The Chevrolet Volt: A General Motors Plug-in Electric Drive Hybrid Vehicle(Detriot Auto Show), page 1

The Chevrolet Volt: A General Motors Plug-in Electric Drive Hybrid Vehicle(Detriot Auto Show), page

privacy

Pages: << 1 2 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times

Topic started on 7-1-2007 @ 04:53 AM by sardion2000

It sounds like a Hybrid, but please don't call it a Hybrid because it isn't according to GM. This is an EV which gets it's charge from an Internal Combustion engine and it's Plug-In capable too!

The engine is a turbocharged, 1.0L three cylinder engine with 71 hp that has no mechanical connection to the wheels. The ICE runs at about 1800 rpm and drives a 53 kW generator that charges the lithium ion battery pack. The engine starts and stops automatically as needed to charge the battery.

My question is, why aren't capacitors used in tandem with the LiIon batteries? Weight issue? Capacity Issue? I'd like to know the reason.

www.autobloggreen.com...

Here is the full article. It's a great read.

The Volt has a range of about 40 miles on the battery alone which might not seem like much. But, considering that most people drive fewer miles than that per day, it should mean that a lot of drivers will never use a drop of gas on their daily commute. However, when the fuel tank is filled to it's capacity of 12 US gallons of gas, the Volt has a range of 640 miles. In addition, the Volt ICE is fully flex fuel capable and can run on any combination of gasoline or ethanol up to E85. The power-train is sized to achieve 0-60 mph acceleration of about 8.5 seconds.

Related Thread

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 01:10 PM by Soitenly

Why don't you do the research yourself and find out?

These cars are expensive and weak and high maintenance. I'd take a Studebacher over a hybrid or a plug-in.

Here is the description of the car:

1.0L three cylinder engine with 71 hp that has no mechanical connection to the wheels

I would hate to drive on freeways, highways, roads with sharp turns, up a hill, down a hill, or on any road with a speed limit greater than that present in a shopping mall parking lot with that car. Sounds like a death trap.

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Soitenly]

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 02:32 PM by Hal9000

Well finally they have designed an environmentally friendly car just for me. I drive a little over 40 miles a day so a plug in hybrid will not have the range. I was going to look into a hybrid but I also want to buy American. I will definitely be looking into getting one of these.

Me likey very mulch.

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 02:40 PM by RRconservative

The funniest thing about hybrid cars is the costs involved.

Consumers think they will save money on gasoline. They will! If they keep the car 10 years!

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 03:08 PM by sardion2000

This isn't a Hybrid technically speaking. It's a Plug in, Gasoline Burning Electric Vehicle, Electric Drive that is. Modded Plug-in Prius' have been reported to get upwards to 80 mpg and some even claimed over a 100 mpg.

As for the cost factor, as this technology improves it will become standard for a lot of vehicles. Once mass production cost reductions come into place as well as various regional and national taxes making their competition more expensive... well it's going to be rather academic in a few years.

But anyways, the reason why I posted is cuz I wanted to post more pics.

blog.wired.com...

Looks like they are trying to get the jump on Tesla Motors. Competition is another thing that will drive costs down.

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 04:01 PM by Hal9000

Originally posted by sardion2000
Modded Plug-in Prius' have been reported to get upwards to 80 mpg and some even claimed over a 100 mpg.

This is what I was looking into, a plug in hybrid. You take a production hybrid and double the battery capacity and add some circuitry to recharge it at night. You don't really save any money on gas, because you have to pay for the electricity, but because you recharge it with power from the grid, the CO2 emissions are much less. The problem though is the batteries are also very unfriendly to the environment, and will need replaced every five years or so.

Another consideration for me though is safety. The small hybrids like the Prius and Insight don't look like they would hold up in a serious crash, especially when most of the other vehicles on the road are SUV's. I wanted to get a midsize hybrid but the only choice is the Honda or Toyota, but more are coming out this year.

I am a firm believer in fuel cells, but there are still too many hurdles to get around. The main problem is building the infrastructure for a hydrogen economy. Another is safety of storing the hydrogen in the car, but some progress is being made. There are plans to build a prototype hydrogen station in Akron Ohio, which is fairly close, but I don’t know if it will ever be built.

I think the new Volt looks like a good compromise between being practical as well as environmentally friendly. I would still need to know the price and cost of maintenance before buying one.

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 04:08 PM by soficrow

Excellent find sardion.

Looks to me like it has serious potential. And you're right - it WILL kickstart competition in the marketplace.

All RIGHT!

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 04:14 PM by sardion2000

You take a production hybrid and double the battery capacity and add some circuitry to recharge it at night. You don't really save any money on gas, because you have to pay for the electricity, but because you recharge it with power from the grid, the CO2 emissions are much less.

Electricity is much cheaper than gas and is a very flexible distribution medium. Much more flexible and cheaper then Hydrogen stations.

