Questions about Fallen Angels ...........

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posted on Jan, 20 2004 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS

Originally posted by lilblam
The Christian information about a creation comes from a mistranslation of the Jewish Testament. The Jewish text reads:
"In beginning, the GODS MADE the heaven and the earth."

The Christians CHANGED that to read:

"In THE beginning, GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth."

In other words, the concept of a creation stems from a MISTRANSLATION - from a LIE. Think about that!


Reply: Isn't it great that because of God's given freewill that anyone can believe anything they want to and say anything they want to. However this is only true for now. All will eventually have to deal with the consequences of the decisions they have made.

Thanks for commenting................


OH REALLY? Here's my conversation with someone who DOES speak Hebrew, in a U2U.
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Q: Now is what he says precise? Was it changed from "the GODS MADE" to "GOD CREATED" ?

A: The original text of the first sentence of the bible confused many people. I can't type it for you in hebrew because of computer limitations so I will transliterate it for you.

It states "Bereishis Bara Elokim".

Hebrew grammar is not like english grammar, it's more similar to the other semitic languages grammar. Be (in) Reishis (the beginning) Bara (created) Elokim (god).

The problem here was that the Ptolemy wanted a translation of the old testament for his library. He decided to take 70 great rabbis and have them translate it to make sure that they do it accurately. This is known as the Septuagint.

The rabbis realized that if they leave it in it's current grammar form it will look like Bereshis created Elokim. The question would then arise, who created god? So the change was made by all of them (remarkably in different rooms) to "Elokim Bara Bereishis". God created in the beginning...

Again grammatically, hebrew is different than english. The switch of the words did not alter the full sentence which reads "bereishis bara elokim et hashamayim v'et ha'aretz". In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth. It changed it to "God created, in the beginning, the heavens and the earth."

Hope that's helpful to you

Q: Sorta!

Isn't Elokim = Elohim? Well either way, isn't Elokim PLURAL and Eloka or Eloha would be singular? Then it would be "GODS" (that's what I heard, so I'm just asking you). And is the word precisely MADE or CREATED? Made would be like shaped, constructed. Created would be created out of nothing. Is there maybe another word in hebrew for created? What can you tell me about that?

A: Excellent question!!

it is forbidden for a jew to use god's name in vain. When a jew is praying he will say elohim. When just mentioning the name, a slight change is made to elokim to prevent the use of gods names in vain.

As for the plurality of it... you've hit one of the hardest questions in all of judaism. I have excellent knowledge of judaism but am no rabbi. What about the line in genesis stating "Na'aseh Adam betzalmeinu kidmusainu" let US make a man in our image? Us? Who in the hell is us? yeah it's confusing. God has many names in the jewish tradition. El, Elohim, Adonai, YHVH (pronounciation lost in 70AD but sometimes mislabelled as jehovah), and a 22 letter name also lost in the destruction of the temple that was only spoken by the high priest on Yom Kippur. It is very hard to understand a lot of this. Is god talking to angels when he says let us? is there more than one god? or is god just using a plural i.e. the royal "we are not amused". it's hard for any of us to say one way or the other. my personal view is the royal we because various other writings make it seem impossible for there to be more than one god, and angels do not have free will. (the difference between man and angel is free will). am i confusing you yet? i'm sorry. it's something that old men with white beards have spent their whole lives studying and it still confuses them!! they know more than me, i can just do my best

Q: No didn't confuse me Thanks.. that was insightful.. I just learned something spontaneously that I didn't even plan on. You said Adonai right? Well there's a psychic who calls himself "Sollog Adonai... (some last name here)". www.sollog.com...

Now, he is a fraud. But he also calls himself God, and says he speaks for God and only HE, and no one else. You know, the usual crap. I didn't think that his middle name was one of the names for God also, so you learn something every day! This is all rather interesting, to say the least!

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it.

A: Adonai comes from the root "adon" which means master. Sounds like that guy is a first class nutcase

happy to have helped out with that stuff since it can be very confusing. any other questions feel free to drop me a line.




posted on Jan, 20 2004 @ 02:04 AM
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Regarding my last post, who else do we know here that "speaks for God"? Oh it's our friend T.F.T.!

