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The object was NOT a Russian rocket!!

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jra

posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by SkyWay
When I wrote posted that message I was responding to the comment by ignorant ape that the event had been predicted and published. So if NASA had predicted and published it then it would have been reported in the major media outlets.


Who says it's NASA's job to report on every thing space related? As far as I know, NASA themselves doesn't track every single object in space. That's the job of the Air Force Space Command (AFSPC), United States Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM) and North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and other related groups.

Also, the thing that de-orbited and burned up was a Soyuz-U... there were 8 other Soyuz-U's that de-orbited last year alone... none of those made the news either. Many man made objects burn up in the atmosphere every year. It rarely makes the news. Why should this event be any different?


And if it has been predicted and published then it must have been considered news worthy, contrary to what you have indicated in the above quote.


Again, just because it's published on the web, doesn't mean it's necessarily news worthy.


But of course it never was predicted nor published in any major media channel because they did not know about it. Neither NASA or NORAD is going to admit that though, because it makes them look rather lagging in their awareness of what is going on in our air-space.
Instead they will probably try to downplay their oversight by claiming, as you suggested, that they knew about it but didn't consider it newsworthy.
Yeah. Sure.


The Space Surveillance Network (SSN) tracks everything that's 10cm in size and larger thats up there. I highly doubt they would have missed a scheduled and well publicized rocket launch. They were no doubt tracking it from launch.

But if you wish to continue to believe that they were unaware, and that for some reason this should have been big news, that's your prerogative.

EDIT to add:

This Soyuz-U rocket body de-orbited just over the southern part of Florida. Was there any advanced warning? I sure don't recall any. www.reentrynews.com...

[edit on 6-1-2007 by jra]




posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 02:56 AM
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Also, the thing that de-orbited and burned up was a Soyuz-U... there were 8 other Soyuz-U's that de-orbited last year alone... none of those made the news either. Many man made objects burn up in the atmosphere every year. It rarely makes the news. Why should this event be any different?


How many times has debris from a Soyuz rocket landed in the United States? A quick look at all the previous instances of these missions reveals startling consistencies. With a little research, the oddities of this event are apparent.


jra

posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
How many times has debris from a Soyuz rocket landed in the United States?


It's not even 100% confirmed if debris did land in the States, at least from the articles I've read. Just that NORAD was looking into it.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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Sorry that it took so long to respond to your post but there was some problem with the telephone line yesterday and I was not able to log on to the internet all day. I'm going to have to switch to broadband. Dial-up drops connections too many times and is too slow and has too many interruptions in service.

Now to reply...


Originally posted by jra

Who says it's NASA's job to report on every thing space related? As far as I know, NASA themselves doesn't track every single object in space. That's the job of the Air Force Space Command (AFSPC), United States Strategic Command (USSTRATCOM) and North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and other related groups.


If you had read this whole thread, or at least retained what you had read, you would know that I was responding to a comment by ignorant ape when I wrote about that NASA had not predicted the event. Pease think about the context in which anything is written. Read ignorant ape's post on this thread which was posted on 6-1-2007 at 5:05 pm and you will understand the context in which I was commenting.


Also, the thing that de-orbited and burned up was a Soyuz-U... there were 8 other Soyuz-U's that de-orbited last year alone... none of those made the news either. Many man made objects burn up in the atmosphere every year. It rarely makes the news. Why should this event be any different?


Of course there have been many other Soyuz spent rockets which have re-entered our atmosphere which have not been reported. So what? This was not a Russian Soyuz according to the Russians. They should know better than anyone else if it was one of their own rockets. But this is a fact, so don't let it get in the way of your beliefs.



And if it has been predicted and published then it must have been considered news worthy, contrary to what you have indicated in the above quote.


Again, just because it's published on the web, doesn't mean it's necessarily news worthy.


Again, this was a reply to ignorant ape who claimed that the re-entry had been predicted. Man I hate having to remind people of material that they should already be aware of. Please re-read the first page of this thread so you will not make comments that should already have been answered in previous posts.



But of course it never was predicted nor published in any major media channel because they did not know about it. Neither NASA or NORAD is going to admit that though, because it makes them look rather lagging in their awareness of what is going on in our air-space.
Instead they will probably try to downplay their oversight by claiming, as you suggested, that they knew about it but didn't consider it newsworthy.
Yeah. Sure.


The Space Surveillance Network (SSN) tracks everything that's 10cm in size and larger thats up there. I highly doubt they would have missed a scheduled and well publicized rocket launch. They were no doubt tracking it from launch.


Your doubts are not enough to convince me. I prefer the facts and the fact is that these objects were not a Soyuz. But if you prefer to base your beliefs on your subjective doubts rather than objective facts then that is your privelege. But then you will be less informed about what is occurring in the objective world.



[edit on 8-1-2007 by SkyWay]


jra

posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by SkyWay
If you had read this whole thread, or at least retained what you had read, you would know that I was responding to a comment by ignorant ape when I wrote about that NASA had not predicted the event. Pease think about the context in which anything is written. Read ignorant ape's post on this thread which was posted on 6-1-2007 at 5:05 pm and you will understand the context in which I was commenting.


I am well of aware of what IA said and that you were replying to him. And i'm saying that it isn't NASA's job to report everything relating to space. There are other organizations for that. Ok?


This was not a Russian Soyuz according to the Russians. They should know better than anyone else if it was one of their own rockets. But this is a fact, so don't let it get in the way of your beliefs.


Re-read the article. They said:


The rocket's pieces that allegedly fell on U.S. territory cannot be parts of Russia's Fregat upper stage that placed France's COROT satellite into orbit on December 27, Panarin said.


All they are saying is that it's not the Fregat upper stage of the rocket. The Fregat is is basically a small fourth stage added to the Soyuz rocket. It's what COROT was attached to. This part fell into the ocean the same day as the launch according to them. Also note that the Russians say this.


