Originally posted by Long Lance
so, in orther words, everytime someone catches this super resilent MRSA s/he will be blamed for reckless intercourse

PS: on a side note, if you contracted AIDS via mosquito, would anyone believe it or claim you were *just* sleeping around and doing IV drugs?

You highlight a number of important issues Long Lance.

It's a tangled web - and we pay.

The first lie is that infectious disease was "conquered" in the 50's. It wasn't.

Other big lies:

* Have to do with the epidemic of autoimmune diseases that started appearing in force in the USA in the 60's - and progressed, mutated and evolved into numerous strains and forms.

* Say prions aren't real, but if they are, they're not infectious - and so, created a synthetic controversy that stopped preventive measures from being taken when they could have done some good.


Yeah - you're right.

Everything will be twisted, yet again, to hold victims "personally responsible" for their plight.

Anything to offload responsibility and avoid accountability.


.

The hospitals are so grossly understaffed that we are resorting to dangerous practices. It used to be unheard of to accept a "fresh heart" patient (coronary artery bypass graft or heart transplant) right out of surgery and also take on a MRSA patient. The same nurse just wasn't allowed to take both. Now we do. The odds of infecting that fresh heart, who is ill-equipped to fight off such a superbug, are guaranteed. When I was given that very assignment last week, I complained to the charge nurse about the ill-advised assignment. She said, "well, if you use your universal precautions, there shouldn't be a problem". Unwilling to argue with logic like that, I called the heart surgeon and quoted to him what was said to me. He was able to make more of an impact on changing the assignment for the safety of the patient more than I could've. Still, these sorts of things go on all the time. Daily. Shift by shift on every floor. And if someone dies because of these practices the hospital will be able to win their case by citing "universal precautions". I could spend all day telling you all the dangers of hospitals and how their policies meant to save and protect patients are totally ineffective but suffice it to say that if you don't absolutely have to be there-DON'T GO! Even as a visitor.

I remember the days when we didn't wear gloves at all and we actually reused needles after autoclaving them. Part of nursing training was learning to put a 45 degree bevel on a needle and make sure it didn't have spurs on it for the next patient that got stuck with it. We've come a long way baby.

Colloidal silver is still pretty effective. Known to kill 657 types of germs including some fungi and viruses. No "shotgun antibiotics" on the market are that effective or cheap or versatile. Simple solutions are often the best.

Originally posted by whitewave

I remember the days when we didn't wear gloves at all and we actually reused needles after autoclaving them. Part of nursing training was learning to put a 45 degree bevel on a needle and make sure it didn't have spurs on it for the next patient that got stuck with it. We've come a long way baby.

Hmm.

Reusing needles - and other medical tools and devices - is one of the best ways to spread infectious prions. (Autoclaving doesn't kill prions - just creates new strains.)

Of course nobody wants to talk much about that - or to admit it. Or to admit infectious prions are a real medical problem. Not to mention the main biological pathway driving evolution and inter-species hybridization.





ed to add sentence


[edit on 9-1-2007 by soficrow]

Yes, that's the air purifier I mentioned earlier. It works swell and I own one myself. Also bought the charger because batteries can get expensive. One battery lasts about 12 hours so I keep one charging and the other in the purifier (wearing it around my neck).

In the days when we autoclaved needles and rebeveled them, prions were unheard of. Of course, we use disposable now and would never think of re-using needles in this day and age.

Keeping us all in a constant state of fear and anxiety over things we have little control over adversely affects our health as well. Best thing you can do for your health is to become an informed consumer. All these commercials that tell you to ask your doctor before taking this, starting that, doing something different, etc. are a waste of time. I've found doctors don't know much about the drugs they prescribe, the diseases they treat and nothing at all about nutrition. I'm not kidding. They really don't. Not trying to be mean just telling you that they are not priests in the house of god in whom you are to put your faith and your hope for health.

When my daughter had to go to the ICU for asthma she was put on a ventilator (breathing machine). She was near death for almost 11 days. Mind you, an asthmatic, first time on a ventilator has a usual "turn around time" of 48 hours (should get off the vent by then). I watched them "code" her twice which is very difficult for an ICU nurse to stand by and watch. She had 2 central lines (very rare), an arterial line which showed that her blood gases were life-threatening. It occured to me that if everything they were doing was not saving her then maybe everything they were doing was what was keeping her sick. I looked up all 13 of her continuous intravenous medications and found that one of them negated the ones that would help her breathe. I mentioned it to the doctor and he said, "really?" !!!! His specialty was anesthesiology and he should have had a better working knowledge of drugs than most. He took off the offensive drug and she was able to get off the ventilator 15 minutes later. Moral of the story: don't put your life or your loved ones lives in the hands of anyone else. Figure it out yourself. There's always an answer and I have no doubt there's an answer to MRSA/VRSA. Personally, I'd start with colloidal silver.

Originally posted by whitewave

I've found doctors don't know much about the drugs they prescribe, the diseases they treat and nothing at all about nutrition. I'm not kidding. They really don't. Not trying to be mean just telling you that they are not priests in the house of god in whom you are to put your faith and your hope for health.