When you see someone claim they speak for God or can talk to God or hear God or the Holy Spirit or even talk to Jesus, my personal advice is to RUN the other way.

TRAINEDFORTHIS, I do wonder, what is the point of you spreading this warning? So that we heed it and when aliens show up we can call them demons and stay away? And if you're full of # and they are just benevolent race trying to make contact, and a bunch of TRAINEDFORTHIS-followers starts throwing rocks and shooting them cuz they believe their are demons from hell... see how that could really # things up?

Also, let's say they ARE indeed malevolent. So what? And if someone does follow them, God will send them to Hell? And then you claim it is them doing it to themselves? I'm sorry but, it still takes GOD to send someone to Hell, no matter how "naughty" the person was or who they worshipped. So no, they don't do it to themselves.

It's like your parents spanking you and telling you "you've done this to yourself, and I do this because I love you". What a load of crock, they do it cuz at the moment they feel like beating the # out of you, so they spank you. NOT because they love you! Kids are brainwashed like this daily!

So GOD sends us to Hell because he Loves us? Because we did this to ourselves? How do you FORCE someone into eternal damnation against their will and then tell them they did it to themselves? Who'd believe that nonsense?

TRAINEDFORTHIS, you'd have to be a complete idiot to think there's an authority figure up there somewhere throwing people in Hell or Heaven on his whim. You'd be pretty gullible/stupid to believe in Heaven or Hell in the first place. You have MUCH to learn, my young padawan


Have fun brainwashing people though, that's something you seem to be good at. The whole Church is great at that, so you were TRAINED BY THE BEST! Wish you the best of luck getting your fearful, insecure, slaves that you seek. There's no other word for people who give their will to someone else and fear some God and eternal punishment for being "naughty".



posted on Jan, 22 2004 @ 09:29 AM
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TO LILBLAM

Clearly you’re intelligent; otherwise you wouldn’t be here at ATS. You question reality as it is presented to you – as do I. We have something in common and I respect you. BUT – some of the things you say get on my nerves. You’ve posted on this thread multiple times, yet you continue to resort to insults – mostly directed at TFT, but indirectly at anyone who gives him even a pinch of attention, myself included. If this thread bothers you so- stop visiting. There are plenty of other “valid” conspiracies for you look at on this site, since this one seems so void of intelligence. Im too lazy to run through this nearly 30 page thread to quote every last post and whatnot, but its clear you don’t buy into TFT’s supposed message. Here is a recent quote that really irks me>>

TRAINEDFORTHIS, you'd have to be a complete idiot to think there's an authority figure up there somewhere throwing people in Hell or Heaven on his whim. You'd be pretty gullible/stupid to believe in Heaven or Hell in the first place. You have MUCH to learn, my young padawan

Firstly, Im not saying I agree with anybody - including TFT because I am still evaluating this all, but lets just say I think there is an authority figure up there somewhere, and I believe in a heaven or hell? Does that make me a complete idiot? Am I now pretty gullible/stupid? Do I have much to learn Mr. Jedi master? Oh master Lilblam, please teach me the truth, because apparently you’ve been hiding it in your pocket…… or something?! C’mon’ now. Lets just pretend for a minute here that you don’t know everything. I would ask you to close your eyes for this next activity, if you didn’t need them to read it. Imagine there was an authority figure up there somewhere, who put us here to test us; to see what we would make out of it. Lets say he has unlimited power. Has Abilities so vast that we can’t even comprehend them. Has Reasons so complicated that even if he explained them, we wouldn’t understand. Lets say there’s an all powerful being who can build and destroy dimensions the way we manipulate a set of legos. Lets say after this life we pick up similar abilities, perhaps the ability to understand time; not know what it is by living through it, but to really understand it and manipulate it. Maybe we gain those understandings after this life….maybe not? (just guessing here) Those are pretty far reaching ideas, but hey, I haven’t heard anything better… what’s that? BIG BANG? Darwinism –please. Both theories are just as difficult to swallow as religion. I see no difference. They are both attempts to explain the origin/meaning of life, but still have no proof. That’s right, you cannot PROVE Darwin correct as far as I see it. Darwin was a very smart man in puzzling those pieces together, but I don’t think those pieces fit perfectly. That’s another argument all together. Sticking with what I started – isn’t it amazing that throughout recorded history, uncountable theories have surfaced addressing this confusing life and all its mysteries, attempting to answer all of life’s questions…………… but not ONE can be solidly proven without a shadow of a doubt. Not ONE. –think about it …..

