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the unforgivable sin?

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posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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jesus seems to be a really nice guy, he'll forgive you for anything
he'll even forgive you for denying his existence

Mark 3:28

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme


WITH 1 EXCEPTION

Mark 3:29


But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.


blasphemy against the holy spirit = eternal damnation?
let us consult the other gospels

Matthew 12:31-32

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Luke 12:20

But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.


hmm
jesus seems quite consistent on this point...
why is it that "blasphemy" against one of the flimsiest doctrines of christianity = eternal damnation?

seems like thought control to me

edit, changed the title

[edit on 1/3/07 by madnessinmysoul]




posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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Anything that is misunderstood usually seems like thought control. The answer, if you understand what you are reading, is quite simple: The Holy Spirit is the member of the Trinity that enters an individual to evoke change and growth toward Christ. This is the mark of accepting salvation. If you blaspheme and deny the Holy Spirit, then, you cannot be saved because you are refusing to accept salvation. If someone is not saved, they are damned.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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but the bible actually states that there is no forgiveness for blasphemy against the holy spirit

NO FORGIVENESS

you're ignoring the explicit nature of the statement and making it seem as if it's some sort of murky statment

it is quite clear
deny the holy spirit and you go to hell no matter who you accept as your personal savior for there is no forgiveness

[edit on 1/3/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:24 PM
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I'm not ignoring anything. I answered your question, maybe you are ignoring my answer? The request for forgiveness leads to salvation. If one rejects salvation, they are back to where they started from--no forgiveness. What don't you understand?



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by NowAmFound
I'm not ignoring anything. I answered your question, maybe you are ignoring my answer? The request for forgiveness leads to salvation. If one rejects salvation, they are back to where they started from--no forgiveness. What don't you understand?


because you're ducking an issue
the fact that conciously denying the holy spirit leads to a person being damned
that means since i have denied the holy spirt, i can't go to heaven
even if i were to accept the path of salvation now, i'm D-A-M-N-E-D



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
..... that means since i have denied the holy spirt, i can't go to heaven
even if i were to accept the path of salvation now, i'm D-A-M-N-E-D


I ask these two questions because i do not believe you have denied the holy spirit. I do not see how it could be possible, if this makes sense.

You denied the holy spirit?

When did it confront you and what were your experiences?



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
You denied the holy spirit?

When did it confront you and what were your experiences?



YES, i have denied the holy spirit
i deny the existence of the holy spirit
^there, i did it again

anyway
it confronted me when i started to deny the divinity of christ
then i questioned the existence of god
then i simply through out the whole of the trinity



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:18 PM
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Oh...I see, I wasn't ducking the issue, you just weren't being clear. This is a good question, and a scary one. But, it should not be feared. I've heard it asked before and heard a fantastic reply. My reply won't be fantastic, but a very condensed form of the explanation I heard.
We are new in God's eyes every moment. If someone has denied the Holy Spirit in the past but does not now and requests forgiveness, they will be forgiven. A person who is actively denying is another story. Many of us do not know the sins we have committed, and so, cannot request forgiveness for all of them! yet, we can be saved. That is why there will be murderers and rapists and all sorts in heaven...what we once were is not what we now are nor forever will be. But, actively denying the Holy Spirit is a little different (as I have explained); that is why it is almost a guarenteed ticket to hell.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


the fact that conciously denying the holy spirit leads to a person being damned
that means since i have denied the holy spirt, i can't go to heaven
even if i were to accept the path of salvation now, i'm D-A-M-N-E-D


Hi madness

Can you honestly say that you have had the Holy Spirit and not think so but know so?.

For someone to deny something they and most consider doesn`t exist is hardly blasphemous imho.

Those however who have received the Holy Spirit and reject it in a blasphemous way is what those verses are referring to,but to add once received its not something i can stretch my imagination to understand who or why anybody would or could.

There are many verses regarding peoples lives where they have fallen away from God and yet the Angels weep with joy when they return,there are verses for Christians to help their brothers and sisters when they turn away or are lost.

If it were simply when ever we fail or get lost or choose our will over Gods that that would constitute blaspheming the Holy Spirit none of us would make it to Heaven,we are continually washed through the blood of the Lamb but we are to endeavor Christs life as Lord and the example of how to live which we all fall short of or some (self included) loose sight of.

I dont know you but i believe your not D-A-M-N-E-D
Hope this has helped in some way.



posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by gps777
... its not something i can stretch my imagination to understand who or why anybody would or could.


this is also how i think. I simply can not fathom how someone who is encountered by the holy ghost can be capable of denying its existance. I don't know how this is possible, nor can i imagine how.


I dont know you but i believe your not D-A-M-N-E-D


I don't believe so either. The holy ghost would not exist unless all souls wished it to, at any time during a soul's development. these are my thoughts.

thanks,
john



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 08:15 AM
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Could it be that Jesus was referring to people who are professing believers but deny the existance of the Spirit? "Oh yea, I believe in God, I go to church and stuff, but I don't believe in all that Holy Spirit nonsense" type-of thing.

