a future without religion?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


No, nobody will ever get rid of God. ....... I have seen so many miracles I cant even count......

The miracles ive seen you have not seen .....


(religion) have saved my life from selfishness.

Thanks for sharing. I can relate. I have a distinct feeling you are not alone, and not a loan.

"You have voted JesusisTruth for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

How do we learn how to be good?

How do we convince people that their actions and behaviors, as well as their intentions are enslaved and in service to their dominant and primal instinct of Selfishness before (pre) serving anything or anyone (*to include truth) also known as: "Self PRE-serve". If they have not percieved reality through eyes that are not selfish, they have not seen one miracle, even if they had they would not necessarily be capable of percieving it consciously, since it may not serve their selfisheness, they need not see it.

Yet when atheist and arrogant people reject God and an idea of him, they place those things which they have learned to themselves, then they are puffed with pride.

In other words people who learn important lessons that give them a sense of control over others, or accumilates knowledge/information that gives them a percieved advantage over others, they are more likely to keep such knowledge to themselves, as it serves their best interests to do so, which is again them demonstrating through their actions and behaviors that they value the selfisheness of their individuality more than others, but only in cases where people are still subservants of their instinct to be selfish. Please note that JesusisTruth did not call anyone arrogant, but if the shoe fit .....

this can lead to make judgements on God, believeing they are superior

Anyone who judges reality or aspects of it, or anyone who objects to their own observations has demonstrated a need, or want for superiority over others. However, if one has not attempted to benefit or take anything from others, just offer truths of a different perspective or path travelled, is not demonstrating superiority, but perhaps just a willingness to serve, rather than put selfishness before serving others, which exists due to instinct of self pre - serve (no end to the command, so self before serve anything or anyone).

Hypocrites are the souls which brand religion with an evilface.

Even the "holy warriors" who abandon their own faith's teachings in order to benefit, whether they use others faiths as a tool to raise armies or not.

Realize that hypocrites are against God. If you saw a planet obeying the true teachings of Christ the Lord, this planet wouldnt need jails or any police.

Unfortunatley some people are trying to "survive" in a world that has everyone in a prison, a prison without walls. But, if someone has never viewed their environment without venturing into the perspective that there definately is a God, what basis for comparison do they have when judging how they themselves choose to observe reality?

Nobody has understanding.

I humbly dissagree and I agree at the same time.

EVERYBODY has understanding, no one has all of it.

thanks,
john

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

.... call names and accuse people of arrogance and hypocricy. ...... and start calling names...

JesusisTruth called no one names, nor accused people of arrogance or hypocracy. JesusisTruth may have merely been refering to how peoples' (general) actions and behaviors are in step with the accepted definitions of arrogance and hypocracy. JesusisTruth may not have been refering to personnally, but for some reason known only to you (presumably) you took offense to the accepted defintions of the jargon "arrogance" and "hypocracy", or perhaps you dissagree that certain actions and behaviors demonstrated by people who call themselves labels which identify affiliation with organized religions, or atheists.

just some thoughts i have on the subject.

thanks,
john

I think those scientists are on the money.

As humanity grows up, we'll continue to have philosophies and belief systems, but religion and rituals will go the way of the dinosaur. Instead of going on faith, more of us will start seeking out logical answers rather than blindly believing in something.

Most of us are no longer part of small villages where we'll be shunned if we don't go with the flow. We still have families to disappoint if our beliefs change, but we're no longer executed (at least in the west) if we choose to think for ourselves. Me personally, I'd be considered a heretic 500 years ago and burnt at the stake for sure. Many people only see bad in this world, but the fact is we're a much more tolerant species than we used to be.

As more of us take a stab at the fundamental questions of life with an open mind and less emotional attachment, we'll come to conclusions other than is expected of us by our religious peers. You can't blame them though... after all they've made many life-changing decisions based on their religion/beliefs. After a certain age, it's hard to change your perspective without first losing everything.

Originally posted by Kruel
I think those scientists are on the money.

As humanity grows up, we'll continue to have philosophies and belief systems, but religion and rituals will go the way of the dinosaur.

But scientists say that dinosaurs evolved into birds, so when you are saying that scientists are on the money, and the religion will go the way of the dinosaur, are you not saying that religion will eventually evolve to have wings and take flight?

