Canadian Forces at risk of disappearing.

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posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 12:22 AM
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Link:
www.canoe.ca...

Excerpt:
"A thoughtful and well-researched new study of Canada's military predicts the imminent collapse of two-thirds of the Armed Forces and offers a stinging indictment of decades of government neglect.

OK, we've heard similar predictions and indictments in recent years, but none so well documented and devastatingly credible as this missile from researchers at Queen's University. Titled Canada Without Armed Forces?, it suggests the air force and either the army or navy will probably cease to exist around the end of this decade - unless Ottawa has a serious change of heart.

"The next government will be caught up in a cascading policy entanglement initiated by the rapid collapse of Canadian Forces' core assets and core capabilities," says the study. "This problem will inevitably disarm foreign policy as Canada repeatedly backs away from international commitments because it lacks adequate military forces." If Ottawa doesn't wake up and smell the coffee, "then the air force will likely disappear through the 2008-2013 time frame, and either the army or navy will disappear in the same time frame."

Since Canadians have for decades allowed successive federal governments to get away with substituting empty political rhetoric for foreign policy, while at the same time starving an increasingly bureaucratic military of personnel and equipment, you have to think that this scenario won't bother most people. What do we need a military for? We don't threaten anyone and we don't have any enemies.

Yet even if you don't support our involvement in any type of military action - and poll after poll suggests most Canadians don't - there are still the small matters of sovereignty and political independence. The same polls say most of us want to remain a sovereign nation and want Canada to have an independent voice in the world - particularly when it comes to relations with our powerful neighbour to the south.

But the contradiction, obviously, is that if you can't mount even a token demonstration of sovereignty, and you can't operate independent peacekeeping forces or contribute to international alliances - your sovereignty exists only on paper and you have no voice in the world. You are a bystander, and a vulnerable one at that - particularly sitting on an enormous chunk of global real estate and increasingly scarce natural resources.

"The real cost to Canadians," says the Queen's study, if we carry on as we are, "will be not simply a loss of international respect, but most likely the loss of control over most of Canada's territory and, ultimately, the forfeiting of national sovereignty... Canadians, it would appear, had best prepare themselves for these ominous apprehensions.".....


Hmmmm.....
Saw this comment:
"What do we need a military for? We don't threaten anyone and we don't have any enemies," and can't help but ask, Really? Then again, you do have the "world's policeman" next door---forgot to mention that one, eh?

And in regards to that "world's policeman" being next door, wasn't there a recent survey done where most Canadians thought the US was the biggest threat to world peace? If so, wouldn't it be prudent for Canada to have a strong military to "protect" itself from the US?

Despite my questions and forth coming, this article does raise some questions:

* Will Canada eventually merge with the US over time due to necessity?

* Is there a sense of reliance on the US for military "coverage" of Canada and her interests?

* Is the protection and projection of Canada being sacrificed for the nationwide health care system?

* Much like Belgium, Canada has no relevance outside of its borders. Does Canada really wish to have a strong military or is reliance on a "good" relations standing with the US cause many Canadians to think the US will always be there to help protect itself?

Just wondering aloud and hope to hear from some Canadians on this and their thoughts.
Thanks.


regards
seekerof




posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 12:34 AM
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so canada wants to disband it forces?


that would be a VERY stupid thing to do!



posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 12:35 AM
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Thanks seeker, saw this story earlier this week.

Well this is what Liberalism gets you!

Liberals have pretty much ran the federal government my entire life in this country except for about a ten year period. That is over three decades of their backward self serving treachory.

I'll give you an example that you will like. A prior conservative government of the 80s decided to replace Canada's antique (even then), squadron of choppers used by military and even our coast guard. They agreed to a deal with American firm to build a lot of them in Quebec and Ontario. It was a good deal for everyone as we could have picked up development work and even additional contracts for what were at the time the best choppers in the sky.

Anyways an election happened to fall shortly after the agreement and the opposition Liberals were elected. Out of spite and their childish innocence 'that nobody dislikes a Canadian so why do we need a military' they cancelled the contract. This cost our government then about $1 Billion in penalities for nothing to show for it. Meanwhile the dummy Canadian public believes what the government says when they claim that they will on their own timetable rectify the problem and make everything right. Well guess what? Here it is 15 years later and no new choppers!

We could not help in Iraq, even though we had good ships for mine clearing and ship interdiction duties etc., because our choppers are so old they were deemed unable to do the work without literally falling out of the sky. One did crash on deck of a frigate on a takeoff due to engine failure so they forced the ship to return to port.

So the combination of Liberal cowardice and just plain neglect has taken Canada from being a military power at end of WWII to being a laughing stock today. Lest you dismiss this as being no big deal, consider that Canada has a long history of military manufacturing and development that continues to this day. If I am not mistaken we are still in the top 10 of arms traders in the world. Something that many would not believe but look it up yourself!

