The Phoenix Lights Case - In Depth

Originally posted by SwatMedic
Is there a way to verify that the reports of the first sighting ( the ones early in the night way before Snowbird) were called in as reports BEFORE the second snowbird lights appeared?

Can NUFORC verify a time?

The only reason I mention it is once a large sighting like the snowbird one is experienced by a large group, others then recollect earlier events and tie them into the former.

Its kind of like "There were these strange lights at 10:30 and gee, now I remember that at like 8:30 I saw something funny too."

If there is documented proof of reports coming in before the 10:30 then that adds a great deal more of credibility to the first sighting.

I also recall watching several shows regarding this case and on one there was a older couple (possibly the ones you mention who were former air force) that work or had worked in some sort of Psy-Ops program that had to do with reasearch in technology designed to trick the enemy into seeing things that werent really there. Kind of a "mirage projector" or something like that.

Do you recall seeing that program as well? If so, can you elaborate?

I can personally attest to this, as I was one of the hundreds of eye witnesses of the GIANT V-Shaped craft that flew silently over my head from north to south, prior to the second sighting of what most people are familiar with.

The V-shaped craft was so large, and flew directly over my head, that i could barely have covered it's diameter if I outstretched my arms. It also blackened out the sky as it flew above me, so I am positive it was solid.

I did NOT see the three trailing lights from the video, which is also the only video of the craft I know to be in existence. When I saw it, it was only the gigantic, silent triangle flying slowly from North to South.

Big daddy, do you know where I can find the video of the craft you saw?


Also, I find the stealth blimp idea pretty interesting: thestealthblimp.com...

How do we get some good debate going on this again? After that lame Jerusalem ufo hoax and some of the others, it would be nice to get into the details of this classic! I have seen most of the docs on PL and the first PL event (giant craft) is undoubtedly the most baffling:
1.) a recent Discovery Channel Docu (What really happened with the phoenix lights?) concluded it COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN AN ALIEN CRAFT since there is no way something that big could fly with our current technology!!!
2.) Former Gov. Fife Symington (in addition to hundreds of others) stated he saw it and believed it to be "otherworldly"!
3.) Stealth Blimp seems to have been ruled out or has it???
4.) Hologram projection - would this really be possible?? Could it block out the stars or be projected over such a large area? Would the government stoop to such experimentation over a populated area? Or would they stoop to it and deny it? I really want to know more about this aspect since many of the witnesses describe the object as "wavy" or translucent in some parts and also very perfect looking. The one guy with the powerful telescope said he saw planes! Could they have aided the projection? But what about "no sound"???

reply to post by haggisbingo




Unfortunately when something can't be debunked, people lose interest in discussing it.
Seems counter to the way it should be.... but that's how it is.

My understanding is the second set of lights were confirmed to be flares. In regards to the first set of lights lights are they are inconclusive.

The things which confuses me is a young man, whose name I can't recall said he viewed the objects through his Celestron Telescope. He said he saw the lights were a fleet of Cessnas flying in formation. So people viewing things with their naked eye vs somebody with a telescope I would side with the guy who has the magnified point of view

In the interest of fairness it has been said that Cessna's should not be in that airspace, also somebody stated it would be very hard it would be focus on a moving aircraft in the night sky. Now I am not an expert in regards to airspace regulations over Arizona Phoenix, nor do I understand the complexities of using a telescope, so this is something which needs to be confirmed with somebody who has knowledge.

