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Religion...........it blinds the world.

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posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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An Open Challenge to Sun Matrix

Sun Matrix, I am calling you out on your claims

please, prove to me and all the other posters on ATS, BTS, and PTS that all non-abrahamic religion comes from babylon

i'm sick of you not proving these claims and telling us that we should research it ourselves

i want you to bring evidence to this board to prove your argument

i'm giving you a whole thread to do so


Are you expecting me to provide a few links and clear your blindness? I can't clear your blindness, only you can. You spend your time seeking why God isn't instead of why God is. Therefore you can't see that he is. The man that seeks God will find God. The man that seeks why he isn't certainly isn't going to find Him.

Basically what you are asking me to do is unravel what has been laid in place for thousands of years by the deceiver. Yes, I see..........and then you say "show the blind man who is not seeking to see" Show the blind man who is deceived by those in power since the time after the flood.

And then the blind man says.........."there was no flood"..........as he discards all the evidence found in ancient cultures. Show me the flood.

My experience says that I can bring absolute proof of something and if the man is blind he still can't see. There is always a reason that the facts won't convince him. Now the blind man says prove to me something that happened thousands of years ago that has been PURPOSELY covered up to deceive him. Pretty much an impossible task given the blindness of man.

We have people running around all over the world claiming that the Holocaust did not happen. We can find plenty of them on this board. And yet we have absolute proof of eyewitnesses that are still alive today. We have films of the the occurance. We have historical documents and we have war criminals and we have names of those killed and burial sites ...........and..........................STILL WE HEAR THE SAME BS.........there was no Holocaust. If the blind man does not seek to see, how can he see, no matter how many facts that you bring forward HOW CAN THE BLIND MAN SEE?

If the blind man wanted to see he would notice there are problems with the historical timeline. This is not by accident. This is intentional. It is used to cover the true origins of civilization. When you study ancient history you will come across these inconsistenties. The blind man follows the trail that is left to confuse him, and it does.

The false religions come from Babylon. Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz were real people that once lived on the earth. This is the origin of these false religions that cover the earth. Nimrod is Zoroaster the originator of Zoroastrianism. Hinduism comes from Zoroastrianism...............and yes you will find pleny of information to cover the truth. And yet there is information to show the truth also. If you really want the truth you can find it.

I really have no interest in wasting my time digging up facts to prove this point as no matter how many facts I bring, I know it is a waste of time.....UNLESS THE BLIND MAN WANTS TO SEE. He must seek to find the truth, I can't do it for him. That said..........I will lead the horse to water.

Here's a start on what you asked............feel free to disprove it.



Hinduism and Zoroastrianism are the two of the oldest surviving religions and derive from a common origin.

Common origin
Main article: Proto-Indo-Iranian religion
Both Zoroastrianism and Vedic religion are of Indo-Iranian origin, that is, are developments of cultures that have common roots. The oldest sacred texts of both religions have a similar grammar, structure and style, and indeed share words and phrases. The language of the Gathas (the oldest hymns of the Zoroastrian collection of texts known as the Avesta) and the language of the RigVeda are similar to the point that many translations of Gathic Avestan were made by scholars of Vedic Sanskrit.
en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 02:40 PM
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You're great Sun, I do like your approach to these things. Discussing stuff so readily becomes like p1ssing in the rain.

Comparing holocaust denial to denial of a mythical world-wide flood is great stuff.



Edn

posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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A little off-topic (although I'm not entirely sure what the topic is about) to touch on your holocaust comment, the people who disagree about the holocaust do not deny it happened but only the scale of it and the politics (i.e. Israel and the fact that everyone think the holocaust was to exterminate the Jews). Anyone who says it didn't happen are simply misinformed or trying to get attention.



posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
You're great Sun, I do like your approach to these things. Discussing stuff so readily becomes like p1ssing in the rain.

Comparing holocaust denial to denial of a mythical world-wide flood is great stuff.



The point being even with all the facts available the blind man will not see........... how can he then see what has been hidden from him thousands of years ago and expertly covered up?

Who do you think teaches evolution in school? Do you think it is science that can be proved? Please...........




posted on Dec, 31 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The point being even with all the facts available the blind man will not see........... how can he then see what has been hidden from him thousands of years ago and expertly covered up?


If we are talking about a world-wide flood you have no facts.


Who do you think teaches evolution in school?


Teachers. But it is professional academic scientists who have produced the mulititude of real-world evidence to support it.


Do you think it is science that can be proved? Please...........



