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Interesting Twist in the Logic of Why Disclosure Has Not Occured

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posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 08:41 PM
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I cant believe some you really think aliens travelled millions of miles to earth and then crash land or get short down by such inferior technology




posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by thesun
I cant believe some you really think aliens travelled millions of miles to earth and then crash land or get short down by such inferior technology


I'm not sure if you are referring to my into post, or not. I'm not suggesting that extra-terrestrial, (or time-travellers) have been shot down by inferior technology. I'm suggesting the possibility may exist that they were shot or that their "craft" was dissabled or damaged at some point in Earth's future (or distant past) and before they hit the ground or crashed they traversed time for possibly some unknown reason.

In other words here is a ficticious scenario:

The year is 2379. Alien allies who have been humanity's proven friends and allies for nearly 200 years are engaged in a war, which has brought a battle to our solar system. During the battles some craft are injured and fall to earth, but although dissabled or injured in 2379, they fall to earth and crash-land in 1947. So, without proof, is it the future enemy, or the future ally that has crashed? This could percievably be the delema, those who have all available information, do not have enough information available to know what is going on.


Hope this better explains what i was trying to say.

Thanks for the input and thoughts,
john


[edit on 9-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel
One more explanation.

Secret military craft which "look like" popular ideas of assumed-to-be-extraterrestrial ETs have a profound strategic advantage: enemies are less likely to shoot at them than under the assumption they were from an earthly military force.

Hence, creating or hoaxing UFO-like phenomenon to generate this idea is an information-war advantage.


Well one thing for sure, who's ever in charge of and operating those UFO "look alikes" that perform and manuever like something 'out of this world', where such crafts are so far beyond any known aircraft in existence, that we know of ... those military factions or WHATEVER who are controlling and operating those advanced aircrafts/UFO's obviously are not interested in ending the war in Iraq because with the technological capabilites that these crafts possess, they could have ended all conflict in Iraq in a number of different ways if this is what they want to do... but of course, we are not seeing any intervention on their part in this war because if they had intervened, the war in Iraq would be over!
So this must mean that the powers that be obviously want things to continue as they are in that part of the world for reasons we can only speculate on and I find this very unsettling.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
.... those military factions or WHATEVER who are controlling and operating those advanced aircrafts/UFO's obviously are not interested in ending the war in Iraq because with the technological capabilites that these crafts possess, they could have ended all conflict in Iraq in a number of different ways if this is what they want to do... but of course, we are not seeing any intervention on their part in this war because if they had intervened, the war in Iraq would be over!
So this must mean that the powers that be obviously want things to continue as they are in that part of the world for reasons we can only speculate on and I find this very unsettling.


I humbly dissagree, although your logic is justifiable in our efforts to interpret their intentions. But, in judging their intentions, i believe it is necessary for us to know our own intentions, and what motivates us to perform our actions and behaviors. Often it is human nature to fear the unknown, and jump to conclusions in judging the intentions of others without knowing our own intentions. So when we judge the intentions of others, what are we holding up for comparison besides the expectations of others?




... obviously are not interested in ending the war in Iraq because ...

... they could have ended all conflict ...




Although i do not like to impose theological or philisophical arguements into posts seemingly unrelated to BTS topics, i think it is justified here in order to support the consideration of other perspectives. The root cause for the conflict is within us, and internal i believe. So, if "they" (aliens/powers) wish to end all conflict, the battleground is within the collective human mentality and psychi, to include how our dna influences our actions and behaviors, which is a byproduct of our intentions, which is a byproduct of what we value, reverence, and love most. Humanity learns the hardway. We take no ones word without verification, without proof, without validation. So, if we are to learn how to adapt in a manner that permits tolerance of others, we do not learn through being taught, rather through experiencing our own follies and mistakes. Which grants us proof, if we accept we are flawed. If not, we are in denial of reality. There is either some truth to this, or there is not. That is up to the individual to decide, understandably. I will say this, since we do not have adament, undeniable proof that answers our questions, i do support the fact that people do follow different paths of thoughts looking for the answers. Diversity in the way we think is both a hinderence at times, and a tool that propells us forward in our search to understand the truth of the matter.



