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Armed Mexican Force overwhelms US Soldiers

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posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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This last Tuesday, Mexican nationals armed with guns challenged a group of U.S. Army National Guard troops at a border control station forcing the National Guard troops to abandon their post and seek safe refuge away from their duty station. While the Mexican nationals remain unidentified, speculation remains as to what their intent was in seeking to breach the U.S. Border while being heavily armed, are they Mexican Soldiers, Coyotes, Drug Runners or Terrorists?
 



Guardsmen Overrun at the Border
A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was overrun Wednesday night along Arizona's border with Mexico.

According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen attacked the site in the state's West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is manned by National Guardsmen. Those guardsmen were forced to retreat.

The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired. However, no Guardsmen were injured in the incident.

The Border Patrol says the incident occurred somewhere along the 120 mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a drug corridor. Last year, 124-thousand pounds of illegal drugs were confiscated in this area.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


What are armed individual from Mexico doing wandering on U.S.A. territory? Obviously Mexico does not care, but then everything is legal in Mexico if you have the dinero for 'the bite'. But U.S. Army National Guards abandonig their Post? That is disgusting and shows cowardice in the face of the enemy, now we know why the borders are so wide open.

The final supporting link is to a story from last year that shows that the U.S. Government (bush) is doing nothing concrete about stopping illegal immigrants. When they refuse to enforce our laws and refuse to listen to us, they are no longer our government.

Related News Links:
www.azcentral.com
www.azcentral.com
www.azcentral.com
www.worldnetdaily.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Illegal Migrants Will Now Use High Tech GPS Devices Thanks To The Mexican Government

[edit on 5-1-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]



apc

posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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I think we need to wait until the story unfolds a bit more before we start calling the guardsmen cowards.

For all we know they were being attacked by a forty foot flame throwing automated MexiMonster. Should they stand there watching their bullets bounce off the sombrero yielding beast or should they run for their lives?

[edit on 5-1-2007 by apc]



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
But U.S. Army National Guards abandonig their Post? That is disgusting and shows cowardice in the face of the enemy, now we know why the borders are so wide open.


ya know, i may get warned for this but sometimes you have to take a stand on principles and i dont know how to do it politely. so i wont worry about polite.

having said that... *snip* do you realize that the natl guard troops are there in SUPPORT of the border patrol? where were they in all of this? do you realize that the national guard troops are likely UNARMED or if they are carrying their weapons are likely NOT issued ammunition becuase if they were and they did open/return fire that the whole of the news media would have likely vilified them and accused them of some bullcrap about opening up on mexican nationals adn made a race thing out of it?

what would you have them do, point thier fingers at them and go "bang'? had they been armed adn had stood their ground im sure a lot of you ignorant punks would be accusing them of being gung ho and firing on innocents or accusing the govt of overstepping their bounds and ignorning posse comatatus by using soldiers on us soil. no one would be praising them for guarding the border, which by the way so many people are crying becuase the govt isnt doing a good enough job.

try learning something about how things work before you post garbage about the "cowardice" of these men. you obviously have no clue and should really go buy one before they run out and youre stuck going through life with your head up your tail.

/rant

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 1/5/2007 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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While I do not trust the WND link, you did post other much more credible sources.....


Very interesting....

More interesting though............... an attack on our borders and our government has done? Has commented on? Mexican government has said?

Refuse the North American Union at all cost, force if necessary.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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Guys mexican federalies and nationals have been shooting at our border patrol for a few decades now, sometimes border patrol have had bullets pierce thier windshields 20 miles inside the US border by Mexican military who are protecting drug runners, coyotes and smugglers.

We could easily kick their asses back to the stone age for this I mean a bunch of teenagers with 22 rifles could probably defeat the entire mexican military and shoot down their airforce but unfortunatly everytime a officer fires back at these mexican nationals in self defense they get fired or worse, accused of attempted murder. A marine contingent was patroling on excersices near the US mexican border a few years back in S. california, and shot a mexican national who was brandishing a rifle and sneaking around inside US borders. Marines got in trouble even though they were defending themselves. So now nobody is allowed to act on this issue.

Why I don't know. It sucks and I would call it a cause for war with mexico, cause If american nationals and govt military were found 20 miles inside of mexico's border with US approval and knowledge and they were shooting at mexican cops with intent to kill while protecting US drug lords then yeah mexico would call it posturing that could lead to war. So why don't we just bitch slap that ungrateful backstabbing country back into it's place already.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 08:05 PM
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The thread title is misleading. The attackers also retreated, and no guardsmen were injured.

