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To all those hoping for revolution

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posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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One day in the future they may talk about the 'internet revolution' as more than just an online phenomenon...

Websites such as these form communities of people from every realm of life, from political dissidents to journalists, from old disgruntled patriots to teenage sceptics. A google for "911 conspiracy" has over 2,830,000 hits at the time of writing, which proves one thing more than any other. There is a huge interest in such topics. You may even call it a 'market'.

Yet, when mentioned in civil conversation, the phrase 'conspiracy theory' brings an instant 'sigh', a rolling of the eyes, a screwed up face from the majority of people. It is, unfortunately, a pejorative phrase. For most, it brings to mind something like the following:

A 35 yr old, overweight, unemployed asthmatic with thick glasses, sweating at his computer in his parents house, in a filth of empty diet coke cans, pizza boxes, star wars toys and model spaceships hanging from the ceiling. Only occasionaly does he leave for a game of Dungeons and Dragons or the occasional sci-fi convention. Inbetween 30 hour stints of World of Warcraft and early mornings sneakily filing away his pornography collection (onto CD's marked 'Soundcard Drivers'), he looks at grainy photos that to most people look like bad photography but to him represent absolute proof of the existence of Gorbazoid-Epsilons, an opinion that ostracised him from everyone except his online buddies, the D&D crowd and his ever suffering mother.

(Apologies if I just described you, 633k5 FTW!
)

This attitude makes a theorist's life difficult, because the one thing a theorist wants to do more than anything else is "initiate the uninitiated", as once this is done they are no longer outcasts, but prophets! revolutionaries!

The main problem with conspiracy theories was outlined by David Ray Griffin: They tend to be 'cumulative' rather than 'deductive' arguments. That is, they rely on loads of small clues and suggestions that build a bigger picture rather than an X + Y = Z proof.

Most conspiracy pages are rubbish, especially for the uninitiated. Rambling, unreferenced, ugly, hard to navigate pages of semi-literate speculation abound, as do forums full of uninformed ego-stroking. The more of these there are the more the quality information and evidence is diluted in a sea of textual diarrhoea.

Even those who are somewhat versed in conspiracies may still umm and ah over the whole affair while it's key proponents appear to be Jew-haters (Texe Marrs), superpatriotic ranting Christians (Alex Jones), and downright raving lunatics (David "All monarchs are alien-lizards" Icke).

There are a few simple ways to surf this new resurgent wave of interest in conspiracies, and travel through this ocean of lies to an island of enlightenment.

Basically what we need is THE new site, aimed at the uninitiated.
All it will take is a few dedicated, intelligent people, and the old two - time and money.

1) A few dedicated buffs to collate every document, video, audio, quote etc. and build a well structured evidence file with some kind of check/rating system. Links, documentaries and lectures need to be seperate to the evidence.

2) We need to apply the same rigour to conspiracy theories that academics apply to their work. EVERY controversial statement needs to be referenced, hyperlinked superscript is ideal.

3) Snappy. (Al Jones' rambling 178-hour docu's - yawn) less is more.

3) Well designed, easy to navigate, well archived sites. We need to use BBC's showbiz tricks.

4) Deductive, provable arguments (e.g. Operation Northwoods existence) need to take pride of place.

5) Until advertising kicks in, the money for this project can come from passionate wealthy theorists e.g. Charlie Sheen. They're only a phone call away

6) 'Isms' and space lizard kings cause ridicule...

2,830,000 hits? Come on! All hell can't stop us now!!!




posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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One thing I'd like to say, in deference to the dedicated people running this site, is that TinWiki has the potential to be THE site I mentioned above, it just needs to take off and be well edited. The only problem I envision in terms of turning on Joe Public is the risk that the UFO/Paranormal side of things will be a bit too 'Fortean Times' for Mr. Average.

Much love to anyone who took the time to read this. (Even if you're a bored NSA-informant-type - You lot are more paranoid than us!)

Peace.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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You have voted Giordano Bruno for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.


I agree with you on the space lizards, I believe in theories that are based on politics and science not the ramblings of a maniac. Welcome to ATS by the way.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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Cheers for the welcome and nomination, both greatly appreciated.

On your proof comment - Absolutely, my academic background is scientific, so for me unless theres proof there's just speculation. It can be interesting but is ultimately of little value to non-theorists. Some of the things that have hit me the hardest as a recent addition to the ATS ranks include


1) Iraq's WMDs. I don't appreciate being taken for a fool, especially by the people I'm supposed to respect enough to run my country. Made me decide I needed to know some more to avoid it happening again.

2) Op Northwoods - straight from the horses mouth, right there on GWU site. Gave me an insight into the mentality of power. My jaw hit the floor.

3) WTC7 - ummm...no plane? tiny fire? All columns supporting roof break at once? I'm no demo expert but surely Stephen E Jones' paper is the start of a deductive argument for planted explosives and therefore conspiracy. Lack of coverage it got made it stink even more.

4) JFK's speech to US media audience about secret societies. Oh yeah and his death looks pretty suspect!

