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race of the ancient egyptians still on debate?

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posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf
A COMMON ignorant post.


PARDON ME?

Where the bloody hell are the mods on this forum?



I will delete my post, as it was inappropriate.




posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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I am fully aware of the different genetic types of Africa thank you.

I am also aware that one day POOF there where Arabs created in the Euphrates valey and POOF white man was manifested in Scandinavia and POOF theres a China man and POOF theres a black man in the Congo.

Get what I mean? Races evolve.. we where all once most likely black, then as we move we adapt. 4,000 years ago is not how long we have been around my friend, we are millions of years old, there has been no significant evolution in 4,000 years..

So.. races have primarily been where they are today as they where 4,000 years ago ... Arabs already lived in the Nile, in the Euphrates.. this is not a new thing.



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:30 PM
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OK folks, chill out. The only thing this board really asks of its members is they be civil towards one another. You can debate in as much depth as you like but you cannot attack one another.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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Personally I believe that the closest the Egyptians were to a specific 'race' would be either mediterranean/arabic. But in reality I think that ancient Egyptians were more of a mutiracial society rather than strictly black/arabic etc.

But why does it matter what race they were? So what if they were black/white/asian/elves etc? What is the 'race' of the ancient Egyptians going to prove? That whatever race they were (if they were largely one race) is smarter/more advanced/culturally superior to other races?

Also any scientific discoveries on the race of the ancient Egyptians aren't going to change the views of the hardened black supremacists. Much like the fact that the earliest humans originated in Africa is ignored by white supremacists in favour of a mythical Atlantis any discoveries will not alter the viewpoints of most black supremacists.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am fully aware of the different genetic types of Africa thank you.

I am also aware that one day POOF there where Arabs created in the Euphrates valey and POOF white man was manifested in Scandinavia and POOF theres a China man and POOF theres a black man in the Congo.

Get what I mean? Races evolve.. we where all once most likely black, then as we move we adapt. 4,000 years ago is not how long we have been around my friend, we are millions of years old, there has been no significant evolution in 4,000 years..

So.. races have primarily been where they are today as they where 4,000 years ago ... Arabs already lived in the Nile, in the Euphrates.. this is not a new thing.


"arabs" did not originate from the euphrates...they came from south arabia. In fact, much of the "arab" world is actually arabised. The levant, and north africa were their own people who basically adopted arab culture and call themselves "arab" because of that.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 06:10 PM
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clearly nurf you have a racist agenda
you came here promoting an afrocentric egyptian forum and now you are attempting to rewrite history
you can't deny the existence of the Semna Stelae of Senusret III (He ruled from 1878 BC to 1839 BC)
which is worded as follows



1 Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khekuer, who is given life forever 2 and ever; in order to prevent that any Negro should cross it, by water or 3 by land, with a ship, (or) any herds 4 of the Negroes; except a Negro who shall come to do trading in Iken, 5 or with a commission. Every good thing shall be done with them, but without allowing 6 a ship of the Negroes to pass Heh, going downstream, forever.

oh dear
negros not allowed in Egypt
who'd have thought it
and then theres the stelae from year 16 of king Sesostris (III) (do you even know who he was ?)


3 Year 16, third month of the second season, (occurred) his majesty's making the southern boundary as far as Heh (HH). 4 I have made my boundary beyond (that) of my fathers; I have 5 increased that which was bequeathed to me.
I am a king who speaks and executes; that which my heart conceives 6 is that which comes to pass by my hand; (one who is) eager to possess and [powerful (?)] to 7 [/// (?)]; not allowing a matter to sleep in his heart ...... 8 ...... [attacking him who attacks (?)], silent in a matter, or 9 answering a matter according to that which is in it; since, if one is silent after attack, it strengthens 10 the heart of the enemy. Valiance is eagerness, cowardice is to slink back; he is truly craven 11 who is repelled upon his border; since the Negro hearkens [to (?)] the [/// (?)] of the mouth; 12 it is answering him which drives him back; when one is eager against him, he turns his back; when one slinks back, he begins to be eager. 13 But they are not a people of might, they are poor and broken in heart. 14 My majesty has seen them; it is not an untruth.

