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Parents Surgically Keep Their Daughter Child-Size

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posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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.. Who's sister have Mucular Distophy and cannot control herself most of the time ... She goes wild sometimes and it is not even her doing it ... Also, she has some other type of mental diasease that she basically can't understand anything or can't recall anything she has learned ... I am not sure as I am not exaclty a doctor ... anyways ... they have not done anything with her ... as far as try to play god to make her stay small ... but she has started a Greeting Card business wth the help of my best friend ... She draws the greeting cards with a specially equipped mouse that she moves with her NOSE ..... Seeing that and seeing how much she has been able to accomplish in her lifetime ... Let's me know that GOD is GOD ... and Doctors that are TAUGHT by other men to diagnose a certain illness and to prescribe certain drugs to combat that Mental Illness that when they go to school to learn how to prescribe these illnesses they give percentages such as 99% of the time this happens and the person never recovers .. and people write them off ... They forget about that 1% of the time that for all we know the person eats the right type of foods enough that it naturally heals itself and then the doctors call it a Miracle ... If those parents really loved thier child they would be praying for a MIRACLE and my god says that if I have the faith of a Mustard Seed than he will provide those miracles for me ... And he also says if we ask we shall recieve and if we knock the door will be opened. ..................... DOT DOT DOT




posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
she has started a Greeting Card business


And you're making some kind of qualitative comparison of someone who has enough faculties to start a business with someone who will ALWAYS have the faculties of a 3-month-old?




my god says ...


Okay... Here's what their God says:



The God we know wants Ashley to have a good quality of life and wants her parents to be diligent about using every resource at their disposal (including the brains that He endowed them with) to maximize her quality of life.
...
Furthermore, the God we know wants us to actively share our experience and learning with the rest of the world to help all “Pillow Angels” and other special need children in reaping the benefits of the “Ashley Treatment”.
From their Blog


Maybe your God should get in touch with their God and work something out.

And... if a miracle were going to happen, it could still happen, right? I mean, surely, if God is planning a miracle for this child, nothing the parents could do could get in the way of that. God can still work a miracle...

RIGHT???



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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This is like saying ... god set up all that he did ... in the bible such as back in the day when catfish was not to be eaten as well as some other soft bellied fishes .. This was because all of everyones waste was getting dumped into the rivers and streams and basically that was what the catfish was living off of ... He didn't tell them this reason but that is why that he wasn't allowing his disciples to take part in that type of fish ... So it is with other things such as drugs that we do not know exatcly how they work we just know that it stops certain flow of certain chemicals that we can measure ... Or think we can measure when in reality there are probably millions of different chemicals within the ones that we think we are just now discovering that we don't know why they stop producing we could be killing them for all we know ... Anyways ... go start doing '___' ... or some other type of drug ... Go take Xanax for a week str8 and then get off of it and see how you feel ... And see how much more difficult it is to just function and do normal things that you are used to doing ... It isn't about thier god and my god ... It is one god ... the only one that has and ever will be ... and he is not mine ... He calls out to all people ... especially in times of need ... The girl isn't the one I am worried about it is what the mother and father have to live with the rest of thier lifes ... What they did to thier daughter ... Might as well as built them a daughter through CLONING ... Maybe that will make them happier ... and they will be able to take care of her better then .... What happen to COMMON SENSE :????


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
she has started a Greeting Card business


And you're making some kind of qualitative comparison of someone who has enough faculties to start a business with someone who will ALWAYS have the faculties of a 3-month-old?




my god says ...


Okay... Here's what their God says:



The God we know wants Ashley to have a good quality of life and wants her parents to be diligent about using every resource at their disposal (including the brains that He endowed them with) to maximize her quality of life.
...
Furthermore, the God we know wants us to actively share our experience and learning with the rest of the world to help all “Pillow Angels” and other special need children in reaping the benefits of the “Ashley Treatment”.
From their Blog


Maybe your God should get in touch with their God and work something out.

And... if a miracle were going to happen, it could still happen, right? I mean, surely, if God is planning a miracle for this child, nothing the parents could do could get in the way of that. God can still work a miracle...

RIGHT???



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
So it is with other things such as drugs that we do not know exatcly how they work we just know that it stops certain flow of certain chemicals that we can measure ...


Why are you talking about drugs? I'm not aware that Ashley is on drugs. BTW, I totally agree that healthy kids should not be put on mood-altering drugs, but that's not the subject of this thread.



It isn't about thier god and my god ... he is not mine


You're the one that said "My God"... I was only responding to what you said.

