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Murdered Black Entertainers: No Justice

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posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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This is less of a racism matter and more of a social ineptness to even care about one's own community.

I've seen a lot of different opinions and views on this kind of matter and the biggest thing I can come up with that shows this is when the parts of the African American community demand monetary reparations for the enslavement of their so called "ancestors" when really they're family line doesn't even trace back to the slaves and the ones who did have family lines in slavery have been given some form of reparation by the government.

As if to say "We're black, and blacks were slaves so you owe us money even though our family was never even enslaved".

It is not hard for the Black community to stand up and say "no, we will do this, we will do that" and make a difference. I'm sure it's been done. There are many successful black figures, even though there aren't as much as some would like there to be; there are still some examples set.

The white community is just as guilty of all of this as the black community is, so I really don't think it's a matter of racism and I'm not saying that it's the Black communities' fault for the position they're in either, although blaming it on racism isn't always correct.

Things to blame it on:

Unacceptable Police Codes and Standards(not the cops themselves, but the standards they are set by)

And that's all I can think of at the moment.

Make a difference is all that matters. Just as the white community can, so can the Black. I know many capable African Americans and they are just as smart and capable as me, or any other caucasian. I guess it all comes down to the situation, environment, and in the end, just plain luck. It can work for all people, no matter who they are.

Shattered OUT...




posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn
... Come on they have security cameras in the studio that he was shot at.....they have the killer probly on tape for christ sakes...you telling me they can't pull something together 5 years later? since 02? Yep...sounds to me like those pigs need to shove another dounught in they mouth..cause they certainly aren't doing any REAL work.


You'd be surprised at how many security cameras are either dummy cameras, or the tape does not get loaded because someone dosen't want something recorded, or the tape has been used so much, because the company is too cheap to buy a new tape each month, that there is no image but a messed up smear.

I've heard people scream about terrorists and 9/11, but when you tell them they need a new tape, they go bat-doo-doo insane about costs.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Tupac and Biggie were not really gangsters, it was just an act. Using your logic, it would be okay to kill Arnold Schwartzeneger or Bruce Willis because they played characters who "lived by the sword."


That's what i'm trying to say. yes there was an element of shady deals that went down...but in hollywood, what shady deals don't go down? just because someone did not live the best doesn't mean that they should be ignored once they die.

i belive it's racism and incompetence on the police's part. Judging from the majority of the replies i've seen...it's no wonder why the killings haven't been solved. It's quite obvious that most people here share the same views as the cops. "well they shouldn't have talked so much smack or they shouldn't have lived that way". Granted that point is kind of valid, but everyone is missing the true point.

The point is that it's supposed to be the police's job to investigate these things. it's their duty to find who commited these crimes and bring them to justice. But with lazzy @$$ attitudes like the ones we are seeing in some of these posts...is exactly why there has not been any productive ground in the murder cases.

And also to address this horendously wrong and racist attitude that the music fuels the violence...is simply wrong. The reason they make so many songs about violence and commiting crimes is because that's what they see every day. They come from a town where they system has failed them. See to understand rap music you have to understand the group from which they came.

Tupac Shakurs mom was a member of the black panthers. Comming up tupac experienced racism..especially from law enforcement. When he decided to write songs, he wrote about the real stuff he saw every day. The media was actually the ones that made up the whole east coast west coast beef. It was a publicity stunt gone horribly wrong...because they didn't know the real level of animosity between those 2 groups. Yes gangs were involved..but the media played on that and people got hurt.

Their music spawned from being treated badly by society. Unfortunatley it got glorified and with that glorification came violence. Take the song "F the police" for example..that song was written because they saw innocent black kids getting beat down by the cops every day. It wasn't because they were just some ignorant fools trying to make a buck. It was a real stance about their circumstance.

Most white folks don't know the real reason that music was created. In a way it was lashing out against white society after years of being oppressed. Judging from the comments i've been seeing i think they had a good reason to do so..because obviously nothing has really changed. Yeah you wont tar and feather us anymore..but you dont' really give a crap what happens to us.

And yes there WERE security cameras at least for jam master jays shooting. Tupac was shot on the vegas strip. Come on if we can spend dollars looking at gas station cameras for 9/11 can't we at least look at some hotel security camera footage for another murder?

And granted yes people might be scared to come forward..but that's where the POLICE are supposed to come in. They are the ones with the authority, so therefore they should look at forensic evidence. The problem is they would rather write traffic tickets and bust stoned teenagers for minor amounts of drugs, becuase that's where the real money is. There's not much money in solving a black mans murder..even if he was famous, so lets go give out some more speeding tickets. That's the way they feel.