How much does it cost to install plugs again? Everybody already has the last mile infrastructure already in place. The good thing of Plug-ins is that if the homeowner decides he doesn't want to have to pay for the electricity and wants to reduce his impact even further, then all he has to do is to start putting of PV and WTs on his property.(yes I know it's more compllcated than that)

The problem though is the batteries are also very unfriendly to the environment, and will need replaced every five years or so.

Silver-Zinc batteries show up Lithium-Ion/Composite batteries

From what I learn from people who are actually doing R&D into battery technology at my University, the hurdles are like this in order of difficulty and limitations due to physical laws: Capacity: most people I talk too only expect a 2 to 3 fold increase in battery technology in the next 20 years, Longevity: this is truly up in the air. Conservative estimates based on current progression(a lot of money is being sunk into this field by Electronics companies) range from a modest 20 % increase while others say hybrid battery/capacitors could push it up to near infinite recharges, Sustainability: Most people think this will be relatively easy compared to the other two challenges. They stress they are workable challenges and not physical limitations.

I am a firm believer in fuel cells, but there are still too many hurdles to get around. The main problem is building the infrastructure for a hydrogen economy. Another is safety of storing the hydrogen in the car, but some progress is being made. There are plans to build a prototype hydrogen station in Akron Ohio, which is fairly close, but I don’t know if it will ever be built.

Take a look at this. Hydrogen simply cannot outperform EV or even PI Hybrids. Ever. You said it yourself. The infrastructure is in place for EVs (H2 is decades behind) and most of the problems with EV's have been resolved with a few outstanding issues(will attention continues to focus on EV's and Hybrids over Hydrogen). It is the future. The true Hydrogen economy will debut when we finally figure out fusion.

Also, it's rather premature to judge a sector with relatively little data to form an opinion. How many Hybrids are on the market right now? How many EVs? How many FC cars? Hell, even GM has conceded that Hydrogen will most likely remain niche well into the middle of this century(I think they estimated that by 2050, 10% of the cars on the road will be Hydrogen Fuelcell vehicles)

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 05:32 PM by Hal9000

Originally posted by sardion2000
Electricity is much cheaper than gas and is a very flexible distribution medium. Much more flexible and cheaper then Hydrogen stations.

Yes currently it is more practical, but the end goal is to eliminate CO2 emissions. Electric power plants still put out CO2 even though it is less than cars. I can't recall the inventors name, but it is something like Slovinsky who has designed a hydrogen station that runs on solar cells, so even though generating and distributing hydrogen is not as efficient as electricity it does not matter because the energy used is free and clean. Granted this is decades away, but it is the best solution I have seen so far.

Silver-Zinc batteries show up Lithium-Ion/Composite batteries

Thanks for the link.

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 06:01 PM by sardion2000

Yes currently it is more practical, but the end goal is to eliminate CO2 emissions. Electric power plants still put out CO2 even though it is less than cars.

It's also much cheaper to clean up that industry as well. Look at the Acid Rain accords. Pretty much did away with it in my area, though I hear it's a huge problem in Asia now.

I can't recall the inventors name, but it is something like Slovinsky who has designed a hydrogen station that runs on solar cells, so even though generating and distributing hydrogen is not as efficient as electricity it does not matter because the energy used is free and clean.

Why not cut out the hydrogen? It's an energy leech, not a power source. No matter how efficient you try to make hydrogen, you'll always be able to make a pure EV 2 steps more efficient.

BTW, I got the above Graphic from the cached(the site is down atm) article below(the original link is below it)

Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense

Original link(SITE IS DOWN CURRENTLY)

“In the market place, hydrogen would have to compete with its own source of energy, i.e. with ("green") electricity from the grid,” he says. “For this reason, creating a new energy carrier is a no-win solution. We have to solve an energy problem not an energy carrier problem."

[edit on 7-1-2007 by sardion2000]

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 06:03 PM by Soitenly

Where does electricity come from?

Hippies

reply posted on 7-1-2007 @ 07:31 PM by mikellmikell

The Idea is much better than hydrogen who's only supporters are the oil companies that will sell it. Lawyers will keep hydrogen out of cars forever some people haven't caught on to that though.

mikell

reply posted on 8-1-2007 @ 07:58 AM by Hal9000

Originally posted by sardion2000
Why not cut out the hydrogen? It's an energy leech, not a power source. No matter how efficient you try to make hydrogen, you'll always be able to make a pure EV 2 steps more efficient.

The big advantage with hydrogen is the range. With plug in hybrids the range is around 40 miles then you are back to burning gasoline or a flex fuel. With hydrogen the range can be up to 600 miles before refueling without burning any gasoline. So it depends on the needs of the user.

BTW, I got the above Graphic from the cached(the site is down atm) article below(the original link is below it)

Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense

The article does make good points and with new power plant designs that capture CO2 and store it underground, this may end up being more practical than hydrogen. The only problem will be range which could be extended with better batteries, but we won't know for some time. I still think that hydrogen should be pursued as well as EV's and hybrids because each technology has advantages and we will probably be using all of them in the future.