Religion has not been the reason for wars at all. Almost all of the wars were fought for

1. Natural resources (luxurious items such as spices, the stuff for wine, stuff for dyes; strategic resources such as timber, iron, coal; financial resources such as gold, silver, copper etc)
   
2. Lad land and more land, primarily for development as housing for a growing population that pays taxes, and to be taxed on land itself
   
3. Low cost labor, either as slaves in the past, or extremely low wage workers from other lands looking for a better life in the prosperous conquering land.
   

In any cases where religion was involved, it was not so much because of conflicting religious beliefs, but that the true teachings of the religion were twisted by fanatical zealots to trick the general population into war by using an ideology (falsely interpreted) that the majority shared and their own ignorance to support war. In case you have not noticed, no religion openly justifies or says to cause mass war and deaths and torture and mayhem for the sake of whatever.

DYpes, are you saying that the crusades weren't a religious war?

are you saying that all the wars fought during the "age of religious wars" weren't religious?

dogmatism is a cause for war
religion seems to be the only socially acceptable place for it

The crusades were over 800 years ago

The "age of religous wars" ended 400 years ago.

It certainly WAS true, that warmongers couched their goals in religious rhetoric; but that was then.

In the mean time, have our wars become less bloody? of course not; the scientists just get better and better at killing civilians. They've invented new kinds of warfare. not just landmines and bunkerbusters and daisy cutters, but economic warfare and battles of attrition, bioweapons and WMD.

It isn't the imams and rabbis and priests who've given us those implements ---it was scientists like Oppenheimer, Einstein, and the friendly folks at Dow. The same types of scientists who, in this report, blame . . . religion.

.

.

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
that's what 150 leading scientists and intellectuals see the future as lacking
and war, they see less war

in the next few decades, they see both of those things disapearing


here's the scoop

discuss

War would not exist without weapons. Did the Pope create weapons? I think not. Scientists did.

War will exist without scientists, and without the pope, as long as their are divisions there shall be wars. If we are all equal and we see each other as equal, then we have no need to fear which leads to war. Once we can break down those barriers and realize that we are all connected and life is much easier with friends, then we will stop fighting.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Did the Pope create weapons?

No, popes don't create weapons. They just make use of them.

Pope Julius II devoted himself to the mission of becoming master in the papal kingdom. In full armour, and taking the lead, he won back most of Romagna and captured Bologna and Perugia from their tyrannical rulers.

I believe it was this pope who came storming over the walls of some Italian city or the other, resplendent in a white fur coat over full armour, brandishing his sword and shouting, 'Let's see who has the bigger testicles, the Emperor or the Vicar of Christ!' -- except, of course, he didn't use the word 'testicles'.

Maybe you've heard of the Wars of the Papal States?

[edit on 4-1-2007 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
The Soviet Union went a long way toward eradicating religion as a force in public life...

Oh no, not that argument again. Why does ATS repeat itself so much?

Could you please elaborate for us the differences between Marxism and religion? Here's a hint to get you started: not all religions postulate the existence of a God, but they all worship somebody or something.


[edit on 4-1-2007 by Astyanax]

Oh no, not that argument again. Why does ATS repeat itself so much?

What does that mean? That you're too tired to defend your own opinions? I haven't seen you're list of "forbidden ATS talking points," but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't feel bound by it in any case. You're no better than the rest of us, Bub; if you wont bother to discuss what other people post, then just be silent, instead of hinting that "they" have made some kind of philosophical blunder. Nice use of "us," by the way, in implying that "the rest of ATS" agrees with your viewpoint . . .


You want to argue that Marxism is a religion, because it's an all-encompassing world-view? Its founders and main proponents would have denied it, vehemently. But hey, don't let mere facts get in the way of your rhetoric.

Fine, any "movement" is a religion; from Da-da to rap music.


Basically, anything you don't like is a religion; how's that?

[edit on 4-1-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Basically, anything you don't like is a religion; how's that?

[edit on 4-1-2007 by dr_strangecraft]

i'm pretty sure the point was that anything that was dogmatic can be seen as a religion

though i wouldn't go with marxism, because it was never implemented
though stalinism, that is very similar to religion

anyway, this isn't talking about the IMMEDIATE FORCED REMOVAL of religion, just the general erosion

also...
the article doesn't inherently corolate war and religious belief
just war and a mindset that allows for dogmatism

Madness, i sense a good person in you that is searching for some true purpose in life, you are searching in the right book, keep searching brother.

