Russian Air Force vs. US Airforce

OK if there was a conflict both sides would recieve many casulties. We dont really know whats going too happen until it does. Were can compare but we really need to see some really data. Russian made planes have been shot down by US aircraft pretty much everytime they have been encountered by those Russian made planes were not flown by Russians. I beleive that it would be a close conflict but because the Russian does not have a overall upgraded of aircraft and technology I beleive that the US airforce would win.

Jetsetter, agreed.

But I don't understand what the average Russian is fighting for?

Is it because they are happy? or unhappy? or they think that winning will make them happy?

I want to understand the psychology of the other guy sitting across from me.

In a real war I guess it would be for all our lives. That would be the case if the nuclear weapons were released but if that was not the case I do not really know. Russian is not really on top of the world anymore and if it lost a war not much would change. What could be do.

Well that is part of my point.

Look at the despirited fighting by the Russians in Chechyna for example.

Sure if someone convinced me that annother country was coming to murder me then I would be motivated to fight true.

But how do you motivate Russians to be the aggressor? You tell them that they will be rich if they win? Just wondered.

Originally posted by THENEO
Jetsetter, agreed.

But I don't understand what the average Russian is fighting for?

Is it because they are happy? or unhappy? or they think that winning will make them happy?

I want to understand the psychology of the other guy sitting across from me.

i am NOT fight for any advantage.

i didnt even say which is better.

Russian,

that is precisely my point.

but what will your leaders say to rile up the Russian people?

what can they promise or what threat can they create to piss off or scare or motivate the average Russian to fight?

Originally posted by THENEO
Russian,

that is precisely my point.

but what will your leaders say to rile up the Russian people?

what can they promise or what threat can they create to piss off or scare or motivate the average Russian to fight?

governemt doesnt have to say ANYTHING

the Russian people are just very patriotic for the motherland.

Okay,

patriotic for what? history? culture? tradition? sense of duty? don't know why? have to? sense of superiority?

just curious that's all.

Originally posted by THENEO
Okay,

patriotic for what? history? culture? tradition? sense of duty? don't know why? have to? sense of superiority?

just curious that's all.

# you tell me where patriaism comes from!

they just like that.

so am I

Russian,

hey man you are a smart guy but maybe you should try and explain it, not to me or anyone else but to yourself then.

me I am patriotic too for the good things about my country and some of the bad things. Sometimes others interfered in my country's past and I know that it limited what we could be today.

a correction first, the US has never lost a B-2, they have lost an F-117, but since stealth technology on the F-117 was designed to confuse rather than hide, the law of averages is bound to dictate that eventually one will be lost. Stealth doesnt make an aircraft invisible to radar, mearely give the aircraft a smaller RCS, the B-2RCS is roughly that of a small bird, so operators ignore it or dont notice it and sometimes the radar computer filters it out as noise. i was just thinking, i remember hearing a story, weather its tru or not i dont know. the F-117 that was shot down, im sure i remember hearing something about the ground crew forgetting to remove the metallic panels they use on normal peace time flichts to allow them to be tracked by radar. not impossible for the americans to do something like that im sure!

As for the debate, the US would win battle of the airforces hands down. while the russians have some very effective equipment, the americans, have a much larger and diverse array of very effective equipment. Their aircraft, whilst not as numerous in all categories, though much more closely matched after the USSR became russia and lost aircraft to the new republics, the American aircraft are well maintained and updated. Most of the russian aircraft are not airworthy and their pilots are struggling to get 10 hours a month in the air cos the air force cant afford Fuel!