There is no way they were flares. the hundreds of witnesses who saw it all said the same thing..but what i am more interested in is the first picture of what looks to be the biggest craft ever caught on tape. enourmous in size...at least some miles around and wide. they DO have the technology to bend light in manners that would appear completely invisible. if you look closely at the first pic of the lights over the mountain you can connect the dots in a fairly perfect circle. in my opinion, that is not several crafts...its one giant "mother ship" if you will.

as far as no noise coming from the ships. they use a silent sound wave to cover up and sounds coming from the craft..much like todays noise cancelling headphones. which only goes to show with im sure hundreds of thousands of dollars and 40+ years added on to it. the technology is VERY much real. if they were to disable the cover up of the sounds, it would make a very high pitched whining sound much like a science fiction story..the typical hovering with a high pitched whizzing as you can hear in the movie "mars attacks". im not comparing anything here but the noise is the most similar comparison i can tell you for no technology that the public has can make the noise i am trying to describe. there is only one recorded tape of the sounds these crafts make. and experts have studied it inside and out. they came to the conclusion that nothing can mimick the sounds the craft was making. the recording i am referring to goes along with the Billy Meier case over in switzerland...now that is the most interesting case i have ever heard and read up. kills all of these combined. and is also labeled as the BIGGEST UFO/contact case ever recorded.

I made a search on the net and collected some videos about this case, and they are now on my site. www.ufo-videos.dk...

It sounds like your describing this sound ? video.abovetopsecret.com...

I think it's much more likely that the lights seen at Phoenix were indeed flares, instead of a giant mothership. It would make sense for the military to drop them as a diversion, in light of the fact that a huge triangle craft was seen several times, going south. It worked perfectly, too - obviously, many folks were fooled into thinking the matter was closed, when the explanation of flares was given.

Nothing like some confusion to muck and muddy the waters - they got exactly what they were after.

Yeah the more i read about this sighting, it seems to draw attention to the flares and away from the other huge spaceship.

I'm almost certain the Phoenix Lights were produced by an alien spaceship attempting to 'raise our consciousness.' Although I can't prove it, considering how much attention the Phoenix Lights has gotten on this website, other websites, and many other publications....... *If I was an alien I would keep engaging in this type of activity because it's working*

Their control of light is the key. They can absorb, reflect, emit light at all frequencies/wavelengths. Throw in a control over quantum gravity and a big enough power source.... and you can explain the phoenix lights very easily.

The question is are there aliens out there in the universe that could invent such things...?

Well, we know that there are 100 billion or more stars in our galaxy alone. So put it this way: It would take a human being 3000 years of non-stop counting to count all the way to 100 billion!

So you tell me me if there are aliens out there? What does your heart and sound logic tell you?

Also, as to their intelligence levels and their ability to engineer such 'hypothetical devices'...... the universe is like 10 billion years older than the formation of our planet. That certainly gives any aliens originating from the center of our galaxy a huge head start on us.

So back to the Phoenix Lights.......... *cough cough* Uh... yeah definitely flares + gov't stealth blimp test flown over Phoenix..... *cough cough*

The lights over Phoenix proper were almost certainly flares. I can't even imagine how large a ship would have to be to have settled behind the mountains. Since we know the lights were behind the range, well.. c'mon, they are flares.

But the sightings prior and after are what are important. How many times have flares been dropped in sight of the city like that? Answer: never before, nor after this event. Only this one night. Then there is no doubt that there were sightings of a triangular shaped object hours before and after the flares over Phoenix were dropped. They dropped these flares in a triangle formation. So what would be odds on that be? How could anything think anything other than that these were dropped in an attempt to muddy the waters and create a cover story?

It is as good as disclosure from our military that they are well aware of what they are dealing with. They wouldn't have dropped these flares unless they had a good idea what was going on. The object, size, the direction it was headed. By virtue of their dropping these flares, they admitted their awareness of the event and object. I'm still quite amazed that more isn't made of this event - it's huge in many ways.

This is one of my favorite UFO cases because I remember when it happened. I don't live anywhere near Phoenix, but it was all over the news and I saw a similar formation of red lights when I was very young. The shape and size of the alleged craft also intrigues me.

It's my personal belief that the massive boomerang or angular-shaped craft that was witnessed earlier in the evening was indeed a large alien craft. The size that was described by the witnesses just doesn't sound like a practical military craft. Where would you possibly house a craft (and I'd assume there would be more than one, so let's make that plural) of that size? And why would you fly over populated areas? I suppose it could have been a psyche test to see how people would react to catching a glimpse of something that massive, but it just doesn't scream military craft to me.