"Seek and you will find"

"The Truth will set you free"

[edit on 4-1-2007 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

...
You have no clue what faith is,
...
Yet when atheist and arrogant people ... then they are puffed with pride.
...
you athiest would be just like I was ... without being taught what decency is.
...
Hypocrites
...
Realize that hypocrites are against God.
...
beware of hypocrites,

Interesting that you are the first person in this thread to get angry, call names and accuse people of arrogance and hypocricy. You actually make a very good case for how religion causes problems between people. We don't believe the same as you so you get mad and start calling names...

Don't hit me, ok?

Gee, you sure know how to change someone's post around with your deceiving use of the ellipsis.

Why don't you respond to the whole post instead of changing it to how you see fit, OK "BENEVOLENT.":shk:

Et, I agree that people do have understanding, I put it wrongly. alot of the world just lacks understanding about the things of God and the spirit.

I realize that sin blinds the understanding, and Jesus has said or the apostle has said that sin darkens the things of God and the senual man perceiveth no the things of the spirit, for it is foolish to him ect..

understanding is definitely a grace.


Not, mr madness in your soul. First why do you have this user name if you don't believe in a soul?

Your in a warfare with satan who you dont believe in just like I am, but im telling you the Lord is real and you will realize it soon and God wants you to believe.

If hypocrites and prideful christian turn you off, realize that christ is meek and humble of heart.

All christians if they want true communion have to realize they are wretched sinners before God who dont deserve his grace.



What I said about hell, im not condemning you, as I will probably end up there as well, but the point of the thread is.


"life without God'

I believe in hell, I believe those who dont want God to exist will have to be seprated from God in this place forever, so I meant (we) will get our wish, as in we will be in a place where he exist not.

But on earth we will never get rid of him, he created us peices of slime out of the slime of the earth, and we are so puffed up, we dont even realize it.

God and his power is literally amazing. He created the universe.


"the pope"


We have had in our church many antipopes in our history, many sinful popes ect.... Not every pope was a saint, infact not many i think were.


The Crusades

I am not learned but I thought the crusades were for defending the faith from the jews or muslims along time ago.?


You got to realize that the commandment


"thou shall not kill" is still a commandment, and this is commanded that allchristians keep these commands.

And the part about weapons. religion did not creat nuclears bombs, scientists with no conscience did.

This is what people do without grace, as I said before, go downtown and walk into a crowd of gang members and you will see what souls with no grace are capable of.


Gods grace alone is good, and if this grace existed in everybody, no war, or weapons of mass destruction would exist, but they do and this planet will destroy itself because of this.


Jesus said.


" If those days had not been shortened, no life would be saved"


Hes going to intervene before these weapons destroy the entire earth. we cant exist without his grace.



peace.

I wanted to add something else, this whole "control the masses" is the funniest BS I've ever heard.

Yeah, they've been doing a real good job haven't they?

Take a look around all you delusional people, and see who is really being controlled.

Controll the masses.

Their idea is that a group of hypocrites created religion to somehow control people, they dont believe in actualy revelation and miracles which many saints saw. God opened the red sea for tons of people.


Take alook at stuff idol minded poeople created to see whos really being controlled.

T.V. sucks life out of people and feeds people with anything, or any lie it can come up with.


blessed mother said that tv is the (evil box, in which satan will speak lies to you through)


Computer, video games, makes people zombie like, I know from experience that video games can take up to 10 hours a day or more of life out of you.




now this stuff is good, but praying on your knees a rosary to God for yourself, more graces, and the world is controlling?


the whole christian faith as christ said is summed into two things.


" Love God with all your heart"

" Love thy neighbor"


This leads to the perfect world if people would actually follow these without judgements.




peace.

Godless people are the ones who are controlled, controlled by your lusts, worldly aspiration's etc., all this is the result of your search for happiness, which you will never find away from God.

All followers of Christ are the free ones, freed from all these temporary earthly things, we know our home is somewhere else. We don't have to lust, or worry about becoming famous or rich or whatever it is that all you worldly people worry about.

So go on keeping yourself distracted by your TV, computer, music or whatever else it is you use to distract yourself from the truth.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Controll the masses.

