LINEAGE OF CAIN WITH A BLACK SKIN, AND POSSIBLY BEING BORN IN DARKEST AFRICA.... IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. IF THAT NEGRO IS FAITHFUL ALL HIS DAYS, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. HE WILL GO THERE AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 294.

These are just 2 of the teachings by the founders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I suggest reading the history and other teachings from this site
www.exmormon.org...
if you want more info. They give valid documetation for all of the facts that they present and I have found them to be a very credible source of information.



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 09:24 AM
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Oh, I'm so happy I'm not alone! I know the LDS religion is wrong. Any idiot can see that. What about the links between masonry and the mormons, I'd like to know!



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by jezebel
If you want to understand Mormonism, do some research into the life and beliefs of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
Brigham Young made this chilling statement regarding a person's obligation to spill the blood of those who committed serious sins:

"Now take a person in this congregation who has knowledge with regard to being saved... and suppose that he is overtaken in a gross fault, that he has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, 'shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?'

"All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant....

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....

"This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.... if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind." (Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, February 8, 1857; printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 219-220)

In 1958, Gustive O. Larson, Professor of Church History at the church's Brigham Young University, acknowledged that blood atonement was actually practiced. He related the following:

"To whatever extent the preaching on blood atonement may have influenced action, it would have been in relation to Mormon disciplinary action among its own members. In point would be a verbally reported case of a Mr. Johnson in Cedar City who was found guilty of adultery with his stepdaughter by a bishop's court and sentenced to death for atonement of his sin. According to the report of reputable eyewitnesses, judgment was executed with consent of the offender who went to his unconsecrated grave in full confidence of salvation through the shedding of his blood. Such a case, however primitive, is understandable within the meaning of the doctrine and the emotional extremes of the [Mormon] Reformation." (Utah Historical Quarterly, January, 1958, page 62, note 39)
www.exmormon.org...

Brigham Young also taught that,
"Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not A REFLECTION OF OUR WORTHINESS or LACK OF IT IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE? ...[C]an we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in DARKEST AFRICA, or in FLOOD-RIDDEN CHINA, or among the STARVING HORDES OF INDIA, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that BECAUSE OF PERFORMANCE IN OUR PRE-EXISTENCE some of us are born as CHINESE, some as JAPANESE, some as Latter-day Saints. ...A CHINESE, BORN IN CHINA WITH A DARK SKIN, and with all the HANDICAPS OF THAT RACE seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE TO JUSTIFY BEING BORN OVER THERE AS CHINAMEN, if they now, in this life accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous? Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... THIS NEGRO, WHO, IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE LIVED THE TYPE OF LIFE WHICH JUSTIFIED THE LORD IN SENDING HIM TO EARTH IN THE LINEAGE OF CAIN WITH A BLACK SKIN, AND POSSIBLY BEING BORN IN DARKEST AFRICA.... IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. IF THAT NEGRO IS FAITHFUL ALL HIS DAYS, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. HE WILL GO THERE AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954, as quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book entitled "The Changing World of Mormonism," p. 294.

These are just 2 of the teachings by the founders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. I suggest reading the history and other teachings from this site
www.exmormon.org...
if you want more info. They give valid documetation for all of the facts that they present and I have found them to be a very credible source of information.


I'd like to bring to your attention for you own knowledge and benefit, that most all of that is either flat-out wrong, severely misinterpreted, or no longer in exsistence. If you are of the belief that this is still the way the Mormon church operates, or has operated in the last 100 years, you are ignorant.

The catholic church has had a long history of torture, corrupt and evil popes, and misguided ideology for hundreds of years. However, it's understood now (at least I hope for common sense's sake) that that is simply no longer the way of the catholic church.

Southern baptists preached decades ago racism and hatred of blacks, and in fact, interracial dating was banned at Bob Jones University, a major baptist university.

Yet would you say that these accurately reflect this religons or followers?

Please, I was a Mormon for 18 years of my life, and was raised in a Mormon home, so I'd venture to say I know significantly more about the religion and it's beliefs than ANY internet site on the web. Don't fool yourself. Deny Ignorance.



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by scepticalwatcher
Oh, I'm so happy I'm not alone! I know the LDS religion is wrong. Any idiot can see that. What about the links between masonry and the mormons, I'd like to know!