I strongly belive it is a lack of interest on the police departments behalf. It's fuled by racism, and money. They don't really wanna help some black folks..and if there's no money in it for them, then they have less of a reason to give a crap.

lets just pretend for a minute that the police stopped raiding every inner city kid who had weed on them. Maybe the blacks would be more willing to help the cops, instead of out to hurt them. Better yet, lets say that the police stopped picking on young black males in general. There are plenty of cases where young black individuals (like myself) have been brutalized by the policed and essentially framed for things that we did not do.

Take away the hatred and fear of the police by the black individual, then you would find that many would not be so angry. Right now it's the blacks against the cops. Like it or not that's how it is. i'm not saying change laws or anything...i'm sayin stop the day to day raid of young black individuals and racial profiling. There's no reason why if i'm in a group with a few other blacks, 5 cops have to run up to us and search us because 1 of them mistook a ciggarette for a joint. Stuff like that happens day in and day out in the black society. Getting searched for no reason is something blacks live with on a day to day basis...even if we are indeed law abiding citizens. So people saying racism is not a factor is completley wrong. Race is the biggest factor, becuase i see plenty of snot nosed white kids runnin around getting DUI's and getting little slaps on the wrist because their parents pay the town to let them off the hook.

So no i have no sympathy for the cops...i expect them to do their real jobs, and stop bsing and get of their lazy fat doughnut eating @$$ and help people. stop wasting tax payers money worrying about what the black guy on the corner has in his pocket, and start spending some of that money to find these murderers. The fact remains...people are getting away with murder. People have killed other people, and have gone free because of what i feel are racist motives..and a general lack of disrespect and uncaring on societys part (as so well illustrated by the responses to this thread). Until most of these whites stop writing these people off as "another dumb dead gangsta" we will never see any progress..not only in these cases, but in society as a whole.

Say all you want about how it was tupacs fault he got shot....but honestly, who's fault is it that there has never been a killer brought to justice for the murder?

Stop blaming the witnessess (some of which have come forward) and start blaming the police for not doing their job.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn
Attitudes like yours are the exact reason law enforcement does nothing.


Hey .. I'm being honest. I don't care if angry faux-ganstas get killed. I don't care if white mobsters get killed. I don't care if spanish drug pushers get nailed either. It's not 'an anti-black thing'. It's an 'I don't care because it's one less scumbag dragging society down' thing. I'm not going to sit here and fawn all over these folks when I don't care. I'm being honest.

Oh ... BTW ... How do you know the police aren't doing anything. Not every case is solvable. There are plenty of non-black murders out there that haven't been solved. And there are plenty of non-black murders that have fallen through the cracks from human error on the part of the cops as well.


Law enforcement is filled with racist whites who share the exact views you said.


Dunno' about that. From where I sit I highly doubt that, but ... that's probably a good subject for a thread - racism and law enforcement.


We are tired of seeing our heroes shot to death and seeing the white police force do nothing.


- City cops aren't all white. They are a mixed bunch. (at least out of the deep south they aren't all white). A healthy racial mix ...

- If these angry faux-gangstas are your heroes then there is something wrong in a major way. They rap about wanting to rape and kill. That's not heroic. There are much better black American role models and heroes to choose from. Doctors, astronauts, ... heck .. I LOVE Harold Ford Jr. Plenty of black Americans worthy of admiration and the title 'hero'... but not the faux-ganstas.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Hey .. I'm being honest. I don't care if angry faux-ganstas get killed. I don't care if white mobsters get killed. I don't care if spanish drug pushers get nailed either. It's not 'an anti-black thing'. It's an 'I don't care because it's one less scumbag dragging society down' thing. I'm not going to sit here and fawn all over these folks when I don't care. I'm being honest.

Oh ... BTW ... How do you know the police aren't doing anything. Not every case is solvable. There are plenty of non-black murders out there that haven't been solved. And there are plenty of non-black murders that have fallen through the cracks from human error on the part of the cops as well.

Dunno' about that. From where I sit I highly doubt that, but ... that's probably a good subject for a thread - racism and law enforcement.

- City cops aren't all white. They are a mixed bunch. (at least out of the deep south they aren't all white). A healthy racial mix ...

- If these angry faux-gangstas are your heroes then there is something wrong in a major way. They rap about wanting to rape and kill. That's not heroic. There are much better black American role models and heroes to choose from. Doctors, astronauts, ... heck .. I LOVE Harold Ford Jr. Plenty of black Americans worthy of admiration and the title 'hero'... but not the faux-ganstas.


Can you honestly say that tupac and biggie were out on the street themselves selling drugs at the time of their murder? They might have done some criminal activity before their death, but that was the only life they knew. Considering the fact that most of their friends were dead by 20...tupac and biggie did great for themselves. That's just ignorant to say that they were gangbangers, activley selling drugs and commiting crimes at the time of their death. Jam Master Jay wasn't even like that. He was actually about being positive, so you telling me he's the same as a 2 bit thug?