repelling negros on the border
seems he didnt like them either
want me to go back to show you how all the egyptian gods have faetures that are non african in origin
or how most of the early culture was in fact based on a sumerian model
or how the stars that they valued weren't actually visible below the equator

clearly your knowledge of Egypt has been warped by you looking for evidence to fulfill your black agenda
thats may make you happy
but it means unfortunately that anyone who actually understand egyptian culture can make you look very sill very quickly
suggest in future that if you want to discuss the glorious black history of egyptian civilisation you keep it on your afrocentric egyptian history forum where it belongs
on here you're just coming over like a racist I'm afraid
and you probably know
thats never a good thing




posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk

clearly your knowledge of Egypt has been warped by you looking for evidence to fulfill your black agenda
thats may make you happy
but it means unfortunately that anyone who actually understand egyptian culture can make you look very sill very quickly
suggest in future that if you want to discuss the glorious black history of egyptian civilisation you keep it on your afrocentric egyptian history forum where it belongs
on here you're just coming over like a racist I'm afraid
and you probably know
thats never a good thing





translation of your post (or rant): i'm attacking you, as i have no decent response to your post...

figures...already told you i'm not an afrocentric, but hey whatever makes you happy.

That seems to be an accusation for calling anything black eh?


Tell me Marduk have you seen my face to call me black? How do you know i'm not a knowledgable arab, caucasian, asian etc.? Both moderators of the egyptian forum are aware of ancient egypt's black identity and are from egypt(how conveniant)...are they "blacks" now, because of that?

History has already been rewriten by eurocentrics...genetics and rational are simply fighting back.


As for the rest of your incoherent post...irrelevent.


PS: I will not call you nutcase as you have pointed that out yourself...further clarification would be a waste of time. Get out of your ignorance...ASAP

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trimmed big quote

[edit on 11/1/07 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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As far as I see..

You offered nothing but to insult people when they responded with inteligent material. You offer no response your self.

It is a fact you have a black agenda, which is not how history is studied. When you get over your self, then people will wish to carry on an intelectual conversation with you..



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
As far as I see..

You offered nothing but to insult people when they responded with inteligent material. You offer no response your self.

It is a fact you have a black agenda, which is not how history is studied. When you get over your self, then people will wish to carry on an intelectual conversation with you..


intellectual conversation? You apparently aren't capable of intellectual conversation if you bitch every time you can't offer anything but ignorant outdated views of ancient egypt...

I do not wish to "discuss" with you and marduk as you guys apparently have no open mind, and cannot see what's rational, or just plain nonsense.

It is i who is aware of both sides of the story...you are not, yet you hold on to it, despite its flaws.

Since when did i *incorrectly* label a civilization? I do not see anywhere a claim that the greeks were black africans, or that the incas were from some negritic africans who came to the americas, via spaceship.

It seems i have made a wrongful mistake in apologizing for my so called "rude actions" earlier on in this thread. You simply don't deserve them, judging by your biased nature. (and yet you accuse me of being "rude")


PS: it not only helps to read a piece of text, but to understand it.

Why don't you try to get off my case, and stop making this thread personal.






[edit on 11-1-2007 by nur23_you55ouf]

[edit on 11-1-2007 by nur23_you55ouf]

[edit on 11-1-2007 by nur23_you55ouf]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf

You apparently aren't capable of intellectual conversation if you bitch every time you can't offer anything but ignorant outdated views of ancient egypt...

I do not wish to "discuss" with you and marduk as you guys apparently have no open mind, and cannot see what's rational, or just plain nonsense.

(and)

Why don't you try to get off my case, and stop making this thread personal.




Those are some fairly personal statements in themselves.