... we are not seeing any intervention on their part in this war ...


Then again, perhaps not everything is broadcasted over the news. There is an executive order that permits the government to "take over" the news, and if they did, in full or partial, i'm not convinced they would televise it over the news, necessarily.



... this must mean that the powers that be obviously want things to continue as they are ...


we the people are the powers that be. Sometimes we choose to act, other times the odds just seem too overwhelming.


john



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:58 PM
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while i like the premise of this thread, i would like to chip in with a dose of logic (or what i see as logic) that won't be 2 poplular

that aliens don't have to travel millions of millions of miles to get here, some already are with there craft, and also traveling that distance to them is NOT some extrodinary feat.

also aliens are not all that different from us, like we are led to beleive. we are supposedly made up of 97% junk dna cause scientist don't understand it so that call it junk. i think we may have extraterrestrial orgins ourselves.

anyway wether u are open to my last paragraph or not, u can give yourself the option to be open to this i beleive there are many advanced races of aliens that have zero intention of "helping man kind" instead if they can not use us for something they would just assume kill us, but do to some kind of karmic laws that are not enable to directly influence our free will, despite the fact they are more advanced than us, however they do things subtly so that they manipulate our behaviors INdirectly by shaping our attitudes and opinions and getting us to steer our own lives in ways that are consistent with there agendas, this they are trying to become masters at, using the secret gov't as there puppets who in turn pull our strings, and i think the gov't is freaked out realizing the "aliens" are pulling there strings as well. i think the effort the aliens are putting forth to do this is increasing (haarp) because at this period humans have the capacity to adapt to the following changes going on throughtout the solar system, paticularly near earth, call it a survival mechanism or what u will, but i beleive our DNA now has the ability's to connect the 3'rd 4'th 5'th strands (again as a survival mechanism) and this is a huge threat to there VEIL of SECRECY.

these earth changes which basically are causing a change in our vibrations or frequency in which we perceive things were seen by many ancient civilizations and teachings wether u call it an increase in consciousness or what and wether u understand the period after 2012 is never meant to be the end just a time which is the culminatiion of a P r o c e s s that is occuring now

[edit on 9-1-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by cpdaman
while i like the premise of this thread, i would like to chip in with a dose of logic (or what i see as logic) that won't be 2 poplular.


I have not read this post further than this statement, and have already decided to quote it, as well as show support for your input. I feel inclined to immediately agree with you because of this reason:
The Truth we seek is NOT a popularity contest. It is a quest for the truth, through either verifiable means, or through speculative abstract thinking. Diversity is a tool in humanity's arsenal that all too often is seen as a hinderance. And your point is both logical, and a breath of fresh air. Thanks cpdaman for saying something that needs to be said. Now, i'll continue reading your post, and comment where i can, or feel inclined to do so.



also aliens are not all that different from us, like we are led to beleive. we are supposedly made up of 97% junk dna cause scientist don't understand it so that call it junk. i think we may have extraterrestrial orgins ourselves.


I have the same belief, however it is important to keep an open mind pending all facts, and be ready to adapt our beliefs quickly when confronted with evidence that is contrary. To my knowledge the above has not been proven yet.

interesting, and noteworthy comments (regarding the rest of your post)

Thanks again for sharing your views,
john

[edit on 9-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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I had some more thoughts concerning why future generations of earthlings (whether human or otherwise) may percievably need to traverse time.

1) According to lead scientists, Tom Brokaw's Science channel show entitled "Global Warming: What you should know with Tom Brokaw", and Al Gore's environmental movie:

It is plausible that the effects of global warming may soon be unreversable by human means and technology. ALL 5 major extinction events of this planet have taken place due to climate changes, and according to the sources listed above, we can expect to see MILLIONS of species of plant and animal life on earth go extinct by the year 2100.