TFT doesn’t defend himself, so I will try….- understand, I still have my own qualms with religion, and I am only sharing my opinion- I do not completely agree with everything TFT says, so I do not assume that he agrees with everything I say, but I THINK he will mostly agree with this>

About the authority figure throwing people to heaven or hell on his/her whim versus the individual person placing himself there. This is how I see it> heaven is a place that is clean; hell is a place that is dirty. just by their nature, hell is dirty heaven is clean- period. Those are the rules, we have to play by them. Unclean things cannot go to heaven; because it is clean. If anything unclean stepped inside heaven, heaven would cease to be heaven. Don’t think of it so much as God sending us to hell, but rather us going there on our own, because it is our only option. By living a sinful life (we all do) without repentance (we all don’t), we erase our opportunity to enter the pearly gates. Remember, (according to Christianity) God is just – he knows our intentions, regardless of our actions.

This entire website is dedicated to discussing these very topics; from the paranormal to government cover-ups. When was the last time someone here came to a solid conclusion about anything?! Not downing ATS, because I love what it represents (thinking for yourself) but until you can PROVE it, don’t be so cocky to suggest that everyone else’s Beliefs are inferior to your own. Be open-minded to the endless possibilities that remain possibilities until they are proven as not possible. You can’t prove a negative.

One of your statements, I couldn’t agree with more. I believe that many “church”-es (which you speak of I don’t know) do brainwash its congregations, for the sake of control. But I don’t think the deception lies with the church, but with the individuals running them and individuals in the past that have run them – twisting truth to suit their desires. –using half truths etc.

Maybe the point of life is just to figure out the point of life. A loophole I know, but when you think about it, it kind of translates like this : the point of life is to ponder/wonder/think about the point of life, regardless whether you discover the point at all, as long as you’ve given it your best attempt at figuring it out. Get this> I cant prove it.

I figure, that if everyone did this to the best of their abilities, there would be peace of mind. Lilblam…> if you’re doing this, (and I think you are) continue!….. – just be aware there are others in the same boat as you. Just because they’ve come to a different conclusion at the moment than your self, it doesn’t mean they’re not looking for the same answers.

On the surface you’re analogy about parent spanking child makes sense, but I hope you don’t mean to say only angry abusive parents who want to hit something spank their children. Granted, -spanking may not be the best form of discipline, but parents who fail to discipline at all aren’t letting their children run rampant because they love them. (some) Parents DO discipline children because they love them – and that’s no brainwash. Its logic.

I guess this wasn’t all directed at LILBLAM, just had to vent.
My two cents – be open minded. Oh and Trained- where are you?
PEACE



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by helen670
T.F.T there is not going to be a removal of Christians ....
QUOTE//
In all the writings of the Scriptures, the Early Fathers, and the Ecumenical Councils, there is no mention of two 2nd comings of Christ.

Reply: Most CORRECT you are here. For the rapture is NOT a return of Christ but the departure of the Christians. When Chrst returns He returns for good. However the Christians depart at the rapture and go to a place where Jesus said He went away to prepare in John 14:2-3. We stay there will Him for 1000 years until He actually returns to earth at what is know as the second coming of Christ.


The Fathers of the Church wanted it to be crystal clear that when our Lord returns (a time which only God the Father knows- Mark 13:32).
He will establish His rule on earth forever, not merely 1000 years.

Reply: CORRECT you are again. As I stated above when Christ returns He sets up an everlasting kingdom. The millenial reign is not on earth.