One last thing, saying there is a link between Mormons and Masonry is like saying there is a link between the KKK and NAACP.

Mormon leaders are very explicit that "secret societys" and exclusive clubs/groups are patently against church policies and not allowed.
In fact, university students are even discouraged from joining soroities and fraternities on campus because they generally are very exclusive.

It's such a shame to see such disinformation and ignorance here, and I'm not even a Mormon anymore. But seeing it come from THIS site of all places and with patent disregard for actual facts is disappointing. I would have expected much more.



posted on Dec, 15 2003 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by SevenZeroOne
I'd like to bring to your attention for you own knowledge and benefit, that most all of that is either flat-out wrong, severely misinterpreted, or no longer in existence. If you are of the belief that this is still the way the Mormon church operates, or has operated in the last 100 years, you are ignorant.
What exactly is wrong, or misinterpreted in the quotes that I posted? Is it your claim that these quotes are fabricated? My intention in posting them was not to show what is currently practiced by the Mormon church, but what the forefathers of the church practiced.

Also, if you notice the date on the below quote, you will see that it is 1958, showing it was only 45 years ago that a Professor at BYU advocated Blood Atonement.

"To whatever extent the preaching on blood atonement may have influenced action, it would have been in relation to Mormon disciplinary action among its own members. In point would be a verbally reported case of a Mr. Johnson in Cedar City who was found guilty of adultery with his stepdaughter by a bishop's court and sentenced to death for atonement of his sin. According to the report of reputable eyewitnesses, judgment was executed with consent of the offender who went to his unconsecrated grave in full confidence of salvation through the shedding of his blood. Such a case, however primitive, is understandable within the meaning of the doctrine and the emotional extremes of the [Mormon] Reformation." (Utah Historical Quarterly, January, 1958, page 62, note 39)

On the issue of racism, this doctrine was taught up until 1978. Public protest over the barring of blacks from the priesthood, caused the shift in the Official Church Policy.
There is a personal account from a missionary, working in Brazil at the time, that explains how the change in doctrine affected him. It is at, www.lds4u.com...


The catholic church has had a long history of torture, corrupt and evil popes, and misguided ideology for hundreds of years. However, it's understood now (at least I hope for common sense's sake) that that is simply no longer the way of the catholic church.

The originator of the doctrine claimed by the catholic/protestant churches, Jesus, did not advocate murder, torture, or corruption. The leaders of the churches, which came to power after Jesus, chose to perform those crimes on their own accord, not because of divine inspiration telling them to.

The difference here is that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught Blood Atonement was required by the Laws of God for the salvation of some men whose sins could not be redeemed by the Crucifixion of Christ.

"I have known a great many men who LEFT THIS CHURCH for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their BLOOD HAD BEEN SPILLED, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER FOR THEM, the wickedness and IGNORANCE of the nations forbids this principle's being in FULL FORCE, but THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THE LAW OF GOD WILL BE IN FULL FORCE". (Sermon by Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, Feb. 8, 1857, printed in the Deseret News, Feb. 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pp. 219-220)

The same goes for the racism issue. Racism in the Southern Baptist religion was not based on the teachings of Christ, but on the ignorant fear and hatred of the men teaching that prejudice. They cannot support their racism through Jesus' lessons.

Racism in the Mormon church was based on the visions and revelations that the prophet Joseph Smith was supposed to have received directly from God.

Though he was a rebel and AN ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, CAIN MANAGED TO ATTAIN THE PRIVILEGE OF MORTAL BIRTH. Under Adam's tutelage, he began in this life to serve God....he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... As a result of his rebellion, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to RULE over SATAN.(Mormon Doctrine, p. 102)


Please, I was a Mormon for 18 years of my life, and was raised in a Mormon home, so I'd venture to say I know significantly more about the religion and it's beliefs than ANY internet site on the web. Don't fool yourself. Deny Ignorance.

Feel free to counter any of my statements or quotes, if they are incorrect. I was not educated by the Mormon Church. I have only studied it's history, since I feel that the truth of a belief is found in it's original doctrine. Over time, everything changes to fit the will of the majority.



posted on Dec, 16 2003 @ 01:42 PM
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It seems that Joseph Smith and his Masonic buddies had a 'distaste' for dark skin. An excerpt from my post on the other Momon thread: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peep the nonsensefrom the B.O.M.:

2 Nephi, 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

2 Nephi, 5:23 "And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done."

They even say that "Lamanite" converts can become white again!