In science we generally cannot prove things in the ways mathematical theories are proven. We tend to aim to falsify and gather supporting evidence in that fashion gradually 'proving' the theory to be valid.

At this point, no evidence falsifies ToE. The world-wide flood has been falsified.

But I digress, I'll let you provide support for whatever it is you are aiming to show. I've got my pop-corn...



[edit on 31-12-2006 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 12:14 AM
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i read the first line of your original post, sun, and all i see is the same gib
paraphrased as "you can only find it yourself"

then there is the implication that those that don't agree with you are blind

why not just TRY to prove your argument?



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 02:00 AM
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Hmm.
An interesting thread, but in the end it is pretty obsolete.
Why? Babylon was a localized area and Earth is a pretty big place. Babylon was a long time ago. There have been tens of thousands of religions of throughout history. Not all of them (non-abrahamic) have been derived from Babylon. Religion is just one of the enigmas that is being human.

List a few non-abrahamic religions not derived from Babylon?

Discordanism. The belief of reality through chaos.
Animism. The belief that humans are guided by the spirits of animals and even plants.
Raëlism. The belief that all life on Earth was created by an alien race, with no spiritual side to the religion.
Entheogenic religions. The belief of magic or connection using drugs and mind-altering substances.
Omnism. The belief of existance through connection.
Scientology. The belief that humans are guided by the spirits of aliens.
Most Cults. Enough said.







Omnism is a non-abrahamic religion. The only connection it holds with Babylon is that



posted on Jan, 1 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix


An Open Challenge to Sun Matrix

Sun Matrix, I am calling you out on your claims

please, prove to me and all the other posters on ATS, BTS, and PTS that all non-abrahamic religion comes from babylon

i'm sick of you not proving these claims and telling us that we should research it ourselves

i want you to bring evidence to this board to prove your argument

i'm giving you a whole thread to do so


Are you expecting me to provide a few links and clear your blindness?


Perhaps who you are speaking to is blind. But, since the topic of blindness has been brought up, and even though your thread begins by quoting an entire introductory post of another thread, why did you open a new thread about the same subject that existed here??? Did you not see the thread you quoted as being worthy enough to reply in??? :

The EXACT same subject matter being discussed here, was first introduced as a thread's subject matter here:

www.belowtopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 2 2007 @ 02:36 AM
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Esoteric....

This thread isn't only a 'copy' of another thread. The thread that you are referring is also a 'copy' thread!

Yeah. I don't see why this is happening either.

Who cares if you bump the thread guys. It's better than starting a new one with the exact same debate, ideas and intentions, let alone the same members.




posted on Jan, 3 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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sun, all this time you've had and all you've put forth is a quote from a broken link and a comparison to holocaust denial

where is the evidence that's supposedly so easy to find?



posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 08:48 AM
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Hey Sun Matrix here is an article that might help open peoples' eyes. It was originally called "Satan's Matrix" but I changed it recently to not come across so harsh.

The Second Commandment & Religious Symbolism




The Second Commandment & Religious Symbolism



IN THE LIKENESS OF THE HEAVENS

Exodus 20: 4

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in HEAVEN ABOVE, or that is in the EARTH BENEATH, or that is in the WATER UNDER THE EARTH;


Now think for a moment about the symbols of the three major religons. We will cover Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. As you probably already know, Judaism uses a star as their symbol. Please take a moment to read what scripture says about the star that the Hebrews took on.

Acts 7:37-43

This is that Moses...to whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and IN THEIR HEARTS TURNED BACK AGAIN INTO EGYPT... And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifices unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the HOST OF HEAVEN: as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to Me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR OF YOUR GOD REMPHAN, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Amos 5:26-27

But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord...

As you can see the scriptures clearly show that God turned and gave the House of Israel up to worship the Host of Heaven and they took on a star of a false god. This false god has many names but is most commonly known as Saturn. The Jews also took on a false Sabbath which is of course Saturday or Saturn's Day. The Jewish symbol is a six pointed star with six triangles and six inner sides. This is a symbol that the Jewish people borrowed from the occult and they call it the Star of David. Hitler forced all the Jews to wear the symbol during the Holocoust. If they wanted to buy or sell they had to have this symbol on them. This is most likely the same symbol that the Antichrist will use when he comes like Christ. He will most likely tell everyone that it is his star and it is, but it is not the star of David but rather the star of Saturn. This symbol is on Israel's national flag today, an Israel who has turned it's back on God and worships Satan. It is used today by the worldly authority including our own police officers who proudly display the 666 star in the center of their hat and on badges placed over their heart as well as on their vehicals. This or a similar symbol will be given to all who follow the antichrist because he will give all who follow him authority on the earth.