And you're not addressing my questions to you at all. Like:

**Do you think God perhaps made a mistake by putting her in their care?
**Is your judgment better than God's?
**If you think God gave her to them, then why don't you trust that he knew the decisions they'd make?

**And... if a miracle were going to happen, it could still happen, right? I mean, surely, if God is planning a miracle for this child, nothing the parents could do could get in the way of that. God can still work a miracle... RIGHT???

And there's no need to quote my entire post. I know you're addressing me.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


Why are you talking about drugs? I'm not aware that Ashley is on drugs. BTW, I totally agree that healthy kids should not be put on mood-altering drugs, but that's not the subject of this thread.

Ashley is on some different type of drugs ... That they have given her to stop her from growing ... and stop her from hitting PUBERTY ... and starting to have her period and what not ... Medicine or drugs whatever you wanna call them ... has/is going to affect the rest of her life ... Especially now ... I used to have some aquaintances (I say aquaintances because they were never thier true selfs around me ... just someone that thier Vicodin/Xanax/Oxycotin's or whatever elese that they took that I was unaware of made them) ... The funny thing is that some of thier friends that have been life long friends that I had met, told me they use to not be like that ... that before around the 6th-8th grade ... But the 3 people that I am refering too one of them had a Grandfather pass away ... one of them her boyfriend at that time lost his legs in an accident .. then 3 months later found out he was cheating on her ... then another his paretns split up ... and all of them either got prescribed to Xanax or other medicines that I call DRUGS that enhance the chemicals in your brain or stop some of the chemicals and now they still are prescribed drugs ...(medicines) that whenever they run out of thier presriptions that make them feel NORMAL ... now they have to purchase them illegally ... and if they can't get them .. They go into depression mode ... such as wanting to commit suicide ... on so on so forth cuttin themselves .. benge Drinking ...





**Do you think God perhaps made a mistake by putting her in their care?

God doesn't make mistakes ... Obviously he is the one that created us with free will. Why you might find yourself asking I sometimes ask myself the same question ? Why would someone who knows all ... create such a selfish ungreatful being ???? I don't know maybe for those that are out there that bless me whenever they speak with me.




**Is your judgment better than God's?

God made me this way and I am in no way better than god in any form or fashion ... God lives with in me ... Or I could go to the holy spirit lives in me ... But then that would need about 3 different seperate threads.



**If you think God gave her to them, then why don't you trust that he knew the decisions they'd make?

Because god made us a people of choice. and FREEWILL ... Although he knows what is going to happen as he is god and he is Omnicient and I think it is even more than that ... I think/KNOW that he can do anything ... even bring the dead back to life ... If it is in his will ...



**And... if a miracle were going to happen, it could still happen, right? I mean, surely, if God is planning a miracle for this child, nothing the parents could do could get in the way of that. God can still work a miracle... RIGHT???


And the answer to this question is ... God gave us freewill god never wanted that child to go through those things .. and I am not sure how that works with her soul other than I know if she never knew the difference between wrong and right she will auto. get into heaven which also needs another thread ... at least on it ... I recomend that if something happens to your child go before god ... and do all the things he says for you to do .... in the bible read over Proverbs and his promises to you ... and you will know you NEVER have to look to man for any answers ... I am blessed ....



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Ashley is on some different type of drugs ...


Ah, I see. Hormones. Nothing at all like the mood altering drugs you have spoken of.



Although he knows what is going to happen as he is god and he is Omnicient


Then he knew what choices these parents would make.



God never wanted that child to go through those things


So you know what God wants? You know the mind of God?


If he knew what was going to happen as you stated above, then why did he give them this child if he didn't want those things to happen? You seem to be contradicting yourself as regards God's desires...

[edit on 11-1-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Ashley is on some different type of drugs ...


Ah, I see. Hormones. Nothing at all like the mood altering drugs you have spoken of.



Although he knows what is going to happen as he is god and he is Omnicient


Then he knew what choices these parents would make.
HE ALSO KNEW THAT PEOPLE WOULD ULTIMATELY CHOSE TO NOT SERVE HIM AND WOULD GO TO HELL ... BUT THAT DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM CREATING THE WHOLE UNIVERSE DID IT !?!??


God never wanted that child to go through those things


So you know what God wants? You know the mind of God?

God will give you incite into what he wants if you read his word and follow it
If he knew what was going to happen as you stated above, then why did he give them this child if he didn't want those things to happen? You seem to be contradicting yourself as regards God's desires...
God lets humans contradict him ... why I don't know ... Guess freedom of choice that he gave us plays more of a role than most of us can see
[edit on 11-1-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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What a difficult situation.