Their idea is that a group of hypocrites created religion to somehow control people, they dont believe in actualy revelation and miracles which many saints saw. God opened the red sea for tons of people.

we don't believe because there is no EVIDENCE, atheists and various other forms of non-theists tend to look for evidence to support claims

Take alook at stuff idol minded poeople created to see whos really being controlled.

T.V. sucks life out of people and feeds people with anything, or any lie it can come up with.

really?
one of the biggest evolutions in communication technology is bad?
tv doesn't suck the life out of me, hell, it's a good place to get information

blessed mother said that tv is the (evil box, in which satan will speak lies to you through)

blessed mother?
who is said blessed mother?
and where is this quote?

Computer, video games, makes people zombie like, I know from experience that video games can take up to 10 hours a day or more of life out of you.

now this stuff is good, but praying on your knees a rosary to God for yourself, more graces, and the world is controlling?

repetetive ritual is a form of mind control

the whole christian faith as christ said is summed into two things.


" Love God with all your heart"

love a thing whose existence cannot be proved...
that seems awfully mind controlling

" Love thy neighbor"

not exclusive to christianity

This leads to the perfect world if people would actually follow these without judgements.

how does loving a being who has no provable influence in this world going to lead to a perfect world?


[edit on 1/4/07 by madnessinmysoul]

[edit on 1/4/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Not, mr madness in your soul. First why do you have this user name if you don't believe in a soul?

it's a quote from a song....
also, i do believe in using the term "soul" as a synonym for sentient conciousness

Your in a warfare with satan who you dont believe in just like I am, but im telling you the Lord is real and you will realize it soon and God wants you to believe.

no, see, i don't even think said demon exists
i don't believe in any form of divine warfare
and NO i will N O T realize that your "lord" is real (why must christians make god masculine?)

If hypocrites and prideful christian turn you off, realize that christ is meek and humble of heart.

actually, religion and dogmatism turn me off
not just individual christians
hell, i have no problem with christians
some of them are great people
i just have a problem with their (and every other) religious belief system

All christians if they want true communion have to realize they are wretched sinners before God who dont deserve his grace.

really?
i don't see myself as wretched
i mean, i'm fairly humble
i don't think i'm incredibly great
i just don't think i'm a wretched sinner

a bunch of claims about god

you cannot back up those statements
and, i'm by no means a very puffed up person
but, i need P R O O F

The Crusades

I am not learned but I thought the crusades were for defending the faith from the jews or muslims along time ago.?

actually, it was a slaughter of both jews and muslims for control of the holy city of abrahamic religions

You got to realize that the commandment

"thou shall not kill" is still a commandment, and this is commanded that allchristians keep these commands.

and you have to realize that the bible lists MANY infractions for which death is a suitable punishment
hell, jesus even tells his followers to bring people before him and kill them (do not have citation on this at the moment, i've misplaced my heavily annotated holy books)

And the part about weapons. religion did not creat nuclears bombs, scientists with no conscience did.

actually, einstein instigated the project to make sure somebody got the bomb before the nazis did
then, when he found out the nazis had stopped developing it, he wanted them to never use it
and, also, as horrible as nukes were...
they did prevent a USA amphibous invasion of Japan that would have cost far more lives
anyway, my point is that they had conscience, and many were devout christians

This is what people do without grace, as I said before, go downtown and walk into a crowd of gang members and you will see what souls with no grace are capable of.

counter-point
the latin kings
a INCREDIBLY DEVOUT group of catholics that are also gang members...

Gods grace alone is good, and if this grace existed in everybody, no war, or weapons of mass destruction would exist, but they do and this planet will destroy itself because of this.

so, the ONLY good is from god...
care to back up any of that claim?

Jesus said.
" If those days had not been shortened, no life would be saved"

Hes going to intervene before these weapons destroy the entire earth. we cant exist without his grace.

what?
where's this coming from?
you're making a claim that jesus is going to come before nukes kill everyone
but we haven't been close to nuclear war since the cuban missle crisis
hell, you quote jesus without providing citation

you seem to make a bunch of statements about god and jesus
you cannot back them up
AND
another thing is that your statement about jesus coming in to save the day (deus ex machina, anyone) highlights the main point i have about religion
it's there to give hope
albeit FALSE