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the unforgivable sin?

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posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Duzey
As I mentioned earlier, if you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, you cannot commit the unpardonable sin.


um, i may be wrong here
but not believing in something is denying it
is that not true of the word deny

i deny the existence of the holy spirit
i do not believe in the existence of the holy spirit

it's the same


Miscommunication.

You can not turn away or deny someone entry into your house who has yet to come to the door and knock, or for that matter introduce themselves to you.

Madness, i think this is the point some posters/members are trying to make. Although i understand your arguement of denying the existance of it, their is a difference between believing it doesn't exists, and being face to face with it, and still denying that it exists.

You can not be permitted to deny they holy spirit to yourself, or anyone else. Perhaps we are only permitted to deny the holy spirit to the holy spirit.

Can you deny the existance of me?

Yes.

Can you deny the existance of me if i were standing in your front door?

Yes, but this would be the unforgivible sin, if i were the holy spirit.

Why would you be damned?

Because you have made the choice to not believe your own senses, hence you may be considered crazy, because your opinion that i do not exist has trumped your own senses.

In other words you would have made a conscious choice to ignore reality, because your opinion was more important to you than the senses you use to collect information, and experience.

Since you would have made the decision that collecting truthful information and experience through your senses was not as important as accepting reality, you are conditioning yourself to not believe reality, hence the unforgivable sin.

does this help you understand the other posters' points of view?

[edit on 7-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]




posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by clearwater
Doctrine aside, I've always felt the holy ghost to be a feminine aspect of the God-hood...



Actually, from what I've learned, the Holy Spirit is both Feminine and Masculine.

In Hebrew, Binah the Holy Spirit, is Abba and Aima.

Or the androgynous Jehovah-Elohim.

The Female aspect of the Holy Spirit is in the East, the Serpent Kundalini or Shakti.

In Hebrew: Shekinah.

The Male aspect of the Holy Spirit, Abba, is symbolized variously by the Hawk or Eagle.


See this thread as well:

The Serpent and the Dove






Regards



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:07 AM
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When did this become about denying something?

dictionary.reference.com...

Wow, that's rough. I think 99% of us have, at one time or another, said something like "God damn it!"

Blasphemy anyone?

[edit on 9-1-2007 by Herman]



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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from herman's link to the dictionary definition

the 3rd definition


Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.


well, never did that one
i guess i've never committed blasphemy in my life



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:35 PM
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Madness:

You're not listening, or you aren't capable of understanding at this time. Which is it?



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by NowAmFound
Madness:

You're not listening, or you aren't capable of understanding at this time. Which is it?


neither
i'm just being a scamp to provoke further conversation on the topic
i know many of the arguments for and against this doctrine
i want to see as many as possible
which is why i started this thread



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.



Then the answer is simple. God is the God of ALONE.

And God will always be the epitome of ALONE, according to this definition.

Perhaps the TRUEST blasphemy is leaving GOD ALONE.

If God wanted to be ALONE, then why create?


seems logical to me, or perhaps blasphemous to God. If it blasphemous against God to not leave God ALONE, then to hell i am going.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

isn't heresy a form of blashphemy?


Blaspheming the "church" and blaspheming the Holy Spirit are two separate things in my opinion.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
It is taught, even in Buddhism, that Christ can forgive karma.




I didn't know that... Hmmm, I'll have to look into that. I really didn't think Buddhism even spoke of Christ,to be honest.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I didn't know that... Hmmm, I'll have to look into that. I really didn't think Buddhism even spoke of Christ,to be honest.



I've explained it in this very thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...





To elaborate.

The Holy Spirit is actually the Divine Energy of Creation itself, the very Energy that Creates Man: Grand Symbol of the Mysteries; the Sexual Energy.

But the Roman priests and others who have been fooled by them, don't want to you to know that(or don't know it themselves), because they, like most of us, commit sin against the Holy Spirit all the time.


So...



Gnosis:



Matthew 12:31-32

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Luke 12:20

But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.





Buddhism:



SKYDANCER: The Life and Songs of the Lady Yeshe Tsogyel

About the body: do not let it slip into old habits Or you will become like ordinary men and women; With the confidence of the deity, meditate charged with power and inform your focal points of energy as a principal and his circle of deities.

About speech: concentrate upon mantra and energy flows - Without energy control your sexual activity is fornication(sin against the Holy Spirit); Properly execute the exercises of 'drawing up' and 'saturating' and with the nails of your imagination apply an hermetic seal.

About mind: identify the conditioned mind(Mercury) with seed-essence(Semen) itself; if seed-essence(Bodhicitta) is lost(through the orgasm)...

...in actuality The karma of slaying a Buddha is incurred; at all costs gain self-control.