My sister was in a similar state all of her life. She never learned to feed herself, she was never potty trained, she never spoke a single word in her entire life. She died at the age of 21. It's hard to describe what it is like to live with a baby that occupies the body of a 21 year old.

It was tough to find diapers that fit - at least it was back in 70's. It was tough to find a car seat she could fit in - a seat belt wouldn't work in her situation.

Still, I can't support what these parents are doing to keep their child small.

I can't understand why the girl is kept alive at all.

My sister could never tell us if she had a headache or something similar. Can you imagine never being able to get basic pain relief? Could you let your child live an entire life filled with this type of hardship? ...and that's only the tip of the iceburg.

I spent my entire young life asking myself, "What is the right thing to do for a child like this? What would I do if I were the parent? What would I want done if I were disabled with no hope of a life of quality?"

After putting twenty years of thought into this, I only have one answer. Euthanasia. Why can't we let a person die? Why can't we end their suffering once and for all?

That probably sounds harsh, but I think it is the only merciful thing to do. Why has this girl been kept alive? What purpose does her life serve? She suffers through medical procedures, her family suffers the heartbreak inherent in the situation. Resources are expended, emotions are drained, and physical pain is inevitable for this girl. The only ones benefiting from this are a surgical staff and a pharmaceutical company.

When my baby sister died, it was the most gut wrenching experience of my life. If a soul can be torn in half, mine was. Still, a part of me rejoiced for her. I looked down at her laying in her casket and saw her face in a relaxed position for the first time ever. Her suffering was over.

No matter what the afterlife really is, it has got to be infinitely better than what she experienced in life. My sister (and my entire family) has already been to hell. People aren't meant to live like that. It just isn't decent.

[edit on 1/11/07 by wellwhatnow]



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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I found an article today that I thought I've add here for everybody.

Disability Community Decries 'Ashley treatment'

(CNN) -- David is a young man with severe cerebral palsy. He can't walk, he can't talk, he can't sit up by himself, but he can blog. This week, David blogged about Ashley.

"Ashley's parents have committed the ultimate betrayal," he writes. "They have treated their daughter as less than human, not worthy of dignity.... What strikes me about 'the Ashley treatment' and has brought me to tears is that the very people in all of society whom this child should trust have betrayed her."



"My son is 11....doesn't walk, doesn't talk, etc., etc." writes one mom. "He's hard to carry. He's not going to get easier to carry.... And still, I don't understand. I don't understand removing healthy tissue and functioning organs.... Growing is not a sin or a disease -- it's what kids' bodies do, even disabled bodies."

"Don't get me wrong -- caring for a 5 feet something, 110-plus pound adult with physical disabilities is no walk in the park," blogs another mom. "I've got the trashed lumbar discs to prove that. But I am truly just sick to my stomach to imagine that it's acceptable medical practice in any case to surgically stunt a child's growth.... Using their logic, why not just perform quadruple amputations? I mean, really, she's not going to use her arms and legs."


I started a thread on this a while back, so I've already stated how I feel about this. I do believe the parents have the best intentions in mind by having this done to their daughter.

I just thought I'd add this article to the thread that also explains how a handicapped person feels after finding out what is being done to Ashley.



[edit on 12/1/07 by Keyhole]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by Keyhole
I do believe the parents have the best intentions in mind by having this done to their daughter.

I just thought I'd add this article to the thread that also explains how a handicapped person feels after finding out what is being done to Ashley.
[edit on 12/1/07 by Keyhole]


Thanks for the wonderful Artical! As for your point of how someone with a disability feels about this, do my points of why I've been Arguing this was wrong count? I only ask, because I have cerebral palsy.

Yes that's right, I do have a disability! I also work with children that have disabilities.

I'm not trying to make any personal attacks, but frankly I'm insaulted and disgusted that among a group of people that chapions the ideas of enlightenment and tollerance, that anyone could be cold and insensitive enough to suggest that Any human child could be to severly disabled to have feeling. Even a child with the intellectual abilities of a new born has FEELINGS!

It's hurtful that someone could see Ashly as they would see a stuff toy, and assume that going though this isn't tramatic and painful for HER!


Sorry to rant, but I feel hurt! I can't understand that ATS, of all communities, could have people that don't see value and dignaity in the life of a child, just because she is disable. Come on, Ashly is a Human Being, not a medical experiment!

Untill Now, I've tried to keep my personal oppinoins on the side line! If you want them, HERE they Are: I don't care how severly disabled someone is, NO ONE should ever have the right to make a living medical experiment of them! They used this poor girl to try out medical sicence without knowing what the long term effect might be. That's not medicine for healing, that's a science experiment!