No stealth on Russian airplanes?? haha u think thats funny? Read about the SU-37 and the Berkut

If the Russian airforce was only made up of SU-37s and the latest MIGs, esp. MIG-31(strongest radar in the world), then the U.S. would be in for a llloooonnnggg fight. Either way lets hope that never happens

And TheNeo, to answer ur question that u asked Russian earlier.. The average Russian fights when his country is threatened, for both cultural and historical reasons, because mainly all Russians are proud of their homeland. And it is simply in our blood (WWI, WWII, etc.) After your country loses 20,000,000 people due to Nazis and a #y leader(Stalin), and when u talk to an American who has the guts to say that USA won WWII, u wanna mass murder just about everyone. Its just in the blood. We dont like to start wars, we dont want to fight or have world domination or none of that crap. When we are threatened or our history is ridiculed we are simply willing to fight. Whew (takes deep breath) hope i covered everything

Russia will priveal as our miltary equipment is far superior to the armerican fa-22 raptors, our su-37 terminators are most advanded weopary in the world. The multi-role su-37 terminator bested all armerican figters as well as british typhoon in simulation at miltary tactics academy in Dmitrov, if the world fell into another cold war america will fall and mother russia will take back whats hers the world hal pootin!!!

our su-37 terminators are most advanded weopary in the world. The multi-role su-37 terminator bested all armerican figters as well as british typhoon in simulation at miltary tactics academy in Dmitrov

Now my friend, tell me how many SU-37 aircrafts does Russian Air Force possess? You don't know? I will tell you.

NONE

ZERO

Aircraft is not in production. Few prototypes have been built only.

It is not in service.

New Russian advanced fighter PAKFA will be ready by 2012. Will it be able to match F-22? Probably yes. But how many aircratfs will be put in service?



50 F-22 Raptors had been delivered to the US Air Force ALREADY.

And it is anticipated that F-22 fleet to be around 180 aircraft.

But how do you motivate Russians to be the aggressor? You tell them that they will be rich if they win? Just wondered.

Man, what motivation are you talking about? If you are in the military and you receive an order, you have to submit. Right? This is the way how army works.

Soldiers are soldiers, they are executing their orders, they are fighting they are dying, they are getting paid for doing that.

Russian soldiers are not especially motivated when fighting on foreign territory.
BUT they begin to fight really hard, when enemy comes to the land of their own.
In 18th century they crushed Sweedes, in 19th French, in 20th Germans and those were finest armies of their times. Some people say, that they always win with help of General Frost. Though it is partially true, main reason is their courage and sacriface when the time to protect their motherland is coming .

Well as us Brits usually beat everyone hands down.

US !!!

Oh god...here we go again. I didnt want to get into this...

Originally posted by Papz


No stealth on Russian airplanes?? haha u think thats funny? Read about the SU-37 and the Berkut

If the Russian airforce was only made up of SU-37s and the latest MIGs, esp. MIG-31(strongest radar in the world), then the U.S. would be in for a llloooonnnggg fight.

I'll start with stealth. No stealth on russian aircraft? Incorrect. Stealth 2 generations ahead on American aircraft? True. The stealth that russia uses currently means some RAM on migs and sukhois. It lowers RCS, true, but its not really stealth.

Dude, how about YOU read up on the Su-37 and Su-47...if you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that neither are in service.

www.air-attack.com...

Su-47 was a tech demonstrator for PAK-FA. It not in service, in prototype stage, or even ordered. Would it match the F-22 if it was? Who knows. It wasnt even weaponized.

www.fas.org...

Su-37 was a failed attempt to improve the flanker further. Two were made. Both were converted back in to Su-35s when even the russian government realized how little thier usefulness was. It wasnt worth a new production line. Would it beat an american fighter in BVR? NO. Not in any way. Avionics and AIM-120D DOMINATE todays BVR. Would it beat an american fighter in a dogfight? Many people think that because the SU-37/35 can spam all over and do fancy backflips, it wins EVERY TEH DOGFIITE. Here is the problem children, it lack engine power. Do that backflip in a dogfight and you will stall...all of the Su-whatevers amazing maneuvers are at a dead stop in mid air. Try that in a dogfight, and some F-15 will put two sidewinders in your fuselage to take home to putin. Most dogfights happen at 3000-400 knots. And if both aircraft can only pull 9.5G turns (I assume you know what a G is) the flankers maneuverability is not only HEAVILY dulled, but the thrust/weight of the F-15/F-16/F-22 gives it the edge.