I believe that a massive craft entered the area and perhaps the later event (that has been immortalized by that video of the lights hanging over the mountains to the east of the city were, in fact, flares that were deployed by the military, not as a training exercise, but more as a distraction to draw people's attention away from what was really flying around (and to later provide as a convenient cover story).

The only thing that bugs me is the only known video that supposedly shows the giant black craft that overflew the area earlier in the evening. That video does seem to support the story that it might have been planes or something similar flying in formation, as the lights don't line up perfectly as you'd expect with a solid craft.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Video of first event!




These stills are from the only video I found of the first event (i.e. it takes place prior to the 10pm sightings). Unfortunately, this was from a documentary on the Travel Channel, that I cannot seem to find a reference to (and it has since deleted from my DVR). I believe it was simply called “The Phoenix Lights” and aired in Feb. of this year. The stills are from screenshots I took then of the documentary. On the 2nd, I drew in the lines to see the dots in question (which were much more evident on the video, and moving fast across the sky, about jet speed, though difficult to tell as few references in the vid.) It’s an excellent special, if you ever see it, or it makes its way to YouTube.

here is the link....

dsc.discovery.com...

from tim printy's research....

At 8:30 p.m. the cockpit crew of an American West 757 airliner at 17,000 feet near Lake Pleasant, Ariz., noticed the lights off to their right and just above them.

"There's a UFO!" co-pilot John Middleton said kiddingly to pilot Larry Campbell. They queried the regional air-traffic-control center in Albuquerque, N.M. A controller radioed back that it was a formation of CT-144s flying at 19,000 feet.

Overhearing the exchange, someone claiming to be a pilot in the formation radioed Middleton. "We're Canadian Snowbirds flying Tutors," a man said...

But Capt. Michael Perry, squadron logistics officer for the Snowbirds, denied that any planes were in Arizona that month. "We don't travel ina V-shaped formation, and we don't cruise with landing lights on," he told Readers Digest. (Fitzgerald)

home.comcast.net...


excerpt from fitzgerald's article....

Were Canadian Pilots Pulling a Hoax? In the radio exchange between the America West airline crew and a pilot claiming to be a part of the lights formation, which I detailed in Part One, the mystery pilot said “we’re Canadian Snowbirds flying Tutors.”

From their Canadian Forces Base in Saskatchewan, the Snowbirds, officially known as the 431st Air Demonstration Squadron, tour the North American continent from April through October performing at air shows. They fly the CT114 Tutor, a two-seat trainer. It has a single whitish-colored landing light in its nose that can be pointed downward.

To get more information, I had numerous contacts with Major Jeff Young, Chief Flying Instructor for the Snowbirds. He told me the following: “we could find no record of our jets going cross country in that time frame. We can’t find anybody in our operation who could have been responsible for the lights that people saw.” Major Young did concede that Tutor planes could have been in Arizona that night flown by pilots other than the Snowbirds performance team.

That view was echoed by Captain Mike Perry, squadron logistics officer for the Snowbirds, who mentioned that out of 100 Tutor planes at their base, it was possible that “some may have been flown to Arizona by pilots from our training school, but it was not our performance team. We don’t travel in a v-shaped formation. We travel in threes and we never fly with our landing lights on.”

Major Young also gave me these characteristics of the Tutor aircraft. Its maximum cross country speed is 420 miles per hour, but it can travel as slow as 100 mph before the engine stalls. The fuel tank range is 450 miles, with another 100 miles available by using an extra tank.

Is it a coincidence that the lights over Arizona traveled the state from northwest to southeast at an average speed of about 400 miles per hour, within the Tutor cruising speed range? Is it a coincidence that the maximum fuel tank range for the Tutor is 550 miles and that distance covers a non-stop flight from the Area 51 military facility in Nevada to the Fort Huachcua military airfield in southern Arizona, south of Tucson? I’ll delve more into that angle in a moment.