2 Nephi 30:6 "And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and delightsome people."


David Icke is known for spreading disinformation too but he also digs up some very good info as well: www.davidicke.com...




ONE



posted on Dec, 16 2003 @ 04:36 PM
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Joesph Smith is a false prophet. There are some positive aspects of Mormonism, but the funder of their chruch is a liar.



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 10:04 AM
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Um, yeah; I think we already established that RALPH.



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
Like peanut butter and chocolate. Two things bad for you, even worse put together.



What do you get when you mix "peanut butter" and "chocolate"? The great
taste of... "Reese's Peanut Butter Cup"


[Edited on 17-12-2003 by Salem]



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 04:19 PM
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Hi all, there's another thread over in the Secret Societies message board where I explain much about Mormonism. I'll re-iterate some of the points in this post, and maybe explain a few things I didn't in the other post. For background's sake, I will say that I grew up in the Mormon Church, but have since left the religion (I guess I'd be what is called an ex-Mormon). I believe that it is a very controlling and domineering religion with many cultish aspects, although I don't care to pontificate on its alleged "evilness" or its connection to higher powers (such as the Illuminati).

1. Mormons also call themselves Latter-Day Saints. The official name of the Mormon Church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They believe that they are the only "true" church on the face of the earth, and that they are the only ones with the "fullness" of the gospel. All other churches have only the partial truth or are patently false. Mormons used to espouse this idea proudly, though the Church's PR machine (under the direction of its current Prophet and President, Gordon B. Hinkley) hasn't towed this hard-line for the last decade. Mormons believe they are Christians because they believe in the Savior Jesus Christ. Most other Christians disagree.

2. I don't believe that Mormonism is a Masonic construct, although it has roots in Masonic practices. Mormons practice secret (or sacred, if you ask them) ceremonies in their temples. Only worthy adult members of the Church are allowed into the Mormon temple. Many of the signs and tokens in Mormon temple ceremonies come straight out of Masonry, and the Salt Lake City temple is riddled with Masonic symbols. This is due to the fact that Joseph Smith was, in fact, a Mason, and many of the founding members of the Church had Masonic connections. The Mormon temple ceremony includes such Masonic things as the Sure Sign of the Nail and the Five Points of Fellowship. Joseph Smith contrived the temple ceremony some weeks after attaining a certain degree within Masonry. He believed that the Masonic practices were indeed handed down from the time of Solomon's temple, but that they had been corrupted. In contriving the temple ceremony, he believed that he was restoring the practices back to their original, holy state. While the temple ceremony includes many Masonic signs and tokens, the verbage of the ceremony and the ceremony itself are pretty divorced from what you would see in a Masonic ceremony. Nevertheless, the connection does exist.

3. The keystone of Mormonism is the Book of Mormon. When he was 18 or so, Joseph Smith, Mormonism's founder, reportedly discovered the book, which had been penned on golden plates by the ancient author Mormon, and secreted away in the hills of New York. Mormons believe an angel (Moroni) appeared to Joseph one night and told him about the plates. He saw allowed to see them on the same day (September 22) for four years, before God allowed him to finally handle them. He then went about the process of "translating" the plates. (I won't get into the process of translation, but it involved Joseph sticking a "seer stone" in the bottom of a hat and then sticking his head in the hat - though most Mormons are unaware of this.) At any rate, Joseph says he translated the book of Mormon from these ancient golden plates, which, strangely enough, no one was really allowed to see. A common Mormon belief (though patently false) is that Joseph did this all at the age of 14. Not true, Joseph communed with God and Jesus when he was 14 (Mormons call this event the First Vision), then first learned of the plates from the angel Moroni when he was 17 or 18. The Book of Mormon wasn't actually published until Smith was 23 (almost 24).