MiG-31 is IMHO a bit of a useless airframe...all its good for, is getting up to speed, firing big arse missiles, and running away. Feel free to try that against stealth...while ground radars probably can detect (maybe not track) stealth, even the MiG-31s amazing radar probably cant. Put a few F-22s on the outer perimeter of the MiGs target...missile magnet.

Alright, next stupid post.

Originally posted by shevchenco
Russia will priveal as our miltary equipment is far superior to the armerican fa-22 raptors, our su-37 terminators are most advanded weopary in the world. The multi-role su-37 terminator bested all armerican figters as well as british typhoon in simulation at miltary tactics academy in Dmitrov, if the world fell into another cold war america will fall and mother russia will take back whats hers the world hal pootin!!!

Usually I dont freak out at people because some aspect of their post is correct...but I think I can freely do it here, because I cant see any shred of anything that remotely resembles accuracy. Ill take apart every sentence.

"Russia will pravail as our military equipment is far superior to American F-22s, our Su-37s are the most advanced weaponry in the world..."

YOU DONT HAVE ANY. EVEN IF YOU DID, THEY LACK the engine power to best the F-22 in every single area, the F-22 has comperable weapons, superior avionics, flight characteristics, BVR, WVR, Post stall, radar, stealth, JHMCS...every aspect of it is better than the Su-37 except it cant stall itself, do a summersault, spam everywhere, and create dumb nationalists every time it does. Do it in a dogfight...if a russian pilot and an american pilot are in a dogfight...and the russian guy tries to slow down to under 50 knots, do a summersault, and shoots the american down, i will personally go running through the streets of chicago with a big arse red star tatooed on me. If slowed down, the only place it can pull its maneuver spam, an american aircraft WILL FLY CIRCLES around it.

"The multi-role su-37 terminator bested all armerican figters as well as british typhoon in simulation at miltary tactics academy in Dmitrov"

DERA disagrees. In another simulation, the F-22 bested the Su with ease, 10:1 to be precise.

en.wikipedia.org...

"if the world fell into another cold war america will fall and mother russia will take back whats hers the world hal pootin!!!"

AAAAHHHHHH MOTHERLAND!!1!!111!!1 Go away. You are just some insecure nationalistic 12 year old kid in russia who hates americans. "America would fall" ok little boy. Whatever helps you sleep at night. By the way, its Putin not Pootin. Pootin is what floates around in the toiled bowl after taco bell. Or are you speaking russian?

Now on to the main topic.

Who would win? If we are talking air superiority fighters, I believe its the Raptors that give the US the edge. I look at the Flanker and the Eagle and I think they are pretty equal...Same goes for the F-16/MiG-29. I remember that when US F-16s trained against german MiG-29s, they were evenly matched. America does have numbers on its side...and not just numbers I.E. five hundred MiG-17s... I mean hundreds of F-15s and upwards of a thousand F-16s. Trouble is, that right now, the F-22 DOES best all of them, on either side. The F-22 can take 4 F-15s at once...the aircraft that has shot down at least 9 MiG-29s without a single loss...along with another 95 aircraft, mostly russian I will add. This may change with PAK-FA in a decade or so, we will see.

Add to that the US navy...they really are the best pilots the US has...a super hornet was the only aircraft to take down the raptor in RED FLAG. I belive there was a thread about it in the Advanced Aircraft forum a while back, with a picture if anyone wants to search it.

Now, if we are talking whose technology is better, I still go with the Americans. Our bomber fleet is huge, plus the B-2s (never shot down, to the kid who said that 2 were shot down...link me please.) The A-10 bests the Su-25 with ease, helicopters are pretty equal. But what really gives the US the lead here is the giant fleet of tankers and AWACS that give the Americans the definite edge.

Feel free to correct anything above.

Good day.