BTW, the inventor I was thinking of was Stanford Ovshinsky who is planning to build a hydrogen station using solar cells in my area. I have not heard an update after being announced last year.

reply posted on 8-1-2007 @ 08:08 AM by EvilBat

After watching a movie called
Who killed the electric car , I started seeing more
progress of car companies to make sure
we still have the gas usage in cars not just for oil
companies cash flow but of there of for maintanince parts
watching one movie does not make me an expert but i have been
into the pure electric cars for awhile, and when I mention to some people that
there were pure electric cars and tell them about this movie.

reply posted on 10-1-2007 @ 09:53 AM by sardion2000

Video tour of the Chevy Volt's E-Flex platform

I believe the Volt is based on this platform. I don't like the fact that the Battery pack is right next to the fuel tanks. I'm sure this will change.

Where does electricity come from?

All energy is derived from the Sun and Gravity Wells.

Care to add more insight into this thread?

Hal9000
The big advantage with hydrogen is the range. With plug in hybrids the range is around 40 miles then you are back to burning gasoline or a flex fuel.

The average commuter drives roughly 30 miles per day. If these types of vehicles start becoming popular, then you can definitely bet that employers will try to reduce turnover by offering plugs at work to recharge and such(and if they were really smart, they'd have it supplied purely by Sustainable energy). This car would reduce pollution dramatically if sold in large numbers over the next decade or so.

So basically, the primary reasons why I favor Hybrid Flexi-fuel Electric Drive vehicles for the Commuter market boil down to these points.

1. FLEXIBILITY: A car in this class will give consumers more freedom and choice. People notice this and will appreciate it in the long run, especially in a Peak Oil future where I predict a fragmentation of the "Fuel of Choice" regionally will make the national landscape more diverse again(much like it was a century ago). These types of cars will drive that change forward.

2. EFFICIENCY:

Speaks for itself.

3. EMISSIONS: Currently modified Plug-in Prius' have been measured to be upwards to 90% cleaner then conventional cars in the same weight class.

4. INFRASTRUCTURE: Who doesn't know how to put a new plug in a wall nowadays? Putting in a plug that is similar to a Dryer plug would be easy for a DIYer or fairly "cheap" to get it done by an Electrician. It's already well understood technology.

5. MODULARITY: This will bring costs down and it's a lesson Detroit should have learned from Silicon Valley a long time ago.

6. REGENERATIVE POWER SYSTEMS: Things like Regenerative breaking are going to be essential to the success of this new class.

I rest my case...baring any new information of course, though I highly doubt such information will change my mind for the Commuter market. Also I've heard the price of H2 Fuel Cell cars with today's technology is still in the six figures.

Another thing that's gonna effect fuel economy a great deal is new "wheel" technology and structural materials. The Carbon Composite revolution in Automobiles will be getting underway soon and that will effect ALL vehicle emissions for the better by reducing payload weight of products made of similar materials as well as their bodies and such. As for the Wheels, I have to ask you a question Hal9000. Have you ever read the book Snow Crash? If you haven't I suggest you get it. It describes "wheel" technology that if used properly can reduce road friction greatly while paradoxically increasing traction, maneuverability, stability and safety.

[edit on 10-1-2007 by sardion2000]

[edit on 10-1-2007 by sardion2000]

reply posted on 10-1-2007 @ 12:12 PM by Soitenly

Are people here advocating increasing the number of coal fired power plants which expose the surrounding environments to sulphur oxides and harmfull rare earth metal pollution in order to drive an electric car? This would do absolutely nothing for the CO2 emmissions I have been hearing so much about.

How are cranes, excavaters, dredgers, bulldozers, backhoes, oil platforms, compressor stations, augers, tankers, cargo ships, chemical ships, airplanes, etc going to run off electricity.

If you people are seriously advocating the use of an electric car, check yourself. A barrel of crude when distilled may get 30% straight gasoline. What to do with that if all the cars are electric? Dump it in the rivers such as refiners did before cars? Does this make any sense?

Refineries specialize in producing the maximum amount of gasoline. This could destroy the economy. What were you people thinking?

reply posted on 11-3-2007 @ 07:07 PM by Realtruth

I can't believe this thread didn't get more action I just found it now.

Thumbs way up on this find.

I love to see this step in the right direction.

hydrogen is a long way off yet.

reply posted on 12-3-2007 @ 02:45 PM by mikellmikell

Actually with 32 new Nuclear plants gearing up for construction coal plants are on their way out. It's about time we got away from coal wat too costly anf dangerous.

mikell

reply posted on 12-3-2007 @ 05:03 PM by sardion2000

The USA could get completely get rid of the need for those additional Nuclear plants as well if they ban the Incandescent light bulb. 1/5th of all electricity is used for lighting.

reply posted on 13-3-2007 @ 05:48 PM by Realtruth

I would suggest if people want this car to get build that they take a moment and let GM know. The comment box is on the bottom left of the link.

Chevy Volt 150 mpg Electric/Gas Car

Pages: << 1 2 >> ^^TOP^^