The council did not condemn the Rapture heresy because the teaching did not yet exist.
Moreover,
there is no mention of the teaching in either the early Medieval period or the Scholastic era.

Reply: I hope you understand that because something was not taught does not mean it was not a truth. There are many truths that are not taught today that the bible would uphold. They are not taught because many do not understand the scriptures that would reveal them.


AND....QUOTE////The Rapture’s supporters derive their opinions ultimately from a single Scripture verse, I Thessalonians 4:17,
"Then we who are left alive will be carried off together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord." Less popular but often cited is Matthew 24:40-42,
"Then there will be two in the field.
One will be taken and the other left.
Two will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken and the other left.
Therefore, be vigilant, for you do not know on what day your Lord will come."

The paragraph which contains the first verse quoted above, I Thessalonians 4:17,
forms the Epistle reading for funerals in Orthodox worship.
The passage begins with 4:13.
In preceding verses St. Paul has spoken of the necessity for holiness of life and for brotherly love among Christians (4:1-12).
With verse 13 he turns to another topic, the fate of Christians after death.
Misunderstandings on this issue had apparently caused needless distress and apprehension in the church at Thessalonika.
It seems that some people believed that Christians who died before Christ’s return would somehow miss out on that glorious event.

Reply: Again you are almost totally correct except the problem was that many thought beccause Christians had died that they would not have eternal live. Paul wants them to know that they did not have to be alive (which would mean that they would be raptured) to be accepted into the kingdom by God. However they would be resurrected at the first ressurection. Therefore when the rapture occurs there is no need for a resurrection of those who are alive. God only needs to resurrect the dead. Those who are alive will be raptured. Rev 20:5 further explains that those who are resurrected at this time are a part of the first resurrection. The second resurrection does not take place until after the 1000 years when Jesus returns to earth for His second coming. Therefore there is one rapture and two resurrectins.


St. Paul seeks to calm their fears (vs. 13). He points out that as Christ returned from the dead at His Resurrection,
so also,
at the end of time,
His followers who have died in the interim will be restored through resurrection (vs. 14).

Reply: Correct here, but there is a difference between the end of time and the end of the world. The end of time is at the rapture and the end of the world is 1000 years later.


At the Second Coming,
the Christian dead will be raised (vs. 16). Then they and the faithful who are still alive will be caught up into the clouds to welcome Christ as He descends (verses 15,17).

Reply: At the Rapture (which is simultaneous with the first resurrection) is when the Christian dead will be resurrected not raptured. Only those who are alive are raptured and the dead are resurrected. Note that in the second resurrection, there are NO dead in Christ that need to rise. Read Rev. 20:5-6 for clarification of the second resurrection. One other scriptural proof of the rapture in scripture is found in John 6:15-21. However I should warn you that you will need a spiritual eye to decipher it.

Note I did not tell you about what religious groups have said or ask you to read a website for understanding but I directed you to the bible. That is the only source left for man to trust.

Thanks for commenting....................



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Asked off thread:


6:30 am EST

TFT:

I asked: what are the jinn? are they good, evil or both?
you replied:


Reply: Another one of Satan´s allusions like ghost and leprechauns!!! ALL ARE BAD!!!


Would you like to be more specifik please..

Because, the Jinn according to Koran, can be both Good ort Bad. This means there can be also good Aliens.. It is the Holy Book of a world religion, thus, i may expect a more specifik answer from you..

Reply: I don quite understand what was not understood here. If it is from Satan it is BAD!!! I suggest you study the Bible and pray for guidiance through the Holy Spirit instead of depending on the Koran if you want understanding. Of course such is your freewill. There is NO such thing as a good ALIEN. All are clones created by the fallen angels to deceive mankind!!!

Thanks for asking.............



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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Just thought I would mention that fallen angels/aliens have a sick sense of humor. Thats is why they can tamper with the Spirit Rover and cause it to come on and off again. Just to tease humanity. Pay attention to what happens to the second probe. You will notice NASA has had many failures on Mars. Of course you may think it is by coincidence.