This most certainly could be a justifiable reason for fixing things in our time, before their time arrives. But, if they alter our timeline, they can not return to their own timeline, since it no longer exists due to the changes. Perhaps this is the term applied to some "fallen angels", or perhaps there is no correlation.

At any rate, entertaining the time travel necessity theory, what other cataclysmic events would warrant intervention in our time from possible time travellers (alien or worldly) from the future?

Any thoughts? Thanks, john



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Palasheea
.... those military factions or WHATEVER who are controlling and operating those advanced aircrafts/UFO's obviously are not interested in ending the war in Iraq because with the technological capabilities that these crafts possess, they could have ended all conflict in Iraq in a number of different ways if this is what they want to do... but of course, we are not seeing any intervention on their part in this war because if they had intervened, the war in Iraq would be over!
So this must mean that the powers that be obviously want things to continue as they are in that part of the world for reasons we can only speculate on and I find this very unsettling.



I humbly dissagree, although your logic is justifiable in our efforts to interpret their intentions. But, in judging their intentions, i believe it is necessary for us to know our own intentions, and what motivates us to perform our actions and behaviors. Often it is human nature to fear the unknown, and jump to conclusions in judging the intentions of others without knowing our own intentions. So when we judge the intentions of others, what are we holding up for comparison besides the expectations of others?


With all due respect, I don't know what you are disagreeing with but thanks for saying that you are understanding the logic I'm using in this scenario. As far as me judging the powers that be in the situation I've described above, you are absolutely correct in saying that because that's exactly what I'm doing.

IF in fact it's true that there's a collaboration between the 'powers that be' and those 'other' intelligences who are technologically far more advanced than we are where they are allowing this war to continue when in fact they could step in and end it; the fact that they are not doing that causes me much concern because war is evil. And those who perpetuate war are evil. And those who have the means and the power to stop wars, but do not -- are evil. And because they are not intervening in this war to stop it, I believe that it's their INTENTION to allow it to continue... and yes, I'm judging them because if that's their intention then their reasons for doing so are evil too!

And please don't misinterpret what I'm saying here. I'm not speaking in metaphors. The situation I'm describing as to the possible collaboration between the powers that be and those non-human intelligences are only speculations but they are speculations about possible REAL EVENTS. I'm not using metaphors in my description of this particular scenario and I can't see how anything that I said about this could even be interpreted that way. Nor are my words to be put into Freudian context as free associations because I'm not describing a dream to you either.

But if you are saying that I'm just projecting my own 'stuff' onto those who are involved in this speculative secret collaboration between the 'powers that be' and those intelligences they've been working with where I really should be looking at my own intentions instead and not theirs.... all I can say about that is that I humbly disagree and to suggest to you that you might want to reflect on what your intentions were for even suggesting that.

Now how much do I owe you for this session?





... obviously are not interested in ending the war in Iraq because ...

... they could have ended all conflict ...





Although i do not like to impose theological or philisophical arguements into posts seemingly unrelated to BTS topics, i think it is justified here in order to support the consideration of other perspectives. The root cause for the conflict is within us, and internal i believe. So, if "they" (aliens/powers) wish to end all conflict, the battleground is within the collective human mentality and psychi, to include how our dna influences our actions and behaviors, which is a byproduct of our intentions, which is a byproduct of what we value, reverence, and love most. Humanity learns the hardway. We take no ones word without verification, without proof, without validation. So, if we are to learn how to adapt in a manner that permits tolerance of others, we do not learn through being taught, rather through experiencing our own follies and mistakes. Which grants us proof, if we accept we are flawed. If not, we are in denial of reality. There is either some truth to this, or there is not. That is up to the individual to decide, understandably. I will say this, since we do not have adament, undeniable proof that answers our questions, i do support the fact that people do follow different paths of thoughts looking for the answers. Diversity in the way we think is both a hinderence at times, and a tool that propells us forward in our search to understand the truth of the matter.


So what you are saying here, and I hope you don't mind my attempt to interpret you -- the reasons or the way those aliens behave and do the things they do is really only a manifestation of man's collective consciousness in terms of our mentality, state of mind and ability or inability to love and express love in a meaningful way.

