Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Didint anyone see South Park recently? They had a world without religion.
The entire planet was at war over something else.

Sure its just South Park but they make alot of sense. Like the Twilight Zone of our time with big-headed cartoon kids.

Yes, they make sense, if we get rid of religion at this moment. You guys need to realize that current civilization is incapable of destroying religion - or other opressing(sp?) systems- but we would be able the moment humanity raises it´s level of awareness,knowledge and overall intelligence.

Therefore that south park episode is biased against humanity, because after all those years (how many did cartman traveled?), apparently neither biotechnology,nanotechnology or major philosophical movements were able to raise our average intelligence and realize that although religion was a major cause of violence, it wasn´t the only one.

Anyway, the cold war had nothing to with religion. Im pretty sure WWII had nothing to do with religion. Vietnam had nothing to do with religion. WWI had nothing to do with religion. The Civil War had nothing to do with religion. The Crimean Wars had nothing to do with religion.

The only thing I can recall that had anything to do with religion was the Crusades.

Until the Muslims started shouting Holy War on the West that is.

Still, I dont see enough cause to justify the abolishion of religion. Besides, its a fundamental human right to be allowed to worship as you see fit. Unless you guys in the UK have given that up with your knives and guns too.

Well the Vatican supported the Nazis, the fascists in Italy. They made major efforts against communism in Eastern Europe and Latin America (they supported dictatorship all over the continent). So, this are very minor things about catholic roman church around that time, not even mentioning other religions or periods of time, an historian would never finish.

this this guy! glad i gave ya a laugh!

but yeah, i mean.. should aliens make contact one day....

imagine asking him to just 'avoid' that little area of land.. becuase .. well our different beliefs are still causing us to kill each others childeren... but please please, befriend us.. we wont take our petty differences into space!

hell if I was a foreign entity and I came to earth, i wouldnt want to be friend humans....


all we do is find an excuse to murder each other or find a reason to destroy our planet and ignore doing so.

we are destroy this planet so effectivley, we dont deserve to be given the chance to enjoy another!

People shouldn´t be so fast to criticize what these scientists think. Ffor the fact that these people are scientists, they have better tools to understand not only the present but possible futures.

The fact that in next decades humanity will be able to raise its intelligence through technological means is enough to be optimistic about this major achievement in human intellect (ie getting rid of religion). As said in previous post, remember they are talking several years into the future, NOT NOW.

Agit8dChop point about a major war, is certainly valid, but it must be really really major. The shock that it will produce in us humans, witnessing the dead of say 2/3 of humanity, is enough to awake the mind, and open ourselves to new philosophies and so on. This is indeed a fast forward, but it is also extremely unlikely this event would happen.

To finish. I agree with some points made by Neon Haze (although I percieve him as a "victim" of new age movement, maybe incorrect tho), Gear and forestlady.

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Zeratul]

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
If this is the most stupid thing you have ever heard, maybe you should get out more. I can say it because there will always be people that believe in God, regardless of what you believe.

I´m dead serious, and what´s up with "need to get out more"? could comment on that but do not want to get personal

I originally used it meaning the scientists are basing the idea that science will replace religion based on their own personal reasoning. The fact is the rest of the world doesn’t reason the same way, so the outcome will not be what they think it will. In other words they need to get out more and get an idea what other people think before assuming everyone will agree with them. But then you used it to insult me, so I just threw it back at you.

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
Yep, that about sums it up.

so you are an atheist who doesn´t believe in evolution?

No, I just don’t think we will change enough to eliminate religion. Just because we(all of humanity) are more advanced doesn't mean we will abandon religion.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Believing in god doesn´t mean being afraid of the truth. Most religious people aren´t extremists, most are just mental lazy.

You were the one who said it not me. I never said anything about being afraid of the truth, I am just commenting on what people believe.

Originally posted by Zeratul
catholicism isn´t the only religion of the world

Umm.. OK. How does this explain anything?

The Catholic Church during the middle ages saw science as a threat and thought eventually science would prove that God did not exist and so they stifled the scientific revolution. Many of the scientists had to write scientific books to include an explanation that the new discoveries were not against scripture in order to be published. Otherwise they would be tried for heresy. You should take your own advice and do some reading.

My point was that people are still religious even after 400 years, and I don’t think any advancement in science is going to eliminate religion.

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
You are probably basing this on the average intelligence of people in your own country which is a limited amount of the population. I am referring to the whole population of everyone on the planet.

Naaaah I base it on the avg intelligence of the world, which sadly is even less than that of this country.

So you do agree with me. See that wasn’t so hard.

Originally posted by Zeratul
ah so you know about it, then I must remind you that it wont be achieved tomorrow nor in 1 year. It will be a different society by the time this theory arrives, so it will have a much greater and different impact.