So those ignorant priests who speak against the Sacred Sexual act as if it were something "unclean", "dirty", etc. are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

These ones are found in the Sphere of Lilith.


While those who, although not hating sex, commit the sacrilege of spilling the semen, are in the Sphere of Nahemah.



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 06:49 PM
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just a question about the holy spirit
isn't it the one that impregnanted mary?
if so
why is the other part of the trinity the father?

also, if it did impregnate mary
wasn't that done in her sleep?
and why did god ask for consent afterwards?
isn't that rape?



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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The Immaculate Conception is symbolic of the type of conception that brings Great Bodhisattvas(such as the Master Jesus) into the world:


www.abovetopsecret.com...






Regards



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
just a question about the holy spirit
isn't it the one that impregnanted mary?
if so
why is the other part of the trinity the father?


Father is fat + her. Who was the immaculate conception?



also, if it did impregnate mary
wasn't that done in her sleep?
and why did god ask for consent afterwards?
isn't that rape?


Not necessarily. God was given consent prior to impregnating Mary.

To believe otherwise is to be in denial regarding ... well, regarding everything i guess.

God asked if Mary was ok with it. Mary said yes. God, the spirit, impregnated her. I see a way that there is absolutley no contradiction whatsoever. Do you?



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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from the Gospel of Luke


1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


actually, no consent was asked for...
god just says "you're pregnant now"
and the only other book to mention it, john, doesn't even depict the scene in which mary finds she's pregnant...



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

actually, no consent was asked for...
god just says "you're pregnant now"


So, how does this make sense, without being considered "rape"?



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
So, how does this make sense, without being considered "rape"?


well, it isn't rape in the conventional sense
i guess it is just nothing more than forced impregnation
which is pretty low-down
i wonder what the penalty under american law is for that...



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
The Immaculate Conception is symbolic of the type of conception that brings Great Bodhisattvas(such as the Master Jesus) into the world:



the immaculate conception is the doctrine that mary was conceived without sin
as a suitable vessel for jesus

jesus was not a product of such a conception



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Dear Madness,

I think you are applying too many "physically" based logical variables to an etherially abstract entity.

I know you are thinking right, I'm just trying to re-direct your thought process in a direction that may allow you to percieve a thing in a different manner.

All your life, you have adopted as your own the expectations of others as your expectations. Leave all expectations behind and follow your own reasoning and your own logic.

Disregard what you think, hold on to what you know, and follow your own reasoning and logic.

Is there any possible way that Mary could have been approached by God, who asked, then she accepted and granted her consent, and then God impregnated her without her knowledge of her consent?



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Is there any possible way that Mary could have been approached by God, who asked, then she accepted and granted her consent, and then God impregnated her without her knowledge of her consent?


i understand your initial point
however
i'm just simply stating that the bible says that mary was impregnated with jesus without her consent as food for thought
nothing more
my questions have nothing to do with personal inquiry
i know the possible answers, i'm just bringing up stuff



posted on Jan, 9 2007 @ 09:21 PM
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hmm..

so one could say that these scriptures could've been seen as the Prophet Mohammed the same way as some members, and seen them as 'rejecting the holy ghost or, in his opinion, god's hand once it has been brought into one's life or accepted' ie; acceptance of the religon, the religon of Islam, according to him, the Prophet Mohammed.

So now I see why the Hadith says that people who reject Islam for another faith after having it must be put to death, but it is the 'unforgivable sin' in their opinion, perhaps their interpretation of Isa isn't too different than many's perception of Luke and Matthew.

You know, I thought I was 'damned' too for a second lol, because I tended to rejection the notion of a Trinity, rather 1 monotheistic being entity GOD YHWH Jehova JHVH Allah Hashem etc. But I must admit, after reading some explanations of the holy ghost and how it acts on a person, i must now admit that what you guys call the holy ghost has indeed entered my life and i was introduced to 'it' because i became a believer from a non-believer or more accurately a semi-believer who had very little faith at all. So.. I am not damned because I am sticking to the path that i was introduced or somehow helped onto via the 'Holy Ghost'? Right on, I can understand that thinking.

It's just a shame that in the 11th Century if i would've said that holy ghost didn't actually exist as described by human saints of the past but was rather just God himself acting in some manner that we cannot accurately describe, i'd be denouncing the trinity and declared a heretic. And despite my faith in God i wouldve been killed over it.

I'm sure many went to their deaths all across Europe and the Middle East with little more than their personal faith in God, despite an authority declaring otherwise. They still do today.

I must say, leave these matters of post death damnation to the Judge, for Judgement. And we my friends do not have to be plagued by it's literal meaning and intent through Jesus' mouth.

Fair?



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