Now Islam took the moon and Venus for the symbols of their religion. They worship on Friday which comes from the name of a moon goddess and is in fact the day that Venus rises.

Now think for a moment on what the Christian symbol is. Many would first think that it is not a symbol of a heavenly body. But a little bit of research would prove otherwise. Different variations of the cross were used long before Christianity in Babylon, Egypt and Rome. The cross represents the Sun and it's four seasons. That is right and Christians worship on the day of the Sun or Sunday. Christmas is in fact the day that the sun starts it's cycle over again after reaching it's lowest point. Christ was never born on Christmas for the shephards would not be out in the field in the dead of winter. Even our Christian art includes images of the Sun behind the heads of Christ and his disciples. So God has turned Christianity over to worship the host of heaven just as He did to the Jews and to the Muslims because, Christians worship Christ the Son, as God. When He was a perfect man and the Word of God made flesh.



THE TOWER OF BABEL AND ALL FALSE RELIGION

Now according to legend, the tower of Babel had seven planetary bodies symbolized on top. The ancients would worship all seven bodies and that is where our seven day week comes from. Think about it each day represents a different heavenly body. So the three major religions are in a way worshipping four of the seven heavenly bodies that were symbolized on top of the tower of Babel. Judaism - Saturn, Islam - Venus & the Moon, and Christianity - The Sun. Now think about it this way, if the three major religions would unite and use all of their symbols on the top of one temple then you would have a modern day tower of Babel. The tower of Babel was the begining of all false religon. Nimrod was the leader of the world at this time. Nimrod, his wife and his son were all worshipped as gods. This is where all false religion originated. Now the pieces are falling together and we are starting to see this matrix of Satan's deception.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix



And then the blind man says.........."there was no flood"..........as he discards all the evidence found in ancient cultures. Show me the flood.
HOW CAN THE BLIND MAN SEE?


The false religions come from Babylon. Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz were real people that once lived on the earth. This is the origin of these false religions that cover the earth. Nimrod is Zoroaster the originator of Zoroastrianism. Hinduism comes from Zoroastrianism...............and yes you will find pleny of information to cover the truth. And yet there is information to show the truth also. If you really want the truth you can find it.

Here's a start on what you asked............feel free to disprove it.


Hinduism and Zoroastrianism are the two of the oldest surviving religions and derive from a common origin.

Common origin
Main article: Proto-Indo-Iranian religion
Both Zoroastrianism and Vedic religion are of Indo-Iranian origin.



Hello sun matrix,

Still banging on about Babylon? I suppose every blind chicken deserves a piece of corn!
Argheologists have discovered what seems to be remains of the world's earliest religious worship site in the remote Ngamiland region of Botswana. Here, people performed advanced rituals, worshipping the python some 70,000 years ago. The sensational discovery strengthens Africa's position as the cradle of modern man.

Dravidianism ( which preceeded Hinduism) was estimated to have been practised around 6000 to 3000BCE and as such predates Sumerian, Egyptian and Babylonian cultures. Hinduism has the oldest recorded roots in Dravidianism.

FLOOD...

Some of the earliest written records of an advanced civilization are those of the Sumerian civilization in Mesopotamia. Its first dynasty, according to Sumerian King-Lists, dates to about 3,350 B.C. Prof. Waddell has done exhaustive research on Sumerian chronicles, seals, King-Lists, and other records which show a continuous, ongoing civilization from 3,350 B.C. well through the period of the Flood. In fact, Mesopotamia was undergoing great prosperity and expansion during the period of the Flood under the well-known ruler, Sargon The Great (2,300 B.C.). Further growth and expansion continued under his grandson, Naram-Sin (2,250 B.C.). By the time of Abraham (1,930 B.C.), Mesopotamia was heavily populated and a thriving centre of civilization and culture. These historical facts could never have occurred if its entire civilization had been obliterated by a flood.

Of all ancient civilizations, that of Egypt is the most familiar. Egypt's dynastic history started with the uniting of upper and lower Egypt by King Menes about 3,100 B.C. The period of Egyptian history known as the "Old Kingdom," extended from 2,800 to 2,175 B.C., which covered the third through the tenth dynasties. There was no record of a sudden and complete interruption within this great epoch of Egyptian history by a great deluge. Further, the Step Pyramid, the Great Pyramid, the Sphinx and other Egyptian monuments that were built prior to the Flood would surely have been destroyed by the magnitude of the flood described by creationists.

www.ensignmessage.com...