Yep, we make money from war and we sell munitions around the world but we are Liberals and war is bad!



posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 02:50 AM
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Canadian Forces at risk of disappearing.

We have Forces? heh



posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Despite my questions and forth coming, this article does raise some questions:

* Will Canada eventually merge with the US over time due to necessity?

* Is there a sense of reliance on the US for military "coverage" of Canada and her interests?

* Is the protection and projection of Canada being sacrificed for the nationwide health care system?

* Much like Belgium, Canada has no relevance outside of its borders. Does Canada really wish to have a strong military or is reliance on a "good" relations standing with the US cause many Canadians to think the US will always be there to help protect itself?


As a non-Canadian, I of course have less at stake in this discussion, but it does make me think a little.

Isn't this how a single global government would start?

Neighboring countries work to join their governments together in some fashion, such as in the EU. Dissident states are "converted" through force where necessary. Then those larger multi-national conglomerates merge with others in an effort to share more and more resources. Eventually it goes further and further until there's nobody left to merge with.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.



posted on Dec, 7 2003 @ 10:06 AM
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I agree with TDH. Canada is probably going to fade into the US sooner or later. It'll be the first step towards teh NWO taking power. Think about this- a major revolt starts in Quebec due to outrageously crappy conservative government coming to power (I'm sorry, but I live in Ontario, and Mike Harris poisoned PC for me) The candian military, underequipped, undermanned, and outdated, is ratehr helpless. The government calls to the US for aid. The american troops come to canada, all over.

They don't leave.

Welcome to the UCAS- United Canadian and Amercian States. It's almost shadowrunnish in its simplicity.

DE



posted on Dec, 8 2003 @ 08:23 PM
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Who would notice?? besides the enemy can see those garish uniforms a mile away.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by DeusEx
I agree with TDH. Canada is probably going to fade into the US sooner or later. It'll be the first step towards teh NWO taking power. Think about this- a major revolt starts in Quebec due to outrageously crappy conservative government coming to power (I'm sorry, but I live in Ontario, and Mike Harris poisoned PC for me) The candian military, underequipped, undermanned, and outdated, is ratehr helpless. The government calls to the US for aid. The american troops come to canada, all over.

They don't leave.

Welcome to the UCAS- United Canadian and Amercian States. It's almost shadowrunnish in its simplicity.

DE


What does the fact that you are a left-winger have to do with this discussion?



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by THENEO

Originally posted by DeusEx
I agree with TDH. Canada is probably going to fade into the US sooner or later. It'll be the first step towards teh NWO taking power. Think about this- a major revolt starts in Quebec due to outrageously crappy conservative government coming to power (I'm sorry, but I live in Ontario, and Mike Harris poisoned PC for me) The candian military, underequipped, undermanned, and outdated, is ratehr helpless. The government calls to the US for aid. The american troops come to canada, all over.

They don't leave.

Welcome to the UCAS- United Canadian and Amercian States. It's almost shadowrunnish in its simplicity.

DE


What does the fact that you are a left-winger have to do with this discussion?


I prefer to think of myself as a no-winger. I just sit back and make fun of everyone. My political opinions don't matter in thsi thread- the scenario presented does.

DE



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 02:27 AM
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Does this even matter? I always wondered why Canada had a military anyway. The US is not gonna allow any major thing happen in Canada. They are too close to us, we will play big brother to Canada.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 02:32 AM
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excellent! Every single country in the world needs to start doing this so one day no wars can be faught. Could never happen I know, but hey you can dream.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 02:49 AM
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earthtone, it means that the one nation with guns will rule them all.....

Isn't "Canadian military" an oxymoron?

One time recently most of their military were stuck at sea (I think) because they hadn't paid their bill to the shipping contractors who were shipping them home from somewhere.

Still new Zealand can't laugh, we just bought these neato LAV3 personel carriers that will give us super duper mobility ... except they are too big for our planes so we can''t actually fly them anywhere.

Thats actually good as they would get dirty if we used them so they will look nice and clean on our military base at home. Maybe our soldiers overseas can get around on mountain bikes....



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
earthtone, it means that the one nation with guns will rule them all.....


Yes, this is the sad truth and I understand that. My vision of world peace is pretty much impossible, I know. However, I will not ever agree with weaponry, development of more deadlier weapons, and the military. Hired killers.



posted on Dec, 9 2003 @ 03:32 AM
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Yup, it seems that Canada is content to say to the US, "use our soil for your radars and missile defense, just don't let anything happen to us, k."

In all honesty, Canada doesn't really need an army for its own protection. We have our big brother for that. But it should have a military that it can send on peace keeping missions abroad and to have a presense in the global community.





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