The fact that, as far as we know, they have not intervened to stop the war is because in reality, WE as humans, do not even really want the war to stop in the first place and their non-intervention policy on this is only a reflection of our decision to not end it.

So it's a 'we create our own reality' thing and somehow those aliens are affected by those realities that we create by manifesting in such ways that reflect those realities within the context of whatever collective conscious mind that they are operating in.

This is very interesting and I will think about this more because you may be onto to something here! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 06:09 AM
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I like this idea a lot. But i'm certain it isn't the only reason.

As i've stated, wherever there is shady business you have two things going on:

1) A hidden agenda from the top that is simple.

2) An exposed agenda from the middle and bottom that seems to make sense and is reasonable enough for the orders to be followed.

I.E.

In my best estimate the reason for not exposing UFO's and that different governments have a workable knowledge of the et technology is because free-energy would completely disrupt all financial systems and all the work on globalisation would be for nothing. Free-energy is just that, freedom. Oil and electricity is not free.

However it is possible that the order for the middle and bottom is that "we don't know what we're dealing with, because of risk of panic, no one is to know."



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by jaguarmike
I like this idea a lot. But i'm certain it isn't the only reason.

As i've stated, wherever there is shady business you have two things going on:

1) A hidden agenda from the top that is simple.

2) An exposed agenda from the middle and bottom that seems to make sense and is reasonable enough for the orders to be followed.

I.E.

In my best estimate the reason for not exposing UFO's and that different governments have a workable knowledge of the et technology is because free-energy would completely disrupt all financial systems and all the work on globalisation would be for nothing. Free-energy is just that, freedom. Oil and electricity is not free.

However it is possible that the order for the middle and bottom is that "we don't know what we're dealing with, because of risk of panic, no one is to know."


Thanks Jaguar.... you've pretty much put it into a nutshell and certainly what you are saying here needs to be seriously considered.
I've just jotted down some of my own thoughts on all of this but only for my own purpose to seek more clarity on this topic. Nevertheless, I'm posting my thoughts on this here in case anyone would like to read it.

Going on the information that there's a faction of et's (composed of various species) who actually engaged in a FORCED agreement with the 'powers that be' (POB) in order to carry out their agenda, we can safely assume that their agenda is a less than honorable one in regard to humans. And why is this?
-- Their violation of human rights while in the process of setting things up for what ultimately appears to be the implementation of a plan to take over the planet.
-- If the annihilation of mankind (or most of it) is also included in this plan, which in these circumstances we would be absolute fools to rule out, we will never know until that time comes.
-- In the meantime, it's best to err on the side of caution and be on guard and seek to find out and educate ourselves on every bit of information out there about these beings who are controlling the POB's so at least we can get some idea what we are dealing with.

-- Do the POB's now have the knowledge to create free energy? No
-- The reason why this is is because those et's they are working with and or being controlled by never gave them that information in the first place to do that.
-- But the biggest reason why we know that the POB's do not possess this information is because if they did, those 'good' et's that are out there would be giving the rest of mankind that same information so we can use it to protect ourselves.
-- This has not happened yet so for this reason I do not believe that there's a covert group of humans who now possess this information.
-- Why did the et's give at least some of the information that have on free energy to the POB's? It's probably a carrot dangling in front of the donkey type scenario where tempting them with such information made it easier to get the POB's to help them set things up to carry out their agenda.
-- Will there ever be full disclosure? Not until the POB's have all of the information they need to create free energy bu that will never happen... for obvious reasons.
-- If humanity ever attains the knowledge to create free energy that can be utilized in practical ways... that information will come from those benevolent beings out there who too possess that information -- but so far humanity as a whole is not ready to have this knowledge because at the present time, we are still too spiritually un-evolved as this same information not only has the potential to create... but also to destroy.

[edit on 10-1-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 01:51 PM
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Yeah i'd put my money on that for 95% of what you are saying.