That's basically the same as not being 'saved' IMHO. I think we all know avid church-goers who don't have Christian bone in their body *cough*Bush*cough*, but just pay lip-service to the faith.

:bnghd: trying to get them to believe in 'supernatural' stuff like the Holy Spirit.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
consciously denying the holy spirit leads to a person being damned
that means since i have denied the holy spirt, i can't go to heaven
even if i were to accept the path of salvation now, i'm D-A-M-N-E-D


Ha! The simple fact that you're discussing this is proof enough that you haven't committed this sin. The Holy Spirit is the partition of God that convicts you of sin and causes you to realize you are un-saved, or in need of forgiveness. If you had truly committed this sin, which I believe can only be committed by a true believer, you wouldn't even try to accept the path of salvation because you wouldn't be convicted of your sins.

I think this is pretty much what happens to those that accept the Mark of the Beast as mentioned in the book of Revelation. It's not that the act itself is beyond God's boundaries of forgiveness, but the individual chooses a side to stand on and God lets them go. He just quits trying to show them the path and without the Holy Spirit's guidance we're no more able to realize our sinfulness than animals are.

If you're in this thread discussing this subject, or the least bit worried about it, ironically you haven't committed this act. Your functional conscience is proof of that.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by dbates
If you're in this thread discussing this subject, or the least bit worried about it, ironically you haven't committed this act. Your functional conscience is proof of that.


Truly Excellent, and profoundly powerful thoughts.

Very logical arguement.


Thanks for sharing the thoughts dbates.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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If there is an "unforgiveable sin," I would think that it would be suicide.. I don't even know what Blaspheming the "Holy Spirit" is.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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Hey SoT, i could point you to several places where blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is discussed. This is one of the better links IMHO-

www.apologeticspress.org...

The suicide thing, yes Catholic doctrine considers suicide an unpardonable sin. I personally disagree, but I'm not holding my breath until the Pope sees it my way.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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So, basically it is the assertion that Jesus' works were the work of the devil rather than the work of God,yeahright? Okay,I think I understand what Blapheming the "Holy Spirit" means now..

[edit on 4-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why is it that "blasphemy" against one of the flimsiest doctrines of christianity = eternal damnation?


One of the flimsiest doctrines of Christianity? The Holy Spirit? How do you figure?

As to the nature of the unforgivable sin, there are many opinions. Paul Cox is convinced that it is disbelief in the prophetic and in healing that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, due to the context of the statement, he claims. I, however, disagree, because this is just one element of the Holy Spirit. Healing or prophesy are not what define the Holy Spirit, but rather the Holy Spirit defines them.

I have also read that the unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ, God and the Spirit; i.e. rejecting God's plan for salvation. The reasoning behind this is based off of John 14:6 (among other verses), where Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, with no one coming to the Father except through Him. As it is the Holy Spirit that is working on our hearts to point us to Christ, if we die without accepting Him, we have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Though Christ did make it clear that after you die there's no going back, that after you die justice takes precedent over mercy, it makes Christ's statement that you can blaspheme anything but the Holy Spirit very weak. The reason being, it is, ultimately, rejection of Christ that would be unpardonable, and the sin would not be committed until you were actually dead.

Another theory I've heard is that those who believe and fell away from the faith have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I reject this completely because many that have fallen away have come back to Him, even those like madness, spamandham and myself, who are/were vehement detractors of Christ's message. Were this to have been the unforgivable sin, Christ would no longer be standing at the door knocking, He would have been done with us.

Still another theory I've heard is that it is calling the acts of the Holy Spirit evil. This I reject based on Paul's life. He believed the miracles being performed by Christ and Christians were the work of Satan and was seeking to destroy it. Despite that, Christ came to him and revolutionized Paul's life, making him to be possibly the greatest missionary ever to live. There was obviously redemption for Paul.

Probably the best information I ever heard regarding this concept of the unforgivable sin came from a pastor named Gregory Dickow. He essentially said that if you're concerned that you've committed the unforgivable sin, you can rest assured you did not. I would suspect the same is true for those who hope they've committed the unforgivable sin, because there's something in them that tells them that this (Christianity) is right, that it is true, but they don't want to subject themselves to serving anyone, including God, or for some other reason run from Christ, and find comfort in thinking the battle is over for them.

So, quite simply, rest assured that if you're talking on this thread, you've not committed the sin



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 03:02 PM
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yeahright: very interesting. thank you.



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
If you're in this thread discussing this subject, or the least bit worried about it, ironically you haven't committed this act. Your functional conscience is proof of that.


i'm only worried about the contradictions within religion
i'm not worried about myself
just about all the people who actually believe that the bible is infallible when interpreted literally

i'm trying to deny ignorance through a discussion of one of the most ridiculous parts of the bible

speaker, you realize just how ridiculous the claim that there is an unforgivable sin (outside suicide, which is just logical)

JJ, by flimsy i meant that the bible doesn't really outline much about the holy spirit other than it is there and inspires

[edit on 1/4/07 by madnessinmysoul]

[edit on 1/4/07 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Jan, 4 2007 @ 08:19 PM
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Why do you think it is ridiculous that there is an unforgiveable sin?



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