5) The existence of freemasonry. Lived in UK all my life and (like most people) didn't even notice it until I started reading this stuff. They've got lodges everywhere, and some seriously valuable properties too. Sure, most of them are harmless old guys in silly cloaks, but those that play in the dark tend to have something to hide.
Also - Jones' Bohemian grove video and BBC 'Secret rulers of the world' Bilderberg group episode along with those two videos of Meet the press where Bush & Kerry 'talk' about Skull & Bones. How many secret clubs do these guys want?!??!

Theres probably more I've forgotten about but if I was gonna give someone a 30 minute flyover of my reasoning behind being more open to conspiracy theories thats what I'd cover.

If anyone needs links to any of that stuff listed I'll get them for you, however it's all easily googleable.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Texx Marrs does not hate Jews! He is talking about the synagogue of Satan, those who call themselves Jews but follow the Babylonian Talmud.
Texx Marrs is a pretty huge fan of the number 1 Jew: Jesus Christ.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 12:17 AM
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I haven't seen much of Marrs stuff and I'm sure he isnt an anti-semite. I also know thats the tar brush used to paint black anyone who says anything to do with bankers. The key word in what I said is 'appear':



Even those who are somewhat versed in conspiracies may still umm and ah over the whole affair while it's key proponents appear to be Jew-haters (Texe Marrs), superpatriotic ranting Christians (Alex Jones), and downright raving lunatics (David "All monarchs are alien-lizards" Icke).


What I'm saying is to Mr Average, who knows nothing about CT's, at a 20 second glance:

Al Jones' looks like a ranting hick, David Icke like an insecure self obsessed loser who talks absolute garbage, Texe Marrs like an old guy who rants about Jews.

Thats why Dylan Avery was a breath of fresh air. Nice young voice, cool beat music, modern editing. Its a shame people are such suckers for glossy production but thats the main reason it's done so well, which brings me back to point 3) BBC/FOX news showbiz tactics! We gotta play their game but with real info!

Sorry for the confusion.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Giordano Bruno
A 35 yr old, overweight, unemployed asthmatic with thick glasses, sweating at his computer in his parents house, in a filth of empty diet coke cans, pizza boxes, star wars toys and model spaceships hanging from the ceiling. Only occasionaly does he leave for a game of Dungeons and Dragons or the occasional sci-fi convention. Inbetween 30 hour stints of World of Warcraft and early mornings sneakily filing away his pornography collection (onto CD's marked 'Soundcard Drivers'), he looks at grainy photos that to most people look like bad photography but to him represent absolute proof of the existence of Gorbazoid-Epsilons, an opinion that ostracised him from everyone except his online buddies, the D&D crowd and his ever suffering mother.

space lizard kings cause ridicule...


1) Thats George Lucas, minus the age!

2) In more seriousness though...why automatically close your mind to lizards?
If anything, that is the one thing we have most evidence to support. Histories ridiled with tales across the globe of them.

Evanglelical christians and Judaism believe in them.
Sepherim are the fiery high Lizard angels of the Elohim (gods plural) If a Christian doesnt know this then check with a Rabbi, you will find out quickly enough...
So if your religious, which you may not be, you would have to be consistent.
And if your not religous, again, tales of these lizards throughout history is more consistent than other "UFO" theories etc. It only gets to be more speculative as we are limited to those sources and what people claim, although when you connect the sources some pretty decent arguments can be made as to the place in history...and that will have to suffice until further proof comes.


Peace

dAlen

[edit on 4-1-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 01:40 AM
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For all I know the lizard thing may be true, though I haven't the first idea how to tell the difference between a historical record and a myth. History is littered with all sorts of tales of dragons and monsters, fairies and trolls etc. Many mythical figures are part man part animal, the centaur, minotaur, goatheads and so on. Before HP Lovecraft and his transdimensional beings few of the representations of these mysterious creatures were anything other than a composite of existing species.

What I'm saying is, to believe in anything supernatural/extraterrestrial, be it an alien, a monster, an anthropormorphic figure, a ghost and so on, I'd have to see some more compelling evidence than an account. I always use the example of the disclosure project. Yes it was very intriguing to see a lot of 'suits', particularly the lawyer, speak about the existence of things I have never seen. However it merely opened my mind more to the possibility. It didnt make me believe. I dont often deal in belief. I only have my experiences to draw on, and from them I can derive (what I subjectively call) knowledge and speculation. I have moralistic beliefs (e.g. respect is important) but otherwise I try and avoid axiomatic thinking.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 03:35 AM
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When i figure out how, i'm going to vote you too
(*sigh*, im such a noob)

Anyway, i think you are bang on the money.

I don't like to criticize people for their opinions and beliefs, and i'm not, but to at least get someone to browse over the wealth of information available, we have to leave out the lizard monarchs, the Nazi Bush's, the Aliens are infiltrating world government... at least initially.

For someone completely unread on conspiracy theories, all these things do is cause them to shake their head and press the back button. Whereas, something like video, photo and quote-based evidence of say, a hand in 9/11, or so-in-so assassinated so-in-so starts to get people interested.