They will be lucky to be able to prove M theory or Braids or whichever theory of everything there is. They have not been able to prove string theory for thirty years. So yes I know it will not happen tomorrow.

But I just wonder what other people think the theory of everything will accomplish? Do you think it will prove God does not exist or something and this is why religion will be eliminated? Because, I have not read anything like that. I don’t know why you think it will have any impact at all on for the life of the average person.

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
Again, even though you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing, what do you base this on? Nothing.

uh I base this in the fact that one of the major goals of new technologies (biotechnology,nanotechnology) is the enhace of human intelligence.

I also think there will be advancements in these areas, but they will only be applied to a select few that can afford it. Furthermore, not everyone will want any enhancements. Have you ever read any of the threads on RFID implants and how many people say it is the mark of the beast and they will never allow it?

In the future, I think people will advance, but technology will always advance faster than we like. There will always be people who want to live natural lives, like the Amish for example. My point is these scientists are wrong and religion will never be eliminated.

[edit on 1/4/2007 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by Hal9000

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
If this is the most stupid thing you have ever heard, maybe you should get out more. I can say it because there will always be people that believe in God, regardless of what you believe.

I´m dead serious, and what´s up with "need to get out more"? could comment on that but do not want to get personal

I originally used it meaning the scientists are basing the idea that science will replace religion based on their own personal reasoning. The fact is the rest of the world doesn’t reason the same way, so the outcome will not be what they think it will. In other words they need to get out more and get an idea what other people think before assuming everyone will agree with them. But then you used it to insult me, so I just threw it back at you.

You´re viewing this as if current society will be the same as when the world gets rid of religion.

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
Yep, that about sums it up.

so you are an atheist who doesn´t believe in evolution?

No, I just don’t think we will change enough to eliminate religion. Just because we(all of humanity) are more advanced doesn't mean we will abandon religion.

Alright, the main disagreement is here. I am optimistic, you aren´t. I won´t change your views (not that i was looking to) so its pointless to keep going.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Believing in god doesn´t mean being afraid of the truth. Most religious people aren´t extremists, most are just mental lazy.

You were the one who said it not me. I never said anything about being afraid of the truth, I am just commenting on what people believe.

Ok not fear but lazyness. I go back to the same, my optimism that the future society that witness this major change won´t be as mental lazy as the current one.

Originally posted by Zeratul
catholicism isn´t the only religion of the world

Umm.. OK. How does this explain anything?

The Catholic Church during the middle ages saw science as a threat and thought eventually science would prove that God did not exist and so they stifled the scientific revolution. Many of the scientists had to write scientific books to include an explanation that the new discoveries were not against scripture in order to be published. Otherwise they would be tried for heresy. You should take your own advice and do some reading.

My point was that people are still religious even after 400 years, and I don’t think any advancement in science is going to eliminate religion.

My point was that the religion that "suffered" with this new knowledge was the roman catholic, that it didnt affected other religions but meh

And replying to your last paragraph, you must accept that the belief in god has declined and that science keeps advancing. Again I say that new technilogies will enhace human intelligence, and with this new philosophies, new problems etc

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
You are probably basing this on the average intelligence of people in your own country which is a limited amount of the population. I am referring to the whole population of everyone on the planet.

Naaaah I base it on the avg intelligence of the world, which sadly is even less than that of this country.

So you do agree with me. See that wasn’t so hard.

Originally posted by Zeratul
ah so you know about it, then I must remind you that it wont be achieved tomorrow nor in 1 year. It will be a different society by the time this theory arrives, so it will have a much greater and different impact.

They will be lucky to be able to prove M theory or Braids or whichever theory of everything there is. They have not been able to prove string theory for thirty years. So yes I know it will not happen tomorrow.

But I just wonder what other people think the theory of everything will accomplish? Do you think it will prove God does not exist or something and this is why religion will be eliminated? Because, I have not read anything like that. I don’t know why you think it will have any impact at all on for the life of the average person.

again you are thinking on the average person of current societies. The article talks about decades into the future. As you know society changes, and it is changing faster and faster

Originally posted by Zeratul

Originally posted by Hal9000
Again, even though you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing, what do you base this on? Nothing.

uh I base this in the fact that one of the major goals of new technologies (biotechnology,nanotechnology) is the enhace of human intelligence.

I also think there will be advancements in these areas, but they will only be applied to a select few that can afford it. Furthermore, not everyone will want any enhancements. Have you ever read any of the threads on RFID implants and how many people say it is the mark of the beast and they will never allow it?

In the future, I think people will advance, but technology will always advance faster than we like.

Well they said that computers would only be afforded by universities and institutes etc; and whose to say that capitalism will prevail in the future society this scientists talk about?, the sole fact that capitalism was "created" by a scientific invention, a new one may provoke a new system. And about the people against changes, there will always be there, but not enough to halt progress in my optimistic view.