Granted they can't get every case...but it seems awefully funny to me that 5 of 6 high profile murders go unsolved to this day. I'm sure it's not a coincidence that they were black? I'm just being paranoid as well right?

You don't think there is a vast majority of law enforcement whites that are racist? Lol i guess you must sit with the KKK because i'm telling you from personal experience that they are violently racist. I live in a good area too...mixed pretty well and it's up north so i don't have to worry to much about getting lynched or dragged behind a car like i would in the south. But even here the law enforcement is racist. Tell me why i can get pulled over for speeding 5 miles over the limit, and white kids hold street races yet never really get caught that bad? There's a finite limit to how much you can get away with doing as a black person with the law. That is truth man...while the laws are supposed to be colorblind...a predominatley white police force is bound to have some racists on it.

My goodness rape and murder is all they sing about? My man you are quite uneducated about rap music. The only person i have EVER heard talk about rape in their music is eminem...a white boy. Murder yes i have heard in songs, but the fact that you think all hiphop is about rape and murder really shows your ignorance about the subject.

Let me break it down for you...hip hop was a lyrical movement that started because inner city youths were tired of whites treating them like crap. Quite frankly, they were tired of views like yours. They were tired of the "don't give a crap" treatment of whites towards them. Look at a group from the 70's called The Last Poets. They essentially were some of the first rappers. They spoke about similar treatment of their race by whites of that day.

Hip hop is just a new version of that anger. Instead of talking about daily lynchings, they were talking about police shootings. You might not see them as heroes becuase it's obvious you have no sense of black culture. keep in mind people were still segregated as early as 50 years ago. Now your telling me after centuries of abuse (yes i DO mean slavery...) that the black community is supposed to forgive and forget overnight? espeically when they see shadow racisim on a day to day basis? They were expressing the same anger and angst from being oppressed as many of us feel day to day. You personally might not feel oppressed, but then again you have never had to go to the hospital from police brutality have you? You've never had to be in court and have to fight and fight with the prosecuter to drop a 5 mile an hour speeding ticket..while he waves the kid going 70 in a 40 through the door with a $100 fine?

You might have some good points to make but i feel you are holding your conversation back by not opening yourself up to the reasons behind their anger. It's easy to write them off as angry black thugs. However, do you truley know where their anger comes from? Can you honestly say you've seen the police do nothing while a member of your community is shot and killed? What about police shootings in NYC? how are those justified? Can't you see how a group of white cops shooting a black man 50 times would strike a deep emotion? It's not about being racist...but unfortunatley you are proving the point why blacks are many times angry with whites. Even in 2007 most black individuals belive that whites truley don't care about them. How does it make you feel that you are proving them right, at least on some level? Until whites stop blaming the blacks for being to angry, and honestly look at the reason why they have so much anger...nothing in the world will ever change.

If i may respectfully say you are uneducated as to why these black rappers feel the way they do. If you don't understand why people like Tupac's lyrics would touch a sensitive nerve with a black individual..then i suggjest you research some black history. Research slavery, the civil rights movement, and how Blaxploitation music and movies of the 60's and 70's became the mainstream hip hop and Spike Lee movies we know today. If you honestly want to debate at least try and educate yourselves on simple matters...instead of blindly saying ignorant things like "all they do is sing about rape and murder"



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn


Their music spawned from being treated badly by society. Unfortunatley it got glorified and with that glorification came violence. Take the song "F the police" for example..that song was written because they saw innocent black kids getting beat down by the cops every day. It wasn't because they were just some ignorant fools trying to make a buck. It was a real stance about their circumstance.


Actually "F the Police" by NWA was written after Eazy E and Dr Dre went joyriding shooting people with red paintballs in a paintball gun and after a bunch of cops started chasing them and got them out of the car they were handled roughly.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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This is a racist post started by someone who clearly has racist attitudes.

You've chosen ridiculous comparisons: why not choose black & white rappers, black & white famous actors? Because it doesn't suit your agenda.

No-one is surprised when any rapper is killed as they continually glorify their associations with drugs, crime and guns. Black or white. So many 'gangsta' killings happen it just gets boring - Drive-by fatigue.

If Mel Gibson was gunned down in a posh LA restaurant, the reaction would be exactly the same if it was Denzel Washington in similar circumstances. Actually that's not true, Denzel would be missed.

If you really want something to go on about why not attack the gun & gang culture / 'no witnesses' / respect / cheap life culture that typifies these sad killings rather than the 'white' police force (which is news to me!).