Once these interested people start to browse through some of the, for lack of a better term, softcore conspiracy theories, they will make up their own minds whether they are open minded enough to look at the more intense, hardcore ones.

Sorry if that made no sense, im kind of rushing, but i hope you get the idea.
Thanks for the awesome post and i'm all for your idea.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
When i figure out how, i'm going to vote you too
(*sigh*, im such a noob)

Anyway, i think you are bang on the money.

I don't like to criticize people for their opinions and beliefs, and i'm not, but to at least get someone to browse over the wealth of information available, we have to leave out the lizard monarchs, the Nazi Bush's, the Aliens are infiltrating world government... at least initially.

For someone completely unread on conspiracy theories, all these things do is cause them to shake their head and press the back button. Whereas, something like video, photo and quote-based evidence of say, a hand in 9/11, or so-in-so assassinated so-in-so starts to get people interested.

Once these interested people start to browse through some of the, for lack of a better term, softcore conspiracy theories, they will make up their own minds whether they are open minded enough to look at the more intense, hardcore ones.

Sorry if that made no sense, im kind of rushing, but i hope you get the idea.
Thanks for the awesome post and i'm all for your idea.



Well if you want to vote him way above go to below where his avatar is next to his post there is an place where it says way above. Dont worry about being new, it will pass.



posted on Jan, 6 2007 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by Giordano Bruno
One thing I'd like to say, in deference to the dedicated people running this site, is that TinWiki has the potential to be THE site I mentioned above, it just needs to take off and be well edited. The only problem I envision in terms of turning on Joe Public is the risk that the UFO/Paranormal side of things will be a bit too 'Fortean Times' for Mr. Average.

Much love to anyone who took the time to read this. (Even if you're a bored NSA-informant-type - You lot are more paranoid than us!)

Peace.


The funny thing is that the Wikis are basically an offshoot of Wikipedia, a site that most people here seem to believe is disinformation.


But why would ordinary people decide to look at a mega-conspiracy site? Unless there's a lot of advertising on the Internet I doubt there's gonna be an 'internet revolution' as you put it.

Also, though this is a bit paranoid, wouldn't the site eventually become the target of the secret societies/NWO/aliens/Loki etc that it is attempting to expose?



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Chaoticar
The funny thing is that the Wikis are basically an offshoot of Wikipedia, a site that most people here seem to believe is disinformation.



Actually...wikis existed before wikipedia. A company I worked for used a wiki for our intranet long before wikipedia was born.



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Giordano Bruno

A 35 yr old, overweight, unemployed asthmatic with thick glasses, sweating at his computer in his parents house, in a filth of empty diet coke cans, pizza boxes, star wars toys and model spaceships hanging from the ceiling. Only occasionaly does he leave for a game of Dungeons and Dragons or the occasional sci-fi convention. Inbetween 30 hour stints of World of Warcraft and early mornings sneakily filing away his pornography collection (onto CD's marked 'Soundcard Drivers'), he looks at grainy photos that to most people look like bad photography but to him represent absolute proof of the existence of Gorbazoid-Epsilons, an opinion that ostracised him from everyone except his online buddies, the D&D crowd and his ever suffering mother.


You just described 3/4 of the people in the Computer Games Industry!!!



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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mabye call it buy another name since u described how it is engrained in people's minds that a conspiracy means fiction to most

maybe worlds most famous coverup's , cover up theories

i think OP. NORTHWOODS is a great point maker into how our leaders are willing to consider sacrifice innocent lives in violent ways to forward an agenda

i totally agree you have to play there game with the tools used that have been succesful to get an audience's attention

i think an overview of the FED would be very important

as well as these two links

educate-yourself.org...

educate-yourself.org...

because i think it is important to chronicle how far into history this may go so we can understand how we have arrived where we are

also i understand the importance of LIMITING THE CONSPIRACY'S and not involving those things which may very well be true but are 2 old to prove or just to risky in the sense it will cause RIDICULE gotta be smart



[edit on 7-1-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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bruno

what are your thoughts about getting a plan together to get this new site off the ground. i mean before you go about asking for money from charlie sheen, what do u beleive the total cost's would be to start up a site like that. maybe some other members with insight into the dollars and cents could come up with a ball park figure



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 07:00 PM
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Late response, sorry got a lot...blah blah

On wikis, i remember trying to post some stuff on there myself regardin terrorism and they repeatedly wiped it, really beaurocratic and suprisingly quick and ruthless response to a link to a news clip.

fooffstarr, thanks, and I'm glad you agree on my point about the more outlandish subjects.
It's about objective. If youre interested in concealed or new, inspiring knowledge then maybe all the David Icke stuff is valid...maybe...
However, if your objective is to inform people about a single issue then its got to be more than a nod of approval. Depends on what you want to change, if anything!

2stepsfromtop, I know, I'm familiar with a few myself!


And cpdaman, I have no answers to any of your questions, was just throwing out ideas and seeing what they look like when they bounce back. Can't blame a man for dreaming!




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