Tim

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Ghost01]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Euthanasia. Why can't we let a person die?


I totally agree that euthanasia should be an option. But ultimately, since parents make all decisions for a baby, I think their decision should be respected.



Why has this girl been kept alive? What purpose does her life serve?


This is what we may never know. Her life may teach people the wonder of love or mercy or compassion. Who knows what people will take away from their interactions with her? There may be an incredible purpose to her life. She may reach thousands of people through her parents' blog and news stories. Her story may assure other parents that they're doing the right thing when it comes to their own children. The spirit or soul of Ashley may have decided to live in such a body for the specific purpose of reaching certain people.

We may never know the purpose of this child's life, but I think it's totally unfair to assume that there isn't one.



When my baby sister died, it was the most gut wrenching experience of my life.


I am so very sorry for your loss...



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There may be an incredible purpose to her life.


You are right. There may be a purpose that is beyond our capability to grasp. It's not that I automatically assume that her life serves no purpose, rather, I am just jaded enough by my own experience to feel that this girl deserves a chance at true peace and I believe she will not have it in life.

We make science experiments of human souls and that, in my opinion, is not a decent purpose.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I am so very sorry for your loss...


Thank you BH. As I said though, I know that she is not suffering and I find great peace in that.

May we all find it someday.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
What a difficult situation.

My sister was in a similar state all of her life. She never learned to feed herself, she was never potty trained, she never spoke a single word in her entire life. She died at the age of 21. It's hard to describe what it is like to live with a baby that occupies the body of a 21 year old.

It was tough to find diapers that fit - at least it was back in 70's. It was tough to find a car seat she could fit in - a seat belt wouldn't work in her situation.

Still, I can't support what these parents are doing to keep their child small.

I can't understand why the girl is kept alive at all.

My sister could never tell us if she had a headache or something similar. Can you imagine never being able to get basic pain relief? Could you let your child live an entire life filled with this type of hardship? ...and that's only the tip of the iceburg.

I spent my entire young life asking myself, "What is the right thing to do for a child like this? What would I do if I were the parent? What would I want done if I were disabled with no hope of a life of quality?"

After putting twenty years of thought into this, I only have one answer. Euthanasia. Why can't we let a person die? Why can't we end their suffering once and for all?

That probably sounds harsh, but I think it is the only merciful thing to do. Why has this girl been kept alive? What purpose does her life serve? She suffers through medical procedures, her family suffers the heartbreak inherent in the situation. Resources are expended, emotions are drained, and physical pain is inevitable for this girl. The only ones benefiting from this are a surgical staff and a pharmaceutical company.

When my baby sister died, it was the most gut wrenching experience of my life. If a soul can be torn in half, mine was. Still, a part of me rejoiced for her. I looked down at her laying in her casket and saw her face in a relaxed position for the first time ever. Her suffering was over.

No matter what the afterlife really is, it has got to be infinitely better than what she experienced in life. My sister (and my entire family) has already been to hell. People aren't meant to live like that. It just isn't decent.

[edit on 1/11/07 by wellwhatnow]


Thank you for finally explaining in detail what I have been trying to refer to this whole time I have been in this blog ... My idealogy even go alittle further than that ... But that is because of some other personal things that have happened in my life.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There may be an incredible purpose to her life.


You are right. There may be a purpose that is beyond our capability to grasp. It's not that I automatically assume that her life serves no purpose, rather, I am just jaded enough by my own experience to feel that this girl deserves a chance at true peace and I believe she will not have it in life.



I WOULD EVEN GO AS FAR AS TO SAY ... EVERYTHING HAPPENS UNDER GODS WILL AND YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING HAS A CAUSE AND EFFECT ... People were onto something when they were studying the people as they spoke ... and then somewhere along the way they started trying to play god ... and studing the inside of people and the chemicals that make someone feel a certain way ... God made us ... Do you ever really expect to understand your CREATOR and why he does such things ?? If you do all I have to say is WOW ....

We make science experiments of human souls and that, in my opinion, is not a decent purpose.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I am so very sorry for your loss...


Thank you BH. As I said though, I know that she is not suffering and I find great peace in that.

May we all find it someday.


[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 02:13 PM
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An article in Scientific American has three bioethicists coming down dirmly on the side of the parents.



Their discussion ranged from issues of privacy raised by the media frenzy surrounding this case to the question of whether or not this intervention is a technological fix for a social problem.
...
There are compelling arguments that limiting Ashley's growth is likely to be in her interests, as well as the parents' interests, with low risks.


That's another question I have. What specifically is wrong with what these parents did? What negative effect will this have on Ashley's life? For those of you who oppose it, how do you think this is hurting the child?