Abraham is Brahma (A-Brahma) who just happens to have a consort and sister named Saraisvati­ which is amazingly similar to the name of the Biblical Abraham’s wife - Sarai. Indeed Abraham is said to have learned his trade in Ur (the ‘Ur of the Chaldees’ in the Bible ­ said to be in ancient Sumer), which is very close to the Persian border ­ being en-route to India.

It is also a fact that the name of Brahma spread throughout this entire area ­ so much so, that the Persians even adopted him as one of their deities. So, the very area where Abraham is said to have learned his priestly trade is the very area that the Indian Brahma was being spread and worshipped.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 04:23 PM
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I think you might find that the Sumerian's have the monopoly on the origins of the religions with Babylon adding to an already growing religious belief system.



G



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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I think what sun said was well wrote. The fact is you cannot show and give a man the first steps in finding God if the man is blind and not willing to say I may believe. Do not throw pearls to the swain. Telling someone who wont believe wont help left the blindness from his eyes.

You want proof. Throw the nonbelief in your heart and mind away. And give a little faith in God that he might or is alive and pray. Pray and Pray. For you believers you know what I am talking about cuz I am not the only one on my own and found God cuz he beat me up.

God is out there. Judgement day is around. Time to gameable your life.



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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Why is the OP starting a new thread to reply to a post in another thread seemingly dedicated to this discussion? Is the OP just trying to stock up on precious ATS points? I'm confused.



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by melatonin
At this point, no evidence falsifies ToE. The world-wide flood has been falsified.


You are sounding hypocritical here. You say theres no evidence for the Flood so its falsified?

Theres no evidence for the Big Bang theory, no proof, tangible, without-a-doubt scientific proof. Is that falsified?

I'm skeptical of the Big Bang being an uncontrolled, natural occurence where a singularity of matter magically appears in a vacuum and explodes, sending everything everywhere @bizillions of miles per hour, expanding matter due to nucleogenesis and cooling plasma and all that crap. I feel like it is not provable 100%.

You feel the Flood isn't provable, but that doesnt mean its falsified. You cant do that unless you were immortal, had seen the past, and knew it never happened from experience. They have found plenty of evidence, 'they' being scientists, that the Deluge happened.

The clearest evidence on Earth as we speak is the Black Sea. Please, if you're skeptical of the Flood, look up the Black Sea on Wiki. Read that. Read about how only the top layer of water is habitable, because the rest of it, about 100 feet (or was that meters?) below this top layer of 'good water', is a type of water that can't be lived in. Oxygen problem, I think it was. Plus, we're talking about a LOOOOONG time ago, right after the last ice age? doesnt ice turn to water? hmm..

The Black Sea is MIXED! The top layer is of a different structure, the water, than the rest of the Sea underneath. This points heavily to the Black Sea once being a 'lake' and having the Mediterranian 'flood' over into it, creating what we now call the Bosphorus, a waterway inbetween Asia Minor and Macedonia, leading into the Black Sea. There is evidence to support this scientifically. Heck, just the mixture of water in itself is evidence, how would you explain that happening? Considering it's make-up is unique among the Earth's bodies of water. Also, verily I say unto thee, Asia and Europe were once connected. Greece and Turkey were once land-border neighbors (I know they are bordering today because of Turkey's piece of land on the European continent) and the Black Sea had no relationship with the Mediterranian or the Aegean. You can see the multitude of islands all throughout the Aegean, obviously the water used to be much, much lower, exposing the very bottom of the Aegean in it's shallowest parts, thereby connecting the lands.

Why else would little mountain tops and the highest ground, excuse me, I mean why else would islands be in such a large amount, and of such varying sizes? Some being utterly tiny, like not even listed on the maps, ones so tiny that they have no official name. I swear that, once upon a time, those lands were one, and were split permanently by the Deluge. It explains the Black Sea's unusual make up, it explains the Bosporus' strange and unnatural looking position and existence, it explains the unusually high number of islands in the Aegean nearby, it points in multiple ways all to the same direction: Flood.

And then of course you have all the local cultures of the Earth all saying there was a Flood, in their mythos. Why would all cultures, seperate from each other, no communication, come up w/the same damn story? All of them? There was an oral tradition passed down from before the creation of WRITTEN WORD, this is the age of the Deluge. Thats why all cultures have a version of it, yet differing from the next version.

Theres more to support it than just about any other Old Testament claim..