I do believe key elements in some governments have free-energy. I do believe the huge boom in technology, especially military technology, is a result of a crash-landing type incident. With that said, i'm in awe of how structured and organized it is (the conspiracy)- it's something you wouldn't expect from the type of being who would choose slavery over freedom. However, the agenda that is exposed has better people working on it.

The funny part is ET is in the same condition we are- they (most, definately not all anymore) don't have a solution to the many problems beings face, which is why I support the organization I do. ET is more advanced, but so were we at one time, all of us.

Once you learn about the soul collector and really think it through- it changes everything about what you've grown up believing or the disinfo you've been exposed to.

The only solution is freedom. Seek it, do it.

[edit on 10-1-2007 by jaguarmike]



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by thesun
I cant believe some you really think aliens travelled millions of miles to earth and then crash land or get short down by such inferior technology


Don't take offense when I say this but start thinking outside of the box- or at least move to the top of the box lol. Do people makes mistakes? Yes? Ok, then an EBE makes mistakes as well. Think of them as humans with more true information and better technology- that's all they are (minus the genetics).

I don't know if I have the correct data of Roswell being the first offical USA crash-landing, but if I am correct:

Let's say a whole crew of anti-aircraft people were watching the skies and monitoring their radar (did they have this back then? lol). Let's also say a mysterious object with weird sounds and blinking lights comes into view. That crew has never seen something like this and will definately be terrified- too scared to press a button or shoot.

Let's ignorace the crafts defenses for this argument, just focus on man's fear; wouldn't happen.

The craft crashed.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I had some more thoughts concerning why future generations of earthlings (whether human or otherwise) may percievably need to traverse time.

1) According to lead scientists, Tom Brokaw's Science channel show entitled "Global Warming: What you should know with Tom Brokaw", and Al Gore's environmental movie:

It is plausible that the effects of global warming may soon be unreversable by human means and technology. ALL 5 major extinction events of this planet have taken place due to climate changes, and according to the sources listed above, we can expect to see MILLIONS of species of plant and animal life on earth go extinct by the year 2100.

This most certainly could be a justifiable reason for fixing things in our time, before their time arrives. But, if they alter our timeline, they can not return to their own timeline, since it no longer exists due to the changes. Perhaps this is the term applied to some "fallen angels", or perhaps there is no correlation.

At any rate, entertaining the time travel necessity theory, what other cataclysmic events would warrant intervention in our time from possible time travellers (alien or worldly) from the future?

Any thoughts? Thanks, john


I've thought about this but certainly the take over by malevolent et's of our world would qualify as a cataclysmic event that would warrant intervention into our time by those time travelers from other worlds.

I don't think these time travelers would be humans from our world but on the other hand, they could be those same et's from the future who have taken over our world who have since decided to undo the damage done so as to seek forgiveness by those benevolent et's who would require that from them to be accepted back into the fold.

So would those time traveling et's be considered fallen angels because once they undo the damage, the world that they came from from the future no longer would exist? Actually I think it's the other way around. Those et's who have forced an agreement with a covert group that I'm calling the 'powers that be' (POB's) are actually what some call, at least in a biblical context, 'fallen angels'.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by jaguarmike
Yeah i'd put my money on that for 95% of what you are saying.

I do believe key elements in some governments have free-energy. I do believe the huge boom in technology, especially military technology, is a result of a crash-landing type incident. With that said, i'm in awe of how structured and organized it is (the conspiracy)- it's something you wouldn't expect from the type of being who would choose slavery over freedom. However, the agenda that is exposed has better people working on it.

The funny part is ET is in the same condition we are- they (most, definately not all anymore) don't have a solution to the many problems beings face, which is why I support the organization I do. ET is more advanced, but so were we at one time, all of us.

Once you learn about the soul collector and really think it through- it changes everything about what you've grown up believing or the disinfo you've been exposed to.

The only solution is freedom. Seek it, do it.