But hey some self-examination rather than tilting at easy targets is sooo difficult isn't it?



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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As the Great Late Tupac Shakur put it, it's time for us to be making some changes.

I see no changes being made, only people whining and dwelling on the past and I don't think it's the whites being the racists here.

There's conflict everywhere else in the world, worse torment and conditions else where and that has occurred in the past, what makes the African American situation special? It's not right what had happened to them, but they're not alone in that boat, all anyone can do at this point is look to the future and make changes.

Get up and help someone and make a change, that's where it's at. To seek justice at this point would be to go on a witch hunt and as the Salem Witch Trials have showed us is that Witch Hunts are about as productive as poop on a stick.

Tupac was right, it is time to start making some changes.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Attitudes like yours are the exact reason law enforcement does nothing.


Hey .. I'm being honest. I don't care if angry faux-ganstas get killed. I don't care if white mobsters get killed. I don't care if spanish drug pushers get nailed either. It's not 'an anti-black thing'. It's an 'I don't care because it's one less scumbag dragging society down' thing. I'm not going to sit here and fawn all over these folks when I don't care. I'm being honest.


I don't think I've ever agreed with FF but in this case I back this statement up 100%. The entire rap culture glorifies guns, berating women and drugs. Just look at the lyrics and videos. If the 'gangsta-lifestyle' (be it blacks, hispanics, whites, whatever) wants to endorse that garbage then suffer the consequences. There are far too many more important things to be worried about than the loss off some low-life, drug related, gangsta touting, toilet stain. Society is better off without them.

brill



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 07:57 PM
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Hey I'm a white dude from the southern part of california and the last time I went to court with a speeding ticket I ended up paying a total of $1,470 in fines to the city and the state.

Almost everybody in the court except for the judge and me weren't white and guess who the judge went the hardest on...me mister whitey.

Also, most of the cops in LA are hispanic, and I see plenty of black officers too, not so many whites.

Whats funny is I know a bunch of kids from actual ghettos in LA. their my friends, and they are black, and they do sit on corners smoking from time to time and guess what. The cops have NEVER F***** with them. And when they get pulled over, even though they can pass for a gang member at first glance, becuase they were respectful and well spoken to the cop, they have NEVER been treated unfairly.

I'm not saying that the cops don't racially profile to a degree, but I am saying that if you look out of place than any cop doing his job right will be naturaly suspicious and question what you are doing.

Also, singing about the violence in your community but not offering an alternative isn't being some philanthropest, it's just called throwing wood into a already burning fire. It's only going to make it worse. And it's pretty unrespectable because these rappers are doing this for their own personal financial gain, and probably knowingly are hurting their communities. So whos hurting who?

Oh and the 'Coast Wars' were fabricated by producers and talent managers to try and breath new life into what was at the time and still is a dying business. The gang members got involved after the fact, cause of word of mouth and cause gang members are stupid and will try and get in on any dirt they can.

Incourage your youth to get education and jobs. It's not just for the white man anymore all cultures and races around the world do it. But nooooo. blame the white devil and appologise for people who were too scared and backboneless to take care of themselves and face their fears like trying to intergrate into society, instead they deal drugs...cause there's no work available for any body who is sincerely trying...yeah right. Anybody I've ever known who tried even under much worse circumstances than growing up poor and in a ghetto and around racists, could and did get legitamant work that didn't destroy their self esteem and didn't involve drugs, gangs, or violence.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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Blacks segragate themselves in inner cities and then say the suburbs are to blame. Then they re-elect corrupt mayors (Washington DC) and still they blame the white people. Look at the pimp of a mayor we have here in Detroit and enough is said.

Denver Broncos player hangs out at the wrong place and white people are to blame.

It always comes back to the white people when the black entertainers get whacked? It's a losing argument. There is no "conspiracy" here. It's the black people killing each other like it was free. It's a plain as black and white...



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by Strangerous[/I]
This is a racist post started by someone who clearly has racist attitudes.

You've chosen ridiculous comparisons: why not choose black & white rappers, black & white famous actors? Because it doesn't suit your agenda.

But hey some self-examination rather than tilting at easy targets is sooo difficult isn't it?


Racist attitudes? Because I’m real about how the police and society is? That’s extremely funny considering if you look at the replies I got most are from semi racist white folks who just wanna turn it around and say it’s the black mans fault, without really trying to understand where they are coming from. It’s truly sad that these kinds of attitudes exists. What I’ve been trying to tell you, is that instead of automatically assuming that there’s no reason for us to be mad anymore, look at your attitudes and see how we would still be mad. I don’t know how you can call me racist when everything you say backs me up almost 100%. I am trying to say that there’s a general feeling of don’t give a crap attitude, and what has a lot of these posts done? People have gone on and on how they feel they shouldn’t care...can’t you see that’s exactly the reason I made this post? Attitudes like the ones I am seeing make it very clear why none of this murders have been solved. A lot of Whites simply don’t care. So who are you to call me a racist when I’m saying that a lot of whites are racist, and all you are doing is proving me right?