When my daughter had to go to the ICU for asthma she was put on a ventilator (breathing machine). She was near death for almost 11 days. .......I looked up all 13 of her continuous intravenous medications and found that one of them negated the ones that would help her breathe. I mentioned it to the doctor and he said, "really?" !!!! His specialty was anesthesiology and he should have had a better working knowledge of drugs than most. He took off the offensive drug and she was able to get off the ventilator 15 minutes later. Moral of the story: don't put your life or your loved ones lives in the hands of anyone else. Figure it out yourself.

wow

What a story.

BTW - I concur re: the reliability of doctors and legitimacy of the medical system. (In case you haven't figured that out yet)

There's always an answer and I have no doubt there's an answer to MRSA/VRSA. Personally, I'd start with colloidal silver.

I agree there's an answer.

But I suspect it may not be the one we expect.

well soficrow.....don't leave us hanging. what are your thoughts on the matter? have you heard of some treatment that may prove effective against such superbugs as MRSA? i'd be very interested to hear of them (as i'm sure would everyone else).
read a book several months ago about bioterrorism and how the hospitals plan to deal with such an eventuality. basically Cipro, Bactrim and a few other select antibiotics. pathetic really. those drugs don't even work all that well for a simple bladder infection much less for an engineered superbug.
i think we will see an upsurge of diseases we thought were beaten by our technology: pertussis (whooping cough), polio, etc.
microbes (germs) have killed more people on this planet than all the wars combined. spanish flu alone killed millions! black plague killed one third! of europe. if there's anything out there that can stop the various strains of "simple" diseases, i'd pay good money to find out what it is. (may have to break open my piggy bank but you can have all .87 cents of my "good money")

This is a great thread but I tend to bristle when people label something sexually transmitted when it's really just another bug. The doctor seems to speculating here. Generally you can get bugs/virus from sex not because you're bumping hips but because you are just close to another person. Can anyone deny that there is a pervasive prudishness which lives in America and nowhere else? I wish people could see the medicinal benefits of sex activity, first off. Once they do that, the whole medical profession will change.

What, are we gonna live in individual tents? Make love through thin plastic membranes? Although HIV is said to be sexually transmitted, I am certain this is generally a lie for hetro people and I seem to recall at least one study where HIV+ mates with HIV- mates had sex for years and none of the HIV- mates contracted. Still, condoms make sense for pregnancy and other STDs.

It's good info. Still, we'll all die much quicker if we stop making love.

There's "making love" with someone you are commited to and then there is sexual activity among multiple parteners. Multiple partener sex is potentially more risky.

We can lessen the occurences of such a disease by building stronger relationships, and sticking with one sexual partener as much as possible. And it's good for society.

No, I don't think stopping sex is a real solution, unless we are talking about stopping premiscuous sex.

Troy

[edit on 12-1-2007 by cybertroy]

IMO...

The possibility of "sexual transmission" means that the bug is transmitted via bodily fluids - which mean it gets flushed down the toilet and into the environment.

...We're talking multiple vectors here, and implied unknown reservoirs.

Hate to see this levered into another "War On" anything except industry.

Originally posted by whitewave
well soficrow.....don't leave us hanging. what are your thoughts on the matter? have you heard of some treatment that may prove effective against such superbugs as MRSA? i'd be very interested to hear of them (as i'm sure would everyone else).

I don't have any faith any longer in "medical treatments."

IMO - so-called "treatments" simply force microbes into new evolutionary pathways - and often, cause human mutations too.

Also IMHO - we are in a period of accelerated evolutionary change - forced by human activities - and new virulent microbes are only the tip of the iceberg. Our survival will be mediated by natural processes of mutation, adaptation and evolution - not synthetic interventions.

...This view is emphatically not fatalistic, but actually gives me a great deal of hope.

And direction.

gonna have to ask for a refund on that one soficrow. lol. for a minute there i thought you were going to reveal some heretofore unknown miracle cure. a basically "survival of the fittest" response is discouraging to those of us who are not numbered among "the fittest". you do bring up a good point about body fluids being flushed into the environment. not sure what to do about that either.
yes, microbes will evolve and adapt and much quicker than we can because their generational cycles are shorter than ours. still, we were given "dominion" over the planet and everything on it so it behooves us to explore all the possibilities for staying in the dominant spot.
vibrational medicine shows promise. anyone else heard of possible solutions?

Originally posted by whitewave
gonna have to ask for a refund on that one soficrow. lol. for a minute there i thought you were going to reveal some heretofore unknown miracle cure. a basically "survival of the fittest" response is discouraging to those of us who are not numbered among "the fittest".

Nonono, not survival of the fittest. Survival of the most flexible, and adaptive. ...Big difference.

you do bring up a good point about body fluids being flushed into the environment. not sure what to do about that either.

Accept it.