[edit on 4/15/2007 by runetang]

Wikipedia: Deluge

Wkipedia: The Black Sea



The Black Sea is the world’s largest meromictic basin where the deep waters do not mix with the upper layers of water that get oxygen from the atmosphere. As a result, over 90% of the deeper Black Sea volume is anoxic water that lacks oxygen. The current hydrochemical configuration is primarily controlled by basin topography and fluvial inputs, which result in a strongly stratified vertical structure and a positive water balance. The upper layers are generally cooler, less dense and less salty than the deeper waters, as they are fed by large fluvial systems, whereas the deep waters originate from the warm, salty waters of the Mediterranean. This influx of dense water from Mediterranean is balanced by an outflow of fresher Black Sea surface-water into the Marmara Sea, maintaining the stratification and salinity levels.


[edit on 4/15/2007 by runetang]



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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Christians should visit talkOrigins.org to see why they are wrong. It is pointless to debate the issue. Christians only seek debate because it validates their false views.



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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Columbus, a non christian made this thread.

and the thread is about religion being negative, or outright wrong/untrue etc.

so I say unto you, who here was trying to debate first? I dont think it was christians.

so if a non christian has a view, its automatically correct, and if a christian has a view, its automatically wrong, is that how you feel, based on your words?

thats a very close minded, almost ignorant way to look at things.

i accept that i may be wrong unless i have absolute proof regarding anything, religion or non, that i may be talking about.

you know, i'll say that theres alot of 'twisted chrstians' out there, and these are the ones most predominant in the United States, these are the outspoken ones.

the deceiver uses them as a hopeless submitting group of people who think they're worshiping properly and think what they believe is all true, but its not, and they aren't worshiping properly. for example, in christianity, so many direct their prayers to Jesus and not God. This is wrong. Then they also worship the image of the Crucifix, and Jesus dead or dying on it. This is an idol, and furthermore, its worship of the flesh.

Jesus would be *PISSED* if he were walking the streets today. These churches are so bass-ackwards, and these mosques are too. It's a direct insult to Jesus to idolize him, its a direct insult to Jesus to direct your worship to him instead of his Father. It's a direct insult to Jesus to make an image of his dying or dead flesh on a Crucifix; it's an even bigger one to put it at the very front of every congregation, the focal point. And then to bow before this idol? And also, the Eucharist .. to eat the flesh and drink the blood? The last supper was the last supper, Jesus never said "continue on forever eating dinner like we are eating dinner today, so say wine is my blood and bread is my flesh every rime you eat it". That was a man-made, man-idea..

Religion is man-made, and its flawed by design because of that.

I dont know about you but, I'm not going to let a warped rotor stop me from driving the car, if you can understand my parable.



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by runetang
so if a non christian has a view, its automatically correct, and if a christian has a view, its automatically wrong, is that how you feel, based on your words?

I used to get involved in debates with Christians all the time on all kinds of subjects. The problem is Christians offer nothing to support their views. They constantly reintroduce already disproven claims to keep debate alive indefinitely over matters that are already closed.

In reality, all Christian views have already conclusively been proven false through excessive testing exactly because Christians insist on others putting their beliefs to the test over and over again because they refuse to do it themselves.

Every time a new fossil comes out it is an intermediate fossil so we have to have the debate over whether there are intermediate fossils again. It is actually disgusting.

Don't debate closed issues, just point to the conclusions. No evidence is going to appear that suddenly supports Christian claims because Christians don't do science.


i accept that i may be wrong unless i have absolute proof regarding anything, religion or non, that i may be talking about.

There is no absolute proof of anything. There are only statistical degrees of certainty. Religious claims offer nothing to weigh statistically.


I dont know about you but, I'm not going to let a warped rotor stop me from driving the car, if you can understand my parable.

WiseSheep claims no one understands how brakes work. You pray to God and he comes down and stops the car if he feels like it. Those are some plenty reliable brakes even if their not warped!



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:16 AM
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While I know as much about the criminal history of the church and its zealous promoters, whether knights, priests, or soldiers, I also give due note to the many good things people have done in the spirit of love, which Jesus' words conveyed to them. Jesus taught love. Love is good. But, religion is a very convenient, effective, and popular means by which megalomaniacs can pursue their goals. They are not being like Jesus, but any of the Christians who are trying to, despite all the dogmatic propaganda they are being told, are a good force on this earth, and do good deeds for good reasons. Mother Teresa, Catholic Missionary Nun, and personal hero, is a good example.
Who here can criticize her?




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