I think we should look into the policy of the limits of the NG to initiate or return fire.

This topic is also being covered here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 09:11 PM
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i understand from a friend of mine who is NG, that the rules of engagement are very strict on the border. he wouldnt tell me what those rules are, as they are classified, but from what i gathered from the conversation, they arent allowed to return fire unless they are trapped and must do so in order to save their own lives. as far as i'm concerned, it is criminal for our government to put our troops in harms way without the freedom to do the job.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 09:22 PM
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Just so you all know if the National Guard retreated it is because they are there to support the Border Patrol and aren't armed or allowed to return fire. There is no cowardice in retreating rather then staying and being a target. Should be interesting to see how this all plays out.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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The armed confrontation occurred around 11 p.m. Wednesday near Sasabe , about a quarter-mile north of the border. A team of four or five Guard troops, armed with M-16s , were watching for border crossers at an observation post when they spotted four men carrying what appeared to be rifles, Martinez said.

As the men came closer, the Guard troops left their post and called for the Border Patrol.

"In order to not be detected, they moved to a safer location," Martinez said. "That's exactly what we want them to do.

"They're armed for their protection. Once they are afraid for their lives, they can defend themselves.

"That was not the case."


This story is slightly overblown but it is still serious. I agree that we have no business putting the military on the border with nothing to do and no way to do it. Although there was no confrontation as far as I can tell from the recent report, despite that it's being called one in the story (i dont see it as a confrontation when you see them first and leave immediately), there dang well could have been.

We are talking about armed men crossing our border at will. I consider this a wholly separate issue from immigration. I keep a pretty moderate stance on immigration, but this country cannot have armed foreigners coming and going as they please.

Governor Napolitano should back up her declaration of a state of emergency by deploying additional national guard troops with a mandate to engage and capture any armed crossings and to search illegal crossings for smuggled contraband. I realize she won't because it would be spun two ways- either she's sending troops after immigrants or she's playing catch and release- but it would still be the right thing to do. If she doesn't believe the national guard should handle illegals, fine, but she does have the authority to use state resources to combat the trafficking of arms and drugs and the presence of armed criminal elements in public.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop

What are armed individual from Mexico doing wandering on U.S.A. territory? Obviously Mexico does not care, but then everything is legal in Mexico if you have the dinero for 'the bite'. But U.S. Army National Guards abandonig their Post? That is disgusting and shows cowardice in the face of the enemy, now we know why the borders are so wide open.



That's a bit off. Calling them cowards without even knowing the in's and out's. even if they were armed, they could have been outnumbered or in a bad tactical position. I shouldn't imagine there is great cover in the desert.

US (or any other forces for that matter) retreat or "fall back" all the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not cowardice, it's sound tactical sense if the situation demands it.

Remember, this isn't WW1 where women give you white feathers and you get shot for taking a step backwards.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 12:16 AM
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They aren't cowards- they were ordered to act in a cowardly fashion. Our leaders are cowards.

5 national guardsmen with M-16s saw 4 men with what appeared to be rifles and withdrew per their orders and informed the border patrol. The border patrol said they did exactly what they were supposed to do about the situation.

Kinda sad, but not the guardsmen's fault.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
We are talking about armed men crossing our border at will. I consider this a wholly separate issue from immigration. I keep a pretty moderate stance on immigration, but this country cannot have armed foreigners coming and going as they please.


You're right, it's a different ballgame entirely. This is an issue of National Security. [sarcasm alert]OH NO!! I said it!! Those two ever-so-feared words!!! Someone come quick!!! *crickets* No one??!?!? REALLY???!?!?!?!!?!!!!![/sarcasm alert]

In all seriousness though, this is an issue that had better get some airtime on televised news broadcasts, as this is something that every citizen living in a border state should hear. If they tried this once, they'll try it again. And, having seen the reacton they got before, they'll prolly be more emboldened next time. I just pray that the next time, we stand our ground with the proper forces. It's OUR country, and it's OUR duty to rpotect it, from ANYONE, foreign or otherwise.

TheBorg

P.S. I never understood why we don't shoot people as they cross the border illegally. We do have that right as a sovereign nation, after all. If we did that about 80 times, then I'd lay a wager that ALL illegal immigration would cease overnight. Just my thoughts.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by apc
I think we need to wait until the story unfolds a bit more before we start calling the guardsmen cowards.

For all we know they were being attacked by a forty foot flame throwing automated MexiMonster. Should they stand there watching their bullets bounce off the sombrero yielding beast or should they run for their lives?


OMG that is so funny! Thing squirts habanaro sauce at them and plays lowrider music.