Who was the last white rapper you known to have gotten shot and killed? Name one. Vanilla Ice? Eminem? I’m trying really hard but you are totally twisting this into something that it’s not even supposed to be. Agenda? What agenda? Trying to make people aware that the police they love so much still treat minorities as dogs? Yes oh I have such an agenda because I want people to be aware of what still goes on in society.

Look at what some of you people are saying. “Oh they shouldn’t act like that” “Oh well tell the witnesses to come forward” “well blame guns and violence”. Weak points at best. They would be more valid if someone actually stood up and took responsibility for their mentality. It’s not that we blame the whites for everything...but we do blame them for still not giving a damn and treating us like second class citizens in some respects. I seriously think you need to not tell me to do some self examination and look in the mirror before you call me anything. If you looked hard enough, you’d obviously see you have some racism in your bones.


Originally posted by ShatteredSkies[/I]
all anyone can do at this point is look to the future and make changes.


I agree...but the problem is fighting the attitude first. As you can see there hasn't really been any changes in the way a large number of whites view blacks and black culture. Until everyone comes to a middle ground, nothing will change.


Originally posted by Perplexed[/I]
Blacks segragate themselves in inner cities and then say the suburbs are to blame.


wow I saved the best, most ignorant, and racist quote of the day for last.
First let me ask you....are you serious? Was that a serious statement? So what you are saying is that blacks PURPOSELY live in the inner city to avoid whites? You are saying that, instead of trying to get out of the ghetto (which anyone who actually lived in the ghetto will tell you is false. Most people desperately search for a way out) and better their lives, that they CHOOSE to stay in the ghetto of their own free will, JUST TO BE SEPARATED FROM WHITES?? Ladies and gentlemen I give you a prime example of everything that is wrong with society. It’s probably impossible to change this type of attitude because people that feel this way usually will not give up their racist beliefs.

Sir, I almost vomited when I read your comment. It’s sickening that you would actually think that way. It just proves that we haven’t advanced as a civilization. The attitudes are just the same as they are today, as they were 50 years ago...the only difference is you can’t get away with killing as many of us as you could back then. You can get away with killing a few of us off...but to many would cause to much commotion so you keep your racist attitudes and ideas to yourself, and let them out at times like this.

I don't even know what to say right now. After many posts and my failed attempt to try to enlighten some of you..i feel let down. It's pretty heartbreaking to see that in the 21st century many of you still can't make an effort to see it from our perspective. You want to shift every ounce of blame and guilt on us, without really considering WHY we feel the way we do. However it's not my fault. It's obvious that these ideas will not change for the time being.

i'll make this real simple for you. look at some of the attitudes and views presented by some of the whites from this thread. look at them, study them carefully....then think about all the posts i've made and the point of you i have been trying to get some of you to see. Think about all that stuff very long and very hard...and then try and see this point: Blacks are still angry because they feel many whites still don't truley care about them, or respect them. As long as you groups of whites hold these closet case racist ideals and make comments like some of the ones i've seen on this board, YOU will be the ones that drive the wedge between us.

Until you can at least talk with us without blaming us for our problems..and stop running away and saying "stop blaming whitey!" every time we confront you with something we feel that members of your race are doing to us, then there will be no peace..and rappers will continute to be unsolved murders.

Just think about this one last thing. If i showed this thread to a young black male on the street, what do you think his reaction would be? If i go up to an inner city youth and show him comments that have come from YALL mouth...do you think he would like it? Would he want to strive to make a change and talk it out with yall after seeing how you ignore my POV time and time again?...or would he say "**** whitey, they don't care about us anyway!" and go back out and make negtive decisions in life? Sad and wrong as it may be, my answer is that it would probably be the second one.

And you know what, from the looks of it..he's probably right.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn
Even in 2007 most black individuals belive that whites truley don't care about them. How does it make you feel that you are proving them right, at least on some level? Until whites stop blaming the blacks for being to angry, and honestly look at the reason why they have so much anger...nothing in the world will ever change.

If i may respectfully say you are uneducated as to why these black rappers feel the way they do. If you don't understand why people like Tupac's lyrics would touch a sensitive nerve with a black individual..then i suggjest you research some black history... If you honestly want to debate at least try and educate yourselves on simple matters...instead of blindly saying ignorant things like "all they do is sing about rape and murder"


OMG, thank you for saying this!! You are my hero!