[edit on 10-1-2007 by jaguarmike]


Thanks Jaquar! I'll read up on that information you are referring to as I'm always curious what other sources are saying about all of this.
If you have any links to some pages that go right into some of this material, please post them sometime because I'd like to read it.

As for soul collectors, I recall some people here saying that John Lear said something about that... will look that up. Thanks for the info!



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 12:42 AM
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What evidence, even suggestive, is there that either Powers That Be or ET aliens have 'free energy'?

Is nuclear fission "free energy"?

Are solar panels "free energy"?

Would a creation of such a device destroy the economy? Does free internet calling destroy the economy?

Quite to the contrary it would be very beneficial. Who would be making them?

The Powers That Be would love to have it to put it in their airplanes and tanks, and so that they could escape entanglements from the oil producing nations.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by jaguarmike
I like this idea a lot. But i'm certain it isn't the only reason.


I agree jaguarmike. There are certainly numerous variables that affect such an agenda, presuming an agenda exists.



1) A hidden agenda from the top that is simple.

2) An exposed agenda from the middle and bottom that seems to make sense and is reasonable enough for the orders to be followed.


Although i agree with you to a degree on these 2 VERY VALID points, I believe a means to uncovering truths concerning such agendas may be measurable. If we were to look at the BIG (**GLOBAL**) picture and make a record of the cause and effects of the actions and behaviors of those who have both the means and the power to implement their intentions, we may at the very least be better enabled to more accuratley determine what is really going on. But at the same time, we must know what our own intentions are, and spend time reflecting on our personal actions and behaviors and what motivates us to do the things we do. Why?
Because it is our own intentions is what we use as a basis for comparison when we choose to apply our logic. So, determining what process exists that creates our logic, our opinions, is equally important for ascertaining the truth of it, i believe.

Good thoughts from everyone, unfortunatly life's responsibilities beckon. I'll be back on ATS in a couple days to read in full all contributions thus far.

Thanks guys,
john



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel

What evidence, even suggestive, is there that either Powers That Be or ET aliens have 'free energy'?

Is nuclear fission "free energy"?

Are solar panels "free energy"?

Would a creation of such a device destroy the economy? Does free internet calling destroy the economy?

Quite to the contrary it would be very beneficial. Who would be making them?

The Powers That Be would love to have it to put it in their airplanes and tanks, and so that they could escape entanglements from the oil producing nations.






Dr. Stephen Greer and the Disclosure Project has done phenominal work on the entire subject. You can research all their works and read their books all over the internet.

As for it being beneficial to the elite, no. It would be beneficial for middle-men and some leaders, but not the elite. Free-energy in the sense of spending very little money to create a device the size of a generator that can power an entire city forever. This is what I mean. And ceasing oil would most certainly create freedom. The elites don't wish there was another option- oil is great for profits- but the real goal is divide and conquer and globalisation. The only way to do that is to conquer the world- as we are seeing with Bush's new speech calling for 20k new troops and colorfully saying an Iran strike with all middle-eastern allies is imminent. It's globalisation. It's NWO.

[edit on 11-1-2007 by jaguarmike]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Terapin
Actualy I have no idea. "What if" games can be fun, but they are too easy.


And potentially VERY misleading. OR not.

It all depends on how the 'if' is treated:
1. As a hypothesis (treated with true scientific method)
2. As a fairy tale quick-crete solution
3. As a personal attempt to validate personal opinion arising from personal fears


Speculation is good, but it is better to back them up with data. I'd like to see more that points towards time travelers.

Yes! I'm only interested, always, in approach #1 as listed above! And knowing ET (the ATS member who initiated this thread, not the 'alien') as I do, I daresay that we might get somewhere if we attempt to apply ourselves according to #1, listed above.


Possible, perhaps, but stating that it hasn't been disproven is like stating that Noahs ark hasn't been disproven. 40 cubits by 40 cubits yet it held a pair every species in the world inside.


Ah, but you see, right there we have already ran into an obstacle.

Noah's Ark has not been dis-proven. Especially on the basis of there needing to be room for every species in the world inside. The bible doesn't even say that - many people interpret/perceive/assume such....but I investigated the text and indeed that is not the case.