And I don't mean emotional responses like "They're playing God and they have no right". I mean how specifically is Ashley going to suffer over and above letting her develop 'normally'.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
An article in Scientific American has three bioethicists coming down dirmly on the side of the parents.



Their discussion ranged from issues of privacy raised by the media frenzy surrounding this case to the question of whether or not this intervention is a technological fix for a social problem.
...
There are compelling arguments that limiting Ashley's growth is likely to be in her interests, as well as the parents' interests, with low risks.


That's another question I have. What specifically is wrong with what these parents did? What negative effect will this have on Ashley's life? For those of you who oppose it, how do you think this is hurting the child?

And I don't mean emotional responses like "They're playing God and they have no right". I mean how specifically is Ashley going to suffer over and above letting her develop 'normally'.







Well I have a good answer for this ... and didn't want to say this ... Because I hate to answer a question with a question ... But whenever you answer my question you shall have your answer to yours ... What is it going to hurt her if we KILL her ??? Just take a knife to her throat ??? She can't express those emotions is what you are telling me if I am reading you correctly but why would that be so CRUEL and unjust ????

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 03:23 PM
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I refuse to quote the portion of the above post that I am referring to, but I believe it to be quite clear.

The efforts the parents have made are to save Ashley's life, and allow them to provide the proper care. What you have mentioned is murder. Whether the victim is physically or mentally handicap, the act of taking their life is murder. I am slightly confused to why you would go into some of the graphic detail you have.

As BH has mentioned, how has any of this "directly" influenced Ashley's life in a negative manner?

Seems that everything that has been done so far has been to help her get through each day.

The assumption that we all have religious beliefs and feel there is something more for us after this life time, is unfounded. Some of us believe there is something there for us, others do not. It is quite possible that the parents do not hold a strong religious belief, and believe the hand Ashley has been dealt is the best she or they will receive. Sometimes you need to play with the hand you have been dealt.

I believe the parents are doing quite well with what they have.

I wish to reiterate, again, the question BH has brought up.

What have the parents done to negatively influence their daughter's life?

What aspect of Ashley's life, is worse than it would of been, if the parents had not made the choices they have?



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by chissler

What have the parents done to negatively influence their daughter's life?
OK sorry almost forgot to answer your question .. I am sorry you guys can't read a story and sum it all up to what I am trying to point out ... Let me HELP YOU ... HER PARENTS ARE GIVING HER NO CHANCE OF EVER GETTING WELL !!!! INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR THE POSITIVE SCIENCE THAT WOULD BE LOOKING INTO HER BRAIN USING DRUGS NOT APPROVED YET THAT MAY END HER LIFE TOMORROW BUT HAS A SLIGHT CHANCE OF GIVING HER ALITTLE MORE BRAIN POWER ... They choosee to just GIVE UP ... BEING LAZY and the worst parents I have ever in my life possibly believed possible.


What aspect of Ashley's life, is worse than it would of been, if the parents had not made the choices they have?



What happens when ashley's parents .... Are unable to care for her anymore ?? nd the life that she has grown accustom to disappears ? Then what will happen can they pay someone to love them as much as they are loving them ?? At least they made her alot easier to care for ... Right ?? This is rhetorical ... cause in my life ... I would never give up hope that something may happen that may cause scientist to be able to change things that have happened. In Stem Cell research they are finding ways to reverse many things ... My cousin was born with out site and each year it gets worse ... But here lately they have come up with ways to improve almost every single type of diasease that have to do with the eyes .. But not his . yet ... Should I just tell him to Cut his losses and Put a blind fold on ??? And learn how to be BLIND because that is what is coming for him or should I tell him strive to see everything that you can see when you are able to see ... Then when the time comes for something else to take place we will handle that then ??? That is what Ashley's parents are doing to her to me ... They aren't even giving her the time to grow up ... and become whatever miracle baby that she could possibly become ... They basically lost thier faith in her overcoming any adversary ... That is like telling someone they can't do SOMETHING ... TRY TELLING YOUR KID THAT THEY CAN'T DO SOMETHING ... See how they respond ... And if you don't believe in your kid .. What good are you !?!?!

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by Deus_Brandon]



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
if I am reading you correctly


I seriously doubt that you are. You seem highly agitated with me simply because we have a difference of opinion.

I have already answered your question. I said I wish euthanasia were an option for parents like these. Not slitting the child's throat (a little dramatic and emotional, don't you think?) but death with dignity for the parents who wouldn't want to put their child through what they consider to be a life of suffering.

Now, do you mind answering my question with an actual answer instead of answering it with a question?



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