And recognize that the Gaia hypothesis is closer to theory, and based on molecular fact. What goes around comes around. We are all one. All trite; all true.

... we were given "dominion" over the planet and everything on it so it behooves us to explore all the possibilities for staying in the dominant spot.

Given dominion?

I don't think so.

IMO - we are an integral part of the planet - and our planet, and everything of it, is an integral part of us - including microbes. Maybe especially microbes. Them being the 'messengers.'

vibrational medicine shows promise. anyone else heard of possible solutions?

All that stuff works. Because - IMO - it all involves accepting that we need to integrate the stuff of our planet, to be in harmony, or we will die as un-adapted. At the same time though, we need to slow down our rates of exposure, to give our bodies the chance to deal with the changes.

...The idea of being 'in harmony' or 'one with earth' is generally understood as a spiritual state, but IMO, it can be explained scientifically as assimilation and integration occurring physically, at the molecular level.

"Disease" is simply one mechanism of harmonization, or adaptation. And of course, not changing, not being 'diseased' in an environment that is altered at the molecular level, practically guarantees non-survival.


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thanks smallpeeps for the links. i've read quite a bit about frequency effects on the body. i think frequency weapons are already being used on us (i freely admit i'm a paranoid, conspiracy nut) and it has been known for some time that all organs in the body vibrate at their own frequency. that knowledge can be used for good or evil.
a book entitled "the cancer cure that worked" (50 years of suppressed knowledge) by Lymes (?) lists several illnesses and the vibrational frequency that kills them. have another book around here somewhere that talks about the frequency needed to put a rat into a coma and the frequency to stop it's heart. powerful stuff. if the info pans out then no "superbug" is unstoppable. may take a while to figure out its lethal frequency and may take some pretty fine-tuned equipment to be able to produce the infintesimally small increments of frequency needed for testing the microbes lethality but it's do-able.

the rife machine (or whatever you call it) kills anything (if it works, which i think it does), but what can you do if the bug's lines are too close to your own?

not sure if this can ever happen, though, because similar patterns probably mean similar purpose.

A friend of mine had elective surgery last week.
She was told to get a prescription for a strong antibiotic to take postoperatively.
At the time, I thought it was in case the site got infected.
Being against antiiotics, she began a herbal regimen know to strengthen the immune system and ward off infection.

Now, I'm thinking hospitals and doctors are giving these prescriptions to avoid what they KNOW is out there---MRSA.
The horse is our of the barn, and know the public is expected to try to close the door?

What can medical facilities really do to contain/control MRSA?

Hospitals/medical facilities can do quite a bit to contain/control MRSA and other communicable diseases but we DON'T. Medicine is a business and like any business, you don't want to irk your customer (patient/patient families).

We used to post "TB" (or "AFB" for acid fast bacilli=TB) on an infected patients' door but some compassionate soul decided that was an invasion of privacy so now we just put "respiratory precautions" on the door. Those masks we wear are notoriously ill-fitting and many germs can get through even a HEPA filter. Families usually don't wear them or take them off for "just a quick peck on the cheek" totally negating all our efforts to contain TB.

We have found people having sex with their barely conscious but highly communicable spouse and then, when we run them out of the room, they vow to "go elsewhere for satisfaction". A week later when they (and all their sexual partners) come into the hospital for the same disease, they want to sue us for not properly protecting them.

Any attempts to maintain a contained environment in a public facility (hospitals) would require a "lockdown" type situation which most people find oppressive/barbarian/restrictive, etc.

I've had AIDS infected patients with dementia deliberately try to infect me and witnessed them trying to infect others. Not all AIDS victims get the AIDS dementia but the ones that do seem nearly universal in their desire/intent to infect others. It's a politically protected disease and healthcare workers are not allowed to PROPERLY protect themselves because it's seen as "discriminatory". I've been scolded for wearing ALL available personal protective equipment to enter an AIDS dementia patients room just to change out an IV bag. Told is was "too much" and an "embarassment" to the patient and family. I told them they could be happy I wasn't entering the room with a stun gun and anesthedarts (my personal preference) and if they felt strongly about it they could send me home.

We've made a lot of advancements in medicine (and nursing) but we still can't cure "stupid". (or greedy)

Great post whitewave. Thanks.

Originally posted by whitewave

We've made a lot of advancements in medicine (and nursing) but we still can't cure "stupid". (or greedy)

Even Britain's national health system has problems with MRSA - and c. difficile - due to budget cuts. ...Non-essential support staff go first - BUT - that's the cleaners.

So cutting costs = cutting cleaning staff = dirtier hospitals = rampant infections.

That's what happens when you use a business model for health care.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
ATS member cybertroy started a facsinating thread about nodal patterns and audio freq's below. The second link is the video, very interesting. I think you may certainly be onto something here. I do expect that health comes from something other than science, in most cases.

Bold emphasis in above post mine.

What exactly is meant by that? Everything related to ANYTHING is, in one way or another, linked with science. Science is just the study of the world around us.

I'm confused, that's all. Could you please clarify?

TheBorg