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Zeratul]

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Zeratul]

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Zeratul]

wtf I messed up quotes and it won´t let me edit

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Zeratul]

It's all well and good to predict that religion is some sort of silly thing for simple people up to the point that you have a religious expericence.

Once you have a religious experience, then you're not going to question the existance of a greater reality.

In my case I indeed had a religious experience. It profoundly changed my view of the world. I went back to school, got a good job, got married, raised a family. In short I became a much better peron than I was.

I would like to mention that when I had my experience, at no time was I guided to join a particular church, or religion. I still distrust most major religious organizations but not necessarily the people that attend those churches and/or organisations.

Originally posted by Zeratul
You´re viewing this as if current society will be the same as when the world gets rid of religion.

So when do you think that will happen?

Society has changed throughout the ages, but human nature has not. I think religion is a basic need due to human nature because we are aware of our own mortality. The only difference that occurs in different societies is what religion is predominant, but it has always been around throughout history.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Alright, the main disagreement is here. I am optimistic, you aren´t. I won´t change your views (not that i was looking to) so its pointless to keep going.

I think we just have different views of the future, and it is OK if we agree not to agree.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Ok not fear but lazyness. I go back to the same, my optimism that the future society that witness this major change won´t be as mental lazy as the current one.

I think you are on your own on this one. No comment.

Originally posted by Zeratul
My point was that the religion that "suffered" with this new knowledge was the roman catholic, that it didnt affected other religions but meh

And replying to your last paragraph, you must accept that the belief in god has declined and that science keeps advancing. Again I say that new technilogies will enhace human intelligence, and with this new philosophies, new problems etc

I don’t know that belief in God is declining around the world because I have not researched it, and I’m guessing that you haven’t either, but here in the US I would say people are more religious now than say 30 years ago, but that is my opinion.

Originally posted by Zeratul
again you are thinking on the average person of current societies. The article talks about decades into the future. As you know society changes, and it is changing faster and faster

Same answer as before, societies change but belief in a supreme being doesn’t.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Well they said that computers would only be afforded by universities and institutes etc; and whose to say that capitalism will prevail in the future society this scientists talk about?, the sole fact that capitalism was "created" by a scientific invention, a new one may provoke a new system. And about the people against changes, there will always be there, but not enough to halt progress in my optimistic view.

Well time will tell, but I don’t think either one of us will be around to say “I told you so”.

I hear what your saying,

And I would have to agree...

If I saw jesus walk on water towards me, turn my glass of water into wine, while bringing someone back from the dead.. id be inclined to glimpse over the bible.

But short of that, there's not really anything i could see that would change my mind.

What did occur to you? if you dont mind me askin?

I mean miraculous things happen all the time, amazing things that people would deem IMPOSSIBLE, until it happened...
So again, if some fete which isnt 'out of this world' occured, it wouldnt sway me.

Geeeze .. I leave for a few days and look what happened to my thread!!

Originally posted by Hal9000
I originally used it meaning the scientists are basing the idea that science will replace religion based on their own personal reasoning. The fact is the rest of the world doesn’t reason the same way, so the outcome will not be what they think it will. In other words they need to get out more ...

Exactly. If scientists are having a fantasy that the entire world will become athiest and scientific .. then they have been sniffing the fumes in their labs too long. People around the world .. for tens of thousands of years .. have had religion of some sort as a basic part of their lives. Not ALL people ... but most people.

They need to get out more and experience people and how people think.

[edit on 1/7/2007 by FlyersFan]

I was wondering if it is possible to catalogue or identify some of the religions of this world in a manner to get people to think outside of thier public school educations?? Translate this television educations..mostly emotions.

Politics.....obviously a religion by the very zealousness of its devotees. The faithful. A very devoted and or a devout following. You can tell this by the bottom scraping and bottom feeding going on in many of the rooms here on ATS/BTS. It is very similar to the bottom feeding going on in the religion rooms...indicating that there is a connection here. The key here is that items of major importance in politics are often hidden from the public spotlight though they affect the public. This falls under the term "Occult" hidden from the public. Especially in the mechanisms of the various partys. This is quite clear to me. It has become about the buisness of the partys..not the public. It is obvious to me that most of the public is on a placebo here and does not know it..though I think some are suspecting this.

Public Education ...obviously a religion by once again its devotees..and the simple fact that it is financed by the Body Politic and the religious devotees of the body politic. Think long and hard on this one. It is an important clue to why education will not make us better people or a better world. Hasnt to this date...nor will it ever. Placebo operating here too.

In the field of education..some of you people do know that the Romans or even the Greeks of which writings survive...they were very highly educated peoples of thier day?? Same with the nations of Ancient times in the orient or the Middle East. These people ..the leaders were often very highly educated. Didnt change a thing did it??