4. The Book of Mormon (in short) tells the story of the family of Lehi (whose "most righteous son" was Nephi), who left Jerusalem around 600 BC (just before the Babylonian Captivity) and subsequently (through revelation) were led to sail across the sea to the Americas. The book then continues on to tell the story of their descendents, chronicling the time between 600 BC - 400 AD. The book tells how some of Lehi's sons turn away from their Jewish traditions, wherein God curses them with a dark skin, and they henceforth become known as Lamanites (while those that remain true come to be known as the Nephites). The book chronicles the struggles between these two groups of people, and also tells how Jesus visited the righteous ones after his resurrection. To make a long story short, all of the Nephites (white and delightsome) are killed by the Lamanites. Old-school Mormons (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and, more recently, Spencer W. Kimball) taught that the Native Americans were all descendents of the Lamanites, and that if they would just receive the gospel, they would become white and delightsome.

5. Another book in Mormon scripture is the Pearl of Great Price. At some point during his tenure in Nauvoo, IL, Joseph Smith acquired some Egyptian mummies and funeral papyra. He quickly "discovered" that the papyra were actually texts that had been written by Father Abraham, and he then proceeded to translate them into the Pearl of Great Price. This book tells the story of the creation of the world (wherein he talks about a council of Gods), and it further deepens certain points of Mormon theology. The actual papyra was thought to be lost, but was rediscovered in the 50's or 60's, wherein it was discovered that the papyra was actual standard Egyptian funeral text - the Book of the Dead. Apologists, however, have ways of explaining away this discrepency.

6. Mormons believe that God is sovereign over this world - that he is Lord and Master, Alpha and Omega. However, they believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are separate personages. God and Jesus have actual physical (albeit immortal) bodies. They also believe that God was once a man, and that man may become as God. God has a wife (many, probably) that bears spirit children, who then come to earth to be tested, and upon successful completion of the test can become Gods/Goddesses themselves, able to create their own worlds and populate them with their own spirit children, thereby allowing them to perpetuate the cycle, which has been continued on ad infinitum.

7. Mormons no longer practice polygammy. The practice was abandoned in the 1890s, because of political pressure from the United States government. There are many fringe and splinter groups in Utah that do still practice polygammy (an estimated 50000 - 100000). In order to be admitted as a state, Utah was forced to abandon polygammy. The Church officially denounced it, though it continued on in private up until the 1920's. Now, the Church takes a hard stance against it, and no man is allowed to have more than one wife. However, Mormons believe that polygammy is a celestial law, and that it will be practiced in the hereafter.

8. Mormonism also has some origins in the occult, or the folk magic practices of rural America in the early 1800's. Joseph Smith's family was steeped in mysticism, and he was a known treasure digger and divinier. All of this is outlined in D. Michael Quinn's well-researched book called "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." Quinn is a homosexual who was once a history professor at Brigham Young University; he has since been excommunicated from the Church. Most Mormons dismiss him because he is a homosexual - obviously, he's got an agenda. But, his material is meticulously researched and well-worth the read.

9. The Mormon temple ceremony has changed over the years. The pre-1900 ceremony included oaths to avenge the blood of Joseph Smith and to see to the downfall of the American government. However, when word of this reached US officials, political pressure forced Mormons to change the ceremony. The ceremony was again changed in 1990, where certain blood oaths (complete with signs of throat slashing and disembowelment) were removed, probably due to social pressure. The oaths were sworn, and oaths are still taken, to prevent members from revealing the ceremony. It is considred sacred and not to be discussed outside of the temple. Anyone interested could probably find it online.

10. The Mormon Church is rich. To be considered a worthy Mormon, you must be a full-tithe payer, which involves tithing on 10% of your gross income. It's estimated that the Church is worth over $30 billion, and secures single-digit $ billion each year (though the current economic downturn has probably taken its toll on these figures). Tithing is in addition to wellfare offerings (donations to the Church's wellfare arm). The Church is, of course, a tax-exempt organization that DOES NOT disclouse its financial records to its members, let alone the general public.

11. Mormons believe (though it is not as emphasized as it once was) that blacks are the descendents of Cain who slew Abel. Brigham Young (a product of his day) that interracial relations were grounds for execution. Until recently, black members of the Church were not allowed to hold the Holy Priesthood. In 1978, due to political pressure or revelation (however you choose to see it), the Church abandoned that stance, and blacks are now able to hold the priesthood. The lay clergy of the Church is unpaid - its all voluntary. And the full-time servants of the Church are paid with stipends.