You have voted Spawwwn for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


I think that post is worth an entire thread of it's own. I would love to get other members' opinions on every single thing you said.

I can attest to the fact that many, many, many black people feel that whites don't care about us, and, yes, some of the stuff I read here makes that seem, more and more, like a very real possibility.

I never knew so many white people still felt this way, until I came to ATS. Well, I suspected that there were a few hold-outs, but, judging by what I've read here (on ATS), it seems the percentage may be higher than I thought. That is extremely disconcerting. Like, really.

It has always saddened me that the one group of people I expect to be more enlightened simply aren't. I've mentioned it before, but it's one of those insightful comments (I thought:@@
to which no one ever responds.

Oh, and here's a thread, started by INc2006, about Tupac's murder. In the spirit of full disclosure, I posted in it as well.
Impoverished black America: what was tupac?


[edit on 5-1-2007 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn
Racist attitudes? Because I’m real about how the police and society is? That’s extremely funny considering if you look at the replies I got most are from semi racist white folks who just wanna turn it around and say it’s the black mans fault, without really trying to understand where they are coming from. It’s truly sad that these kinds of attitudes exists. What I’ve been trying to tell you, is that instead of automatically assuming that there’s no reason for us to be mad anymore, look at your attitudes and see how we would still be mad. I don’t know how you can call me racist when everything you say backs me up almost 100%. I am trying to say that there’s a general feeling of don’t give a crap attitude, and what has a lot of these posts done? People have gone on and on how they feel they shouldn’t care...can’t you see that’s exactly the reason I made this post? Attitudes like the ones I am seeing make it very clear why none of this murders have been solved. A lot of Whites simply don’t care. So who are you to call me a racist when I’m saying that a lot of whites are racist, and all you are doing is proving me right?

Who was the last white rapper you known to have gotten shot and killed? Name one. Vanilla Ice? Eminem? I’m trying really hard but you are totally twisting this into something that it’s not even supposed to be. Agenda? What agenda? Trying to make people aware that the police they love so much still treat minorities as dogs? Yes oh I have such an agenda because I want people to be aware of what still goes on in society.


Racist attitude? Yes because you automatically assume it's a black & white thing rather than a 'hanging around with crims & gangs' and 'the police' thing. If I was a Police Chief i wouldn't prioritise crimes where all enquiries are met with a shrug and silence - that's just a fact of life.

Semi-racist? I think that's an impossibility - same as half pregnant.

Some replies do have a racist tone but there are also others who see your own posts as racist too. Given the tone of your post I'm not surprised at the reaction you've had from some.

Black people kill black people and it's the fault of whites? don't get that one.

OK on white rappers but why don't you find better examples than the one you cite - 2 people in the same area, same situation, killed, one black one white, give examples detailing the different Police responses and you may get closer to proving your point. Comparing actual events and hypothetical situations will get you nowhere.

FWIW I agree that the US is an inherently racist society but it's a two-way street with bigottry on both sides. I should add the US certainly isn't alone in this regard



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 12:34 AM
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Oprah Wnifrey did a show on 'class' which was quite telling in a number of the things people said ... I believe that some of the things people said were more related to race relations than to pure consumerist/capitalist 'Class', which is really only about how much you have and the wealth you project. A society that concentrates on 'class' in the capitalist fashion will undoubtedly discriminate against those of perceived 'lower class', this is a part of the problem we are discussing in this thread ... many 'upper/middle-class' people do not feel anything toward people of 'lower class' except for them to get out of their sight. This attitude is also known as disenfranchisement.

Real class? I haven't seen many examples of that anywhere, but I do believe that Pres. Johnson's Great Society did alot to push Black Americans into a dusty forgotten corner.

Me - I teach people to fish/farm.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
Oprah Wnifrey did a show on 'class' which was quite telling in a number of the things people said ... I believe that some of the things people said were more related to race relations than to pure consumerist/capitalist 'Class'

I saw the show too, and you're right about the focus on race. Then again, I only caught the last 36 minutes, so I missed the beginning. I gained a whole new respect for her, just for having the show.

You do raise an interesting point, though: Are race and class so closely intertwined in this country that she couldn't talk about one without the other? Or do you think she steered the show that way because of all the flak she's been getting lately about the school in South Africa?