One other thing worth noting: Snowbird isn’t just the name of the Canadian air team.

Operation Snowbird was the name given a military flare drop exercise conducted later that night, after the main sighting event, over the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range southwest of Phoenix.

Could the mysterious formation of planes have been communicating to the America West crew that they were from Canada and were participating in the Operation Snowbird exercise, if not on that night, then on subsequent nights? Rather than Tutors, might the Canadian military pilots have been flying A-10s, which was the primary aircraft being used in the Operation Snowbird exercise? Did the mystery pilots have their landing lights on and pointed down as a joke, a hoax, just to see what the American reaction would be? Or did they have another motive?

www.examiner.com...

link to part 1

eta....

from tim printy's research....

home.comcast.net...

confusion re radar data....

The lack of radar confirmation is the big question. Why didn't anyone identify these aircraft? In the "Great UFO Coverup", Tony Ortega has a few key points to add on this matter.

Air traffic controller Bill Grava was on duty on March 13 at Sky Harbor International Airport. He, too, saw the lights, but not until they were on the southern horizon, slowly disappearing behind South Mountain. The lights were so bright that he thought they might have been flares.

He confirms that the object or objects did not register on radar as they passed overhead, a fact seconded by Captain Stacey Cotton of Luke Air Force Base. But both admitted that that doesn't rule out the possibility of a group of airplanes. Cotton says that the radar used by air traffic controllers reads signals emitted by transponders in the airplanes themselves.

Normally, in a formation of seven planes, only the lead plane would turn on its transponder so air traffic controllers could track it. If the lead plane's transponder was turned off, however, the seven planes could have passed by without detection.

Grava says that depending on the planes' altitude, that may have been perfectly legal. (Ortega Great)

which is not true....

> Any large commercial airport will have both primary and secondary
> (transponder) radar. Planes which do not generate transponder
> signals will still show up as radar blips but without IDs next to
> them. There are are ways to filter out some of the stuff picked
> up by primary radar, such as things that are not moving (ground
> clutter) or already-identified aircraft, but full radar would
> always be turned back on in case an aircraft has a transponder
> malfunction, and particularly if it was suspected that an
> unauthorized aircraft without a transponder might be nearby.

ufoupdateslist.com...


printy's article further states....

The Air Traffic System is designed to identify aircraft who want to be identified. I have been aware of instances where the transponder of a medium sized aircraft failed and we flat never saw the guy on the digitized radar. It is very easy to elude FAA radar... (McIntosh)

which is equivalent to switching off the transponders to activate stealth mode...

finally.... does anybody have any additional info re formation flying?

due regard

If it's an alien craft, why would it have lights? Where did it go? Did it switch it's lights off and fly away?

I don't mean to mock but these are logical questions.

Originally posted by JFraser
If it's an alien craft, why would it have lights? Where did it go? Did it switch it's lights off and fly away?

I don't mean to mock but these are logical questions.

Why wouldn't they have lights? Why do the lights have to be solely for visibility - perhaps they are part of their propolsion system. Maybe they are something else we can't fathom. I still don't get why UFOs having lights seems so odd to people. In 500 years, if we are flying in space more, will none of our spacecraft have lights? I don't think that will be the case.

The sightings occured north prior to the flares over Phoenix, and after the flares, south of Phoenix. It was quite a long event. Where did it go afterwards? Yes, I imagine it flew off. Probably kept their lights on though.

For me, the 10pm event, for which we have assorted videos, etc. fits the flare explanation from Project Snowbird perfectly.

However, the reported 8pm event remains a mystery.

Why don't we have numerous videos of this occurrence, but we do of the 10pm one?

It seems the only thing to go on for the 8pm event is mostly witness testimony, and that close to another event, gets tricky to separate the two.

It is a fact there were earlier reported sightings. NUFORC has that evidence, etc., but its a shame there weren't more amateur photographers out then....