Final warning for all... civil discourse is not just requested, but required.

edited for bolding



[edit on 11/1/07 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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nur23_you55ouf
you joined the afrocentric egypt forum in september and you are claiming you fully understand Egyptian culture from that

I've been studying the ancient world for over ten years so you aren't even close

but anyway


Tell me Marduk have you seen my face to call me black


external image
you're not white are you

but that aside
heres the truth for you
not based on what you think a piece of art looks like
but based on genetic studies of the ancient egyptians themselves



A 2006 bioanthropological study on the dental morphology of ancient Egyptians shows dental traits most characteristic of indigenous North Africans and to a lesser extent Near Eastern populations. The study also establishes biological continuity from the predynastic to the post-pharaonic periods. Among the samples included is skeletal material from the Hawara tombs of Fayum, which was found to most closely resemble the Badarian series of the predynastic

oooh look
not black
black near eastern hybrids
theres a shock to your system eh
and the Badarian culture was also a mixture of what is described as Tropical afrcians and people of the levant
so they are multiracial

this evidence being genetic and in many cases being conducted by egyptian archaeologists is a little beyond your claims of white racism don't you think
so Egypt wasn't a black culture
and it wasn't a white culture
like everyones been telling you
it was both

still
I always thought Egypt was crap compared to Sumer anyway


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit to reduce image size

[edit on 11/1/07 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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I saw an NYPD detective on the History Channel (or Discovery) try to reconstruct a few Egyptian faces based on their skulls (and his own experience). He concluded that a major ancient Egyptian city would probably look, demographically, a lot like NYC. To me, that meant majority minority (ie, some shade of brown).

Also, I want to second whoever said black people don't all look alike: we range from Beyonce to Whoopi, both of whom self-identify as black.



[edit on 11-1-2007 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
this evidence being genetic and in many cases being conducted by egyptian archaeologists is a little beyond your claims of white racism don't you think
so Egypt wasn't a black culture
and it wasn't a white culture
like everyones been telling you
it was both



keyword *indeginous* africans.


Are the inhabitants of the levant indeginous Africans? Also a mixture implies a former people that had no mixture with other populations.

^ goes to show you have lost the most simple concepts of common sense, and are instead engulfed in a dental study's words rather, than the context it's placed in. Your contradictions are getting old now.

PS: oooooo my what an excellent study, as it properly refutes *all* the evidence of a black egypt. Nice try but apparently, those ten years were devoted to studying the wrong aspect of egyptian history.

By that logic marduk, racist europeans from not too long ago have more credibility than the scientists of this century...



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 12:19 AM
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"Pakistani! "

"east african or southern arabian ."

"sudan,eritrea,ethopia,dijuboti,somalia,yemen or mybe you are a suadi arabian . "

"i was being stupid cause MK TOMA SAID PAKISTAN ,,thats why i said malaysia ,,thats why..i feel ur on the edge of afica algerian,so if me wrong ,oh well hands up."


^ It seems i am a multitude of nationalities...

except "white"
:


[edit on 12-1-2007 by nur23_you55ouf]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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ah see thats twice i haven't been offensive to you and you've replied with insults
so i guess its my turn now so i will not reply with insults because a forum moderator has already asked that no one post any
did you miss that
i will just reply with the truth as I have in every post so far
you basically are a bad loser
you have ignored any piece of evidence that doesnt fit your personal racist agenda and have claimed that people who present such evidence are racists themselves
thats called transference
en.wikipedia.org...
you realise that no one believes a word you're saying so you have turned militant
thats not because of your skin colour
its because of part of your character which is encoded in your genes
its called ignorance
your ignorance is a flag for all to see
we're not here to pander to that
we're here to deny it
perhaps you should have checked the forum motto before you posted this erroneous information which because of your own personal inadequacies you think is true



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 11:12 AM
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Let's look at the facts, eh?

Egyptians may be one "race" but they certainly weren't a single skin color. The evidence lies in the shape of the skulls as well as in paintings and inscriptions left by the people of that time.

We can also see skin color type (generally) by the skin and hair of the mummies as well as their features.

When we look at the rulers of Egypt, we see Nubians, Greeks, Lybians, Romans, and Persians, each of whom brought in people (and opened trade to their home regions so that there was a free exchange of people (marriages) and goods:
en.wikipedia.org...