Thanks for paying attention...........



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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i really respect this guy. not just because most of the stuff he says i too believe in but because he is insistent and tries to address all respectable questions. how many people here claim they have as many answers as him. though i do understand TFT is operating under the Holy Spirit (so he says). If so then I'm like a sponge over here. The Holy Spirit is very powerful and useful. I wish I could hear the Holy Spirit as much as this guy is claiming to hear it. Its almost like the force in star wars.... just a lot better and real.


rock on TFT!




[Edited on 24-1-2004 by krossfyter]



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS
Just thought I would mention that fallen angels/aliens have a sick sense of humor. Thats is why they can tamper with the Spirit Rover and cause it to come on and off again. Just to tease humanity. Pay attention to what happens to the second probe. You will notice NASA has had many failures on Mars. Of course you may think it is by coincidence.

Thanks for paying attention...........


How do you figure that the fallen angels/aliens are tampering with the spirit rover? I know you say you get your message from the Holy Spirit. But is there any other type of way you are arriving at this answer or assumption? Any evidence outside of the Holy Spirit?
Just would like to hear what you have to say thats all.



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by krossfyter

How do you figure that the fallen angels/aliens are tampering with the spirit rover? I know you say you get your message from the Holy Spirit. But is there any other type of way you are arriving at this answer or assumption? Any evidence outside of the Holy Spirit?
Just would like to hear what you have to say thats all.

Reply: My attention here is basicly to inform that God does not desire for man to be on Mars. Mankind has enough problems on earth. The fallen angel/aliens are quite aware of this and know that they have an open hand to deal with the situation. They know that God would deal with them Himself if they allow lets just say certain information about them which is on Mars to be given to man before He is ready for man to know. Therefore they are more involved than most would believe. They are responsible for some failures and some have been equipment problems. The pattern will continue.

Thanks for asking.................



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS

Originally posted by krossfyter

How do you figure that the fallen angels/aliens are tampering with the spirit rover? I know you say you get your message from the Holy Spirit. But is there any other type of way you are arriving at this answer or assumption? Any evidence outside of the Holy Spirit?
Just would like to hear what you have to say thats all.

Reply: My attention here is basicly to inform that God does not desire for man to be on Mars. Mankind has enough problems on earth. The fallen angel/aliens are quite aware of this and know that they have an open hand to deal with the situation. They know that God would deal with them Himself if they allow lets just say certain information about them which is on Mars to be given to man before He is ready for man to know. Therefore they are more involved than most would believe. They are responsible for some failures and some have been equipment problems. The pattern will continue.

Also you may read John 16:13 on how the Holy Spirit works.

Thanks for asking.................



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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I thought this thread was moved to BTS religion. Does this have anything to do with theories of conspiracies in religion, or is it just one-member's soap box?



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS Just thought I would mention that fallen angels/aliens have a sick sense of humor. Thats is why they can tamper with the Spirit Rover and cause it to come on and off again.
This is patently ridiculous. Again I must ask why this thread exists in a forum dedicated to conspiracies in religion, or inspired by aspects of religion? This seems much more suited to the general theology discussion intent of the BTS religion forum.



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS
Just thought I would mention that fallen angels/aliens have a sick sense of humor. Thats is why they can tamper with the Spirit Rover and cause it to come on and off again.

This is patently ridiculous.

Again I must ask why this thread exists in a forum dedicated to conspiracies in religion, or inspired by aspects of religion?

This seems much more suited to the general theology discussion intent of the BTS religion forum.

Reply: The problem here Sir is that this information I have received through the leading of the Holy Spirit encompasses all that relates to the Endtime events that are upon humanity. The information covers:
1. The fall of Babylon - USA (One World Government)
2. The announcement of Aliens (who are actually fallen angels)
3. The shifting of the Earth on its axis (POLE SHIFT)
4. Rapture

My personal website discusses the entire issue. You may find it necessary to switch it back and forth to different forums, but the information remains the same. The information also incudes:

The purpose for Chemtrails
Why the push to Mars
The reason for abductions
Bio-chip implants (mark of the beast)
Anti-Christ
Increase in Earthquakes
Volcanic Activity
The relationship of Solar Flares to the Pole Shift

All related to the Endtime Events. You decide where it should be. I have no idea. I just convey this endtime information as asked to do.