-BW23

Since arguments seem to be lost quite a bit during ATS wars of any-kind, I'll reitorate what the above posters said in that:

a. The planes you mentioned have never gone into literal production, and have either been technological testbeds or prototypes.

b. No B-2 has ever been shot down, only a single F-117 which was blamed on pure luck given the circumstances.

c. "If the Russian airforce was only made up of SU-37s and the latest MIGs, esp. MIG-31(strongest radar in the world), then the U.S. would be in for a llloooonnnggg fight."
On that same note, if the USAF had every fighter replaced with an F-22, and all bombers being the B-2, then they'd dominate -- quite literally. Further more, an airforce completely devoid of tankers, or AWACS, or any other support aircraft? Proof-read your posts first!

d."The multi-role su-37 terminator bested all armerican figters as well as british typhoon in simulation at miltary tactics academy in Dmitrov"
In a country known for its propaganda, I'd do a bit for research than relying on a bloody research academy' test.

e. Lastly, as also stated, this is an aircraft discussion. Not all-out war discussion. Certainly not a 'tank' discussion -- Stay with the topic, please.

My own personal views? The USAF would win. All-though, given the circumstances, this entire topic is unfair. Russia is undertrained, underfunded, and while making admirable repairs to their once-decaying military, are still behind modern military forces. [In general.]
Relying on [at the time, excellent] equipment from two decades ago, and hardly-worthwhile training will give you some time, and a bit of fear-factor, but by no means the ability to win.



And TheNeo, to answer ur question that u asked Russian earlier.. The average Russian fights when his country is threatened, for both cultural and historical reasons, because mainly all Russians are proud of their homeland. And it is simply in our blood (WWI, WWII, etc.) After your country loses 20,000,000 people due to Nazis and a #y leader(Stalin), and when u talk to an American who has the guts to say that USA won WWII, u wanna mass murder just about everyone. Its just in the blood. We dont like to start wars, we dont want to fight or have world domination or none of that crap. When we are threatened or our history is ridiculed we are simply willing to fight. Whew (takes deep breath) hope i covered everything

No one could ever answer this question correctly. Who would win?? Who knows. I have read nothing but opinions in the above posts. F-22 pilots would beat SU's and vise versa. But the truth is that there is no way to know for sure. Most of you throw out numbers and that American pilots are better trained. But the truth is that no one can train you enough. I think that a good pilot on a crappy fighter either a Sukhoi or a Raptor (I say crappy because I wont take sides on such a stupid debate) can beat a bad pilot. As simple as that.

One thing is for sure the Russians should not be underestimated. They are a force to be weary of. Compare there history to ours and youd say that we are more advanced. But how many years did it take the Soviet Union to go from a nation of farmers to and industrialized society? Find the answer and compare that to ours and youd be surprised. If a nation of people can do something like this they should not be taken lightly.

At last, I wonder if God is watching with a smile on his face. Because I think that if most of you just read most of these posts closely, you'd realize that we're fighting over who has the fastest piece of metal strapped to a rocket on the planet. The tech on Su, Raptors, Migs is pretty advanced, and yet when they fly they have to be throwing fire out their ass. Id say that our technology is pretty primitive. We should be looking to other sources of power before we start a debate on who has the better tin can flying around.

If you're going into a fight, which pilot would you rather have on your side, the USAF pilot that gets several hundred flight hours a year, including intense ACM training, or the Russian pilot that gets less than 50 hours a year, mostly flying from point A to point B?

You can say that it's all opinion, but it's opinion based on known facts, and that's that USAF pilots are much better trained and equipped than Russian pilots right now. A GROUND fight is another story, and would be a long intense fight, but the AIR BATTLE, based just on training, would almost definitely go in favor of the USAF.

Opinions none the less. You could train a pilot year round and that still would not guarantee that he would get the job done. A pilot does not train under the pressure real combat brings. In the end once you're up there its all about luck, luck that the computer controlling youre plane does'nt go to hell, luck that you dont have a freak accident without ever entering combat, luck that the pilot youre fighting does not shoot you down because you were confident that he was undertrained. Because these machines are created by man they are extremely flawed. The more tech put into them the more flawed they are because you will always have the fear of losing one so expensive.