Royal artwork on temples and monuments shows people of all different skin colors working together -- so it's not simply artistic convention that the people are painted with reddish skin. Egypt's cities were one of the major trading arenas of the ancient world, so there were many intermarriages and love affairs that resulted in the population being a rainbow of human skin shades.

This is confirmed by skull material as well as art and sculpture from sources other than royal tombs -- and is also confirmed by the mummies themselves.

So... to call the Egyptians any "race" really is a disservice. Race is pretty meaningless when discussing these people.

In fact, I don't know of its being a matter of debate anywhere in the scholarly world. Any student of Egypt is aware of how many skin colors there are shown in the old paintings and in old references. In non-academic circles where people haven't looked at much of the old material, it may be some sort of issue. One would hope that they would just go ask a scholar who's studied the material and who can guide them to good example sof this... but I suppose that doesn't occur to many.



A very nice (and archaeologically detailed) discussion of Nubia's history is here:
www.thenubian.net...

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Byrd]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Byrd ... Thanks for, as usual, spreading some intelligent light on the subject. I disassociated myself, early on, when I realized that I was bringing a joking, semi-serious take to a slap down.

On the other hand, I still think Beyonce's Mom is purty.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
ah see thats twice i haven't been offensive to you and you've replied with insults
so i guess its my turn now so i will not reply with insults because a forum moderator has already asked that no one post any
did you miss that
i will just reply with the truth as I have in every post so far
you basically are a bad loser
you have ignored any piece of evidence that doesnt fit your personal racist agenda and have claimed that people who present such evidence are racists themselves
thats called transference
en.wikipedia.org...
you realise that no one believes a word you're saying so you have turned militant
thats not because of your skin colour
its because of part of your character which is encoded in your genes
its called ignorance
your ignorance is a flag for all to see
we're not here to pander to that
we're here to deny it
perhaps you should have checked the forum motto before you posted this erroneous information which because of your own personal inadequacies you think is true


Type in a somewhat more decent matter, and i may not interpret your posts negatively, which could be the reason my posts are "rude"...it's simply a cause and effect relationship.

^ there is no emotion in posts which is also the case...

I believe in a mixed egypt marduk, and there is NO WAY i'm denying the presence of other populations. I also believe there was more a homogenously dark population in the beginning. (the civilization lasted for thousands of years...i would think there were mixed peoples inhabiting the land far longer than the original egyptians)

^no one believes in a completely black egypt throughout the whole period or even a fraction of it, as they weren't an isolated civilization. Interactions occured from all sides. (not only the mediterrenean or middle east, but east africa)



In fact the reason why i "urged" you to post in that forum is exactly because of one of your statements. To put it frankly, i don't know as much as those guys in the forum and you'll find the arguements there more intrigueing. If you disagree with what is said there, take action instead of calling me an afronut..

Who are you to say which members "believe" what i'm posting? Cut the ethos crap, and realize that getting the support from a majority by hollow words does not make the topic at hand true.

Is posting UFO sightings erroneous information? Deny ignorance is the motto meaning you must deny your ignorance and be open minded when provided relevant info. I may have been stubborn in some portions of this thred but it's because i have seen way too much to immediately believe a couple of statues.

You seem to be in a fantasy world where all egyptologists are seeking the truth. Well that truth is being looked for in many ways, including painting depictions of ancient egyptians a more *suitable* color. (of course not all, or most do this, but it exists)



Overall i appreciate the emotional critique Dr. Phil.











[edit on 12-1-2007 by nur23_you55ouf]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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Who were the original egyptians?

Just answer me this.

Also, anyone aware of the "four races of the world" painting?



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf
Based on ridiculously abundant evidence, i've come to the conclusion they were very much a black people.



Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf
I believe in a mixed egypt marduk


changed your mind then have you ?


Who were the original egyptians?

did you miss it the last time
the Badarians were the orignal egyptians
they were a mixed race people (african and levant)




[edit on 12-1-2007 by Marduk]



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