The endtime information covers every aspect of mans existence here on earth for the short time that remains. As you can see by the number of views, somebody is concerned and wants to know.

Thanks for asking....................



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 11:10 PM
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Trainedforthis.. some of the info you have spread is correct, but some of it is also flawed. But since some of it is based on opinion, and my argument against it is also the same, itsmostly a exchange of ideas.

You said Mars was inahbited by us before and Jesus came there etc...

Actually Mars was a paradise for the Angels, and was inhabited by Lucifer himself, it was his home. When he rebelled, it was destroyed by God..

My belief is the things we are being shown, if in fact there actually is something up there is all staged and a setup for a grand deception, much like a senario you implied that our race was there etc, almost like a repeat of the times on earth..



posted on Jan, 24 2004 @ 11:14 PM
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what gets me is the whole craze over angels-- idolizing angels -which in fact is forbidden angel worship, there are only about 40 angel to human contacts in the Bible, and that was as messengers from God. People didnt converse with them daily, etc,,



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 02:21 AM
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Question for TRAINEDFORTHIS -

When was the first documentated sighting of an alien/ alien craft by the human population?

What is your interpretation of same event?



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 02:29 AM
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The rapture is the lifting of human souls to a permanent place in the heavenly heirarchy when the correct time comes. This is not decided by Christ or anyone else but the souls level of development and the vehicle to lift it up so to speak, a universal force that will occur at that time.



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 08:48 AM
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Since no one has responded as to the reason this is in a "Conspiracies in Religion & Spiritualism" forum, it will be moved to the theology discussions in Below Top Secret.



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS

Originally posted by TRAINEDFORTHIS

Originally posted by krossfyter

How do you figure that the fallen angels/aliens are tampering with the spirit rover? I know you say you get your message from the Holy Spirit. But is there any other type of way you are arriving at this answer or assumption? Any evidence outside of the Holy Spirit?
Just would like to hear what you have to say thats all.

Reply: My attention here is basicly to inform that God does not desire for man to be on Mars. Mankind has enough problems on earth. The fallen angel/aliens are quite aware of this and know that they have an open hand to deal with the situation. They know that God would deal with them Himself if they allow lets just say certain information about them which is on Mars to be given to man before He is ready for man to know. Therefore they are more involved than most would believe. They are responsible for some failures and some have been equipment problems. The pattern will continue.

Also you may read John 16:13 on how the Holy Spirit works.

Thanks for asking.................



So if I read you correctly... the aliens/fallen angels are kinda working for God in this situation? Why do the aliens/fallen angles have to do this work and why doesnt God do it himself?

[Edited on 25-1-2004 by krossfyter]



posted on Jan, 25 2004 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by TRAINED FOR THIS

Reply: My attention here is basicly to inform that God does not desire for man to be on Mars. Mankind has enough problems on earth. The fallen angel/aliens are quite aware of this and know that they have an open hand to deal with the situation. They know that God would deal with them Himself if they allow lets just say certain information about them which is on Mars to be given to man before He is ready for man to know. Therefore they are more involved than most would believe. They are responsible for some failures and some have been equipment problems. The pattern will continue.

Also you may read John 16:13 on how the Holy Spirit works.

Thanks for asking.................

so if I read you correctly... the aliens/fallen angels are kinda working for God in this situation? Why do the aliens/fallen angles have to do this work and why doesnt God do it himself?

Reply: It is not that they work for God so much. It is just that prisoners must follow orders. Remember that they are in chains (even though their chains are not understood by most). However they have been allowed some freedoms, which include the setting up of facilities for their use on plantets without human life. So they must take care to make sure they do not allow proof of their existence there to be discovered until after the official public announcement of their existence. If they slip up then God will take care of it but in a way they would regret.

Thanks for asking.........................





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