Science...obviously a religion too by the number of devotees and faithful here. Amazing to me the number of very "educated" people on this thread who cannot see that the idea is to replace existing religions with the religion of Science. Too many Star Trek and Star Wars burn outs here. Someone here did not deal out the whole deck of cards..some were missing in the set.
Those of you yearning for world peace..need to understand enough history to get a grasp of the manner in which science has contributed to the art of war through the centurys and continues in this role to this very day.
My point here is that though science has put us in better cars, homes, clothes..better food..it has not really made us better people. Placebo.

Capitalism...including the media...often used to keep people on a string and not thinking or analyzing what is about them. Watch the number of people out here devoted to the next gadget or gimick to improve our lives by rates and rotes of consumption. How many people define themselves by what they consume..not by what they are capable of thinking about on their own. The Media encourages this line of thinking and conduct while they shill for thier respective political partys...Lobbiests...advertising agencys...etc etc. This is a treadmill for the unwary...including the news.
I am not speaking against capitalism per se...I am against the stupid that capitalism tends to invoke in people's thinking to make them think they are something they are obviously not...by purchasing the next goodie to come down the pipe. These goodies will not make us better people but there are clearly people who spend enough to create huge markets for the next goodie thinking it will improve us in some way. Obviously nor will the science which invents these goodies. I dont know what some of you are possibly thinking here in this thread. True Scientifically minded people can figure this out. True Religious people too. Placebo operating here.

These are just some concepts some of you might want to think through further than the standard public education lines you have been fed. I have come to recognize these as the religious practices of many. It became clear when I realized so many of the faithful were devoted to them as some kind of Higher solution to so many of our ills.

The very simple fact of this world is that none of these things are a solution to the wars and conflict or lack of peace in this world. There is obviously something very wrong in our thinking and analytical ability here.
Or ..we have been fed a placebo in our thinking process and dont know the difference.

Something for some of you to think about. The replys to this post are going to be intresting.

Is there a name for a religious belief or practice which keeps people lacking in thinking sufficient to break out of placebos??

Thanks,
Orangetom

Isn't this the exact plan of the NWO, and it was forseen in the bible. I would say it is moving toward a one world spiritualism. The New Age system of science, spirituality, and evolution is all appearing before our eyes. "Man can be god" seems to be the theme of this new age belief. Not to mention this stuff is littered in the secret societies that our most elite are a part of.

When the Pope has a conferance with men of every religion, and replaces the cross on the altar with pagan symbols, puts on clothing of a Native American spiritualist, you know the world is moving toward a future where religion is no more, but a one world religion with the worship of knowledge conatined by spirits.

Originally posted by thexsword
Isn't this the exact plan of the NWO, and it was forseen in the bible. I would say it is moving toward a one world spiritualism. The New Age system of science, spirituality, and evolution is all appearing before our eyes. "Man can be god" seems to be the theme of this new age belief. Not to mention this stuff is littered in the secret societies that our most elite are a part of.

When the Pope has a conferance with men of every religion, and replaces the cross on the altar with pagan symbols, puts on clothing of a Native American spiritualist, you know the world is moving toward a future where religion is no more, but a one world religion with the worship of knowledge conatined by spirits.

Intresting premise of your post. I too am aware of the concept that "Man can be god". In certain texts ,for which you must dig deeply to find, you will see this refered to as a demigods here on earth. The god that we can see. Nothing new here.

Yes..all these things I mentioned in my previous post are part of the steering mechanism to lead/steer us in this direction. This is obvious by its very inertness. Lack of ability to solve the problems it claims to notice or have authority over. In every instance. Hence the usage of the term Placebo.
And yes..most of the worlds organized religions are placebos to keep you on thier treadmill. Rome has no monopoly on this..they too have competition from other placebos.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I see none of the religion fearing atheists has even attempted to argue against my points.



Yes Rome, Mecca etc is attempting to keep everyone on their treadmill, they are feeding them drugs, blah blah blah

to do what? Rome now has an army of Billions of people who dedicate their lives to caring for others over themselves, upholding and adhering to the laws of the land, devotion to honesty, maintaining a stable family structure, giving generously to other countries, the list goes on. Yes its really scary...

I couldn't care less how corrupt the actual Vatican (or even Anglicanism, Judaism, Islam etc) has/is been, . Its a widely known fact that it has been infiltrated.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Science...obviously a religion too by the number of devotees and faithful here.

I agree. Science has become a religion for many people on the planet. Secular Humanism and Science. The two new relgions.

Originally posted by Peyres
It is human nature to fight. ANIMALS FIGHT EACH OTHER CONSTANTLY and they don't have religions.

You are 100% on the money! People have to fight. It's in our nature.

Originally posted by Neon Haze
I may get a backlash of comments for posting but...

My personal view is that Religion was only ever created as a means of control.

Amen!