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 01:58 AM
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Well harlem hottie i thank you for your gracious words and your generous vote.
yeah don't be shy invite whoever you'd like to this thread. About time i see at least a couple of posts here that will actually lead somewhere.

let me just handle a little business then i will get back to you.....@strangerous = Don't assume because i am talking about race i automatically have a racist attitude. I'm not a fool. I see every day what i call shadow racism..a form of racism, where you oppress your opponent through less obvious means. I don't think it's a coincedence that the minority population in prison is staggering. I don't think it's a coicedence that racial profiling is a real problem in society. Like i said even 50 years ago people were still segregated. The parents of those times had very racist attitudes that were passed on to their kids. So if a guy is 50 now, and a police cheif..he still might remeber how his dad tought him to hate blacks. That's a hard thing to unlearn. So it's not about having a racist attitude, it's about being realistic. You want me to just up and say this doesn't exist? No that's ignorant and i thought we were here to deny that.

As for the white rappers being killed...that's not my burden. If you want to challenge the points i've made, then the burden is on YOU to come up with examples and show them to me. That's the whole point of rebuttal. If you think i made a point and disaggree, then the burden of proof is on you to show me facts to back your rebuttal up. So find me some articles of white rappers who have been shot and their murders go unsolved..that's not my job..And i never said black people kill black people and it's the white mans fault. even now you are not listening to me. I said that it seems strange that many famous blacks will be murdered...yet their cases remain unsolved.

back @ hottie...like you i didn't quite expect this result from some of the community. yeah i expect it to a degree..but it seemd like there was more doging the issue and trying to undermine the points i am making..or simply twisting or distorting them all together. it's quite funny how some of the silliest subject will be debated for pages..but as soon as we touch a nerve that people are uncomfortable about, people run away and hide.

i think when we talk about race nowadays..the idea is that "well we're not segregated so what does it matter". When you bring up things like these people assume it's just "playing the race card" which is such a cheap way of avoiding the real issue. People run from race talks because they feel it's not important as long as people aren't sitting at the back of the bus. but the fact of the matter is, if these attitudes still exist..there's a problem. Just because we dont' talk about them, doesn't mean they go away. In fact it's almost worsened because eventually some people will be unaware of these facts, and could find themselves in a lot of trouble.

They feel it's just "complaining" because to them..we have as much opportunity as the next person, so why should we be upset? See sometimes it's not just about opportunity..it's about a certain way we see ourselves being treated in the media, or by law enforcement that makes us question if racism is really as dead as people say it is. obvsiously if these people can rise to fame, yes there is opportunity for them. But if they can be brutaly killed and nobody cares because they didn't approve of some aspects of their lifestyle, what is that saying about society? That it's ok to disregard a humans life because you disagree with some of the things they say or do? It's worsened by the fact that some people wont even take the time to consider why those people might be saying some of the things they are saying.

now 2steps brought up a very good point (finally someone did...) could this also be a separation of class that we see? Lets take tupac...he might have been wealthy...but people still associate him with a lower class because that is the audience that identifys with him. so maybe that is why law enforcement doesn't do as much to solve his murder? Not only could it be slightly racist, but i think it's very valid to say that because law enforcement thought he was of a lower class, that they did not need to waste their time solving his murder. There was a post on the 1st page how the LV police dept. was critized for not doing more to solve his murder. Obviously this is not some kind of paranoid delusion..this is a real fact, and hiding from the issue or making up excuses why it doesn't exsist will solve nothing.

Now this is actually getting intriguing...could it be less of a wealthy or maybe even race issue than how the media and people separate themselves into class? maybe race is just a small peice of the puzzle. combined i think that is why we have the lack of effort on all fronts. you take the idea of "well their just lower class people, even if they have a lot of money" and add to the fact that there might be a bit of racism..and we have a very interesting (though rather disturbing) reason why there is not more of an effort to solve these crimes.

as people have expressed in this thread...some simply don't care. Many times i've heard that they were just "wanna be gangstas anyway". that attitude backs up that class point a great deal. Maybe people saying that type of stuff probly would feel threatend, or have anger toward a person they saw as being "gangsta". In truth, most of the hip hop attitude is just a front. It's parshily based in real life, but the truth is that if these rappers really did kill as many people as they say they did, they would possibly be in jail.

So this brings up another peice we can add to this, and that is...does class affect the way law enforcement treats the citizens? Did that perception of class have something to do with these murders not being solved? i don't know i'll have to look at his link and possibly find that show so i can fully understand what he was saying.

but i just wanna say thanks again to both of you for finally pushing this topic forward. maybe now we can finally get somewhere in this discussion instead of having to bicker every minute.

the perception of class and race.....yeah that definatley could be a reason why these murders have not gotten the attention they deserve.

[edit on 5-1-2007 by Spawwwn]



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 02:51 AM
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I understand what the OP is saying, but the fact is a large number of murders in this country go unsolved for years. The following is an article concerning the murder of three young people, two white and one black. DNA has recently tied these two cases together and may suggest a serial killer.