"We do not rule out that pieces of the upper stage of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle might have been registered in the atmosphere over U.S. territory.


The upper stage he's referring to would probably be the third stage of the rocket which would have been left drifting in low orbit till it slowly got pulled back down into the atmosphere.

And did you also no notice what the Russians said in regards to space junk?


There is nothing extraordinary about space junk, including spent rocket stages and spent satellites, falling on Earth, Panarin said.

"Dozens of thousands of space junk objects remain in orbit around Earth. Specialists are monitoring them. Some of them burn up in the atmosphere or fall on Earth every day," he said.

The media buzz surrounding the situation with the Soyuz-2 rocket is unjustified, he added.


And I agree. Nothing extraordinary at all.


Your doubts are not enough to convince me. I prefer the facts and the fact is that these objects were not a Soyuz. But if you prefer to base your beliefs on your subjective doubts rather than objective facts then that is your privelege. But then you will be less informed about what is occurring in the objective world.


Just because you believe it's not a Soyuz, doesn't make it so. I'm basing my belief of the information available to me. That information says it's a Soyuz. And that's a fact. But believe what ever you want to believe.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by SkyWay
If you had read this whole thread, or at least retained what you had read, you would know that I was responding to a comment by ignorant ape when I wrote about that NASA had not predicted the event. Pease think about the context in which anything is written. Read ignorant ape's post on this thread which was posted on 6-1-2007 at 5:05 pm and you will understand the context in which I was commenting.


I am well of aware of what IA said and that you were replying to him. And i'm saying that it isn't NASA's job to report everything relating to space. There are other organizations for that. Ok?


Well then tell it to ignorant ape, not to me. I was saying specifically that NASA did not predict the event...not that it was their job to do so. Although they are the ones who normally tell us, when they know ahead of time, if anything is going to be burning up in our atmosphere. They almost always notify the public when to look for meteors or comets or debris from satellites or other re-entering manmade debris that will be putting on a light show.




The rocket's pieces that allegedly fell on U.S. territory cannot be parts of Russia's Fregat upper stage that placed France's COROT satellite into orbit on December 27, Panarin said.


All they are saying is that it's not the Fregat upper stage of the rocket. The Fregat is is basically a small fourth stage added to the Soyuz rocket. It's what COROT was attached to. This part fell into the ocean the same day as the launch according to them. Also note that the Russians say this.


"We do not rule out that pieces of the upper stage of the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle might have been registered in the atmosphere over U.S. territory.


The upper stage he's referring to would probably be the third stage of the rocket which would have been left drifting in low orbit till it slowly got pulled back down into the atmosphere.


Here is what they said:
"Specialists of the Lavochkin research and development center, where the Fregat upper stage was manufactured, said that they know the area where Fregat was dumped for certain. It was dumped into the Pacific Ocean on December 27,"

So the parts were dumped into the Pacific Ocean. That is a pretty clear and definitive statement.


And did you also no notice what the Russians said in regards to space junk?


There is nothing extraordinary about space junk, including spent rocket stages and spent satellites, falling on Earth, Panarin said.

"Dozens of thousands of space junk objects remain in orbit around Earth. Specialists are monitoring them. Some of them burn up in the atmosphere or fall on Earth every day," he said.

The media buzz surrounding the situation with the Soyuz-2 rocket is unjustified, he added.


And I agree. Nothing extraordinary at all.


Then why the "media buzz"? Actually, a thing can be extraordinary in the U.S. which may not be considered extraordinary in Russia. There are events happening all over the world which are extraordinary in those areas where they happen and not in others.

Furthermore, these objects were spectacular! Much more so than other objects, such as comets and meteor showers, which are often trumpeted extraordinary celestial shows by NASA, but which are not nearly as awsome as the sight of those objects which were seen over Colorado. So, if some pale tiny specks of comets or meteors are considered special by agencies such as NASA, don't try to tell me that this cluster of blazing objects were not an extraordinary display! And I think if you asked the guys at NASA and NORAD they too would admit that it was a spectacular sight to behold! Now, be honest, even you must admit it was an awsome sight, eh?




Your doubts are not enough to convince me. I prefer the facts and the fact is that these objects were not a Soyuz. But if you prefer to base your beliefs on your subjective doubts rather than objective facts then that is your privelege. But then you will be less informed about what is occurring in the objective world.


Just because you believe it's not a Soyuz, doesn't make it so. I'm basing my belief of the information available to me. That information says it's a Soyuz. And that's a fact. But believe what ever you want to believe.


It's not a matter of what I believe! It's right there in black and white. Just read:

"Specialists of the Lavochkin research and development center, where the Fregat upper stage was manufactured, said that they know the area where Fregat was dumped for certain. It was dumped into the Pacific Ocean on December 27,"


[edit on 8-1-2007 by SkyWay]


jra

posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by SkyWay
Here is what they said:
"Specialists of the Lavochkin research and development center, where the Fregat upper stage was manufactured, said that they know the area where Fregat was dumped for certain. It was dumped into the Pacific Ocean on December 27,"


Emphasis mine.

That's what I said. Did you even read my post? The Fregat, the 4th stage of the rocket, was dumped into the ocean. There is still the 3rd stage of the rocket, that's what I believe and what I think the Russians believe would have burned up over the US.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Interesting debate going on here.


I have no more info to add because both of you dig it up before i can get to post. I'm still on the fence about what i think it might have been.



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by jra
. There is still the 3rd stage of the rocket, that's what I believe and what I think the Russians believe would have burned up over the US.


You're grasping at straws. Just because the Russians say that they "do not rule out the possibility" does not mean that "the Russians believe" it would have burned up over the U.S., as you suggest.



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