12. Only men are allowed to hold the Holy Priesthood, which gives them the power to act in Gods name and to perform the rites and rituals of Mormonism (blessing and admistering the sacrament, governing the Church, pronouncing blessings upon the sick, baptizing and confirming new members). The Holy Priesthood is broken into two groups - the Aaronic (or lesser Priesthood) and the Melchezidik(sp?) Priesthood. Young men normally receive the Aaronic priesthood at age 12, which gives them the power to administer the sacrament and to baptize. Men normally receive the higher priesthood at age 18, and that Priesthood allows for administering healing blessings, confirmation into the Church, and to hold specific Church leadership positions.

13. Most Mormons don't go through the temple ceremony until they are around 19 or 20, and because the ceremonies aren't talked about openly and are so different than what you are used to seeing at a standard Sunday meeting, many people report being quite taken back. However, as you are usually standing there with your family, many report almost feeling "compelled" into taking the oaths, even though you are given the opportunity to dismiss yourself before doing so. After you have been through the ceremony, you are then required to wear magical underware (called garments). They have special marks (like a ^) at the nipple, navel, and knee, and they are meant to remind you of the sacred oaths you have taken, although there are many that report that they have magical powers of protection. They are quite funny looking.

Well, I hope that clarifies some things. I believe that Mormonisms greatest foe is its own unwillingness to face up to its dubious past. Church historical vaults have been sealed to all but the friendliest of apologists for the Church, and many historians and social commentators have been silenced and excommunicated.

Currently, I believe the Church is having a difficult time maintaining membership - a fact greatly exaserbated by the free information on the Internet. I know that the Membership Records department of the Church is receiving letters by the droves from people that are having their names stricken from its rolls - resigning their membership. More and more, I believe the Church will be looking to Latin America and other poorer countries to inflate their membership numbers and feed their obsession with presenting an ever-expanding and ever-growing religion.

As with all organizations, the people of the Church range from friendly to close-minded, absurd, and down-right strange. I refrain from mocking the people, but I will say that the upper-echelons of the Church are very business savvy. In fact, its almost a pre-requisite for the higher local leadership positions (such as Bishop or Stake President) that you be financially well off. All of the Bishops I had owned their own successful businesses and were quite wealthy.

Two of my favorite places of information about Mormons are:

http:\\www.exmormon.org
http:\\www.lds-mormon.com

Signing off from the Mormon Corridor (aka, Utah).

Cheers!



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 04:41 PM
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...where abouts in Utah are you at? I'm in South Utah County, Payson to be exact.



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 06:33 PM
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So, you are in Happy Valley, eh?

I live in Bountiful, work in Midvale.



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 06:58 PM
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One last thing, saying there is a link between Mormons and Masonry is like saying there is a link between the KKK and NAACP.

Mormon leaders are very explicit that "secret societys" and exclusive clubs/groups are patently against church policies and not allowed.
In fact, university students are even discouraged from joining soroities and fraternities on campus because they generally are very exclusive.

It's such a shame to see such disinformation and ignorance here, and I'm not even a Mormon anymore. But seeing it come from THIS site of all places and with patent disregard for actual facts is disappointing. I would have expected much more.



I guess that I've sort of heard about the Church preaching against joining secret societies, although I never in my 20+-year tenure as a Mormon explicitly heard it preached from the pulpit. I find it strange, though, because they have their own secret club called the Temple-Worthy Mormon that's pretty damn exclusive that's surrounded by its own air of secrecy.

Funny too, how the Mormon Church might frown on secret organizations, and yet won't make its financial or membership and attendance records known to its own members, let alone the general public. The Book of Mormon talks about the Gadianton Robbers and their secret combinations and secret socieities - speaking about how evil they are and how secret combinations are evil - and yet, what is the Temple Ceremony with its secret handshakes and signs but an amalgamation of secret combinations?

There is a definite connection between Masonry and Mormonism, although (as I said in a previous post) I don't think it is a Masonic construct, so much as it is one man's attempt to take an idea he liked and mash it into his own home-grown religious stewpot.



posted on Dec, 17 2003 @ 07:05 PM
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I don't like the idea of babtismals for the dead. If they didn't want to be a Mormon in life, why would they in death?





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