The director of a criminal justice school in Illinois is looking into the possibility that the unsolved 1988 rape and murder of two women in Northern Virginia may be linked to a bisexual man who patronized one of D.C.’s gay nightclubs on O Street, SE.

*snip*

The slayings of the two Northern Virginia women and the boyfriend of one of them have remained unsolved for nearly 17 years and have baffled police in Arlington and Fairfax, who considered them unrelated for more than a decade. It was not until April of 2000 that a DNA test showed that semen found inside the two women came from the same man.

*snip*

The DNA test that matched the semen extracted from Raver’s and Jefferson’s bodies 11 years after the murders shocked investigators from the two police departments, according to a lengthy article about the cases published in the Washington Post Magazine in June 2001. Post reporter Tamara Jones wrote that the DNA match came at a time when scientific advances made forensic DNA technology more readily available for criminal investigations.

It also came at a time when detectives who worked separately on the two cases did not believe they were linked to a serial killer, Jones reported. Raver was white and Jefferson was black, a factor that contradicted the conventional wisdom that serial killers seek out victims of the same race. The fact that Raver was with a boyfriend at the time she was abducted also appeared to fly in the face of the belief by Fairfax police that a serial killer would not seek out a woman accompanied by a man.
www.washblade.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Source


I worked in Fairfax during this time and remember the murder of Veronica Jefferson. I worked for her uncle and ended up buying Veronica’s Camaro. Although I had the interior detailed, some of the fingerprint dust could never be cleaned off. Also, the police kept the gearshift knob and the tire that hit the curb as evidence. I had to buy replacements. I wrote all of that to let you know that the police did their best to recover forensic evidence. The fact that this crime is still unsolved is not through neglect or complacency. It is due to inadequate evidence that would lead to an arrest.

Often two or three crimes are solved in an hour on shows such as CSI. However, it doesn’t happen that way in real life. Even if they have a suspect, without evidence, they are screwed. TV programs show investigators picking up a plethora of evidence, but in real life much of this evidence is benign. Witness statements give investigators a direction to consider for suspects. When the evidence matches the suspect then an arrest is made. This is why witnesses are so important. Evidence is often usless without someone to match to it. The only ones guilty of neglect and complacency are the witnesses who refuse to share information with law enforcement.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 03:33 AM
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Well,
I listened to 50 cents call Oprah an oereo (black on the outside, white on the inside) because her show was for white people.

Ophrah shot him down with the sheer amount of charity work she does for blacks in poor areas, black schooling, black college funding ect ect, and said she had the right to make a show for every body, not just one race.


Now, that comment from 50 cents was very telling - He moans about the ghetto, trying to escape it, trying to get 'respect', and yet because Ophrah has respect, love, and a very kind heart, and white people watch her show she gets slated by him..

Seems the black rappers just have a real bad attitude all round to every thing in life they come into contact with thats not black and ghetto. Sad, but true, as its all they blooming well sing about. ghetto/guns/drugs/respect/hating police and white people. Nice folks, nice.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 03:52 AM
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UPDATE: Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 28, 2005

The story I reported in the above post was apparently solved:



Nearly 17 years after three people were abducted and shot to death in Northern Virginia -- a CIA financial officer behind an Arlington elementary school and two college students in a Reston field -- police believe they have found their killer sitting on death row in a California prison.
Preliminary tests show that DNA taken from convicted killer Alfredo R. Prieto, 39, matches samples from the two crime scenes, according to court records.
www.washingtonpost.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Source

And: Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 29, 2006



A death row prisoner from California was brought to Northern Virginia under heavy security last night to face three capital murder charges in the random shootings 18 years ago of three people in Fairfax and Arlington counties.
Alfredo R. Prieto already faces a death sentence for the 1990 rape and shooting death of a 15-year-old girl in San Bernardino County, Calif. He has been held in San Quentin State Prison since his conviction in 1991.
It wasn't until 2004, however, that Prieto's DNA was entered into a nationwide database. Fairfax County homicide detectives, continuing to work on the December 1988 slayings of Rachael Raver and her boyfriend, Warren H. Fulton, both 22, resubmitted DNA from the crime scene along Hunter Mill Road near Reston.
www.washingtonpost.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Source

And: Edition of Dec. 8, 2006



Judge Dennis J. Smith denied a motion passed by Alfred R. Prieto's attorneys, Peter D. Greenspun and Jonathan Shapiro, Monday to make the death penalty in Prieto's case unconstitutional.
*snip*
Morrogh said later that although it will be a challenge to put the pieces of this case together, the families are available and the Commonwealth would seek the death penalty. Prieto will be back in court Feb. 1 for jury selection and his trial will commence March 19.
observernews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Source

I have lost touch with the Jeffersons over time but I cried when I read this. There is always hope!



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