What it actually says is more similar to the account given in the book of Ezekiel...the 'wheel within a wheel' was comprised of four living creatures...it is these same 4 living creatures (in pairs) that were sheltered within the ark.

And many people have seen similarities between modern day accounts of UFO's and Ezekiel's vision!

Note:


And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
~Genesis 6:19-20


Every living thing of all flesh
is more accurately understood as:
every living part of the whole of every part of the whole body.

The word used for 'living thing' in Genesis is the very same as used for 'living creatures' in Ezekiel 1:5:


Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.


And in Genesis 6:20 we are given three 'kinds' of living things:

  1. fowls
  2. cattle
  3. creeping things


Add Noah (a man) and there are four.

The 'fowls' are literally birds. The 'cattle' is more appropriately described as 'dumb beast.' And the 'creeping things' are literally reptiles.

So that could very well be matched up x 3:
Genesis 'fowl' = Ezekiel 'eagle'
Genesis 'cattle' = Ezekiel 'ox'
Genesis 'Noah' = Ezekiel 'man'

Maybe there is a reason, yet unknown or understood, that the 'creeping thing' became or was substituted for the 'lion.'

[I know this probably seems WAY OFF TOPIC to most readers. Please bear with me, because I am reasonably certain it is totally pertinent to the whole initial question introduced in the OP.]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
It is plausible that the effects of global warming may soon be unreversable by human means and technology.

And also plausible that it is totally OUTSIDE of human means for manipulation as far as prevention or alteration.
However, it is ALWAYS within our ability to modify our reactions and the way that we cope with unexpected/uncontrollable change.

The extinction events you mention have mostly been hypothesized to have causes best defined as 'acts of God.'


This most certainly could be a justifiable reason for fixing things in our time, before their time arrives. But, if they alter our timeline, they can not return to their own timeline, since it no longer exists due to the changes. Perhaps this is the term applied to some "fallen angels", or perhaps there is no correlation.

Wow. Yeah. That really opened some doors in my mind. I will explore through them each as I am able to! Wow.


At any rate, entertaining the time travel necessity theory, what other cataclysmic events would warrant intervention in our time from possible time travellers (alien or worldly) from the future?


A super-volcano erupting from Antarctica. While not immediately catastrophic, truly potentially cataclysmic on a global scale - especially under current socio-economic conditions. At the same time, with a common-sense non selfish approach applied globally, surely we could also come out of it in a far better way of life than when it takes place.

Points to consider:

  1. A super-volcano on Antarctica would not immediately threaten any one nation or group but would inevitably affect all nations and all people over time, due to various effects on growing food, water supplies, etc.
  2. The sudden eruption, unexpected, could very well cause major confusion and utter chaos in many parts of the world, both 'civilized' and 'third-world.'
  3. Many would truly believe 'the end of the world' is here. Those that survive would come to realize that indeed, as often has been noted by historians regarding other cataclysms and catastrophes in the past, it WAS the end of the world as they knew it!
  4. Working together in a reasonable and globally-oriented fashion would nullify the initial fright and horrified reactions - and would unite us in both cause and concern if we saw it as something AFFECTING us all...it would truly make our farthest neighbor just as important as our own twin brother!


I have many sound points of potential evidence for my theory...but I want to present them logically because I am quite serious about this and therefore want to be taken seriously. So I'll have to post them after getting them together with supporting info as much as possible.



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 12:01 AM
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The possibility exists that perhaps full disclosure has been made, but in a hidden way that is also very open to all.

Perhaps the evidence we seek is soooo broad and all encompassing we simply do not take it all in at the same time, usually.

We seldom see any correlation between all the other ATS/PTS/BTS forums, we tend to compartmentalize the information into sub-groups.

What if the truth lies scattered amongst all of them as well as from every medium of sensory information coming into our minds?

just some thoughts i had after reading your guys' posts. I'll re-read through them later, when there is less on my mind.

thanks guys,
john




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