I agree we cannot call those guy cowards you never know what they wer facing.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by TheBorg
P.S. I never understood why we don't shoot people as they cross the border illegally.


Maybe because you have no compasion for life?


apc

posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Well, there's two intertwined reasons.

First, they don't pick up their own trash anyway, so things at the border would start to get pretty stinky.

Second, we would be forced to take the time to clean up the trash. I don't know about you, but I don't want them stealing any more of my tax dollars than they already are.

In all seriousness, this just helps narrow the focus of incompetence. The Guard is doing their job. The Border Patrol are the ones who look the other way.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Since the National Guard hands are tied in this situation, there's another solution that doesn't involve the Federal govt. : Arizona Rangers. When bandito incursions were common in Texas during the Mexican Revolution from 1914 to 1933, the Texas National Guard did just that : Guard the home front. If there was any shooting to be done, the Texas Rangers would take care of it. And like in the 1800's, the border didn't mean a thing to them when in hot pursuit of Mexican Bandito's and Comancheros. Many of these banditos during the 1920's and early 30's many of these bandidos were US citizens smuggling booze in from Mexico. If the Feds' won't fix the borders sooner or later the states will. Hell Wilson and Harding covertly approved the actions of the Rangers to give the Fed's cover when dealing with Mexico.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 03:59 PM
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The real story is the writer sitting in his safe little home, behind his safe little keyboard, calling those with the 'Brass' enough to serve cowards....

Whether they retreat or not, they probably wont retreat to his house, so he is safe..


Semper



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
This last Tuesday, Mexican nationals armed with guns challenged a group of U.S. Army National Guard troops at a border control station forcing the National Guard troops to abandon their post and seek safe refuge away from their duty station.

...the U.S. Government (bush) is doing nothing concrete about stopping illegal immigrants. When they refuse to enforce our laws and refuse to listen to us, they are no longer our government.


Those troops were under orders not to engage the enemy.

The chances are high that if American troops had fired on the armed insurgents, who were dressed in camoflage and were carrying rifles, it is likely that it would be the American troops who would be brought up on charges (i.e. disturbing the international flow of commerce, murder, entrapment, etc). Where do you think our congessional leaders get thier coc aine from?

It is common knowledge that the US government has an open border policy with Mexico. In the business section of the local newspaper they tell you how to go about hiring illegal day laborers and just how little to pay them. The socally accepted below minimum, cash (Read un-taxed or undeclared income) price to pay an illegal alien for doing you're dirty work. I guess too many naive homeowners were paying these guys to much money and making it more difficult for professional contractors to get cheap labor.

You would think that these guys were unionized the way they congregate around Home Depot every morning. Lately I've seen them drinking coffee while they wait for thier days employment offers to come in. Just another day at the office.


During the housing boom last year, mortgage brokers were even advertising that you could buy a house with no proof of legal citizenship.
No joke.

The US - Mexico border is the safest route of entry for a foriegn terrorist who is carrying a nuclear, biological or chemical weapon to enter into America. They won't even be challenged by the US military. Of course, there are other ways for terrorists to make safe entry into the US.



"President Bush said Tuesday that he wants more countries in a program that allows foreigners to stay in the USA without visas, despite criticism that the move could open the door to terrorists.

“We want people to come to our country,” Bush said ..."

www.netscape.com... true



[edit on 6-1-2007 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 05:56 PM
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Borg, there are some things that we (meaning the majority in this country) find important and choose to assign a value greater than their obvious policy value. Life is one of them.

Right wrong or indifferent, Americans refuse to trust their government with the right to gun people down. And that's probably a good thing, because who knows where that would lead.

There are plenty of rational options, even if they don't make us feel quite as macho as growling things like, "if I were in charge I'd move all the prisons in America to the border, and if you climbed our border wall, you'd be mobbed and cornholed by insane prisoners right before the guards blew your head off for shotgun practice."

Wouldn't it make just a tad more sense to negotiate (read bribe) Mexico into a deal where we round up the illegal crossers and return them to Mexico where they can serve 30 days community service, thus providing labor to go with American funding on projects that make Mexico more livable, thus deterring illegal immigration in 2 ways? Granted it'd be a hard sell, but if there's anything that has been shown by history, everything in Mexico has a price, especially government.

Doesn't a misdemeanor type penalty make a little more sense than reducing a living person to a rotting corpse for stepping over an invisible line in the dirt!?



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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Why are some here calling these Mexican chaps "insurgents".

There is no insurgency, so hence, there can be no insurgents.

These were probably people traffickers or drug runners. Simple criminals people, not "insurgents" or "terrorists"...



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